Why is the Foxhall Community Citizens Association scared of public school children?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Look, I think the NIMBYs in foxhall are silly; we do need more schools and the new high school in that location immediately relieves Jackson-Reed by diverting rich families from Jackson-Reed and opening up room there. But Hardy rec is one of the least accessible sites in the city. Why not build another school in Volta Park, Jelleff, Guy Mason, Newark, Forest Hills, or Turtle Park. They Key/Mann axis is the least overcrowded part of Ward 3. A new school at guy mason or jelleff wouldn't annoy the stoddert parents. This site is some suburban no-mans land. There is a reason GDS got rid of their white elephant over there.

All of this. The Foxhall location is just bad bad bad. And no, I am not a Foxhall NIMBY. People simply won't be able to get there reasonable during Rush Hour.

Let's have some fun with Google Maps, shall we? Try the following steps:

1. Pick a random address in Ward 7 or 8 (I tried Randle Highlands because it seemed more or less central to neighborhoods east of the river)

2. Set "Arrive By" to 8:30am on a Monday (or any day of the school week)

3. Calculate travel times by car to get to the Hardy Rec Center and the the different potential Ward 3 sites the poster you responded to mentioned - these are: Volta Park, Jelleff, Guy Mason, Newark, Forest Hills, and Turtle Park

4. Do a ranking of the various rec centers by travel times to prove conclusively just how long it takes to get to this "least accessible site" versus the other most better situated sites . . .

Oh, but wait! What's that? Holy hell! Of those sites, the Hardy Rec Center - future site of Foxhall ES - is actually the quickest to get to of all of those listed from Randall Heights (bar Volta, with which it is tied for travel times at 18-35 mins).

Don't ever ever let the actual facts get in the way of your opinions, am I right? By all means, keep making stuff up. The NIMBYs can't get enough of it.

By car.

now try by metro

And if I gave you that, you’d be asking me about times by jet pack or something. Bus services to Foxhall / Palisades was cut due to the pandemic. What it is now won’t have much bearing on what it will be in a couple of years once the schools are open. The point is that Foxhall is not the remote enclave that the local NIMBYs want to think of it as and those who want schools built elsewhere want to project it as.

So you are basically saying that all of the students will need to be driven to the new schools, except for the precious few who live enough to be able to walk to it. How do you square that with the 500 set-aside OOB seats?

No. Not at all. That is a fairly extreme misreading. What the poster is saying is that Foxhall's transit connectivity now is bad because services will be cut due to COVID. But that there is scope for bus services to be added that will make it much easier / quicker to get to the area via transit. Adding a bus between the Rosslyn metro and Foxhall should be feasible for instance.

LOL - lots of the OOB student will be coming from VA! And the drive across the Key Bridge and thru Georgetown is so speedy!

You can keep plastering the lipstick on this pig but it is still a pig.

The transit options to Foxhall are terrible.

Sure you can increase the frequency of the D6 but it is still a 26 minute ride from Dupont Circle during the AM & PM rush hour and almost none of the OOB students will be coming from Dupont but there is no other logical place to tie in with other public transportation in DC. So it is 7 minutes on the Metro from Dupont to Tenleytown or we do a tie in with another form of transit and have kids with 60 minute commutes at best from other parts of DC.

There is also no direct way to walk/bike/take transit from Glover Park and driving is going to force parents onto Reservoir which is already a nightmare during the week. I don't think it is an exaggeration that for most families in Glover Park this school will be harder to get to.

If you're really LOLing, you're laughing at yourself.

Laughing that you don't even know that Foxhall is the *opposite* direction to Georgetown when coming off the Key Bridge.

Laughing that you don't seem to understand that the Blue, Orange, and Silver lines travel west to Rosslyn as well as east.

Laughing that you're willfully ignoring the now well-established fact that no one is planning to send students from Glover Park to Foxhall ES and that Stoddert is receiving a $20.5 million addition to accommodate existing students (but also, beside the point that it is, that you think there is no way to walk or bike between Glover Park and Foxhall).

This post is reminiscent of many a NIMBY tactic to sow total confusion. It's very difficult in any case you think anyone actually believes what you wrote above.

I'm pretty sure that DCPS realized that Stoddert/Glover Park will fight to death to keep their kids in walking distance (which is a stated priority of DCPS). I don't think the stoddert boundary will change, especially after the expansion. I mean, the entire neighborhood will get automatic priority in the lottery (almost everyone is within a 1/2 mile) and worst case scenario, the local families will just get a short term rental in a basement unit to be IB. The feeder pattern will be unchanged. The foxhall school will be like Hyde, mostly OOB with a few local families.

Yeah, Glover Park families are going to fight like crazy to keep their kids at Stoddert. It's utterly insane to send any Stoddert kids to Foxhall, given that Stoddert is literally a 2 minute walk for so many GP families.

If I had to guess, Foxhall will take the southeastern half of the Key boundary and the southern portion of Mann's boundary + the OOB kids.

