Why is the Foxhall Community Citizens Association scared of public school children?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The rest of us who can look at this objectively realize that adding these schools strengthens public education in DC and support them accordingly.

Sure, but the equity issue for this particular school at this particular location is appallingly bad. Just own it.

m

There are many modest apartment buildings along the lower McArthur. Children from there will attend the new school, thus making school access more equitable. Schools serve primarily their neighborhoods. Students from other wards are usually the exception rather than the rule so their concerns should not be primary drivers of the new schools planning.

Also, Key hosts 6 trailers for its 4th and 5th graders and Stoddert will build an addition, but the pace of its growth, who knows, it may become overcrowded again soon.

The new Foxhall ES resolves the overcrowding problem at Key. That needs a solution, not everything has to revolve around equity! It will probably also ensure that families will have another family friendly neighborhood besides Glover Park, and help reduce or prevent future overcrowding at Stoddert.

OK but there is no additional development/population coming to the Palisades/McArthur corridor and sure Key is overcrowded but it is a small school relative to Janney, Murch & Lafayette. The population density is coming to the Wisconsin Avenue corridor and it is Hearst and Janney that are going to get a flood of new students and no amount of tinkering around the edges is going to move seats around to create capacity at those two schools.

Good job making sweeping statements about future development patterns that have little factual basis. You also apparently are oblivious to the fact that families with children can replace those without in the existing housing stock.

The fact that more schools are needed in other places as well does not mean that it Foxhall ES is not needed. And, per the DME, the city is looking for new properties that it can acquire to build schools to serve the JML communities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Look, I think the NIMBYs in foxhall are silly; we do need more schools and the new high school in that location immediately relieves Jackson-Reed by diverting rich families from Jackson-Reed and opening up room there. But Hardy rec is one of the least accessible sites in the city. Why not build another school in Volta Park, Jelleff, Guy Mason, Newark, Forest Hills, or Turtle Park. They Key/Mann axis is the least overcrowded part of Ward 3. A new school at guy mason or jelleff wouldn't annoy the stoddert parents. This site is some suburban no-mans land. There is a reason GDS got rid of their white elephant over there.

All of this. The Foxhall location is just bad bad bad. And no, I am not a Foxhall NIMBY. People simply won't be able to get there reasonable during Rush Hour.

Let's have some fun with Google Maps, shall we? Try the following steps:

1. Pick a random address in Ward 7 or 8 (I tried Randle Highlands because it seemed more or less central to neighborhoods east of the river)

2. Set "Arrive By" to 8:30am on a Monday (or any day of the school week)

3. Calculate travel times by car to get to the Hardy Rec Center and the the different potential Ward 3 sites the poster you responded to mentioned - these are: Volta Park, Jelleff, Guy Mason, Newark, Forest Hills, and Turtle Park

4. Do a ranking of the various rec centers by travel times to prove conclusively just how long it takes to get to this "least accessible site" versus the other most better situated sites . . .

Oh, but wait! What's that? Holy hell! Of those sites, the Hardy Rec Center - future site of Foxhall ES - is actually the quickest to get to of all of those listed from Randall Heights (bar Volta, with which it is tied for travel times at 18-35 mins).

Don't ever ever let the actual facts get in the way of your opinions, am I right? By all means, keep making stuff up. The NIMBYs can't get enough of it.

By car.

now try by metro

And if I gave you that, you’d be asking me about times by jet pack or something. Bus services to Foxhall / Palisades was cut due to the pandemic. What it is now won’t have much bearing on what it will be in a couple of years once the schools are open. The point is that Foxhall is not the remote enclave that the local NIMBYs want to think of it as and those who want schools built elsewhere want to project it as.

So you are basically saying that all of the students will need to be driven to the new schools, except for the precious few who live enough to be able to walk to it. How do you square that with the 500 set-aside OOB seats?

No. Not at all. That is a fairly extreme misreading. What the poster is saying is that Foxhall's transit connectivity now is bad because services will be cut due to COVID. But that there is scope for bus services to be added that will make it much easier / quicker to get to the area via transit. Adding a bus between the Rosslyn metro and Foxhall should be feasible for instance.

LOL - lots of the OOB student will be coming from VA! And the drive across the Key Bridge and thru Georgetown is so speedy!

You can keep plastering the lipstick on this pig but it is still a pig.

The transit options to Foxhall are terrible.

Sure you can increase the frequency of the D6 but it is still a 26 minute ride from Dupont Circle during the AM & PM rush hour and almost none of the OOB students will be coming from Dupont but there is no other logical place to tie in with other public transportation in DC. So it is 7 minutes on the Metro from Dupont to Tenleytown or we do a tie in with another form of transit and have kids with 60 minute commutes at best from other parts of DC.

There is also no direct way to walk/bike/take transit from Glover Park and driving is going to force parents onto Reservoir which is already a nightmare during the week. I don't think it is an exaggeration that for most families in Glover Park this school will be harder to get to.

If you're really LOLing, you're laughing at yourself.

Laughing that you don't even know that Foxhall is the *opposite* direction to Georgetown when coming off the Key Bridge.

Laughing that you don't seem to understand that the Blue, Orange, and Silver lines travel west to Rosslyn as well as east.

Laughing that you're willfully ignoring the now well-established fact that no one is planning to send students from Glover Park to Foxhall ES and that Stoddert is receiving a $20.5 million addition to accommodate existing students (but also, beside the point that it is, that you think there is no way to walk or bike between Glover Park and Foxhall).

This post is reminiscent of many a NIMBY tactic to sow total confusion. It's very difficult in any case you think anyone actually believes what you wrote above.

What are you going on and on about? So you think it makes sense for DC students to take the Metro to VA to get a bus to double back through one of the worst traffic bottle necks in the city all to justify this poorly located school that is in this fantasy world going to serve Key students and a bunch of OOB students with this nightmarish commute via Rosslyn?

LOL indeed.

You give the impression of being one of those people who joins a conversation, never bothers to listen hard enough to figure out what it is being talked about, and then makes a ridiculous statement that makes you look like a total nincompoop.

More LOL - I've attended most of the ANC meetings, know the area well, know the enrollment numbers at all of the impacted schools and also am in a car light family that gets around all over Ward 3 including on public transit, including in the corridor where this school is going.

You are on here flailing around coming up with all sorts of poorly thought out reasons why this school makes sense and sounding dumber and dumber with each defense of your ideas - why don't you propose a transporter next?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The rest of us who can look at this objectively realize that adding these schools strengthens public education in DC and support them accordingly.

Sure, but the equity issue for this particular school at this particular location is appallingly bad. Just own it.

m

There are many modest apartment buildings along the lower McArthur. Children from there will attend the new school, thus making school access more equitable. Schools serve primarily their neighborhoods. Students from other wards are usually the exception rather than the rule so their concerns should not be primary drivers of the new schools planning.

Also, Key hosts 6 trailers for its 4th and 5th graders and Stoddert will build an addition, but the pace of its growth, who knows, it may become overcrowded again soon.

The new Foxhall ES resolves the overcrowding problem at Key. That needs a solution, not everything has to revolve around equity! It will probably also ensure that families will have another family friendly neighborhood besides Glover Park, and help reduce or prevent future overcrowding at Stoddert.

OK but there is no additional development/population coming to the Palisades/McArthur corridor and sure Key is overcrowded but it is a small school relative to Janney, Murch & Lafayette. The population density is coming to the Wisconsin Avenue corridor and it is Hearst and Janney that are going to get a flood of new students and no amount of tinkering around the edges is going to move seats around to create capacity at those two schools.

Good job making sweeping statements about future development patterns that have little factual basis. You also apparently are oblivious to the fact that families with children can replace those without in the existing housing stock.

The fact that more schools are needed in other places as well does not mean that it Foxhall ES is not needed. And, per the DME, the city is looking for new properties that it can acquire to build schools to serve the JML communities.

Again another area where I have some expertise - where is new development coming to Foxhall? The entire area is zoned for single family and none of it was changed in the recent Comp Plan update and there are no un-developed parcels but even if there were the underlying zoning is all for low and moderate density.

Yes there is always housing turnover but that turnover has already happened in a lot of neighborhoods and doesn't happen indefinitely.

Since you are ignorantly flailing around on here the Wisconsin Avenue corridor was just upzoned to high density AND has a bunch of lots that are primed for re-development and in fact two projects which are going to deliver almost 1000 new units in the next year.

