TJ admissions change from Merit to Essay impact to Asian American Students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So there's still not a single shred of evidence of a cheating scandal or people buying the test. No one is able to post a single news article or any real proof. Thanks for clearing that up for everyone.

Don’t be obtuse. No one was literally paying money and getting the test in return. They were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

You keep moving the goalposts and arguing against a strawman. It was put forth that there was a huge cheating scandal, people were buying the test, and it was all over the news. It was also put forth that the "cheating scandal" was the main reason for the TJ admissions change. Seriously, pony up some actual evidence of this, or stop yapping. The only evidence that was provided is that people were concerned that test prep was skewing the results, and that affluent kids had an advantage. There's also a bit of hearsay that some questions on the Quant Q were the same as some practiced at Curie. I still haven't seen any evidence of a "cheating scandal," "kids (literally) buying the test," and this being "all over the news."

FWIW, Amazon sells Quant Q practice books.

There's evidence provided in this thread.Numerous first-hand accounts and multiple news sources. Not sure why you keep ignoring it.

Because the accounts and news sources show nothing of the "cheating" and "test buying" as the lie you keep on spreading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So there's still not a single shred of evidence of a cheating scandal or people buying the test. No one is able to post a single news article or any real proof. Thanks for clearing that up for everyone.

Don’t be obtuse. No one was literally paying money and getting the test in return. They were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

You keep moving the goalposts and arguing against a strawman. It was put forth that there was a huge cheating scandal, people were buying the test, and it was all over the news. It was also put forth that the "cheating scandal" was the main reason for the TJ admissions change. Seriously, pony up some actual evidence of this, or stop yapping. The only evidence that was provided is that people were concerned that test prep was skewing the results, and that affluent kids had an advantage. There's also a bit of hearsay that some questions on the Quant Q were the same as some practiced at Curie. I still haven't seen any evidence of a "cheating scandal," "kids (literally) buying the test," and this being "all over the news."

FWIW, Amazon sells Quant Q practice books.

I’m a DP. As posted many times before, TJ kids described how Curie obtained and shared test questions.

Amazon sells Nazi handbooks. Doesn’t mean you should buy one.

Bottom line, FCPS wanted a way to fairly assess kids across the county without fueling a $$$$ test prep industry, giving affluent families a huge advantage.

Parents pushing their kids to prep are why we can’t have nice things.

So when they removed the test, they did that. So why the experience factors?

To address systemic inequalities.

For the class of 2024 less than 1% (0.6%) of the students came from economically-disadvantaged families.

I'd be curious to know what percentage of applicants were even from economically disadvantaged families, to begin with. I can only speculate but if I were toguess it's much lower than the county's median rate.

Also, what percentage of the Alg 1 students admitted by the new system are from low-income and URM families? FCPS never releases that breakdown. Simply assuming low-income and URM students are less qualified is not only inaccurate but discriminatory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So there's still not a single shred of evidence of a cheating scandal or people buying the test. No one is able to post a single news article or any real proof. Thanks for clearing that up for everyone.

Don’t be obtuse. No one was literally paying money and getting the test in return. They were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

You keep moving the goalposts and arguing against a strawman. It was put forth that there was a huge cheating scandal, people were buying the test, and it was all over the news. It was also put forth that the "cheating scandal" was the main reason for the TJ admissions change. Seriously, pony up some actual evidence of this, or stop yapping. The only evidence that was provided is that people were concerned that test prep was skewing the results, and that affluent kids had an advantage. There's also a bit of hearsay that some questions on the Quant Q were the same as some practiced at Curie. I still haven't seen any evidence of a "cheating scandal," "kids (literally) buying the test," and this being "all over the news."

FWIW, Amazon sells Quant Q practice books.

There's evidence provided in this thread.Numerous first-hand accounts and multiple news sources. Not sure why you keep ignoring it.

Because the accounts and news sources show nothing of the "cheating" and "test buying" as the lie you keep on spreading.

DP.

We do know that affluent families were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) acquired and provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

And, we do know that FCPS wanted a way to fairly assess kids across the county without fueling a $$$$ test prep industry, giving affluent families a huge, unfair advantage.

The admissions process keeps changing because parents keep trying to game the system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So there's still not a single shred of evidence of a cheating scandal or people buying the test. No one is able to post a single news article or any real proof. Thanks for clearing that up for everyone.