This will cause redrawing of lots of other boundaries ease crowding elsewhere. The western portion of Mann along Loughboro likely gets sent to Key ES. Southwestern portion of Janney gets sent to Mann ES to relieve overcrowding at Janney. A western portion of Hearst in McLean Gardens and the new City Ridge development would likely be re-zoned to Mann, if needed.

You think there is a world where sending kids from McLean Gardens and City Ridge to somewhere other than Hearst makes any sense?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There was a special ANC 3D meeting yesterday with the deputy mayor Kihn regarding the new schools.

I live in Foxhall and I am in favor of the projects. 90% of those who spoke were against. They were either above 70 or with houses overlooking Hardy Park. It was super embarrassing. There were so many disrespectful comments in the zoom chat. I felt ashamed of my neighbors. I didn’t speak up because who wants to have such vicious enemies in the community? Not sure if that’s why almost nobody spoke up in favor. Maybe everybody else is just letting these people air their grievances without caring anymore?

Or maybe people realize these proposals are a bad idea and the proponents are in the deep minority?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The rest of us who can look at this objectively realize that adding these schools strengthens public education in DC and support them accordingly.

Sure, but the equity issue for this particular school at this particular location is appallingly bad. Just own it.

m

There are many modest apartment buildings along the lower McArthur. Children from there will attend the new school, thus making school access more equitable. Schools serve primarily their neighborhoods. Students from other wards are usually the exception rather than the rule so their concerns should not be primary drivers of the new schools planning.

Also, Key hosts 6 trailers for its 4th and 5th graders and Stoddert will build an addition, but the pace of its growth, who knows, it may become overcrowded again soon.

The new Foxhall ES resolves the overcrowding problem at Key. That needs a solution, not everything has to revolve around equity! It will probably also ensure that families will have another family friendly neighborhood besides Glover Park, and help reduce or prevent future overcrowding at Stoddert.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The rest of us who can look at this objectively realize that adding these schools strengthens public education in DC and support them accordingly.

Sure, but the equity issue for this particular school at this particular location is appallingly bad. Just own it.

If you don’t think DC’s public education system is strengthened by ensuring that all neighborhoods in the city enjoy access to a local elementary school, then there is an empty pool somewhere in Missouri that I’d like to sell you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Look, I think the NIMBYs in foxhall are silly; we do need more schools and the new high school in that location immediately relieves Jackson-Reed by diverting rich families from Jackson-Reed and opening up room there. But Hardy rec is one of the least accessible sites in the city. Why not build another school in Volta Park, Jelleff, Guy Mason, Newark, Forest Hills, or Turtle Park. They Key/Mann axis is the least overcrowded part of Ward 3. A new school at guy mason or jelleff wouldn't annoy the stoddert parents. This site is some suburban no-mans land. There is a reason GDS got rid of their white elephant over there.

All of this. The Foxhall location is just bad bad bad. And no, I am not a Foxhall NIMBY. People simply won't be able to get there reasonable during Rush Hour.

Let's have some fun with Google Maps, shall we? Try the following steps:

1. Pick a random address in Ward 7 or 8 (I tried Randle Highlands because it seemed more or less central to neighborhoods east of the river)

2. Set "Arrive By" to 8:30am on a Monday (or any day of the school week)

3. Calculate travel times by car to get to the Hardy Rec Center and the the different potential Ward 3 sites the poster you responded to mentioned - these are: Volta Park, Jelleff, Guy Mason, Newark, Forest Hills, and Turtle Park

4. Do a ranking of the various rec centers by travel times to prove conclusively just how long it takes to get to this "least accessible site" versus the other most better situated sites . . .

Oh, but wait! What's that? Holy hell! Of those sites, the Hardy Rec Center - future site of Foxhall ES - is actually the quickest to get to of all of those listed from Randall Heights (bar Volta, with which it is tied for travel times at 18-35 mins).

Don't ever ever let the actual facts get in the way of your opinions, am I right? By all means, keep making stuff up. The NIMBYs can't get enough of it.

By car.

now try by metro

And if I gave you that, you’d be asking me about times by jet pack or something. Bus services to Foxhall / Palisades was cut due to the pandemic. What it is now won’t have much bearing on what it will be in a couple of years once the schools are open. The point is that Foxhall is not the remote enclave that the local NIMBYs want to think of it as and those who want schools built elsewhere want to project it as.

So you are basically saying that all of the students will need to be driven to the new schools, except for the precious few who live enough to be able to walk to it. How do you square that with the 500 set-aside OOB seats?

No. Not at all. That is a fairly extreme misreading. What the poster is saying is that Foxhall's transit connectivity now is bad because services will be cut due to COVID. But that there is scope for bus services to be added that will make it much easier / quicker to get to the area via transit. Adding a bus between the Rosslyn metro and Foxhall should be feasible for instance.

LOL - lots of the OOB student will be coming from VA! And the drive across the Key Bridge and thru Georgetown is so speedy!

You can keep plastering the lipstick on this pig but it is still a pig.

The transit options to Foxhall are terrible.

