What to do next? Elopement and aggression with first grader

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:15:17 —For context I would give Lourie Center a call. That’s where I should have put my son. Just talk to the admissions director. Tell him about your sons behaviors. He can tell you what his school would do in situations where your child is being aggressive and eloping.

When you have the IEP meeting, what Lourie Center says they would do is what you want in the IEP. It could be that what Lourie does can be provided at another placement. But at least you would know how behaviors should be and can be handled.

Lourie was described on DCUM as "heavy handed on restraints and seclusion." https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/858113.page

If I were OP I would POUR money into getting a good behavioral plan at this school, and start on anti-anxiety meds to see if an SSRI works. OP mentioned she has anxiety so that's likely a big piece of what her child has as well.

15:17 again—lol, I started that thread. By the time we got to placement, Lourie wouldn’t take him due to almost aging out. He ended up at RICA. Some people would say that RICA is heavy handed with seclusion and restraint. I would say that RICA is not. I also think a lot of how you feel about it depends on how old your child is and how long you’ve been dealing with these behaviors. We’ve been through a few inpatient stays and a therapeutic camp—seclusion and restraint is what my kid needs. I really don’t bat an eye at it anymore. I probably would have been more concerned hearing those words with a K child.

The only one that would know if seclusion and restraint would be right for a child is the parent. I know when my kid got dysregulated, he was a danger to himself and others around him. For everyone’s safety, he needed to be moved into a seclusion room. Of course when he was dysregulated, he wouldn’t go willingly so restraint had to be used. I would offer though that in every scenario my son has been in, if he’s in a seclusion room, there has always been an adult right outside the door that would continually check on him. Once he was calmed enough, seclusion ended.

What I loved about Lourie is that it is relationship based rather than behavioral based. My kid never cared about points, rewards, or any other type of token economy. He needed a go to person, and still does, when he is dysregulated. That’s the person that he trusts enough to help him calm down. As he’s matured, it has become less frequent, but he still needs that relationship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again. 16:01 that is interesting. I have to say it’s something I have wondered about, really since he was tiny. He has always been challenging. I was extremely anxious during my pregnancy with him due to a previous neonatal full term loss and worry that he was bathed in sadness hormones in utero. May I ask how the ASD diagnosis helped? I wonder if it’s something I should push for again.

OP, gently, please let this go. Gently chase it away. You did not cause your son's issues by mourning the loss of your older child.

My kids with disabilities are teens now, and if there is one thing I can say from my journey: disability can come to any family, at any time, for any reason. It is tempting to look for reasons, but honestly, as parents we are nearly always wrong; disability is complex, multivariate, and usually unexplainable.

You've endured a horrific loss, and I am so sorry. You can set down the burden of blaming yourself for your DS's struggles. Please let it go. What I see from your posts is a dedicated, caring mother who is fighting for a little boy who is struggling. It is okay to let go of your worries about your pregnancy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:15:17 —For context I would give Lourie Center a call. That’s where I should have put my son. Just talk to the admissions director. Tell him about your sons behaviors. He can tell you what his school would do in situations where your child is being aggressive and eloping.

When you have the IEP meeting, what Lourie Center says they would do is what you want in the IEP. It could be that what Lourie does can be provided at another placement. But at least you would know how behaviors should be and can be handled.

Lourie was described on DCUM as "heavy handed on restraints and seclusion." https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/858113.page

If I were OP I would POUR money into getting a good behavioral plan at this school, and start on anti-anxiety meds to see if an SSRI works. OP mentioned she has anxiety so that's likely a big piece of what her child has as well.

15:17 again—lol, I started that thread. By the time we got to placement, Lourie wouldn’t take him due to almost aging out. He ended up at RICA. Some people would say that RICA is heavy handed with seclusion and restraint. I would say that RICA is not. I also think a lot of how you feel about it depends on how old your child is and how long you’ve been dealing with these behaviors. We’ve been through a few inpatient stays and a therapeutic camp—seclusion and restraint is what my kid needs. I really don’t bat an eye at it anymore. I probably would have been more concerned hearing those words with a K child.