But hey lets spend money on school capacity in a part of DC where no new housing is being built.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Look, I think the NIMBYs in foxhall are silly; we do need more schools and the new high school in that location immediately relieves Jackson-Reed by diverting rich families from Jackson-Reed and opening up room there. But Hardy rec is one of the least accessible sites in the city. Why not build another school in Volta Park, Jelleff, Guy Mason, Newark, Forest Hills, or Turtle Park. They Key/Mann axis is the least overcrowded part of Ward 3. A new school at guy mason or jelleff wouldn't annoy the stoddert parents. This site is some suburban no-mans land. There is a reason GDS got rid of their white elephant over there.

All of this. The Foxhall location is just bad bad bad. And no, I am not a Foxhall NIMBY. People simply won't be able to get there reasonable during Rush Hour.

Let's have some fun with Google Maps, shall we? Try the following steps:

1. Pick a random address in Ward 7 or 8 (I tried Randle Highlands because it seemed more or less central to neighborhoods east of the river)

2. Set "Arrive By" to 8:30am on a Monday (or any day of the school week)

3. Calculate travel times by car to get to the Hardy Rec Center and the the different potential Ward 3 sites the poster you responded to mentioned - these are: Volta Park, Jelleff, Guy Mason, Newark, Forest Hills, and Turtle Park

4. Do a ranking of the various rec centers by travel times to prove conclusively just how long it takes to get to this "least accessible site" versus the other most better situated sites . . .

Oh, but wait! What's that? Holy hell! Of those sites, the Hardy Rec Center - future site of Foxhall ES - is actually the quickest to get to of all of those listed from Randall Heights (bar Volta, with which it is tied for travel times at 18-35 mins).

Don't ever ever let the actual facts get in the way of your opinions, am I right? By all means, keep making stuff up. The NIMBYs can't get enough of it.

By car.

now try by metro

And if I gave you that, you’d be asking me about times by jet pack or something. Bus services to Foxhall / Palisades was cut due to the pandemic. What it is now won’t have much bearing on what it will be in a couple of years once the schools are open. The point is that Foxhall is not the remote enclave that the local NIMBYs want to think of it as and those who want schools built elsewhere want to project it as.

So you are basically saying that all of the students will need to be driven to the new schools, except for the precious few who live enough to be able to walk to it. How do you square that with the 500 set-aside OOB seats?

No. Not at all. That is a fairly extreme misreading. What the poster is saying is that Foxhall's transit connectivity now is bad because services will be cut due to COVID. But that there is scope for bus services to be added that will make it much easier / quicker to get to the area via transit. Adding a bus between the Rosslyn metro and Foxhall should be feasible for instance.

LOL - lots of the OOB student will be coming from VA! And the drive across the Key Bridge and thru Georgetown is so speedy!

You can keep plastering the lipstick on this pig but it is still a pig.

The transit options to Foxhall are terrible.

Sure you can increase the frequency of the D6 but it is still a 26 minute ride from Dupont Circle during the AM & PM rush hour and almost none of the OOB students will be coming from Dupont but there is no other logical place to tie in with other public transportation in DC. So it is 7 minutes on the Metro from Dupont to Tenleytown or we do a tie in with another form of transit and have kids with 60 minute commutes at best from other parts of DC.

There is also no direct way to walk/bike/take transit from Glover Park and driving is going to force parents onto Reservoir which is already a nightmare during the week. I don't think it is an exaggeration that for most families in Glover Park this school will be harder to get to.

If you're really LOLing, you're laughing at yourself.

Laughing that you don't even know that Foxhall is the *opposite* direction to Georgetown when coming off the Key Bridge.

Laughing that you don't seem to understand that the Blue, Orange, and Silver lines travel west to Rosslyn as well as east.

Laughing that you're willfully ignoring the now well-established fact that no one is planning to send students from Glover Park to Foxhall ES and that Stoddert is receiving a $20.5 million addition to accommodate existing students (but also, beside the point that it is, that you think there is no way to walk or bike between Glover Park and Foxhall).

This post is reminiscent of many a NIMBY tactic to sow total confusion. It's very difficult in any case you think anyone actually believes what you wrote above.

Have you ever been on a bus across Key Bridge at Rush hour in the morning from Rossylyn?

Have you ever seen OUTBOUND Canal Road in the mornings? These things don't move, and the left turn on to MacArthur is backed up ALL.THE.TIME.

You could be describing any intersection for any arterial road in the city at rush hour. Is the point that DCPS should only build schools next to Metro stations or that WMATA should build Metro stations next to all DCPS elementary schools?

The earlier poster showed that commuting times at rush hour from EOTR to Foxhall / MacArthur by car are less than those for other potential sites in Ward 3. The route runs via Rosslyn and across the Key Bridge. It’s perfectly feasible for WMATA to run a bus along the same route from Rosslyn to Foxhall / MacArthur. That bus is not going to take longer than cars following the same route and, if a dedicated bus lane is opened on Key Bridge as it should be, will be significantly quicker.

No one is here to argue that Foxhall / MacArthur are centrally located. They will primarily serve neighborhoods that are currently very far from their assigned elementary and high schools (much farther than for almost all other neighborhoods in DC). But the claim that these schools are being built in some “isolated enclave” inaccessible to OOB students is contradicted by actual data.

Foxhall NIMBYs are very happy to project their neighborhood as inaccessible if that perception will keep public school children out of their neighborhood. In service of the same goal, they also oppose infrastructure developments (like the redevelopment of the Palisades Trolley Trail or bus and bike lanes) that would make their neighborhood more accessible.

What is perhaps more curious is that there are others (assuming they aren’t NIMBYs in disguise) that echo the NIMBYs’ talking points, perhaps because they don’t like the idea of children across the city having more choice as to whether they can go to school.

The rest of us who can look at this objectively realize that adding these schools strengthens public education in DC and support them accordingly.

Actually no - going through Georgetown at rush hour (or any other time) really isn't like any other congested intersection in DC. The Key Bridge to anywhere (well Whitehurst isn't usually that bad) is awful even off off peak. It can seriously take 15-20 minutes during rush hour to go just a few blocks in Georgetown and you (or someone) on here is seriously suggesting DC students take the bus from Rosslyn so parents in Foxhall/Palisades can justify this boondoggle?!?

Foxhall is not simply "un-centrally located" - it is one of the hardest to reach corners of the city by all of the means we get around - traffic is terrible, transit is terrible and you really can't bike or walk there from anywhere else either and there is no way to improve any of those options aside from biking if the city fixes the Trolley Trail which is a big if. I don't think there is a HS (or MS) in DC that will be as hard to reach as this one but to justify it as many as half of the seats might need to go to OOB students?

BTW I'm not a NIMBY and don't even live in Foxhall (and think the FCCA people are nuts) but my kids are in the Deal/J-R feeder and this is a waste of DC resources that won't solve the problems for my kids while forcing more people to drive and create more traffic and waste more time and generate more pollution and carbon emissions.

For the umpteenth time, you do not need to go through Georgetown to get to Foxhall if coming off the Key Bridge or the Whitehurst Freeway (as you would if you are coming from most parts of the city). A right turn off either (through Georgetown) is very bad at almost any time of day, yes. But you are not turning right and the westward lanes of Canal Rd do not get congested until the late afternoon rush hour. This is entirely the reason why its faster to get to Foxhall ES and MacArthur HS from Wards 7 and 8 than it is to the other rec centers in Ward 3 that were mentioned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Look, I think the NIMBYs in foxhall are silly; we do need more schools and the new high school in that location immediately relieves Jackson-Reed by diverting rich families from Jackson-Reed and opening up room there. But Hardy rec is one of the least accessible sites in the city. Why not build another school in Volta Park, Jelleff, Guy Mason, Newark, Forest Hills, or Turtle Park. They Key/Mann axis is the least overcrowded part of Ward 3. A new school at guy mason or jelleff wouldn't annoy the stoddert parents. This site is some suburban no-mans land. There is a reason GDS got rid of their white elephant over there.

All of this. The Foxhall location is just bad bad bad. And no, I am not a Foxhall NIMBY. People simply won't be able to get there reasonable during Rush Hour.

Let's have some fun with Google Maps, shall we? Try the following steps:

1. Pick a random address in Ward 7 or 8 (I tried Randle Highlands because it seemed more or less central to neighborhoods east of the river)

2. Set "Arrive By" to 8:30am on a Monday (or any day of the school week)

3. Calculate travel times by car to get to the Hardy Rec Center and the the different potential Ward 3 sites the poster you responded to mentioned - these are: Volta Park, Jelleff, Guy Mason, Newark, Forest Hills, and Turtle Park

4. Do a ranking of the various rec centers by travel times to prove conclusively just how long it takes to get to this "least accessible site" versus the other most better situated sites . . .