Sure you can increase the frequency of the D6 but it is still a 26 minute ride from Dupont Circle during the AM & PM rush hour and almost none of the OOB students will be coming from Dupont but there is no other logical place to tie in with other public transportation in DC. So it is 7 minutes on the Metro from Dupont to Tenleytown or we do a tie in with another form of transit and have kids with 60 minute commutes at best from other parts of DC.

There is also no direct way to walk/bike/take transit from Glover Park and driving is going to force parents onto Reservoir which is already a nightmare during the week. I don't think it is an exaggeration that for most families in Glover Park this school will be harder to get to.

If you're really LOLing, you're laughing at yourself.

Laughing that you don't even know that Foxhall is the *opposite* direction to Georgetown when coming off the Key Bridge.

Laughing that you don't seem to understand that the Blue, Orange, and Silver lines travel west to Rosslyn as well as east.

Laughing that you're willfully ignoring the now well-established fact that no one is planning to send students from Glover Park to Foxhall ES and that Stoddert is receiving a $20.5 million addition to accommodate existing students (but also, beside the point that it is, that you think there is no way to walk or bike between Glover Park and Foxhall).

This post is reminiscent of many a NIMBY tactic to sow total confusion. It's very difficult in any case you think anyone actually believes what you wrote above.

Have you ever been on a bus across Key Bridge at Rush hour in the morning from Rossylyn?

Have you ever seen OUTBOUND Canal Road in the mornings? These things don't move, and the left turn on to MacArthur is backed up ALL.THE.TIME.

You could be describing any intersection for any arterial road in the city at rush hour. Is the point that DCPS should only build schools next to Metro stations or that WMATA should build Metro stations next to all DCPS elementary schools?

The earlier poster showed that commuting times at rush hour from EOTR to Foxhall / MacArthur by car are less than those for other potential sites in Ward 3. The route runs via Rosslyn and across the Key Bridge. It’s perfectly feasible for WMATA to run a bus along the same route from Rosslyn to Foxhall / MacArthur. That bus is not going to take longer than cars following the same route and, if a dedicated bus lane is opened on Key Bridge as it should be, will be significantly quicker.

No one is here to argue that Foxhall / MacArthur are centrally located. They will primarily serve neighborhoods that are currently very far from their assigned elementary and high schools (much farther than for almost all other neighborhoods in DC). But the claim that these schools are being built in some “isolated enclave” inaccessible to OOB students is contradicted by actual data.

Foxhall NIMBYs are very happy to project their neighborhood as inaccessible if that perception will keep public school children out of their neighborhood. In service of the same goal, they also oppose infrastructure developments (like the redevelopment of the Palisades Trolley Trail or bus and bike lanes) that would make their neighborhood more accessible.

What is perhaps more curious is that there are others (assuming they aren’t NIMBYs in disguise) that echo the NIMBYs’ talking points, perhaps because they don’t like the idea of children across the city having more choice as to whether they can go to school.

The rest of us who can look at this objectively realize that adding these schools strengthens public education in DC and support them accordingly.

The point is, there will never be 500 OOB seats being used for this school BECAUSE of its location. As such, it is a new enclave school for the privilged in Palisades. That is NOT what our city needs right now.

Oh, I get it. You believe that investment in public education in Ward 3 is inequitable because it serves “privileged” folk. This is just silly on many levels but I’ll pick three. First, Foxhall and the Palisades is much economically more diverse than you think - there are thousands of lower-rent apartments along MacArthur Blvd alone. Second, history shows us the importance of middle- and upper-middle class participation to the vitality of public education systems - a sad political reality, but a reality nonetheless. Third, thankfully the city can afford to simultaneously invest in schools in wards across the city; the trade-off between funding schools in poorer and richer areas that you implicitly assume does not really exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Look, I think the NIMBYs in foxhall are silly; we do need more schools and the new high school in that location immediately relieves Jackson-Reed by diverting rich families from Jackson-Reed and opening up room there. But Hardy rec is one of the least accessible sites in the city. Why not build another school in Volta Park, Jelleff, Guy Mason, Newark, Forest Hills, or Turtle Park. They Key/Mann axis is the least overcrowded part of Ward 3. A new school at guy mason or jelleff wouldn't annoy the stoddert parents. This site is some suburban no-mans land. There is a reason GDS got rid of their white elephant over there.

All of this. The Foxhall location is just bad bad bad. And no, I am not a Foxhall NIMBY. People simply won't be able to get there reasonable during Rush Hour.

Let's have some fun with Google Maps, shall we? Try the following steps:

1. Pick a random address in Ward 7 or 8 (I tried Randle Highlands because it seemed more or less central to neighborhoods east of the river)

2. Set "Arrive By" to 8:30am on a Monday (or any day of the school week)

3. Calculate travel times by car to get to the Hardy Rec Center and the the different potential Ward 3 sites the poster you responded to mentioned - these are: Volta Park, Jelleff, Guy Mason, Newark, Forest Hills, and Turtle Park

4. Do a ranking of the various rec centers by travel times to prove conclusively just how long it takes to get to this "least accessible site" versus the other most better situated sites . . .

Oh, but wait! What's that? Holy hell! Of those sites, the Hardy Rec Center - future site of Foxhall ES - is actually the quickest to get to of all of those listed from Randall Heights (bar Volta, with which it is tied for travel times at 18-35 mins).

