What to do next? Elopement and aggression with first grader

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:School based SLP here (not in DCPS however). Also, I did not read the whole thread, just the first page, so you may have covered this.

OP, trust me when I tell you that the regular education school staff does not want to deny your child what he needs. I have no idea about "central office" in DCPS but as a person who works directly with kids in a regular education school, when children are clearly in the wrong place, we absolutely want them to get an appropriate placement. We will write reports, collect data, provide anecdotal evidence and show work samples (or lack thereof) to support the right placement.

In fact, at my school in a neighboring county, we have a few students who are at our school for the first time (K and 1st grade) because of Covid. One is "eloping" (I don't love that word) and he has many avoidance behaviors and right now, he is just not safe. Another is just not cognitively at the level needed for regular education. Today, I told my colleagues that these kids "are telling us in many ways that they are in the wrong place" everyone agreed.

Just today, our special education team had a conversation saying that we need our higher ups to meet with us to give us clear guidelines about what documentation they need from us, what programs are out there right now (staffing is tough in my district) and what is the timeline. We are on board with helping these kids get exactly what they need.

Please talk to the professionals that work with your team to join efforts for what is right for your child. They want what is right for your child.

Good luck, I hope you find some peace and that your child gets to a place that will allow him to learn.

Who are you to make this type of judgment? Sometimes kid are in "the right place" but they need some support to be successful. I find it disgusting you are having placement discussions behind a family's back without the whole IEP there to discuss. This is a violation of policy and you should be fired.

No kidding!! These sped posters keep on telling on themselves. Someone could have said this about my DS too and he is 100% mainstreamed and doing well (with the supports I fought for hard.) I’ve seen other kids go from a DCPS claiming they need self-contained to thriving at charters that provide more services. TG the LRE process required more than some SLP saying “the child told me!”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey! Let's argue in a different thread and not clog it up for OP. She can get legal advice from a lawyer and not a message board.

I agree and that is why uninformed people should not be making assertions here about IDEA. Post a link to back up what you’re saying.

Ma'am I was not the poster going back and forth with you. I think everyone should take it down a notch, this child is in crisis and this is kind of derailing the thread.

yes I know. I meant the sped teachers posting misinformation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:School based SLP here (not in DCPS however). Also, I did not read the whole thread, just the first page, so you may have covered this.

OP, trust me when I tell you that the regular education school staff does not want to deny your child what he needs. I have no idea about "central office" in DCPS but as a person who works directly with kids in a regular education school, when children are clearly in the wrong place, we absolutely want them to get an appropriate placement. We will write reports, collect data, provide anecdotal evidence and show work samples (or lack thereof) to support the right placement.

In fact, at my school in a neighboring county, we have a few students who are at our school for the first time (K and 1st grade) because of Covid. One is "eloping" (I don't love that word) and he has many avoidance behaviors and right now, he is just not safe. Another is just not cognitively at the level needed for regular education. Today, I told my colleagues that these kids "are telling us in many ways that they are in the wrong place" everyone agreed.

Just today, our special education team had a conversation saying that we need our higher ups to meet with us to give us clear guidelines about what documentation they need from us, what programs are out there right now (staffing is tough in my district) and what is the timeline. We are on board with helping these kids get exactly what they need.

Please talk to the professionals that work with your team to join efforts for what is right for your child. They want what is right for your child.

Good luck, I hope you find some peace and that your child gets to a place that will allow him to learn.

Hi, thank you for responding to this thread. I appreciate it. I believe totally that the school staff want to do right by him. I like them very much and don't feel in any way adversarial toward them. They are working hard in a very difficult situation, and you don't go into teaching for the money - these are good people who care about children. I have linked them with the professionals we found privately (his OT, a psychologist who came in to observe, and psychiatrist). No one from the school has yet told me "you need to do X" which is why I'm considering another professional advocate or educational adviser to hold my hand. I basically just want to know what to do next, because the situation has gotten so extreme.

Good luck OP! I think between the lawyers mentioned in this thread and the advocates linked from the other thread, someone's going to be able to help you out. My heart goes out to you for all the calls you're going to make!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:School based SLP here (not in DCPS however). Also, I did not read the whole thread, just the first page, so you may have covered this.