The only one that would know if seclusion and restraint would be right for a child is the parent. I know when my kid got dysregulated, he was a danger to himself and others around him. For everyone’s safety, he needed to be moved into a seclusion room. Of course when he was dysregulated, he wouldn’t go willingly so restraint had to be used. I would offer though that in every scenario my son has been in, if he’s in a seclusion room, there has always been an adult right outside the door that would continually check on him. Once he was calmed enough, seclusion ended.

What I loved about Lourie is that it is relationship based rather than behavioral based. My kid never cared about points, rewards, or any other type of token economy. He needed a go to person, and still does, when he is dysregulated. That’s the person that he trusts enough to help him calm down. As he’s matured, it has become less frequent, but he still needs that relationship.

I don't think DCPS sends kids to RICA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:15:17 —For context I would give Lourie Center a call. That’s where I should have put my son. Just talk to the admissions director. Tell him about your sons behaviors. He can tell you what his school would do in situations where your child is being aggressive and eloping.

When you have the IEP meeting, what Lourie Center says they would do is what you want in the IEP. It could be that what Lourie does can be provided at another placement. But at least you would know how behaviors should be and can be handled.

Lourie was described on DCUM as "heavy handed on restraints and seclusion." https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/858113.page

If I were OP I would POUR money into getting a good behavioral plan at this school, and start on anti-anxiety meds to see if an SSRI works. OP mentioned she has anxiety so that's likely a big piece of what her child has as well.

15:17 again—lol, I started that thread. By the time we got to placement, Lourie wouldn’t take him due to almost aging out. He ended up at RICA. Some people would say that RICA is heavy handed with seclusion and restraint. I would say that RICA is not. I also think a lot of how you feel about it depends on how old your child is and how long you’ve been dealing with these behaviors. We’ve been through a few inpatient stays and a therapeutic camp—seclusion and restraint is what my kid needs. I really don’t bat an eye at it anymore. I probably would have been more concerned hearing those words with a K child.

The only one that would know if seclusion and restraint would be right for a child is the parent. I know when my kid got dysregulated, he was a danger to himself and others around him. For everyone’s safety, he needed to be moved into a seclusion room. Of course when he was dysregulated, he wouldn’t go willingly so restraint had to be used. I would offer though that in every scenario my son has been in, if he’s in a seclusion room, there has always been an adult right outside the door that would continually check on him. Once he was calmed enough, seclusion ended.

What I loved about Lourie is that it is relationship based rather than behavioral based. My kid never cared about points, rewards, or any other type of token economy. He needed a go to person, and still does, when he is dysregulated. That’s the person that he trusts enough to help him calm down. As he’s matured, it has become less frequent, but he still needs that relationship.

Right, not disputing your experience at all! Just - we don't know what works for OP's child yet because they haven't tried other approaches (FBA, meds). I'm glad that Lourie does restraints and seclusion in a way you find appropriate. My concern with my own child with behaviors is that he does NOT need that approach - and I worry that if he was sent to a place that used them regularly they would be inappropriately used on him because "that's just what we do here."

[Anonymous]

OP: Have you met with your school's principal? I would start there to see what s/he knows about the situation, what s/he recommends, etc. Even if you end up going the lawyer route, it would be helpful to get a better sense of what your school is willing to do/what they recommend. Your school's principal will have a sense of how unusual the CHAMPS call was for your school's social worker/psychologist and doesn't have some of the negative incentives that DCPS has re: cost avoidance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I don't think DCPS sends kids to RICA.

That’s correct. RICA Rockville day school is only for MCPS. RICA Rockville Residential take kids from other nearby MD counties. The day school doesn’t start until 3rd.

[Anonymous]

Thank you, it’s OP again, sorry - i don’t know how to reply to a message. I didn’t know about the free consultation. That is very helpful. I will also ask Georgetown about doing a second evaluation for ASD.

For those of you who said your child did similar things - what did you do? How did things end up?

[Anonymous]

Also, about to get into bedtime madness but will respond to other posts later this evening. Thank you SO much everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thank you, it’s OP again, sorry - i don’t know how to reply to a message. I didn’t know about the free consultation. That is very helpful. I will also ask Georgetown about doing a second evaluation for ASD.

For those of you who said your child did similar things - what did you do? How did things end up?