Don't ever ever let the actual facts get in the way of your opinions, am I right? By all means, keep making stuff up. The NIMBYs can't get enough of it.

By car.

now try by metro

And if I gave you that, you’d be asking me about times by jet pack or something. Bus services to Foxhall / Palisades was cut due to the pandemic. What it is now won’t have much bearing on what it will be in a couple of years once the schools are open. The point is that Foxhall is not the remote enclave that the local NIMBYs want to think of it as and those who want schools built elsewhere want to project it as.

So you are basically saying that all of the students will need to be driven to the new schools, except for the precious few who live enough to be able to walk to it. How do you square that with the 500 set-aside OOB seats?

No. Not at all. That is a fairly extreme misreading. What the poster is saying is that Foxhall's transit connectivity now is bad because services will be cut due to COVID. But that there is scope for bus services to be added that will make it much easier / quicker to get to the area via transit. Adding a bus between the Rosslyn metro and Foxhall should be feasible for instance.

LOL - lots of the OOB student will be coming from VA! And the drive across the Key Bridge and thru Georgetown is so speedy!

You can keep plastering the lipstick on this pig but it is still a pig.

The transit options to Foxhall are terrible.

Sure you can increase the frequency of the D6 but it is still a 26 minute ride from Dupont Circle during the AM & PM rush hour and almost none of the OOB students will be coming from Dupont but there is no other logical place to tie in with other public transportation in DC. So it is 7 minutes on the Metro from Dupont to Tenleytown or we do a tie in with another form of transit and have kids with 60 minute commutes at best from other parts of DC.

There is also no direct way to walk/bike/take transit from Glover Park and driving is going to force parents onto Reservoir which is already a nightmare during the week. I don't think it is an exaggeration that for most families in Glover Park this school will be harder to get to.

If you're really LOLing, you're laughing at yourself.

Laughing that you don't even know that Foxhall is the *opposite* direction to Georgetown when coming off the Key Bridge.

Laughing that you don't seem to understand that the Blue, Orange, and Silver lines travel west to Rosslyn as well as east.

Laughing that you're willfully ignoring the now well-established fact that no one is planning to send students from Glover Park to Foxhall ES and that Stoddert is receiving a $20.5 million addition to accommodate existing students (but also, beside the point that it is, that you think there is no way to walk or bike between Glover Park and Foxhall).

This post is reminiscent of many a NIMBY tactic to sow total confusion. It's very difficult in any case you think anyone actually believes what you wrote above.

Have you ever been on a bus across Key Bridge at Rush hour in the morning from Rossylyn?

Have you ever seen OUTBOUND Canal Road in the mornings? These things don't move, and the left turn on to MacArthur is backed up ALL.THE.TIME.

You could be describing any intersection for any arterial road in the city at rush hour. Is the point that DCPS should only build schools next to Metro stations or that WMATA should build Metro stations next to all DCPS elementary schools?

The earlier poster showed that commuting times at rush hour from EOTR to Foxhall / MacArthur by car are less than those for other potential sites in Ward 3. The route runs via Rosslyn and across the Key Bridge. It’s perfectly feasible for WMATA to run a bus along the same route from Rosslyn to Foxhall / MacArthur. That bus is not going to take longer than cars following the same route and, if a dedicated bus lane is opened on Key Bridge as it should be, will be significantly quicker.

No one is here to argue that Foxhall / MacArthur are centrally located. They will primarily serve neighborhoods that are currently very far from their assigned elementary and high schools (much farther than for almost all other neighborhoods in DC). But the claim that these schools are being built in some “isolated enclave” inaccessible to OOB students is contradicted by actual data.

Foxhall NIMBYs are very happy to project their neighborhood as inaccessible if that perception will keep public school children out of their neighborhood. In service of the same goal, they also oppose infrastructure developments (like the redevelopment of the Palisades Trolley Trail or bus and bike lanes) that would make their neighborhood more accessible.

What is perhaps more curious is that there are others (assuming they aren’t NIMBYs in disguise) that echo the NIMBYs’ talking points, perhaps because they don’t like the idea of children across the city having more choice as to whether they can go to school.

The rest of us who can look at this objectively realize that adding these schools strengthens public education in DC and support them accordingly.

The point is, there will never be 500 OOB seats being used for this school BECAUSE of its location. As such, it is a new enclave school for the privilged in Palisades. That is NOT what our city needs right now.

Oh, I get it. You believe that investment in public education in Ward 3 is inequitable because it serves “privileged” folk. This is just silly on many levels but I’ll pick three. First, Foxhall and the Palisades is much economically more diverse than you think - there are thousands of lower-rent apartments along MacArthur Blvd alone. Second, history shows us the importance of middle- and upper-middle class participation to the vitality of public education systems - a sad political reality, but a reality nonetheless. Third, thankfully the city can afford to simultaneously invest in schools in wards across the city; the trade-off between funding schools in poorer and richer areas that you implicitly assume does not really exist.