OP, trust me when I tell you that the regular education school staff does not want to deny your child what he needs. I have no idea about "central office" in DCPS but as a person who works directly with kids in a regular education school, when children are clearly in the wrong place, we absolutely want them to get an appropriate placement. We will write reports, collect data, provide anecdotal evidence and show work samples (or lack thereof) to support the right placement.

In fact, at my school in a neighboring county, we have a few students who are at our school for the first time (K and 1st grade) because of Covid. One is "eloping" (I don't love that word) and he has many avoidance behaviors and right now, he is just not safe. Another is just not cognitively at the level needed for regular education. Today, I told my colleagues that these kids "are telling us in many ways that they are in the wrong place" everyone agreed.

Just today, our special education team had a conversation saying that we need our higher ups to meet with us to give us clear guidelines about what documentation they need from us, what programs are out there right now (staffing is tough in my district) and what is the timeline. We are on board with helping these kids get exactly what they need.

Please talk to the professionals that work with your team to join efforts for what is right for your child. They want what is right for your child.

Good luck, I hope you find some peace and that your child gets to a place that will allow him to learn.

Who are you to make this type of judgment? Sometimes kid are in "the right place" but they need some support to be successful. I find it disgusting you are having placement discussions behind a family's back without the whole IEP there to discuss. This is a violation of policy and you should be fired.

No kidding!! These sped posters keep on telling on themselves. Someone could have said this about my DS too and he is 100% mainstreamed and doing well (with the supports I fought for hard.) I’ve seen other kids go from a DCPS claiming they need self-contained to thriving at charters that provide more services. TG the LRE process required more than some SLP saying “the child told me!”

Anecdotal evidence is very compelling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey! Let's argue in a different thread and not clog it up for OP. She can get legal advice from a lawyer and not a message board.

I agree and that is why uninformed people should not be making assertions here about IDEA. Post a link to back up what you’re saying.

Ma'am I was not the poster going back and forth with you. I think everyone should take it down a notch, this child is in crisis and this is kind of derailing the thread.

yes I know. I meant the sped teachers posting misinformation.

No you are.

Dcps bus will not take your child to an ED center, the loophole may be if you say that’s your address.

They will not pay for an outside evaluation until the school has done one first.

I know you hate special education teachers but at least don’t try to poison OP who likes the team.


OP just make sure you have someone advocate for your child and know first steps have the FBA and BIP. Make sure you know who is implementing it too. I find in gen ed sometimes they write a beautiful BIP but it’s not really being followed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey! Let's argue in a different thread and not clog it up for OP. She can get legal advice from a lawyer and not a message board.

I agree and that is why uninformed people should not be making assertions here about IDEA. Post a link to back up what you’re saying.

Ma'am I was not the poster going back and forth with you. I think everyone should take it down a notch, this child is in crisis and this is kind of derailing the thread.

yes I know. I meant the sped teachers posting misinformation.

No you are.

Dcps bus will not take your child to an ED center, the loophole may be if you say that’s your address.

They will not pay for an outside evaluation until the school has done one first.

I know you hate special education teachers but at least don’t try to poison OP who likes the team.


OP just make sure you have someone advocate for your child and know first steps have the FBA and BIP. Make sure you know who is implementing it too. I find in gen ed sometimes they write a beautiful BIP but it’s not really being followed.

You’re STILL wrong. LEAs can in fact be required to do transportation to sites other than homes.

page 9: https://osse.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/osse/publication/attachments/OSSE%20Transportation%20PolicyV07292014.pdf

you really need to go away. you are giving bad advice, insulting parents, and contributing nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey! Let's argue in a different thread and not clog it up for OP. She can get legal advice from a lawyer and not a message board.

I agree and that is why uninformed people should not be making assertions here about IDEA. Post a link to back up what you’re saying.

Ma'am I was not the poster going back and forth with you. I think everyone should take it down a notch, this child is in crisis and this is kind of derailing the thread.

yes I know. I meant the sped teachers posting misinformation.

No you are.

Dcps bus will not take your child to an ED center, the loophole may be if you say that’s your address.

They will not pay for an outside evaluation until the school has done one first.

I know you hate special education teachers but at least don’t try to poison OP who likes the team.


OP just make sure you have someone advocate for your child and know first steps have the FBA and BIP. Make sure you know who is implementing it too. I find in gen ed sometimes they write a beautiful BIP but it’s not really being followed.