Oh, but wait! What's that? Holy hell! Of those sites, the Hardy Rec Center - future site of Foxhall ES - is actually the quickest to get to of all of those listed from Randall Heights (bar Volta, with which it is tied for travel times at 18-35 mins).

Don't ever ever let the actual facts get in the way of your opinions, am I right? By all means, keep making stuff up. The NIMBYs can't get enough of it.

By car.

now try by metro

And if I gave you that, you’d be asking me about times by jet pack or something. Bus services to Foxhall / Palisades was cut due to the pandemic. What it is now won’t have much bearing on what it will be in a couple of years once the schools are open. The point is that Foxhall is not the remote enclave that the local NIMBYs want to think of it as and those who want schools built elsewhere want to project it as.

So you are basically saying that all of the students will need to be driven to the new schools, except for the precious few who live enough to be able to walk to it. How do you square that with the 500 set-aside OOB seats?

No. Not at all. That is a fairly extreme misreading. What the poster is saying is that Foxhall's transit connectivity now is bad because services will be cut due to COVID. But that there is scope for bus services to be added that will make it much easier / quicker to get to the area via transit. Adding a bus between the Rosslyn metro and Foxhall should be feasible for instance.

LOL - lots of the OOB student will be coming from VA! And the drive across the Key Bridge and thru Georgetown is so speedy!

You can keep plastering the lipstick on this pig but it is still a pig.

The transit options to Foxhall are terrible.

Sure you can increase the frequency of the D6 but it is still a 26 minute ride from Dupont Circle during the AM & PM rush hour and almost none of the OOB students will be coming from Dupont but there is no other logical place to tie in with other public transportation in DC. So it is 7 minutes on the Metro from Dupont to Tenleytown or we do a tie in with another form of transit and have kids with 60 minute commutes at best from other parts of DC.

There is also no direct way to walk/bike/take transit from Glover Park and driving is going to force parents onto Reservoir which is already a nightmare during the week. I don't think it is an exaggeration that for most families in Glover Park this school will be harder to get to.

If you're really LOLing, you're laughing at yourself.

Laughing that you don't even know that Foxhall is the *opposite* direction to Georgetown when coming off the Key Bridge.

Laughing that you don't seem to understand that the Blue, Orange, and Silver lines travel west to Rosslyn as well as east.

Laughing that you're willfully ignoring the now well-established fact that no one is planning to send students from Glover Park to Foxhall ES and that Stoddert is receiving a $20.5 million addition to accommodate existing students (but also, beside the point that it is, that you think there is no way to walk or bike between Glover Park and Foxhall).

This post is reminiscent of many a NIMBY tactic to sow total confusion. It's very difficult in any case you think anyone actually believes what you wrote above.

Have you ever been on a bus across Key Bridge at Rush hour in the morning from Rossylyn?

Have you ever seen OUTBOUND Canal Road in the mornings? These things don't move, and the left turn on to MacArthur is backed up ALL.THE.TIME.

You could be describing any intersection for any arterial road in the city at rush hour. Is the point that DCPS should only build schools next to Metro stations or that WMATA should build Metro stations next to all DCPS elementary schools?

The earlier poster showed that commuting times at rush hour from EOTR to Foxhall / MacArthur by car are less than those for other potential sites in Ward 3. The route runs via Rosslyn and across the Key Bridge. It’s perfectly feasible for WMATA to run a bus along the same route from Rosslyn to Foxhall / MacArthur. That bus is not going to take longer than cars following the same route and, if a dedicated bus lane is opened on Key Bridge as it should be, will be significantly quicker.

No one is here to argue that Foxhall / MacArthur are centrally located. They will primarily serve neighborhoods that are currently very far from their assigned elementary and high schools (much farther than for almost all other neighborhoods in DC). But the claim that these schools are being built in some “isolated enclave” inaccessible to OOB students is contradicted by actual data.

Foxhall NIMBYs are very happy to project their neighborhood as inaccessible if that perception will keep public school children out of their neighborhood. In service of the same goal, they also oppose infrastructure developments (like the redevelopment of the Palisades Trolley Trail or bus and bike lanes) that would make their neighborhood more accessible.

What is perhaps more curious is that there are others (assuming they aren’t NIMBYs in disguise) that echo the NIMBYs’ talking points, perhaps because they don’t like the idea of children across the city having more choice as to whether they can go to school.

The rest of us who can look at this objectively realize that adding these schools strengthens public education in DC and support them accordingly.

Actually no - going through Georgetown at rush hour (or any other time) really isn't like any other congested intersection in DC. The Key Bridge to anywhere (well Whitehurst isn't usually that bad) is awful even off off peak. It can seriously take 15-20 minutes during rush hour to go just a few blocks in Georgetown and you (or someone) on here is seriously suggesting DC students take the bus from Rosslyn so parents in Foxhall/Palisades can justify this boondoggle?!?

Foxhall is not simply "un-centrally located" - it is one of the hardest to reach corners of the city by all of the means we get around - traffic is terrible, transit is terrible and you really can't bike or walk there from anywhere else either and there is no way to improve any of those options aside from biking if the city fixes the Trolley Trail which is a big if. I don't think there is a HS (or MS) in DC that will be as hard to reach as this one but to justify it as many as half of the seats might need to go to OOB students?

BTW I'm not a NIMBY and don't even live in Foxhall (and think the FCCA people are nuts) but my kids are in the Deal/J-R feeder and this is a waste of DC resources that won't solve the problems for my kids while forcing more people to drive and create more traffic and waste more time and generate more pollution and carbon emissions.

For the umpteenth time, you do not need to go through Georgetown to get to Foxhall if coming off the Key Bridge or the Whitehurst Freeway (as you would if you are coming from most parts of the city). A right turn off either (through Georgetown) is very bad at almost any time of day, yes. But you are not turning right and the westward lanes of Canal Rd do not get congested until the late afternoon rush hour. This is entirely the reason why its faster to get to Foxhall ES and MacArthur HS from Wards 7 and 8 than it is to the other rec centers in Ward 3 that were mentioned.

Fine - everyone knows you don't need to go through the Georgetown commercial district to get to Foxhall but this is a meaningless distinction - its technically still Georgetown and as you just admitted the traffic is still terrible. But this entire debate is in response to the absurd suggestion that DC students take a shuttle from Rosslyn (in VA!) to get from a DC home to a DC school. Some parents, even from Wards 7 & 8, are going to drive - is there a Magic School bus they are going to take that is going to fly them thru the air over the congestion in Georgetown?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The rest of us who can look at this objectively realize that adding these schools strengthens public education in DC and support them accordingly.

Sure, but the equity issue for this particular school at this particular location is appallingly bad. Just own it.

m

There are many modest apartment buildings along the lower McArthur. Children from there will attend the new school, thus making school access more equitable. Schools serve primarily their neighborhoods. Students from other wards are usually the exception rather than the rule so their concerns should not be primary drivers of the new schools planning.

Also, Key hosts 6 trailers for its 4th and 5th graders and Stoddert will build an addition, but the pace of its growth, who knows, it may become overcrowded again soon.

The new Foxhall ES resolves the overcrowding problem at Key. That needs a solution, not everything has to revolve around equity! It will probably also ensure that families will have another family friendly neighborhood besides Glover Park, and help reduce or prevent future overcrowding at Stoddert.

OK but there is no additional development/population coming to the Palisades/McArthur corridor and sure Key is overcrowded but it is a small school relative to Janney, Murch & Lafayette. The population density is coming to the Wisconsin Avenue corridor and it is Hearst and Janney that are going to get a flood of new students and no amount of tinkering around the edges is going to move seats around to create capacity at those two schools.

Good job making sweeping statements about future development patterns that have little factual basis. You also apparently are oblivious to the fact that families with children can replace those without in the existing housing stock.

The fact that more schools are needed in other places as well does not mean that it Foxhall ES is not needed. And, per the DME, the city is looking for new properties that it can acquire to build schools to serve the JML communities.

Again another area where I have some expertise - where is new development coming to Foxhall? The entire area is zoned for single family and none of it was changed in the recent Comp Plan update and there are no un-developed parcels but even if there were the underlying zoning is all for low and moderate density.