In a very tiny font on the upper righthand corner of each message, there's a box that says 'quote'. If you press it you will be able to reply directly. It only took me 5 months to figure out

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again. 16:01 that is interesting. I have to say it’s something I have wondered about, really since he was tiny. He has always been challenging. I was extremely anxious during my pregnancy with him due to a previous neonatal full term loss and worry that he was bathed in sadness hormones in utero. May I ask how the ASD diagnosis helped? I wonder if it’s something I should push for again.

OP, gently, please let this go. Gently chase it away. You did not cause your son's issues by mourning the loss of your older child.

My kids with disabilities are teens now, and if there is one thing I can say from my journey: disability can come to any family, at any time, for any reason. It is tempting to look for reasons, but honestly, as parents we are nearly always wrong; disability is complex, multivariate, and usually unexplainable.

You've endured a horrific loss, and I am so sorry. You can set down the burden of blaming yourself for your DS's struggles. Please let it go. What I see from your posts is a dedicated, caring mother who is fighting for a little boy who is struggling. It is okay to let go of your worries about your pregnancy.

+100 Just what I was going to say. This is really stressful and difficult but I can tell you are doing a good job.

[Anonymous]

A lot of advocates can claim prior teaching experience, but ask to see if any have taught your child's grade in DCPS specifically, in what settings, with which disabilities. How many FBAs and BIPs have they themselves written? How many IEP meetings have they chaired? How many other children with your child's specific behaviors have they seen? And it's always a red flag when you have to go through multiple layers of people to get to said advocate, or if they take more than 24 hours to return a call.

[Anonymous]

OP, I was you a few years ago. Our child did not elope or do things like taking off his clothes but did have several large meltdowns at that age that made us question WTH was going on. Our DC had done fine in preschool.

We went down the same road and Weinfeld was useless.
You need to get a lawyer for a child with behaviors.

At the same time you should get someone to help do an FBA and figure out the function of the behaviors. This is really hard and you may try a few things and find out you were wrong until you hit the right trigger. Remember usually behaviors can be characterized as being triggered by seeking something or avoiding something. What is it that he is seeking or avoiding? It may be the fans bother him or it's too bright in the classroom. It could be he's being bullied. Does he have undiagnosed dyslexia? These are really simple reasons and often it's a lot more complicated and less concrete than that. The last example of a child having dyslexia is a true one. One of DC's friends became very angry at that age and was lashing out until the parents figured it out. He's also 2e (as is our son.)

For the lawyer you need to figure out what you want. Do you want to figure out a way to have him stay at his school with support? Do you want a new placement and if so what do you think would be the right one? There are social emotional placements where they have social workers and psychologists helping with behaviors. I am not in DCPS but in our school district those programs work really well for kids at a young age. Many of those kids transition back to fulltime mainstream programs.

[Anonymous]

This is PP. Another thing I would say is I would pay for a private FBA/BIP. It was the best money we spent in all of this.

[Anonymous]

I think Weinfeld is more Montgomery County based anyways. When the stakes are this high, you're going to need someone who knows their way around DC.

[Anonymous]

School based SLP here (not in DCPS however). Also, I did not read the whole thread, just the first page, so you may have covered this.

OP, trust me when I tell you that the regular education school staff does not want to deny your child what he needs. I have no idea about "central office" in DCPS but as a person who works directly with kids in a regular education school, when children are clearly in the wrong place, we absolutely want them to get an appropriate placement. We will write reports, collect data, provide anecdotal evidence and show work samples (or lack thereof) to support the right placement.

In fact, at my school in a neighboring county, we have a few students who are at our school for the first time (K and 1st grade) because of Covid. One is "eloping" (I don't love that word) and he has many avoidance behaviors and right now, he is just not safe. Another is just not cognitively at the level needed for regular education. Today, I told my colleagues that these kids "are telling us in many ways that they are in the wrong place" everyone agreed.

Just today, our special education team had a conversation saying that we need our higher ups to meet with us to give us clear guidelines about what documentation they need from us, what programs are out there right now (staffing is tough in my district) and what is the timeline. We are on board with helping these kids get exactly what they need.

Please talk to the professionals that work with your team to join efforts for what is right for your child. They want what is right for your child.

Good luck, I hope you find some peace and that your child gets to a place that will allow him to learn.