Same with the area just north/west of Stoddert and off New Mexico near Mann. Plenty of middle class families living in condos. They'll go to this high school too. Honestly people are so blinded by the 'rich' (who largely attend privates anyways), they forgot there are still middle class families around. Sure they can't afford a 1.5M home, but they can do with a moderately priced condo in a safe neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

y'all missing the point...the Mayor specifically noted 500 OOB seats for the new high school. There is no way that will ever become a reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG. Would some kind soul break down this extremely long post?

Let me try . . . The Foxhall Community Citizens Association (FCCA) is scared of public school children. The public school serving Foxhall - as with many others in Ward 3 - is over-crowded. A solution to this problem appeared in the form of a public school building leased out to a wealthy public school until 2023. Instead of doing what the community wanted and advocating for this public school building to be given back to DCPS, the FCCA did all it could to ensure the lease was extended in virtual perpetuity. The FCCA eventually got what it wanted, but the city then announced a plan to build a new public elementary school right next to that school building. This new school building may end up taking away a bunch of land currently used for a public park. In response, the FCCA is pulling all sorts of shenanigans - including naked attempts to misrepresent community sentiment and harking back to the old NIMBY favorite on parking concerns - to stop the construction of a public school building that would help alleviate overcrowding in the Wilson feeder pattern.

How does that become "FCCA is scared of public school children"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG. Would some kind soul break down this extremely long post?

Let me try . . . The Foxhall Community Citizens Association (FCCA) is scared of public school children. The public school serving Foxhall - as with many others in Ward 3 - is over-crowded. A solution to this problem appeared in the form of a public school building leased out to a wealthy public school until 2023. Instead of doing what the community wanted and advocating for this public school building to be given back to DCPS, the FCCA did all it could to ensure the lease was extended in virtual perpetuity. The FCCA eventually got what it wanted, but the city then announced a plan to build a new public elementary school right next to that school building. This new school building may end up taking away a bunch of land currently used for a public park. In response, the FCCA is pulling all sorts of shenanigans - including naked attempts to misrepresent community sentiment and harking back to the old NIMBY favorite on parking concerns - to stop the construction of a public school building that would help alleviate overcrowding in the Wilson feeder pattern.

How does that become "FCCA is scared of public school children"?

If you have an alternative explanation for what has motivated their behavior over the past five or so years, hit us with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG. Would some kind soul break down this extremely long post?

Let me try . . . The Foxhall Community Citizens Association (FCCA) is scared of public school children. The public school serving Foxhall - as with many others in Ward 3 - is over-crowded. A solution to this problem appeared in the form of a public school building leased out to a wealthy public school until 2023. Instead of doing what the community wanted and advocating for this public school building to be given back to DCPS, the FCCA did all it could to ensure the lease was extended in virtual perpetuity. The FCCA eventually got what it wanted, but the city then announced a plan to build a new public elementary school right next to that school building. This new school building may end up taking away a bunch of land currently used for a public park. In response, the FCCA is pulling all sorts of shenanigans - including naked attempts to misrepresent community sentiment and harking back to the old NIMBY favorite on parking concerns - to stop the construction of a public school building that would help alleviate overcrowding in the Wilson feeder pattern.

How does that become "FCCA is scared of public school children"?

Source?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:y'all missing the point...the Mayor specifically noted 500 OOB seats for the new high school. There is no way that will ever become a reality.

Source? (responded to the wrong post above)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The rest of us who can look at this objectively realize that adding these schools strengthens public education in DC and support them accordingly.

Sure, but the equity issue for this particular school at this particular location is appallingly bad. Just own it.

m

There are many modest apartment buildings along the lower McArthur. Children from there will attend the new school, thus making school access more equitable. Schools serve primarily their neighborhoods. Students from other wards are usually the exception rather than the rule so their concerns should not be primary drivers of the new schools planning.

Also, Key hosts 6 trailers for its 4th and 5th graders and Stoddert will build an addition, but the pace of its growth, who knows, it may become overcrowded again soon.

The new Foxhall ES resolves the overcrowding problem at Key. That needs a solution, not everything has to revolve around equity! It will probably also ensure that families will have another family friendly neighborhood besides Glover Park, and help reduce or prevent future overcrowding at Stoddert.

OK but there is no additional development/population coming to the Palisades/McArthur corridor and sure Key is overcrowded but it is a small school relative to Janney, Murch & Lafayette. The population density is coming to the Wisconsin Avenue corridor and it is Hearst and Janney that are going to get a flood of new students and no amount of tinkering around the edges is going to move seats around to create capacity at those two schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Look, I think the NIMBYs in foxhall are silly; we do need more schools and the new high school in that location immediately relieves Jackson-Reed by diverting rich families from Jackson-Reed and opening up room there. But Hardy rec is one of the least accessible sites in the city. Why not build another school in Volta Park, Jelleff, Guy Mason, Newark, Forest Hills, or Turtle Park. They Key/Mann axis is the least overcrowded part of Ward 3. A new school at guy mason or jelleff wouldn't annoy the stoddert parents. This site is some suburban no-mans land. There is a reason GDS got rid of their white elephant over there.

