Midwife charged in DC? Karen Carr, CPM...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is just a sad, sad story. I don't think there is a more respected midwife in the Baltimore/DC area than Karen. Every day our children face risks, possible dangerous situations... we as the parents have to choose what's best for them. Time after time home birth has been shown to have the same infant mortality rate as hospital births, but a much lower rate of complications. Overall, it's far superior for the mother and baby. Countless babies are born in this area every month who are in some way touched by Karen's excellent skill as a midwife. My own midwife learned from Karen.

The government has no business whatsoever in licensing midwives. If a woman thinks she's making the best decision by having her baby at home, then as the one who made the informed choice, she should stand by her decision. My heart aches for the family who lost this baby but it's important to remember 1: the family knew the risks associated with the birth 2: tragically sometimes things like this happen. Hospitals aren't exempt and anyone who thinks they are needs to check their facts. Licensing does not stop a baby from dying, nor does it make things "safer". What would these parents have done if the mother had gone to the hospital for c-section and the mother died from operation complications, or what if the baby contracted MRSA and died? No thank you, I don't need the government to be my nanny and walk me from birth through death.

Are you kidding me? Why shouldn't the government license midwives? Birth IS a medical procedure and all b/c it is also a natural procedure doesn't mean that the individuals attending the birth and giving medical advice/expertise shouldn't be licensed. So many professions are licensed - professions where the outcome - even the worse case scenario - is not life and death. It is beyond pompous to think that midwives should be exempt from licensing b/c us women can make our own birthing choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The sad truth of modern-day obstetrics is not that there are thousands of empowered, educated patients out there advocating for their needs and unable to have them met. Instead, it's a largely uneducated group of consumers who care more about what car they drive or what new iPhone model they buy over educating themselves about the birth process. When you have teen girls having thier 3rd or 4th baby by age 20 you can't exactly blame the doctors and nurses because she didn't go to her Bradley class and get all empowered about birth. I'm sure she and her children are merely trying to survive. Or is it the doctors fault too because she has no interest in birth spacing or using family planning? Where does the buck stop? And why are hosptials the proverbial "dumping ground" for all negative outcomes and/or failed homebirths? Just something for people to chew on...

You know what? All b/c some of us CHOOSE to birth at a hospital WITH AN EPIDURAL (the horror!) does not mean we are a "largely uneducate group of consumers who care more about what car they drive or what new iPhone model they buy over educating themselves about the birth process". It is just down right insulting for you to belittle OUR CHOICE OF WHERE AND HOW WE BIRTH. How do you expect us (the stupid women who birth in a hospital and get an epidural) to respect YOUR choices if you demean ours so readily?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is just a sad, sad story. I don't think there is a more respected midwife in the Baltimore/DC area than Karen. Every day our children face risks, possible dangerous situations... we as the parents have to choose what's best for them. Time after time home birth has been shown to have the same infant mortality rate as hospital births, but a much lower rate of complications. Overall, it's far superior for the mother and baby. Countless babies are born in this area every month who are in some way touched by Karen's excellent skill as a midwife. My own midwife learned from Karen.

The government has no business whatsoever in licensing midwives. If a woman thinks she's making the best decision by having her baby at home, then as the one who made the informed choice, she should stand by her decision. My heart aches for the family who lost this baby but it's important to remember 1: the family knew the risks associated with the birth 2: tragically sometimes things like this happen. Hospitals aren't exempt and anyone who thinks they are needs to check their facts. Licensing does not stop a baby from dying, nor does it make things "safer". What would these parents have done if the mother had gone to the hospital for c-section and the mother died from operation complications, or what if the baby contracted MRSA and died? No thank you, I don't need the government to be my nanny and walk me from birth through death.

Are you kidding me? Why shouldn't the government license midwives? Birth IS a medical procedure and all b/c it is also a natural procedure doesn't mean that the individuals attending the birth and giving medical advice/expertise shouldn't be licensed. So many professions are licensed - professions where the outcome - even the worse case scenario - is not life and death. It is beyond pompous to think that midwives should be exempt from licensing b/c us women can make our own birthing choices.

Birth is not a medical event. It is a normal physiologic process. You have been brainwashed to believe that your body is a lemon, to paraphrase the wipe-swapper, our lovely Gaskin.

