Professor here -- curious to hear parents' perspective on this

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even before Covid, I noticed an increase in serious mental health challenges among both undergrad and grad students in my classes and in the department as a whole. Based on conversations with colleagues, it seems to be occurring across the university. The university has some pretty good resources in place and the messaging from higher admin emphasizes supporting the students. But what I struggle with is maintaining standards. I have students who basically stop showing up to class, citing anxiety. They do not complete the work and do not do well on tests. In classes with papers instead of tests, they fail to turn the papers in. I have fairly generous makeup policies and let students drop their lowest test in the exam based courses. I try to use a variety of assessments so students' final grades do not depend on one or two very large assignments.

I reach out to the students who are not showing up and not turning in work and try to offer ways to help them get back on track. I also try to connect them to university mental health resources. But in many cases they either don't respond or want to try to make up work when it is way too late to turn things around. Even if I give them the opportunity to make up most of the work, it's just too much for them after getting so behind. Even giving a grade of Incomplete usually just delays the inevitable, as the challenges that were preventing the students from doing the work in the first place are often still in place a few months later. It just seems like a good proportion of these students would be better off withdrawing from courses rather than getting behind, feeling stressed about that, and still not ending up with a good grade in the end.

I personally think the biggest problem is that there is no good mechanism for students to recognize that college isn't working out at this time and to get their money back. The university doesn't allow a tuition refund unless the student drops quite early in the semester, before the student fully realizes they aren't keeping up. So the student feels like they have to stick with it because they have already paid for it, which I understand. It just feels like a problem with no real solution. I can't just pretend that my classes don't require any work for students experiencing mental health difficulties and give them a passing grade they haven't earned. I worry that the "it's ok not to be ok" messaging is leading some of them to believe it's ok to just stop communicating for weeks/months and that somehow it will all work out later. That is not reality in college nor is it the reality in the workplace.

Do you kids' universities have any effective solutions to this problem? I can't see my university changing their policy around tuition refunds but maybe some of us faculty need to start pushing for it somehow.

As another professor, I have noticed a slight increase in students who seem to be struggling.

However, one of my main complaints prior to the pandemic has always been about how coddled the students are who come into my 101 level course. By coddled I mean expecting to be able to make up exams they missed, turn in work late without any grade ramifications, and expecting extra credit at the end to boost their grades.

It's no wonder why nearly all students have 4.0 or higher GPAs exiting high school when all their teachers allowed grades to be dropped, work to be turned in late without starting out a grade lower, and the reliance on extra credit "busy work."

So many students say they have "anxiety" but when it is broken down and discussed, it boils down to them being overwhelmed and underprepared.

It is not up to individual teachers. I work for MCPS and the district policy dictates what teachers can and can’t do. Most teachers hate how students have no accountability now but we have no choice in the matter and have to follow district rules

[Anonymous]

I think part of the problem is that kids no longer have to manage their time beginning in elementary school like they used to. Homework is gone and has been eliminated through middle school. If it is given, then time is given at the end of class. This even happens in 9th and sometimes, 10th grade classes. All kids now have a dedicated study hall unlike years ago when college-bound students typically did not. And by the time they get to junior and senior years, they must be taking 12+ AP classes or forget about a shot at their state flagship. Talk about 0-60 in seconds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have no solutions to offer, but I have finally accepted that my anxiety-riddled child with ADHD will not be attending college, at least not immediately after high school. It has taken me a while to come to grips with it, but your post only reinforces my conclusion.

I am very sad, although not surprised, to hear that it is a trend at colleges.

It’s ok. My HFA dc with severe anxiety (including social anxiety) is on his second gap year. He is working at a job where he interacts with his co-workers and the public so he works on his social skills. Having seen my other child go away to college during Covid, I know this one would have been completely isolated in a dorm room. I also realized that “the college experience” isn’t for everyone and that if he decides to go to college, he will likely be a commuter (and that’s fine). I hope he decides to go to school for a trade or some type of certification. I don’t care if he gets a degree for the sake of having a degree. It’s taken me awhile to get to this point but I want him to be happy. At the same time, I want him to be stimulated and productive. He is definitely bored in the job he has now - but he needs to figure out his next steps on his own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no solutions to offer, but I have finally accepted that my anxiety-riddled child with ADHD will not be attending college, at least not immediately after high school. It has taken me a while to come to grips with it, but your post only reinforces my conclusion.