All of this. The Foxhall location is just bad bad bad. And no, I am not a Foxhall NIMBY. People simply won't be able to get there reasonable during Rush Hour.

Let's have some fun with Google Maps, shall we? Try the following steps:

1. Pick a random address in Ward 7 or 8 (I tried Randle Highlands because it seemed more or less central to neighborhoods east of the river)

2. Set "Arrive By" to 8:30am on a Monday (or any day of the school week)

3. Calculate travel times by car to get to the Hardy Rec Center and the the different potential Ward 3 sites the poster you responded to mentioned - these are: Volta Park, Jelleff, Guy Mason, Newark, Forest Hills, and Turtle Park

4. Do a ranking of the various rec centers by travel times to prove conclusively just how long it takes to get to this "least accessible site" versus the other most better situated sites . . .

Oh, but wait! What's that? Holy hell! Of those sites, the Hardy Rec Center - future site of Foxhall ES - is actually the quickest to get to of all of those listed from Randall Heights (bar Volta, with which it is tied for travel times at 18-35 mins).

Don't ever ever let the actual facts get in the way of your opinions, am I right? By all means, keep making stuff up. The NIMBYs can't get enough of it.

By car.

now try by metro

And if I gave you that, you’d be asking me about times by jet pack or something. Bus services to Foxhall / Palisades was cut due to the pandemic. What it is now won’t have much bearing on what it will be in a couple of years once the schools are open. The point is that Foxhall is not the remote enclave that the local NIMBYs want to think of it as and those who want schools built elsewhere want to project it as.

So you are basically saying that all of the students will need to be driven to the new schools, except for the precious few who live enough to be able to walk to it. How do you square that with the 500 set-aside OOB seats?

No. Not at all. That is a fairly extreme misreading. What the poster is saying is that Foxhall's transit connectivity now is bad because services will be cut due to COVID. But that there is scope for bus services to be added that will make it much easier / quicker to get to the area via transit. Adding a bus between the Rosslyn metro and Foxhall should be feasible for instance.

LOL - lots of the OOB student will be coming from VA! And the drive across the Key Bridge and thru Georgetown is so speedy!

You can keep plastering the lipstick on this pig but it is still a pig.

The transit options to Foxhall are terrible.

Sure you can increase the frequency of the D6 but it is still a 26 minute ride from Dupont Circle during the AM & PM rush hour and almost none of the OOB students will be coming from Dupont but there is no other logical place to tie in with other public transportation in DC. So it is 7 minutes on the Metro from Dupont to Tenleytown or we do a tie in with another form of transit and have kids with 60 minute commutes at best from other parts of DC.

There is also no direct way to walk/bike/take transit from Glover Park and driving is going to force parents onto Reservoir which is already a nightmare during the week. I don't think it is an exaggeration that for most families in Glover Park this school will be harder to get to.

If you're really LOLing, you're laughing at yourself.

Laughing that you don't even know that Foxhall is the *opposite* direction to Georgetown when coming off the Key Bridge.

Laughing that you don't seem to understand that the Blue, Orange, and Silver lines travel west to Rosslyn as well as east.

Laughing that you're willfully ignoring the now well-established fact that no one is planning to send students from Glover Park to Foxhall ES and that Stoddert is receiving a $20.5 million addition to accommodate existing students (but also, beside the point that it is, that you think there is no way to walk or bike between Glover Park and Foxhall).

This post is reminiscent of many a NIMBY tactic to sow total confusion. It's very difficult in any case you think anyone actually believes what you wrote above.

What are you going on and on about? So you think it makes sense for DC students to take the Metro to VA to get a bus to double back through one of the worst traffic bottle necks in the city all to justify this poorly located school that is in this fantasy world going to serve Key students and a bunch of OOB students with this nightmarish commute via Rosslyn?

LOL indeed.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Look, I think the NIMBYs in foxhall are silly; we do need more schools and the new high school in that location immediately relieves Jackson-Reed by diverting rich families from Jackson-Reed and opening up room there. But Hardy rec is one of the least accessible sites in the city. Why not build another school in Volta Park, Jelleff, Guy Mason, Newark, Forest Hills, or Turtle Park. They Key/Mann axis is the least overcrowded part of Ward 3. A new school at guy mason or jelleff wouldn't annoy the stoddert parents. This site is some suburban no-mans land. There is a reason GDS got rid of their white elephant over there.

All of this. The Foxhall location is just bad bad bad. And no, I am not a Foxhall NIMBY. People simply won't be able to get there reasonable during Rush Hour.

Let's have some fun with Google Maps, shall we? Try the following steps:

1. Pick a random address in Ward 7 or 8 (I tried Randle Highlands because it seemed more or less central to neighborhoods east of the river)

2. Set "Arrive By" to 8:30am on a Monday (or any day of the school week)

3. Calculate travel times by car to get to the Hardy Rec Center and the the different potential Ward 3 sites the poster you responded to mentioned - these are: Volta Park, Jelleff, Guy Mason, Newark, Forest Hills, and Turtle Park

4. Do a ranking of the various rec centers by travel times to prove conclusively just how long it takes to get to this "least accessible site" versus the other most better situated sites . . .