[Anonymous]

wife-swapper

[Anonymous]

It seems to me that doctors can't really give up their "authority" legally. They can't hire themselves out as technicians who perform procedures for laypeople who have become convinced through their own semblance of research or education that they want or need them. Midwives are being held to the same standard, and as much as I sympathize with the idea that they are not like doctors because birth is not by default a medical procedure or emergency, well, why am I hearing that licensed CPMs also carry and use things like Pitocin (illegally) because it would be irresponsible to do otherwise?

[Anonymous]

I was just reading about the NC midwife who is being charged also. Oddly enough she was licensed in VA and not NC. What in the world?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is just a sad, sad story. I don't think there is a more respected midwife in the Baltimore/DC area than Karen. Every day our children face risks, possible dangerous situations... we as the parents have to choose what's best for them. Time after time home birth has been shown to have the same infant mortality rate as hospital births, but a much lower rate of complications. Overall, it's far superior for the mother and baby. Countless babies are born in this area every month who are in some way touched by Karen's excellent skill as a midwife. My own midwife learned from Karen.

The government has no business whatsoever in licensing midwives. If a woman thinks she's making the best decision by having her baby at home, then as the one who made the informed choice, she should stand by her decision. My heart aches for the family who lost this baby but it's important to remember 1: the family knew the risks associated with the birth 2: tragically sometimes things like this happen. Hospitals aren't exempt and anyone who thinks they are needs to check their facts. Licensing does not stop a baby from dying, nor does it make things "safer". What would these parents have done if the mother had gone to the hospital for c-section and the mother died from operation complications, or what if the baby contracted MRSA and died? No thank you, I don't need the government to be my nanny and walk me from birth through death.

I'd like a couple of citations on the claim that homebirth has the same infant mortality as hospital birth. The studies I've seen (when properly controlled) have shown increased neonatal death at homebirths.

This is classic black and white thinking. "Babies sometimes will die at a hospital, therefore all options are equally good!" Not really.

[Anonymous]

Isn't homebirth midwifery filled with the spirtual daughters of the acid-dropping, husband-sharing Ina May? If so, not terribly surprised that a small technicality like a license would stop them...

[Anonymous]

Could some please post the relevant study per hospital vs home birth neonatal morbidity & mortality. A PP just stated that the study the had seen when properly controlled (what does that mean exactly?) shows the hospital to be safer than home. I realize that earlier in this thread studies and stats have come up. If I missed the relevant article please point me in that direction. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was just reading about the NC midwife who is being charged also. Oddly enough she was licensed in VA and not NC. What in the world?

NC, like MD, does not have licensure for CPMs. The midwife sometimes practiced in VA, so had her VA license.

[Anonymous]

19:20 again, where can I find data that shows the rates of morbidity and mortality related to pregnancy and childbirth for women and babies prior to birth in the USA historically occurring in the hospital, after the hospital became the primary birthplace, and the present day. Once again, thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CPM 2000 speaks for itself:
http://www.bmj.com/content/330/7505/1416.full.pdf

It sure does speak for itself. Take a look at Table 4, where the authors list all of those low risk births attended by physicians or obstetricians in hospitals. Note that the in-hospital studies have data going back as far as 1969, and that some of the institutions jump out as being not particularly known for low-risk births (Parkland, anyone?). And this data is supposed to be the in-hospital control for homebirths that took place in 2000? When you have to use 30-year-old data from a higher risk group to make your data look good, something is wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hold on: Your study lists the cause of death as SIDS in a surprising number of newborn deaths. I would state that 15-28 hours postpartum is a little soon to diagnose something as SIDS and not as a birth complication, even if you are trying really really hard to make CPMs look all spiffy.

WNL on a systems assessment translates as We Never Looked, and the overwhelming sepsis, just for one example, caused by Group B strep can easily go undiagnosed until the baby crashes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:19:20 again, where can I find data that shows the rates of morbidity and mortality related to pregnancy and childbirth for women and babies prior to birth in the USA historically occurring in the hospital, after the hospital became the primary birthplace, and the present day. Once again, thanks.

I would look at the CDC's website. They have lots of new and old stats there.

[Anonymous]

Your question about mortality/morbidity could be answered more easily if MANA (which has recorded stats on some 18,000 homebirths), would actually make its data public. But they refuse. Wonder why?