You’re STILL wrong. LEAs can in fact be required to do transportation to sites other than homes.

page 9: https://osse.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/osse/publication/attachments/OSSE%20Transportation%20PolicyV07292014.pdf

you really need to go away. you are giving bad advice, insulting parents, and contributing nothing.

I didn’t say for sure they wouldn’t take them but they won’t pick them up afterwards.
And what about the evaluation?
Nice cherry-picking to seem right~

[Anonymous]

Hi OP, I'm so sorry you're going through this. Your situation reminds me of where we were when my son was in 2nd grade. He had similar outbursts and eloped from the school twice. It got so bad to the point he was suspended at 7 years old (it was later expunged because they weren't following his 504). His behaviors were really situational and teacher-dependent. He had a terrible 2nd-grade year, a fantastic 3rd-grade year, a pretty bad 4th-grade year, and 5th grade was completely remote which actually worked out really well for him and our family.

He was diagnosed with ADHD initially. He's now 11 years old and the diagnosis has changed to anxiety and depression. Pre-Covid he went through the KKI Behavior Management Clinic and Alvord Baker Resilience Builders. He's currently in weekly CBT therapy, sees a psychiatrist every 6 weeks, and is taking Guanfacine and an SSRI. It really is a struggle and seemed insurmountable at first putting his team together. Meds have really worked as well as consistent therapy.

I have to say he's improved tremendously though it's been a long road. What used to be external outbursts are now manifesting as physical symptoms like stomach aches and chest tightening. He's at a small mainstream independent school in DC and is doing well in 6th grade. He's very bright and does well academically. He is also really adept at hiding his anxious feelings so most teachers don't realize he's struggling until he either feels "sick" or they observe some behaviors (which are rare at this point, knock on wood).

I would definitely recommend looking into something other than public school if it's feasible for your family. Good luck OP! I wanted to share because oftentimes it can seem so hopeless at first.

[Anonymous]

DP, wanting to say thank you to PP for sharing what her child went through and the therapies they tried.

If there are others who have children who had behaviors in K-2nd who are now older how is your child doing and what supports did you provide?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP, I'm so sorry you're going through this. Your situation reminds me of where we were when my son was in 2nd grade. He had similar outbursts and eloped from the school twice. It got so bad to the point he was suspended at 7 years old (it was later expunged because they weren't following his 504). His behaviors were really situational and teacher-dependent. He had a terrible 2nd-grade year, a fantastic 3rd-grade year, a pretty bad 4th-grade year, and 5th grade was completely remote which actually worked out really well for him and our family.

He was diagnosed with ADHD initially. He's now 11 years old and the diagnosis has changed to anxiety and depression. Pre-Covid he went through the KKI Behavior Management Clinic and Alvord Baker Resilience Builders. He's currently in weekly CBT therapy, sees a psychiatrist every 6 weeks, and is taking Guanfacine and an SSRI. It really is a struggle and seemed insurmountable at first putting his team together. Meds have really worked as well as consistent therapy.

I have to say he's improved tremendously though it's been a long road. What used to be external outbursts are now manifesting as physical symptoms like stomach aches and chest tightening. He's at a small mainstream independent school in DC and is doing well in 6th grade. He's very bright and does well academically. He is also really adept at hiding his anxious feelings so most teachers don't realize he's struggling until he either feels "sick" or they observe some behaviors (which are rare at this point, knock on wood).

I would definitely recommend looking into something other than public school if it's feasible for your family. Good luck OP! I wanted to share because oftentimes it can seem so hopeless at first.

Hi there, it's OP. I really appreciate you sharing this. I am so glad that your son is doing better, and that things have slowly improved for your family. Thank you for your encouragement. We could possibly manage private school but would probably need financial aid as we have two younger children as well who are currently in daycare. And, we'd need to extinguish the aggressive behavior first.

I know there were mixed reviews on the Weinfeld group but they got back to me quickly and recommended an educational advocate who specializes in behavioral issues, Paul Livelli. So I think we are going to try working with him. So grateful for all the advice here. Hoping that the school won't see this as us trying to be hostile, because I genuinely believe that they are working incredibly hard with him and dealing with an extremely challenging situation - I just need my hand held through the process as we figure out what to do.