Yes there is always housing turnover but that turnover has already happened in a lot of neighborhoods and doesn't happen indefinitely.

Since you are ignorantly flailing around on here the Wisconsin Avenue corridor was just upzoned to high density AND has a bunch of lots that are primed for re-development and in fact two projects which are going to deliver almost 1000 new units in the next year.

But hey lets spend money on school capacity in a part of DC where no new housing is being built.

They are spending money on school capacity in a part of DC which has a chronically overcrowded local public school (with students in Pre-K and very scarce PK4 spots) that is up to 1.5 miles from some of the families it serves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The rest of us who can look at this objectively realize that adding these schools strengthens public education in DC and support them accordingly.

Sure, but the equity issue for this particular school at this particular location is appallingly bad. Just own it.

m

There are many modest apartment buildings along the lower McArthur. Children from there will attend the new school, thus making school access more equitable. Schools serve primarily their neighborhoods. Students from other wards are usually the exception rather than the rule so their concerns should not be primary drivers of the new schools planning.

Also, Key hosts 6 trailers for its 4th and 5th graders and Stoddert will build an addition, but the pace of its growth, who knows, it may become overcrowded again soon.

The new Foxhall ES resolves the overcrowding problem at Key. That needs a solution, not everything has to revolve around equity! It will probably also ensure that families will have another family friendly neighborhood besides Glover Park, and help reduce or prevent future overcrowding at Stoddert.

OK but there is no additional development/population coming to the Palisades/McArthur corridor and sure Key is overcrowded but it is a small school relative to Janney, Murch & Lafayette. The population density is coming to the Wisconsin Avenue corridor and it is Hearst and Janney that are going to get a flood of new students and no amount of tinkering around the edges is going to move seats around to create capacity at those two schools.

Good job making sweeping statements about future development patterns that have little factual basis. You also apparently are oblivious to the fact that families with children can replace those without in the existing housing stock.

The fact that more schools are needed in other places as well does not mean that it Foxhall ES is not needed. And, per the DME, the city is looking for new properties that it can acquire to build schools to serve the JML communities.

Again another area where I have some expertise - where is new development coming to Foxhall? The entire area is zoned for single family and none of it was changed in the recent Comp Plan update and there are no un-developed parcels but even if there were the underlying zoning is all for low and moderate density.

Yes there is always housing turnover but that turnover has already happened in a lot of neighborhoods and doesn't happen indefinitely.

Since you are ignorantly flailing around on here the Wisconsin Avenue corridor was just upzoned to high density AND has a bunch of lots that are primed for re-development and in fact two projects which are going to deliver almost 1000 new units in the next year.

But hey lets spend money on school capacity in a part of DC where no new housing is being built.

They are spending money on school capacity in a part of DC which has a chronically overcrowded local public school (with students in Pre-K and very scarce PK4 spots) that is up to 1.5 miles from some of the families it serves.

Every single ES WOTP is bursting at the seams (or were pre-Covid) - Janney and Lafayette have already reduced Pre-K and have no PK4 spots at all - not sure it makes sense to scratch all of these various itches instead of first requiring Key to also reduce Pre-K.

But whatever - the ES isn't really a big deal one way or the other - not sure how they will fill it without also going OOB but it isn't that much money or students - it only becomes an issue outside of this narrow slice of DC if ES boundaries have to start being radically re-drawn to fill the seats. If I lived in Glover Park I'd be very concerned my walk to Stoddert is about to be replaced by a drive to this new school and all the sitting in traffic that would go with it.

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Look, I think the NIMBYs in foxhall are silly; we do need more schools and the new high school in that location immediately relieves Jackson-Reed by diverting rich families from Jackson-Reed and opening up room there. But Hardy rec is one of the least accessible sites in the city. Why not build another school in Volta Park, Jelleff, Guy Mason, Newark, Forest Hills, or Turtle Park. They Key/Mann axis is the least overcrowded part of Ward 3. A new school at guy mason or jelleff wouldn't annoy the stoddert parents. This site is some suburban no-mans land. There is a reason GDS got rid of their white elephant over there.

All of this. The Foxhall location is just bad bad bad. And no, I am not a Foxhall NIMBY. People simply won't be able to get there reasonable during Rush Hour.

Let's have some fun with Google Maps, shall we? Try the following steps:

1. Pick a random address in Ward 7 or 8 (I tried Randle Highlands because it seemed more or less central to neighborhoods east of the river)

2. Set "Arrive By" to 8:30am on a Monday (or any day of the school week)

3. Calculate travel times by car to get to the Hardy Rec Center and the the different potential Ward 3 sites the poster you responded to mentioned - these are: Volta Park, Jelleff, Guy Mason, Newark, Forest Hills, and Turtle Park

4. Do a ranking of the various rec centers by travel times to prove conclusively just how long it takes to get to this "least accessible site" versus the other most better situated sites . . .

Oh, but wait! What's that? Holy hell! Of those sites, the Hardy Rec Center - future site of Foxhall ES - is actually the quickest to get to of all of those listed from Randall Heights (bar Volta, with which it is tied for travel times at 18-35 mins).

Don't ever ever let the actual facts get in the way of your opinions, am I right? By all means, keep making stuff up. The NIMBYs can't get enough of it.

By car.

now try by metro

And if I gave you that, you’d be asking me about times by jet pack or something. Bus services to Foxhall / Palisades was cut due to the pandemic. What it is now won’t have much bearing on what it will be in a couple of years once the schools are open. The point is that Foxhall is not the remote enclave that the local NIMBYs want to think of it as and those who want schools built elsewhere want to project it as.

So you are basically saying that all of the students will need to be driven to the new schools, except for the precious few who live enough to be able to walk to it. How do you square that with the 500 set-aside OOB seats?

No. Not at all. That is a fairly extreme misreading. What the poster is saying is that Foxhall's transit connectivity now is bad because services will be cut due to COVID. But that there is scope for bus services to be added that will make it much easier / quicker to get to the area via transit. Adding a bus between the Rosslyn metro and Foxhall should be feasible for instance.

LOL - lots of the OOB student will be coming from VA! And the drive across the Key Bridge and thru Georgetown is so speedy!

You can keep plastering the lipstick on this pig but it is still a pig.

The transit options to Foxhall are terrible.

Sure you can increase the frequency of the D6 but it is still a 26 minute ride from Dupont Circle during the AM & PM rush hour and almost none of the OOB students will be coming from Dupont but there is no other logical place to tie in with other public transportation in DC. So it is 7 minutes on the Metro from Dupont to Tenleytown or we do a tie in with another form of transit and have kids with 60 minute commutes at best from other parts of DC.

There is also no direct way to walk/bike/take transit from Glover Park and driving is going to force parents onto Reservoir which is already a nightmare during the week. I don't think it is an exaggeration that for most families in Glover Park this school will be harder to get to.

If you're really LOLing, you're laughing at yourself.

Laughing that you don't even know that Foxhall is the *opposite* direction to Georgetown when coming off the Key Bridge.

Laughing that you don't seem to understand that the Blue, Orange, and Silver lines travel west to Rosslyn as well as east.

Laughing that you're willfully ignoring the now well-established fact that no one is planning to send students from Glover Park to Foxhall ES and that Stoddert is receiving a $20.5 million addition to accommodate existing students (but also, beside the point that it is, that you think there is no way to walk or bike between Glover Park and Foxhall).

This post is reminiscent of many a NIMBY tactic to sow total confusion. It's very difficult in any case you think anyone actually believes what you wrote above.

Have you ever been on a bus across Key Bridge at Rush hour in the morning from Rossylyn?

Have you ever seen OUTBOUND Canal Road in the mornings? These things don't move, and the left turn on to MacArthur is backed up ALL.THE.TIME.

You could be describing any intersection for any arterial road in the city at rush hour. Is the point that DCPS should only build schools next to Metro stations or that WMATA should build Metro stations next to all DCPS elementary schools?

The earlier poster showed that commuting times at rush hour from EOTR to Foxhall / MacArthur by car are less than those for other potential sites in Ward 3. The route runs via Rosslyn and across the Key Bridge. It’s perfectly feasible for WMATA to run a bus along the same route from Rosslyn to Foxhall / MacArthur. That bus is not going to take longer than cars following the same route and, if a dedicated bus lane is opened on Key Bridge as it should be, will be significantly quicker.