I am very sad, although not surprised, to hear that it is a trend at colleges.

It’s ok. My HFA dc with severe anxiety (including social anxiety) is on his second gap year. He is working at a job where he interacts with his co-workers and the public so he works on his social skills. Having seen my other child go away to college during Covid, I know this one would have been completely isolated in a dorm room. I also realized that “the college experience” isn’t for everyone and that if he decides to go to college, he will likely be a commuter (and that’s fine). I hope he decides to go to school for a trade or some type of certification. I don’t care if he gets a degree for the sake of having a degree. It’s taken me awhile to get to this point but I want him to be happy. At the same time, I want him to be stimulated and productive. He is definitely bored in the job he has now - but he needs to figure out his next steps on his own.

This isn't a gap year as he isn't going to college. If he's happy, that is more important. Send him at least to community college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think part of the problem is that kids no longer have to manage their time beginning in elementary school like they used to. Homework is gone and has been eliminated through middle school. If it is given, then time is given at the end of class. This even happens in 9th and sometimes, 10th grade classes. All kids now have a dedicated study hall unlike years ago when college-bound students typically did not. And by the time they get to junior and senior years, they must be taking 12+ AP classes or forget about a shot at their state flagship. Talk about 0-60 in seconds.

Agree, but on the flip side to this the kids aren't getting enough practice, especially in math and other areas in terms of doing the actual problems, which really hurts them academically. Kids don't even read novels anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think part of the problem is that kids no longer have to manage their time beginning in elementary school like they used to. Homework is gone and has been eliminated through middle school. If it is given, then time is given at the end of class. This even happens in 9th and sometimes, 10th grade classes. All kids now have a dedicated study hall unlike years ago when college-bound students typically did not. And by the time they get to junior and senior years, they must be taking 12+ AP classes or forget about a shot at their state flagship. Talk about 0-60 in seconds.

Agree, but on the flip side to this the kids aren't getting enough practice, especially in math and other areas in terms of doing the actual problems, which really hurts them academically. Kids don't even read novels anymore.

True

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kids with even mental health or learning disabilities can really struggle at college. They have barriers that they have to overcome to access the education the way it is delivered. Going back to in person classes after over a year of isolation is rough on all students. Freshman year is a big adjustment for most kids. The ones with LDs and mental health deal with those issues plus the barriers created by their affliction.

Once kids fall behind or start sinking, they often feel overwhelmed and just try to hide. They can’t see a track to get back on path. They can’t navigate the disparate and often uncoordinated offices that are there to help. For every 3 professors who are eager to help their students recover, there is one that will meet the student with terse annoyance and rigidity. The student in a mental health crisis will just shut down further and hide until the semester is over.

Colleges at the administrative level -Deans, advisor, student services , student health and student housing need a consistent and comprehensive approach to intervention. Professors need to take and report attendance. Professors need to not load the entire grade right before the mid term and final. There needs to be some type of assessment early enough to flag kids that are struggling. Professors need to have their syllabus, lectures, and assignments on the pms so a kid trying to get back on track can see what they need to do. The advisors need to be able to sit down with the student, look at the missing assignments with the student and help them come up with a priority plan.

Resident hall staff need to be part of the intervention. They will know the student and can check in. Students with mental health problems will often develop sleep disorders staying up all night and sleeping all day.

College is for adults, not for kids. What you are describing is high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: ... Maybe a child like this needs to attend college from home? OR at least when their existing support network is very close by.

At some point are you all just denying the severity of your child's disability? Instead of communicating that she can achieve her goals, but it may take a different path than some of her friends.