Oh, but wait! What's that? Holy hell! Of those sites, the Hardy Rec Center - future site of Foxhall ES - is actually the quickest to get to of all of those listed from Randall Heights (bar Volta, with which it is tied for travel times at 18-35 mins).

Don't ever ever let the actual facts get in the way of your opinions, am I right? By all means, keep making stuff up. The NIMBYs can't get enough of it.

By car.

now try by metro

And if I gave you that, you’d be asking me about times by jet pack or something. Bus services to Foxhall / Palisades was cut due to the pandemic. What it is now won’t have much bearing on what it will be in a couple of years once the schools are open. The point is that Foxhall is not the remote enclave that the local NIMBYs want to think of it as and those who want schools built elsewhere want to project it as.

So you are basically saying that all of the students will need to be driven to the new schools, except for the precious few who live enough to be able to walk to it. How do you square that with the 500 set-aside OOB seats?

No. Not at all. That is a fairly extreme misreading. What the poster is saying is that Foxhall's transit connectivity now is bad because services will be cut due to COVID. But that there is scope for bus services to be added that will make it much easier / quicker to get to the area via transit. Adding a bus between the Rosslyn metro and Foxhall should be feasible for instance.

LOL - lots of the OOB student will be coming from VA! And the drive across the Key Bridge and thru Georgetown is so speedy!

You can keep plastering the lipstick on this pig but it is still a pig.

The transit options to Foxhall are terrible.

Sure you can increase the frequency of the D6 but it is still a 26 minute ride from Dupont Circle during the AM & PM rush hour and almost none of the OOB students will be coming from Dupont but there is no other logical place to tie in with other public transportation in DC. So it is 7 minutes on the Metro from Dupont to Tenleytown or we do a tie in with another form of transit and have kids with 60 minute commutes at best from other parts of DC.

There is also no direct way to walk/bike/take transit from Glover Park and driving is going to force parents onto Reservoir which is already a nightmare during the week. I don't think it is an exaggeration that for most families in Glover Park this school will be harder to get to.

If you're really LOLing, you're laughing at yourself.

Laughing that you don't even know that Foxhall is the *opposite* direction to Georgetown when coming off the Key Bridge.

Laughing that you don't seem to understand that the Blue, Orange, and Silver lines travel west to Rosslyn as well as east.

Laughing that you're willfully ignoring the now well-established fact that no one is planning to send students from Glover Park to Foxhall ES and that Stoddert is receiving a $20.5 million addition to accommodate existing students (but also, beside the point that it is, that you think there is no way to walk or bike between Glover Park and Foxhall).

This post is reminiscent of many a NIMBY tactic to sow total confusion. It's very difficult in any case you think anyone actually believes what you wrote above.

What are you going on and on about? So you think it makes sense for DC students to take the Metro to VA to get a bus to double back through one of the worst traffic bottle necks in the city all to justify this poorly located school that is in this fantasy world going to serve Key students and a bunch of OOB students with this nightmarish commute via Rosslyn?

LOL indeed.

You give the impression of being one of those people who joins a conversation, never bothers to listen hard enough to figure out what it is being talked about, and then makes a ridiculous statement that makes you look like a total nincompoop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Look, I think the NIMBYs in foxhall are silly; we do need more schools and the new high school in that location immediately relieves Jackson-Reed by diverting rich families from Jackson-Reed and opening up room there. But Hardy rec is one of the least accessible sites in the city. Why not build another school in Volta Park, Jelleff, Guy Mason, Newark, Forest Hills, or Turtle Park. They Key/Mann axis is the least overcrowded part of Ward 3. A new school at guy mason or jelleff wouldn't annoy the stoddert parents. This site is some suburban no-mans land. There is a reason GDS got rid of their white elephant over there.

All of this. The Foxhall location is just bad bad bad. And no, I am not a Foxhall NIMBY. People simply won't be able to get there reasonable during Rush Hour.

Let's have some fun with Google Maps, shall we? Try the following steps:

1. Pick a random address in Ward 7 or 8 (I tried Randle Highlands because it seemed more or less central to neighborhoods east of the river)

2. Set "Arrive By" to 8:30am on a Monday (or any day of the school week)

3. Calculate travel times by car to get to the Hardy Rec Center and the the different potential Ward 3 sites the poster you responded to mentioned - these are: Volta Park, Jelleff, Guy Mason, Newark, Forest Hills, and Turtle Park

4. Do a ranking of the various rec centers by travel times to prove conclusively just how long it takes to get to this "least accessible site" versus the other most better situated sites . . .

Oh, but wait! What's that? Holy hell! Of those sites, the Hardy Rec Center - future site of Foxhall ES - is actually the quickest to get to of all of those listed from Randall Heights (bar Volta, with which it is tied for travel times at 18-35 mins).

Don't ever ever let the actual facts get in the way of your opinions, am I right? By all means, keep making stuff up. The NIMBYs can't get enough of it.