No one is here to argue that Foxhall / MacArthur are centrally located. They will primarily serve neighborhoods that are currently very far from their assigned elementary and high schools (much farther than for almost all other neighborhoods in DC). But the claim that these schools are being built in some “isolated enclave” inaccessible to OOB students is contradicted by actual data.

Foxhall NIMBYs are very happy to project their neighborhood as inaccessible if that perception will keep public school children out of their neighborhood. In service of the same goal, they also oppose infrastructure developments (like the redevelopment of the Palisades Trolley Trail or bus and bike lanes) that would make their neighborhood more accessible.

What is perhaps more curious is that there are others (assuming they aren’t NIMBYs in disguise) that echo the NIMBYs’ talking points, perhaps because they don’t like the idea of children across the city having more choice as to whether they can go to school.

The rest of us who can look at this objectively realize that adding these schools strengthens public education in DC and support them accordingly.

Actually no - going through Georgetown at rush hour (or any other time) really isn't like any other congested intersection in DC. The Key Bridge to anywhere (well Whitehurst isn't usually that bad) is awful even off off peak. It can seriously take 15-20 minutes during rush hour to go just a few blocks in Georgetown and you (or someone) on here is seriously suggesting DC students take the bus from Rosslyn so parents in Foxhall/Palisades can justify this boondoggle?!?

Foxhall is not simply "un-centrally located" - it is one of the hardest to reach corners of the city by all of the means we get around - traffic is terrible, transit is terrible and you really can't bike or walk there from anywhere else either and there is no way to improve any of those options aside from biking if the city fixes the Trolley Trail which is a big if. I don't think there is a HS (or MS) in DC that will be as hard to reach as this one but to justify it as many as half of the seats might need to go to OOB students?

BTW I'm not a NIMBY and don't even live in Foxhall (and think the FCCA people are nuts) but my kids are in the Deal/J-R feeder and this is a waste of DC resources that won't solve the problems for my kids while forcing more people to drive and create more traffic and waste more time and generate more pollution and carbon emissions.

For the umpteenth time, you do not need to go through Georgetown to get to Foxhall if coming off the Key Bridge or the Whitehurst Freeway (as you would if you are coming from most parts of the city). A right turn off either (through Georgetown) is very bad at almost any time of day, yes. But you are not turning right and the westward lanes of Canal Rd do not get congested until the late afternoon rush hour. This is entirely the reason why its faster to get to Foxhall ES and MacArthur HS from Wards 7 and 8 than it is to the other rec centers in Ward 3 that were mentioned.

Fine - everyone knows you don't need to go through the Georgetown commercial district to get to Foxhall but this is a meaningless distinction - its technically still Georgetown and as you just admitted the traffic is still terrible. But this entire debate is in response to the absurd suggestion that DC students take a shuttle from Rosslyn (in VA!) to get from a DC home to a DC school. Some parents, even from Wards 7 & 8, are going to drive - is there a Magic School bus they are going to take that is going to fly them thru the air over the congestion in Georgetown?

The distinction between M St and Canal Rd is "meaningless"? Either you have no idea what you are talking about or just being silly . . .

Let me recap the distinction to put an end to the attempted gaslighting:

1. Someone (maybe you) claimed that Foxhall was an "isolated enclave" (or words to that effect) and proposed a bunch of other rec centers in Ward that they asserted were more accessible relative to the rest of the city.

2. Another poster took the time to do some actual research and showed that this was patently false - it is faster to get from any points in Ward 7 and 8 to Foxhall by car during the morning rush hour than it is to any of the other rec centers that were supposedly not so isolated.

3. Yet another (maybe the one that claimed that Foxhall was isolated) pointed out that travel times were different by transit than by car, implying that it would be very difficult to get to Foxhall by transit.

4. Still yet another poster (maybe the one who did the research) acknowledged that, yes, it is difficult to get to Foxhall by transit currently as relevant services have been cut due to the pandemic, but pointed out that such services could be established and would not take significantly longer than it would take cars to travel the same distance across the Key Bridge and up to Foxhall and could be significantly faster with a dedicated bus lane on the Key Bridge.

5. Ergo, Foxhall is not the "isolated enclave" - relative to other potential sites in Ward 3 - that at least one person on here was claiming it to be.

I'll add something. You may be shocked to learn that dozens of students from Bolling AFB in Ward 8 attend Hyde-Addison ES in Georgetown. And how do they get there? Well, according to you they must be utilizing some fairly sophisticated military tech to get there. But, no, you'll be shocked to learn, they, to quote your mocking words, "take a shuttle . . . to get from a DC home to a DC school". Wow, right?

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Look, I think the NIMBYs in foxhall are silly; we do need more schools and the new high school in that location immediately relieves Jackson-Reed by diverting rich families from Jackson-Reed and opening up room there. But Hardy rec is one of the least accessible sites in the city. Why not build another school in Volta Park, Jelleff, Guy Mason, Newark, Forest Hills, or Turtle Park. They Key/Mann axis is the least overcrowded part of Ward 3. A new school at guy mason or jelleff wouldn't annoy the stoddert parents. This site is some suburban no-mans land. There is a reason GDS got rid of their white elephant over there.

All of this. The Foxhall location is just bad bad bad. And no, I am not a Foxhall NIMBY. People simply won't be able to get there reasonable during Rush Hour.

Let's have some fun with Google Maps, shall we? Try the following steps:

1. Pick a random address in Ward 7 or 8 (I tried Randle Highlands because it seemed more or less central to neighborhoods east of the river)

2. Set "Arrive By" to 8:30am on a Monday (or any day of the school week)

3. Calculate travel times by car to get to the Hardy Rec Center and the the different potential Ward 3 sites the poster you responded to mentioned - these are: Volta Park, Jelleff, Guy Mason, Newark, Forest Hills, and Turtle Park

4. Do a ranking of the various rec centers by travel times to prove conclusively just how long it takes to get to this "least accessible site" versus the other most better situated sites . . .

Oh, but wait! What's that? Holy hell! Of those sites, the Hardy Rec Center - future site of Foxhall ES - is actually the quickest to get to of all of those listed from Randall Heights (bar Volta, with which it is tied for travel times at 18-35 mins).

Don't ever ever let the actual facts get in the way of your opinions, am I right? By all means, keep making stuff up. The NIMBYs can't get enough of it.

By car.

now try by metro

And if I gave you that, you’d be asking me about times by jet pack or something. Bus services to Foxhall / Palisades was cut due to the pandemic. What it is now won’t have much bearing on what it will be in a couple of years once the schools are open. The point is that Foxhall is not the remote enclave that the local NIMBYs want to think of it as and those who want schools built elsewhere want to project it as.

So you are basically saying that all of the students will need to be driven to the new schools, except for the precious few who live enough to be able to walk to it. How do you square that with the 500 set-aside OOB seats?

No. Not at all. That is a fairly extreme misreading. What the poster is saying is that Foxhall's transit connectivity now is bad because services will be cut due to COVID. But that there is scope for bus services to be added that will make it much easier / quicker to get to the area via transit. Adding a bus between the Rosslyn metro and Foxhall should be feasible for instance.

LOL - lots of the OOB student will be coming from VA! And the drive across the Key Bridge and thru Georgetown is so speedy!

You can keep plastering the lipstick on this pig but it is still a pig.

The transit options to Foxhall are terrible.

Sure you can increase the frequency of the D6 but it is still a 26 minute ride from Dupont Circle during the AM & PM rush hour and almost none of the OOB students will be coming from Dupont but there is no other logical place to tie in with other public transportation in DC. So it is 7 minutes on the Metro from Dupont to Tenleytown or we do a tie in with another form of transit and have kids with 60 minute commutes at best from other parts of DC.

There is also no direct way to walk/bike/take transit from Glover Park and driving is going to force parents onto Reservoir which is already a nightmare during the week. I don't think it is an exaggeration that for most families in Glover Park this school will be harder to get to.

If you're really LOLing, you're laughing at yourself.

Laughing that you don't even know that Foxhall is the *opposite* direction to Georgetown when coming off the Key Bridge.

Laughing that you don't seem to understand that the Blue, Orange, and Silver lines travel west to Rosslyn as well as east.

Laughing that you're willfully ignoring the now well-established fact that no one is planning to send students from Glover Park to Foxhall ES and that Stoddert is receiving a $20.5 million addition to accommodate existing students (but also, beside the point that it is, that you think there is no way to walk or bike between Glover Park and Foxhall).

This post is reminiscent of many a NIMBY tactic to sow total confusion. It's very difficult in any case you think anyone actually believes what you wrote above.