(PS-My sister is a physical therapist. She said that sometimes she feels so bad for preschoolers whose parents are forcing them to try to do things that they are not physically capable of. They think if the kid just tries harder or tries the latest thing they read online or they switch therapists. But it is almost abusive that they won't accept their child's limitations.) I am not saying that is analogous...but sometimes you have to stop pushing the boulder uphill and find an easier path.

I have worked in academia, and I think there is a tipping point to acknowledging disability that can be difficult to reach. It's hard for parents, and it's especially hard for kids. Developmentally, it is normal for them to take risks, have some element of magical thinking along the way, and perseverate on their identity as individuals and members of the community (this is when that gets solidified!).

I think the parents of children with invisible disabilities could gain some insight from child with visible disabilities. They usually don't have the luxury of a longer stretch where they can put off acceptance of the diagnosis. It's not hidden. You can't deny it. And that is really, really hard, but it happens earlier, and you incorporate it into your planning earlier.

Anonymous wrote:I think some of the posters are confusing mental illness like depression or anxiety and learning disabilities like ADHD with immaturity, laziness or lack of motivation. Failure might help the immature or unmotivated but it does nothing to help the mental health or learning disability group. It’s like expecting the kid in a wheelchair to get out of and run a lap. When he drags himself along the track taking 10 times longer you give him an F and laugh at him.

It is significantly harder for these kids to succeed and they need help.

There's a big difference here, though. The kid with CP who uses a wheelchair for almost all mobility isn't mad that other people think he might need to use a wheelchair, or proclaiming loudly that he can walk just fine without it, or refusing to take into account how he is going to use that aid (in practical terms) when he moves out of home, or having meltdowns about people mentioning the wheelchair.

These young people with depression, anxiety, ADHD, learning disabilities, and the like are no longer kids. Legally, they are making decisions for themselves. Developmentally, this is a transition they all need to make. There is a real problem when that autonomy collides with a lack of acknowledgment of the difficulties which need to be dealt with through that autonomy.

In some ways it's reminiscent of what happens when people age, have difficulties, but cannot or will not acknowledge them. And I think there are built in checks for this with visible physical disabilities that just aren't there for the invisible ones. I don't think we have any idea -- as a society that values autonomy over almost everything else, as a whole -- of how to address that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a child at UVA who has struggled with mental health issues.

To be perfectly blunt, some reasonable accommodations are appropriate. But there comes a time where if a student is that dramatically incapacitated, they need to withdraw until they can function again. And also, you cannot allow someone with mental illnesses to use it as a crutch.

There are limits to accommodations. At some point, there have to be natural consequences, and they may not always be pleasant.

I mean, in the work world there will be limits to tolerance for this behavior.

Maybe there should be? What a cold, cruel world we wage slaves subject ourselves to.

[Anonymous]

I taught at VT and had to fail a couple of students due to this sort of behavior. If they have mental health issues, they need to go discuss it with a health provider and do a medical leave of absence or drop out and try later. These kids are largely in school because parents pushed them and can’t do it from afar. These kids would have been better served by a community college then a four year school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child who had severe mental health issues during Covid. Now college frosh. I paid out of pocket something like $600 for an insurance policy to cover my tuition fees in the event that our child has to take time off. The college advertised this to me. Perhaps this type of insurance should be more widespread. Agree wi PPs about need to maintain standards.

Can you share information about this insurance? What does it cover/not cover?

Here's the FAQ from the company our kid's college recommended -- looks like it covers tuition, room & board for medically excused absences (you will obviously want to read fine print)

https://www.tuitionrefundplan.com/TuitionRefundPlan/pages/faq/college_parents.page

[Anonymous]

I think if your DC has mental illness you need to curb your expectations a bit. And choose a school nearer to home in case you are needed at college for support. Everyone is NOT the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At some point enough is enough and adults need to do their work. Stop babying your kids in MS and HS and giving them an out for doing their assignments. COVID is zero excuse. As a parent you need to instill the values that assignments are turned in on time, if you need help ask, if you need more time, ask and help them as needed. Or, stop complaining when your kids fail out of school (baring real mental health issues, not this fake covid stuff) as you and the schools failed them early on. And, stop relying on the schools to parent your kids. This is a great teacher but teaches should be teaching not parenting adults.