By car.

now try by metro

And if I gave you that, you’d be asking me about times by jet pack or something. Bus services to Foxhall / Palisades was cut due to the pandemic. What it is now won’t have much bearing on what it will be in a couple of years once the schools are open. The point is that Foxhall is not the remote enclave that the local NIMBYs want to think of it as and those who want schools built elsewhere want to project it as.

So you are basically saying that all of the students will need to be driven to the new schools, except for the precious few who live enough to be able to walk to it. How do you square that with the 500 set-aside OOB seats?

No. Not at all. That is a fairly extreme misreading. What the poster is saying is that Foxhall's transit connectivity now is bad because services will be cut due to COVID. But that there is scope for bus services to be added that will make it much easier / quicker to get to the area via transit. Adding a bus between the Rosslyn metro and Foxhall should be feasible for instance.

LOL - lots of the OOB student will be coming from VA! And the drive across the Key Bridge and thru Georgetown is so speedy!

You can keep plastering the lipstick on this pig but it is still a pig.

The transit options to Foxhall are terrible.

Sure you can increase the frequency of the D6 but it is still a 26 minute ride from Dupont Circle during the AM & PM rush hour and almost none of the OOB students will be coming from Dupont but there is no other logical place to tie in with other public transportation in DC. So it is 7 minutes on the Metro from Dupont to Tenleytown or we do a tie in with another form of transit and have kids with 60 minute commutes at best from other parts of DC.

There is also no direct way to walk/bike/take transit from Glover Park and driving is going to force parents onto Reservoir which is already a nightmare during the week. I don't think it is an exaggeration that for most families in Glover Park this school will be harder to get to.

If you're really LOLing, you're laughing at yourself.

Laughing that you don't even know that Foxhall is the *opposite* direction to Georgetown when coming off the Key Bridge.

Laughing that you don't seem to understand that the Blue, Orange, and Silver lines travel west to Rosslyn as well as east.

Laughing that you're willfully ignoring the now well-established fact that no one is planning to send students from Glover Park to Foxhall ES and that Stoddert is receiving a $20.5 million addition to accommodate existing students (but also, beside the point that it is, that you think there is no way to walk or bike between Glover Park and Foxhall).

This post is reminiscent of many a NIMBY tactic to sow total confusion. It's very difficult in any case you think anyone actually believes what you wrote above.

Have you ever been on a bus across Key Bridge at Rush hour in the morning from Rossylyn?

Have you ever seen OUTBOUND Canal Road in the mornings? These things don't move, and the left turn on to MacArthur is backed up ALL.THE.TIME.

You could be describing any intersection for any arterial road in the city at rush hour. Is the point that DCPS should only build schools next to Metro stations or that WMATA should build Metro stations next to all DCPS elementary schools?

The earlier poster showed that commuting times at rush hour from EOTR to Foxhall / MacArthur by car are less than those for other potential sites in Ward 3. The route runs via Rosslyn and across the Key Bridge. It’s perfectly feasible for WMATA to run a bus along the same route from Rosslyn to Foxhall / MacArthur. That bus is not going to take longer than cars following the same route and, if a dedicated bus lane is opened on Key Bridge as it should be, will be significantly quicker.

No one is here to argue that Foxhall / MacArthur are centrally located. They will primarily serve neighborhoods that are currently very far from their assigned elementary and high schools (much farther than for almost all other neighborhoods in DC). But the claim that these schools are being built in some “isolated enclave” inaccessible to OOB students is contradicted by actual data.

Foxhall NIMBYs are very happy to project their neighborhood as inaccessible if that perception will keep public school children out of their neighborhood. In service of the same goal, they also oppose infrastructure developments (like the redevelopment of the Palisades Trolley Trail or bus and bike lanes) that would make their neighborhood more accessible.

What is perhaps more curious is that there are others (assuming they aren’t NIMBYs in disguise) that echo the NIMBYs’ talking points, perhaps because they don’t like the idea of children across the city having more choice as to whether they can go to school.

The rest of us who can look at this objectively realize that adding these schools strengthens public education in DC and support them accordingly.

Actually no - going through Georgetown at rush hour (or any other time) really isn't like any other congested intersection in DC. The Key Bridge to anywhere (well Whitehurst isn't usually that bad) is awful even off off peak. It can seriously take 15-20 minutes during rush hour to go just a few blocks in Georgetown and you (or someone) on here is seriously suggesting DC students take the bus from Rosslyn so parents in Foxhall/Palisades can justify this boondoggle?!?

Foxhall is not simply "un-centrally located" - it is one of the hardest to reach corners of the city by all of the means we get around - traffic is terrible, transit is terrible and you really can't bike or walk there from anywhere else either and there is no way to improve any of those options aside from biking if the city fixes the Trolley Trail which is a big if. I don't think there is a HS (or MS) in DC that will be as hard to reach as this one but to justify it as many as half of the seats might need to go to OOB students?

BTW I'm not a NIMBY and don't even live in Foxhall (and think the FCCA people are nuts) but my kids are in the Deal/J-R feeder and this is a waste of DC resources that won't solve the problems for my kids while forcing more people to drive and create more traffic and waste more time and generate more pollution and carbon emissions.