Thank you again to everyone who has responded - I truly appreciate you all taking the time to share your experiences and advice as I muddle my way through this situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP: Have you met with your school's principal? I would start there to see what s/he knows about the situation, what s/he recommends, etc. Even if you end up going the lawyer route, it would be helpful to get a better sense of what your school is willing to do/what they recommend. Your school's principal will have a sense of how unusual the CHAMPS call was for your school's social worker/psychologist and doesn't have some of the negative incentives that DCPS has re: cost avoidance.

Thank you for this - I haven't met with her yet. I did talk to her briefly as on one occasion a few weeks ago, and she suggested that he come home in the afternoons and effectively homeschool then (or virtual school). Neither my husband nor I love this idea because we both work. But we should probably talk to her again. I would love for someone in the school to be direct with me about what they think we should do.

This is not ok for the principal to suggest--the school system is responsible for providing an education (FAPE).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP: Have you met with your school's principal? I would start there to see what s/he knows about the situation, what s/he recommends, etc. Even if you end up going the lawyer route, it would be helpful to get a better sense of what your school is willing to do/what they recommend. Your school's principal will have a sense of how unusual the CHAMPS call was for your school's social worker/psychologist and doesn't have some of the negative incentives that DCPS has re: cost avoidance.

Thank you for this - I haven't met with her yet. I did talk to her briefly as on one occasion a few weeks ago, and she suggested that he come home in the afternoons and effectively homeschool then (or virtual school). Neither my husband nor I love this idea because we both work. But we should probably talk to her again. I would love for someone in the school to be direct with me about what they think we should do.

This is not ok for the principal to suggest--the school system is responsible for providing an education (FAPE).

Stop being so rigid and technical.
Especially at this young age you need to look at what can help the child - not what rights he has and what he "deserves."
I actually think this is a good suggestion because if he can get through a few hours of school successfully you can increase the mainstreamed time.
You could also do this with the social worker of course by having him spend half the day with her formally and the other half in regular school. But personally I might want to take my child out of school for a half day if he was suffering like this.

OP, I know you work but this is a huge crisis. It is very rare to have a child with behaviors as severe as your child. The worst I have seen personally is children having severe meltdowns but they would be far between like at most 2-3 times a whole semester and the child would be cooperative most of the time and not elope. I have known children who elope of course but it's not usually the same child as the child who has the meltdowns or the aggressive kid. Having all these is a lot and I think the principal sounds great because she seems willing to work with you. Most principals and staff would just want him gone so he can be someone else's problem. They are likely also dealing with other parents in the school with pitchforks demanding your child be removed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP: Have you met with your school's principal? I would start there to see what s/he knows about the situation, what s/he recommends, etc. Even if you end up going the lawyer route, it would be helpful to get a better sense of what your school is willing to do/what they recommend. Your school's principal will have a sense of how unusual the CHAMPS call was for your school's social worker/psychologist and doesn't have some of the negative incentives that DCPS has re: cost avoidance.

Thank you for this - I haven't met with her yet. I did talk to her briefly as on one occasion a few weeks ago, and she suggested that he come home in the afternoons and effectively homeschool then (or virtual school). Neither my husband nor I love this idea because we both work. But we should probably talk to her again. I would love for someone in the school to be direct with me about what they think we should do.

This is not ok for the principal to suggest--the school system is responsible for providing an education (FAPE).

Stop being so rigid and technical.
Especially at this young age you need to look at what can help the child - not what rights he has and what he "deserves."
I actually think this is a good suggestion because if he can get through a few hours of school successfully you can increase the mainstreamed time.
You could also do this with the social worker of course by having him spend half the day with her formally and the other half in regular school. But personally I might want to take my child out of school for a half day if he was suffering like this.

OP, I know you work but this is a huge crisis. It is very rare to have a child with behaviors as severe as your child. The worst I have seen personally is children having severe meltdowns but they would be far between like at most 2-3 times a whole semester and the child would be cooperative most of the time and not elope. I have known children who elope of course but it's not usually the same child as the child who has the meltdowns or the aggressive kid. Having all these is a lot and I think the principal sounds great because she seems willing to work with you. Most principals and staff would just want him gone so he can be someone else's problem. They are likely also dealing with other parents in the school with pitchforks demanding your child be removed.