Have you ever been on a bus across Key Bridge at Rush hour in the morning from Rossylyn?

Have you ever seen OUTBOUND Canal Road in the mornings? These things don't move, and the left turn on to MacArthur is backed up ALL.THE.TIME.

You could be describing any intersection for any arterial road in the city at rush hour. Is the point that DCPS should only build schools next to Metro stations or that WMATA should build Metro stations next to all DCPS elementary schools?

The earlier poster showed that commuting times at rush hour from EOTR to Foxhall / MacArthur by car are less than those for other potential sites in Ward 3. The route runs via Rosslyn and across the Key Bridge. It’s perfectly feasible for WMATA to run a bus along the same route from Rosslyn to Foxhall / MacArthur. That bus is not going to take longer than cars following the same route and, if a dedicated bus lane is opened on Key Bridge as it should be, will be significantly quicker.

No one is here to argue that Foxhall / MacArthur are centrally located. They will primarily serve neighborhoods that are currently very far from their assigned elementary and high schools (much farther than for almost all other neighborhoods in DC). But the claim that these schools are being built in some “isolated enclave” inaccessible to OOB students is contradicted by actual data.

Foxhall NIMBYs are very happy to project their neighborhood as inaccessible if that perception will keep public school children out of their neighborhood. In service of the same goal, they also oppose infrastructure developments (like the redevelopment of the Palisades Trolley Trail or bus and bike lanes) that would make their neighborhood more accessible.

What is perhaps more curious is that there are others (assuming they aren’t NIMBYs in disguise) that echo the NIMBYs’ talking points, perhaps because they don’t like the idea of children across the city having more choice as to whether they can go to school.

The rest of us who can look at this objectively realize that adding these schools strengthens public education in DC and support them accordingly.

Actually no - going through Georgetown at rush hour (or any other time) really isn't like any other congested intersection in DC. The Key Bridge to anywhere (well Whitehurst isn't usually that bad) is awful even off off peak. It can seriously take 15-20 minutes during rush hour to go just a few blocks in Georgetown and you (or someone) on here is seriously suggesting DC students take the bus from Rosslyn so parents in Foxhall/Palisades can justify this boondoggle?!?

Foxhall is not simply "un-centrally located" - it is one of the hardest to reach corners of the city by all of the means we get around - traffic is terrible, transit is terrible and you really can't bike or walk there from anywhere else either and there is no way to improve any of those options aside from biking if the city fixes the Trolley Trail which is a big if. I don't think there is a HS (or MS) in DC that will be as hard to reach as this one but to justify it as many as half of the seats might need to go to OOB students?

BTW I'm not a NIMBY and don't even live in Foxhall (and think the FCCA people are nuts) but my kids are in the Deal/J-R feeder and this is a waste of DC resources that won't solve the problems for my kids while forcing more people to drive and create more traffic and waste more time and generate more pollution and carbon emissions.

For the umpteenth time, you do not need to go through Georgetown to get to Foxhall if coming off the Key Bridge or the Whitehurst Freeway (as you would if you are coming from most parts of the city). A right turn off either (through Georgetown) is very bad at almost any time of day, yes. But you are not turning right and the westward lanes of Canal Rd do not get congested until the late afternoon rush hour. This is entirely the reason why its faster to get to Foxhall ES and MacArthur HS from Wards 7 and 8 than it is to the other rec centers in Ward 3 that were mentioned.

Fine - everyone knows you don't need to go through the Georgetown commercial district to get to Foxhall but this is a meaningless distinction - its technically still Georgetown and as you just admitted the traffic is still terrible. But this entire debate is in response to the absurd suggestion that DC students take a shuttle from Rosslyn (in VA!) to get from a DC home to a DC school. Some parents, even from Wards 7 & 8, are going to drive - is there a Magic School bus they are going to take that is going to fly them thru the air over the congestion in Georgetown?

The distinction between M St and Canal Rd is "meaningless"? Either you have no idea what you are talking about or just being silly . . .

Let me recap the distinction to put an end to the attempted gaslighting:

1. Someone (maybe you) claimed that Foxhall was an "isolated enclave" (or words to that effect) and proposed a bunch of other rec centers in Ward that they asserted were more accessible relative to the rest of the city.

2. Another poster took the time to do some actual research and showed that this was patently false - it is faster to get from any points in Ward 7 and 8 to Foxhall by car during the morning rush hour than it is to any of the other rec centers that were supposedly not so isolated.

3. Yet another (maybe the one that claimed that Foxhall was isolated) pointed out that travel times were different by transit than by car, implying that it would be very difficult to get to Foxhall by transit.

4. Still yet another poster (maybe the one who did the research) acknowledged that, yes, it is difficult to get to Foxhall by transit currently as relevant services have been cut due to the pandemic, but pointed out that such services could be established and would not take significantly longer than it would take cars to travel the same distance across the Key Bridge and up to Foxhall and could be significantly faster with a dedicated bus lane on the Key Bridge.

5. Ergo, Foxhall is not the "isolated enclave" - relative to other potential sites in Ward 3 - that at least one person on here was claiming it to be.

I'll add something. You may be shocked to learn that dozens of students from Bolling AFB in Ward 8 attend Hyde-Addison ES in Georgetown. And how do they get there? Well, according to you they must be utilizing some fairly sophisticated military tech to get there. But, no, you'll be shocked to learn, they, to quote your mocking words, "take a shuttle . . . to get from a DC home to a DC school". Wow, right?

And that shuttle goes via Virginia. I guess it's not surprising that there are those on here who have never been to anywhere east of the river and are so ignorant of the city's geography that they don't understand that it is often faster to go via Arlington to get from points east of the river (and some points west of the river) to points west of the park rather than driving right through the middle of the city.

[Anonymous]

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The rest of us who can look at this objectively realize that adding these schools strengthens public education in DC and support them accordingly.

Sure, but the equity issue for this particular school at this particular location is appallingly bad. Just own it.

m

There are many modest apartment buildings along the lower McArthur. Children from there will attend the new school, thus making school access more equitable. Schools serve primarily their neighborhoods. Students from other wards are usually the exception rather than the rule so their concerns should not be primary drivers of the new schools planning.

Also, Key hosts 6 trailers for its 4th and 5th graders and Stoddert will build an addition, but the pace of its growth, who knows, it may become overcrowded again soon.

The new Foxhall ES resolves the overcrowding problem at Key. That needs a solution, not everything has to revolve around equity! It will probably also ensure that families will have another family friendly neighborhood besides Glover Park, and help reduce or prevent future overcrowding at Stoddert.

OK but there is no additional development/population coming to the Palisades/McArthur corridor and sure Key is overcrowded but it is a small school relative to Janney, Murch & Lafayette. The population density is coming to the Wisconsin Avenue corridor and it is Hearst and Janney that are going to get a flood of new students and no amount of tinkering around the edges is going to move seats around to create capacity at those two schools.

Good job making sweeping statements about future development patterns that have little factual basis. You also apparently are oblivious to the fact that families with children can replace those without in the existing housing stock.

The fact that more schools are needed in other places as well does not mean that it Foxhall ES is not needed. And, per the DME, the city is looking for new properties that it can acquire to build schools to serve the JML communities.

Again another area where I have some expertise - where is new development coming to Foxhall? The entire area is zoned for single family and none of it was changed in the recent Comp Plan update and there are no un-developed parcels but even if there were the underlying zoning is all for low and moderate density.

Yes there is always housing turnover but that turnover has already happened in a lot of neighborhoods and doesn't happen indefinitely.

Since you are ignorantly flailing around on here the Wisconsin Avenue corridor was just upzoned to high density AND has a bunch of lots that are primed for re-development and in fact two projects which are going to deliver almost 1000 new units in the next year.

But hey lets spend money on school capacity in a part of DC where no new housing is being built.

They are spending money on school capacity in a part of DC which has a chronically overcrowded local public school (with students in Pre-K and very scarce PK4 spots) that is up to 1.5 miles from some of the families it serves.

Every single ES WOTP is bursting at the seams (or were pre-Covid) - Janney and Lafayette have already reduced Pre-K and have no PK4 spots at all - not sure it makes sense to scratch all of these various itches instead of first requiring Key to also reduce Pre-K.