I agree that our kids should not be babied in high school.

But with test and grade inflation, and the insanely competitive situation with colleges these days, kids can't afford to have lower grades if they want to go to a T20 college.

It's utterly stupid, but the numbers of applicants are so large that these colleges can't possibly interview and evaluate each student.

In the old days, a kid could get a C and still get into Harvard. Nowadays, a C rules out any T20 school.

And competitive colleges love the fact that they are deluged with applicants. It makes them feel special and elite to only accept 5% of their applicants when 99% of those kids applying are perfectly capable of performing well at those schools.

I'd like my kid to have the opportunity to get Cs in the classes she thinks are stupid (they are stupid!), but that's not possible. She has to get As in all those idiotic classes or doors will be closed to her, and I can't let that happen.

She knows this and understands it, but it's made her cynical about education at an early age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no solutions to offer, but I have finally accepted that my anxiety-riddled child with ADHD will not be attending college, at least not immediately after high school. It has taken me a while to come to grips with it, but your post only reinforces my conclusion.

I am very sad, although not surprised, to hear that it is a trend at colleges.

It’s ok. My HFA dc with severe anxiety (including social anxiety) is on his second gap year. He is working at a job where he interacts with his co-workers and the public so he works on his social skills. Having seen my other child go away to college during Covid, I know this one would have been completely isolated in a dorm room. I also realized that “the college experience” isn’t for everyone and that if he decides to go to college, he will likely be a commuter (and that’s fine). I hope he decides to go to school for a trade or some type of certification. I don’t care if he gets a degree for the sake of having a degree. It’s taken me awhile to get to this point but I want him to be happy. At the same time, I want him to be stimulated and productive. He is definitely bored in the job he has now - but he needs to figure out his next steps on his own.

This isn't a gap year as he isn't going to college. If he's happy, that is more important. Send him at least to community college.

I'm taking CC classes, and I have to say, they are very easy. I have two advanced degrees, and school has always been easy for me, but this is ridiculous! However, for kids with anxiety and other mental health issues, perhaps CC is the way to learn. The classes are not stupid like high school classes. There's no make work. They are real college classes, but with the material handed out in small pieces, and a lot of it spoon fed. Even then kids fail these classes, which is shocking to me. Carefully chosen courses at a CC might be helpful to PPs child. I've been impressed with the professors, who are very good, and are very understanding that a lot of the kids in their courses arrive with issues. If my kid were struggling with mental health issues and needed to stay close to home, I would not hesitate to send her to my CC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At some point enough is enough and adults need to do their work. Stop babying your kids in MS and HS and giving them an out for doing their assignments. COVID is zero excuse. As a parent you need to instill the values that assignments are turned in on time, if you need help ask, if you need more time, ask and help them as needed. Or, stop complaining when your kids fail out of school (baring real mental health issues, not this fake covid stuff) as you and the schools failed them early on. And, stop relying on the schools to parent your kids. This is a great teacher but teaches should be teaching not parenting adults.

I agree that our kids should not be babied in high school.

But with test and grade inflation, and the insanely competitive situation with colleges these days, kids can't afford to have lower grades if they want to go to a T20 college.

It's utterly stupid, but the numbers of applicants are so large that these colleges can't possibly interview and evaluate each student.

In the old days, a kid could get a C and still get into Harvard. Nowadays, a C rules out any T20 school.

And competitive colleges love the fact that they are deluged with applicants. It makes them feel special and elite to only accept 5% of their applicants when 99% of those kids applying are perfectly capable of performing well at those schools.

I'd like my kid to have the opportunity to get Cs in the classes she thinks are stupid (they are stupid!), but that's not possible. She has to get As in all those idiotic classes or doors will be closed to her, and I can't let that happen.

She knows this and understands it, but it's made her cynical about education at an early age.

You could never get in with a c. My sibling did not get in with all a’s