I agree but this person is likely jaded and mistrusting of schools. I think most do actually want to help the child but special education is just not well funded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP: Have you met with your school's principal? I would start there to see what s/he knows about the situation, what s/he recommends, etc. Even if you end up going the lawyer route, it would be helpful to get a better sense of what your school is willing to do/what they recommend. Your school's principal will have a sense of how unusual the CHAMPS call was for your school's social worker/psychologist and doesn't have some of the negative incentives that DCPS has re: cost avoidance.

Thank you for this - I haven't met with her yet. I did talk to her briefly as on one occasion a few weeks ago, and she suggested that he come home in the afternoons and effectively homeschool then (or virtual school). Neither my husband nor I love this idea because we both work. But we should probably talk to her again. I would love for someone in the school to be direct with me about what they think we should do.

This is not ok for the principal to suggest--the school system is responsible for providing an education (FAPE).

Stop being so rigid and technical.
Especially at this young age you need to look at what can help the child - not what rights he has and what he "deserves."
I actually think this is a good suggestion because if he can get through a few hours of school successfully you can increase the mainstreamed time.
You could also do this with the social worker of course by having him spend half the day with her formally and the other half in regular school. But personally I might want to take my child out of school for a half day if he was suffering like this.

OP, I know you work but this is a huge crisis. It is very rare to have a child with behaviors as severe as your child. The worst I have seen personally is children having severe meltdowns but they would be far between like at most 2-3 times a whole semester and the child would be cooperative most of the time and not elope. I have known children who elope of course but it's not usually the same child as the child who has the meltdowns or the aggressive kid. Having all these is a lot and I think the principal sounds great because she seems willing to work with you. Most principals and staff would just want him gone so he can be someone else's problem. They are likely also dealing with other parents in the school with pitchforks demanding your child be removed.

you’ve never seen more than a kid melting down 2-3 times a semester? Ok, I don’t think you’ve seen much. My DS’s pattern is to go through days/weeks of dysregulation and improve once supports and a strong behavioral plan are in place. “Pick your kid up at lunch” is not a plan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP: Have you met with your school's principal? I would start there to see what s/he knows about the situation, what s/he recommends, etc. Even if you end up going the lawyer route, it would be helpful to get a better sense of what your school is willing to do/what they recommend. Your school's principal will have a sense of how unusual the CHAMPS call was for your school's social worker/psychologist and doesn't have some of the negative incentives that DCPS has re: cost avoidance.

Thank you for this - I haven't met with her yet. I did talk to her briefly as on one occasion a few weeks ago, and she suggested that he come home in the afternoons and effectively homeschool then (or virtual school). Neither my husband nor I love this idea because we both work. But we should probably talk to her again. I would love for someone in the school to be direct with me about what they think we should do.

This is not ok for the principal to suggest--the school system is responsible for providing an education (FAPE).

Stop being so rigid and technical.
Especially at this young age you need to look at what can help the child - not what rights he has and what he "deserves."
I actually think this is a good suggestion because if he can get through a few hours of school successfully you can increase the mainstreamed time.
You could also do this with the social worker of course by having him spend half the day with her formally and the other half in regular school. But personally I might want to take my child out of school for a half day if he was suffering like this.

OP, I know you work but this is a huge crisis. It is very rare to have a child with behaviors as severe as your child. The worst I have seen personally is children having severe meltdowns but they would be far between like at most 2-3 times a whole semester and the child would be cooperative most of the time and not elope. I have known children who elope of course but it's not usually the same child as the child who has the meltdowns or the aggressive kid. Having all these is a lot and I think the principal sounds great because she seems willing to work with you. Most principals and staff would just want him gone so he can be someone else's problem. They are likely also dealing with other parents in the school with pitchforks demanding your child be removed.

you’ve never seen more than a kid melting down 2-3 times a semester? Ok, I don’t think you’ve seen much. My DS’s pattern is to go through days/weeks of dysregulation and improve once supports and a strong behavioral plan are in place. “Pick your kid up at lunch” is not a plan.

Except that in some situations, pick your kid up at lunch or drop them off late or have them attend for a few hours in the middle of the day is a plan. For some kids it leads to full attendance. Nothing should be off the table when a child can’t successfully go to school.