But whatever - the ES isn't really a big deal one way or the other - not sure how they will fill it without also going OOB but it isn't that much money or students - it only becomes an issue outside of this narrow slice of DC if ES boundaries have to start being radically re-drawn to fill the seats. If I lived in Glover Park I'd be very concerned my walk to Stoddert is about to be replaced by a drive to this new school and all the sitting in traffic that would go with it.

Every glover park family affected will airbnb an apartment or hotel room for a month to stay IB (and get some renovations done).

[Anonymous]

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The rest of us who can look at this objectively realize that adding these schools strengthens public education in DC and support them accordingly.

Sure, but the equity issue for this particular school at this particular location is appallingly bad. Just own it.

m

There are many modest apartment buildings along the lower McArthur. Children from there will attend the new school, thus making school access more equitable. Schools serve primarily their neighborhoods. Students from other wards are usually the exception rather than the rule so their concerns should not be primary drivers of the new schools planning.

Also, Key hosts 6 trailers for its 4th and 5th graders and Stoddert will build an addition, but the pace of its growth, who knows, it may become overcrowded again soon.

The new Foxhall ES resolves the overcrowding problem at Key. That needs a solution, not everything has to revolve around equity! It will probably also ensure that families will have another family friendly neighborhood besides Glover Park, and help reduce or prevent future overcrowding at Stoddert.

OK but there is no additional development/population coming to the Palisades/McArthur corridor and sure Key is overcrowded but it is a small school relative to Janney, Murch & Lafayette. The population density is coming to the Wisconsin Avenue corridor and it is Hearst and Janney that are going to get a flood of new students and no amount of tinkering around the edges is going to move seats around to create capacity at those two schools.

Good job making sweeping statements about future development patterns that have little factual basis. You also apparently are oblivious to the fact that families with children can replace those without in the existing housing stock.

The fact that more schools are needed in other places as well does not mean that it Foxhall ES is not needed. And, per the DME, the city is looking for new properties that it can acquire to build schools to serve the JML communities.

Again another area where I have some expertise - where is new development coming to Foxhall? The entire area is zoned for single family and none of it was changed in the recent Comp Plan update and there are no un-developed parcels but even if there were the underlying zoning is all for low and moderate density.

Yes there is always housing turnover but that turnover has already happened in a lot of neighborhoods and doesn't happen indefinitely.

Since you are ignorantly flailing around on here the Wisconsin Avenue corridor was just upzoned to high density AND has a bunch of lots that are primed for re-development and in fact two projects which are going to deliver almost 1000 new units in the next year.

But hey lets spend money on school capacity in a part of DC where no new housing is being built.

They are spending money on school capacity in a part of DC which has a chronically overcrowded local public school (with students in Pre-K and very scarce PK4 spots) that is up to 1.5 miles from some of the families it serves.

Every single ES WOTP is bursting at the seams (or were pre-Covid) - Janney and Lafayette have already reduced Pre-K and have no PK4 spots at all - not sure it makes sense to scratch all of these various itches instead of first requiring Key to also reduce Pre-K.

But whatever - the ES isn't really a big deal one way or the other - not sure how they will fill it without also going OOB but it isn't that much money or students - it only becomes an issue outside of this narrow slice of DC if ES boundaries have to start being radically re-drawn to fill the seats. If I lived in Glover Park I'd be very concerned my walk to Stoddert is about to be replaced by a drive to this new school and all the sitting in traffic that would go with it.

Janney has no PK4 spots at all? No. 57 spots .= 0 spots: https://www.myschooldc.org/schools/profile/48. Lafayette has no PK4 spots at all? No. 38 spots .= 0 spots: https://www.myschooldc.org/schools/profile/57. They are in the same boat with Pre-K as Key (39 spots).

The differences are that Lafayette was offered a solution to their overcrowding, which was rejected by the school community (allegedly, per the mayor), and that 4th and 5th graders at Key are in trailers because there is no space in the main building to accommodate them.

It can well be filled without going OOB, but the city will want a decent chunk of OOB students anyway (just as in Hyde-Addison). The CWG showed that it can be entirely IB with current enrollment numbers.

[Anonymous]

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The rest of us who can look at this objectively realize that adding these schools strengthens public education in DC and support them accordingly.

Sure, but the equity issue for this particular school at this particular location is appallingly bad. Just own it.

m

There are many modest apartment buildings along the lower McArthur. Children from there will attend the new school, thus making school access more equitable. Schools serve primarily their neighborhoods. Students from other wards are usually the exception rather than the rule so their concerns should not be primary drivers of the new schools planning.

Also, Key hosts 6 trailers for its 4th and 5th graders and Stoddert will build an addition, but the pace of its growth, who knows, it may become overcrowded again soon.

The new Foxhall ES resolves the overcrowding problem at Key. That needs a solution, not everything has to revolve around equity! It will probably also ensure that families will have another family friendly neighborhood besides Glover Park, and help reduce or prevent future overcrowding at Stoddert.

OK but there is no additional development/population coming to the Palisades/McArthur corridor and sure Key is overcrowded but it is a small school relative to Janney, Murch & Lafayette. The population density is coming to the Wisconsin Avenue corridor and it is Hearst and Janney that are going to get a flood of new students and no amount of tinkering around the edges is going to move seats around to create capacity at those two schools.

Good job making sweeping statements about future development patterns that have little factual basis. You also apparently are oblivious to the fact that families with children can replace those without in the existing housing stock.

The fact that more schools are needed in other places as well does not mean that it Foxhall ES is not needed. And, per the DME, the city is looking for new properties that it can acquire to build schools to serve the JML communities.

Again another area where I have some expertise - where is new development coming to Foxhall? The entire area is zoned for single family and none of it was changed in the recent Comp Plan update and there are no un-developed parcels but even if there were the underlying zoning is all for low and moderate density.

Yes there is always housing turnover but that turnover has already happened in a lot of neighborhoods and doesn't happen indefinitely.

Since you are ignorantly flailing around on here the Wisconsin Avenue corridor was just upzoned to high density AND has a bunch of lots that are primed for re-development and in fact two projects which are going to deliver almost 1000 new units in the next year.

But hey lets spend money on school capacity in a part of DC where no new housing is being built.

They are spending money on school capacity in a part of DC which has a chronically overcrowded local public school (with students in Pre-K and very scarce PK4 spots) that is up to 1.5 miles from some of the families it serves.

Every single ES WOTP is bursting at the seams (or were pre-Covid) - Janney and Lafayette have already reduced Pre-K and have no PK4 spots at all - not sure it makes sense to scratch all of these various itches instead of first requiring Key to also reduce Pre-K.

But whatever - the ES isn't really a big deal one way or the other - not sure how they will fill it without also going OOB but it isn't that much money or students - it only becomes an issue outside of this narrow slice of DC if ES boundaries have to start being radically re-drawn to fill the seats. If I lived in Glover Park I'd be very concerned my walk to Stoddert is about to be replaced by a drive to this new school and all the sitting in traffic that would go with it.

Every glover park family affected will airbnb an apartment or hotel room for a month to stay IB (and get some renovations done).

The GP families will never be sent to Foxhall ES. That's been well-established.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The rest of us who can look at this objectively realize that adding these schools strengthens public education in DC and support them accordingly.

Sure, but the equity issue for this particular school at this particular location is appallingly bad. Just own it.

m

There are many modest apartment buildings along the lower McArthur. Children from there will attend the new school, thus making school access more equitable. Schools serve primarily their neighborhoods. Students from other wards are usually the exception rather than the rule so their concerns should not be primary drivers of the new schools planning.

Also, Key hosts 6 trailers for its 4th and 5th graders and Stoddert will build an addition, but the pace of its growth, who knows, it may become overcrowded again soon.

The new Foxhall ES resolves the overcrowding problem at Key. That needs a solution, not everything has to revolve around equity! It will probably also ensure that families will have another family friendly neighborhood besides Glover Park, and help reduce or prevent future overcrowding at Stoddert.

OK but there is no additional development/population coming to the Palisades/McArthur corridor and sure Key is overcrowded but it is a small school relative to Janney, Murch & Lafayette. The population density is coming to the Wisconsin Avenue corridor and it is Hearst and Janney that are going to get a flood of new students and no amount of tinkering around the edges is going to move seats around to create capacity at those two schools.

Good job making sweeping statements about future development patterns that have little factual basis. You also apparently are oblivious to the fact that families with children can replace those without in the existing housing stock.

The fact that more schools are needed in other places as well does not mean that it Foxhall ES is not needed. And, per the DME, the city is looking for new properties that it can acquire to build schools to serve the JML communities.

Again another area where I have some expertise - where is new development coming to Foxhall? The entire area is zoned for single family and none of it was changed in the recent Comp Plan update and there are no un-developed parcels but even if there were the underlying zoning is all for low and moderate density.

Yes there is always housing turnover but that turnover has already happened in a lot of neighborhoods and doesn't happen indefinitely.

Since you are ignorantly flailing around on here the Wisconsin Avenue corridor was just upzoned to high density AND has a bunch of lots that are primed for re-development and in fact two projects which are going to deliver almost 1000 new units in the next year.

But hey lets spend money on school capacity in a part of DC where no new housing is being built.

They are spending money on school capacity in a part of DC which has a chronically overcrowded local public school (with students in Pre-K and very scarce PK4 spots) that is up to 1.5 miles from some of the families it serves.

Every single ES WOTP is bursting at the seams (or were pre-Covid) - Janney and Lafayette have already reduced Pre-K and have no PK4 spots at all - not sure it makes sense to scratch all of these various itches instead of first requiring Key to also reduce Pre-K.

But whatever - the ES isn't really a big deal one way or the other - not sure how they will fill it without also going OOB but it isn't that much money or students - it only becomes an issue outside of this narrow slice of DC if ES boundaries have to start being radically re-drawn to fill the seats. If I lived in Glover Park I'd be very concerned my walk to Stoddert is about to be replaced by a drive to this new school and all the sitting in traffic that would go with it.

Janney has no PK4 spots at all? No. 57 spots .= 0 spots: https://www.myschooldc.org/schools/profile/48. Lafayette has no PK4 spots at all? No. 38 spots .= 0 spots: https://www.myschooldc.org/schools/profile/57. They are in the same boat with Pre-K as Key (39 spots).

The differences are that Lafayette was offered a solution to their overcrowding, which was rejected by the school community (allegedly, per the mayor), and that 4th and 5th graders at Key are in trailers because there is no space in the main building to accommodate them.

It can well be filled without going OOB, but the city will want a decent chunk of OOB students anyway (just as in Hyde-Addison). The CWG showed that it can be entirely IB with current enrollment numbers.

Only fillable by having Stoddert students drive instead of walk to school. (Walking through the park on hilly, muddy, and unimproved trails in the early morning is not a solution)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The rest of us who can look at this objectively realize that adding these schools strengthens public education in DC and support them accordingly.

Sure, but the equity issue for this particular school at this particular location is appallingly bad. Just own it.

m

There are many modest apartment buildings along the lower McArthur. Children from there will attend the new school, thus making school access more equitable. Schools serve primarily their neighborhoods. Students from other wards are usually the exception rather than the rule so their concerns should not be primary drivers of the new schools planning.

Also, Key hosts 6 trailers for its 4th and 5th graders and Stoddert will build an addition, but the pace of its growth, who knows, it may become overcrowded again soon.

The new Foxhall ES resolves the overcrowding problem at Key. That needs a solution, not everything has to revolve around equity! It will probably also ensure that families will have another family friendly neighborhood besides Glover Park, and help reduce or prevent future overcrowding at Stoddert.

OK but there is no additional development/population coming to the Palisades/McArthur corridor and sure Key is overcrowded but it is a small school relative to Janney, Murch & Lafayette. The population density is coming to the Wisconsin Avenue corridor and it is Hearst and Janney that are going to get a flood of new students and no amount of tinkering around the edges is going to move seats around to create capacity at those two schools.

Good job making sweeping statements about future development patterns that have little factual basis. You also apparently are oblivious to the fact that families with children can replace those without in the existing housing stock.

The fact that more schools are needed in other places as well does not mean that it Foxhall ES is not needed. And, per the DME, the city is looking for new properties that it can acquire to build schools to serve the JML communities.

Again another area where I have some expertise - where is new development coming to Foxhall? The entire area is zoned for single family and none of it was changed in the recent Comp Plan update and there are no un-developed parcels but even if there were the underlying zoning is all for low and moderate density.

Yes there is always housing turnover but that turnover has already happened in a lot of neighborhoods and doesn't happen indefinitely.

Since you are ignorantly flailing around on here the Wisconsin Avenue corridor was just upzoned to high density AND has a bunch of lots that are primed for re-development and in fact two projects which are going to deliver almost 1000 new units in the next year.

But hey lets spend money on school capacity in a part of DC where no new housing is being built.

They are spending money on school capacity in a part of DC which has a chronically overcrowded local public school (with students in Pre-K and very scarce PK4 spots) that is up to 1.5 miles from some of the families it serves.

Every single ES WOTP is bursting at the seams (or were pre-Covid) - Janney and Lafayette have already reduced Pre-K and have no PK4 spots at all - not sure it makes sense to scratch all of these various itches instead of first requiring Key to also reduce Pre-K.

But whatever - the ES isn't really a big deal one way or the other - not sure how they will fill it without also going OOB but it isn't that much money or students - it only becomes an issue outside of this narrow slice of DC if ES boundaries have to start being radically re-drawn to fill the seats. If I lived in Glover Park I'd be very concerned my walk to Stoddert is about to be replaced by a drive to this new school and all the sitting in traffic that would go with it.

Every glover park family affected will airbnb an apartment or hotel room for a month to stay IB (and get some renovations done).

The GP families will never be sent to Foxhall ES. That's been well-established.

So DCPS is building an entire new school because Key has a couple of trailers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The rest of us who can look at this objectively realize that adding these schools strengthens public education in DC and support them accordingly.

Sure, but the equity issue for this particular school at this particular location is appallingly bad. Just own it.

m

There are many modest apartment buildings along the lower McArthur. Children from there will attend the new school, thus making school access more equitable. Schools serve primarily their neighborhoods. Students from other wards are usually the exception rather than the rule so their concerns should not be primary drivers of the new schools planning.

Also, Key hosts 6 trailers for its 4th and 5th graders and Stoddert will build an addition, but the pace of its growth, who knows, it may become overcrowded again soon.

The new Foxhall ES resolves the overcrowding problem at Key. That needs a solution, not everything has to revolve around equity! It will probably also ensure that families will have another family friendly neighborhood besides Glover Park, and help reduce or prevent future overcrowding at Stoddert.

OK but there is no additional development/population coming to the Palisades/McArthur corridor and sure Key is overcrowded but it is a small school relative to Janney, Murch & Lafayette. The population density is coming to the Wisconsin Avenue corridor and it is Hearst and Janney that are going to get a flood of new students and no amount of tinkering around the edges is going to move seats around to create capacity at those two schools.

Good job making sweeping statements about future development patterns that have little factual basis. You also apparently are oblivious to the fact that families with children can replace those without in the existing housing stock.

The fact that more schools are needed in other places as well does not mean that it Foxhall ES is not needed. And, per the DME, the city is looking for new properties that it can acquire to build schools to serve the JML communities.

Again another area where I have some expertise - where is new development coming to Foxhall? The entire area is zoned for single family and none of it was changed in the recent Comp Plan update and there are no un-developed parcels but even if there were the underlying zoning is all for low and moderate density.

Yes there is always housing turnover but that turnover has already happened in a lot of neighborhoods and doesn't happen indefinitely.

Since you are ignorantly flailing around on here the Wisconsin Avenue corridor was just upzoned to high density AND has a bunch of lots that are primed for re-development and in fact two projects which are going to deliver almost 1000 new units in the next year.

But hey lets spend money on school capacity in a part of DC where no new housing is being built.

They are spending money on school capacity in a part of DC which has a chronically overcrowded local public school (with students in Pre-K and very scarce PK4 spots) that is up to 1.5 miles from some of the families it serves.

Every single ES WOTP is bursting at the seams (or were pre-Covid) - Janney and Lafayette have already reduced Pre-K and have no PK4 spots at all - not sure it makes sense to scratch all of these various itches instead of first requiring Key to also reduce Pre-K.

But whatever - the ES isn't really a big deal one way or the other - not sure how they will fill it without also going OOB but it isn't that much money or students - it only becomes an issue outside of this narrow slice of DC if ES boundaries have to start being radically re-drawn to fill the seats. If I lived in Glover Park I'd be very concerned my walk to Stoddert is about to be replaced by a drive to this new school and all the sitting in traffic that would go with it.

Every glover park family affected will airbnb an apartment or hotel room for a month to stay IB (and get some renovations done).

The GP families will never be sent to Foxhall ES. That's been well-established.

So DCPS is building an entire new school because Key has a couple of trailers?

6