Don’t be obtuse. No one was literally paying money and getting the test in return. They were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

You keep moving the goalposts and arguing against a strawman. It was put forth that there was a huge cheating scandal, people were buying the test, and it was all over the news. It was also put forth that the "cheating scandal" was the main reason for the TJ admissions change. Seriously, pony up some actual evidence of this, or stop yapping. The only evidence that was provided is that people were concerned that test prep was skewing the results, and that affluent kids had an advantage. There's also a bit of hearsay that some questions on the Quant Q were the same as some practiced at Curie. I still haven't seen any evidence of a "cheating scandal," "kids (literally) buying the test," and this being "all over the news."

FWIW, Amazon sells Quant Q practice books.

There's evidence provided in this thread.Numerous first-hand accounts and multiple news sources. Not sure why you keep ignoring it.

Because the accounts and news sources show nothing of the "cheating" and "test buying" as the lie you keep on spreading.

DP.

We do know that affluent families were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) acquired and provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

And, we do know that FCPS wanted a way to fairly assess kids across the county without fueling a $$$$ test prep industry, giving affluent families a huge, unfair advantage.

The admissions process keeps changing because parents keep trying to game the system.

How do we "know" this? Where's the article from a reputable news source? I don't have an agenda. I wasn't following all of this when it happened, and I just want news and not hearsay.

[Anonymous]

Usually mods delete threads that make such outrageous claims that can't be substantiated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So there's still not a single shred of evidence of a cheating scandal or people buying the test. No one is able to post a single news article or any real proof. Thanks for clearing that up for everyone.

Don’t be obtuse. No one was literally paying money and getting the test in return. They were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

You keep moving the goalposts and arguing against a strawman. It was put forth that there was a huge cheating scandal, people were buying the test, and it was all over the news. It was also put forth that the "cheating scandal" was the main reason for the TJ admissions change. Seriously, pony up some actual evidence of this, or stop yapping. The only evidence that was provided is that people were concerned that test prep was skewing the results, and that affluent kids had an advantage. There's also a bit of hearsay that some questions on the Quant Q were the same as some practiced at Curie. I still haven't seen any evidence of a "cheating scandal," "kids (literally) buying the test," and this being "all over the news."

FWIW, Amazon sells Quant Q practice books.

There's evidence provided in this thread.Numerous first-hand accounts and multiple news sources. Not sure why you keep ignoring it.

Because the accounts and news sources show nothing of the "cheating" and "test buying" as the lie you keep on spreading.

DP.

We do know that affluent families were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) acquired and provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

And, we do know that FCPS wanted a way to fairly assess kids across the county without fueling a $$$$ test prep industry, giving affluent families a huge, unfair advantage.

The admissions process keeps changing because parents keep trying to game the system.

This claim is completely BS, Donald!

Places like Kaplan, Princeton, College Board, Barron's, etc. have released sample and past exam questions for decades. TJ never has prohibited students from talking about exam questions from their memory. Also, most affluent families in Fairfax are not Asian. If money can make the difference, there should be way more white students admitted in the old system than in the new system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Usually mods delete threads that make such outrageous claims that can't be substantiated.

It sounds plausible to me that there could have been a cheating scandal that caused FCPS to change the admissions procedure. But if it happened, why aren't there any news articles? Why aren't there notes from any of the school board or FCPS meetings showing that they changed TJ admissions to address a cheating scandal? Even if a prep center got access to questions similar to those on the test, why is it a big deal since Amazon sells prep books?

When I do a google search for TJ cheating scandal or TJ test buying, I just get links to dcum discussions or I get links for the many articles on the NMSF Commended Scholar issue. It seems weird that there's nothing about people buying the TJ test or cheating on admissions if it really happened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So there's still not a single shred of evidence of a cheating scandal or people buying the test. No one is able to post a single news article or any real proof. Thanks for clearing that up for everyone.

Don’t be obtuse. No one was literally paying money and getting the test in return. They were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

Yes, they were paying for access to actual test questions that had been obtained by debriefing students over a period of years.

Again people are saying debriefing when this is just a guess. The 'period of years' was at most two years.

[Anonymous]

Now paying Curie for essay prep is even more likely to get someone in, and not paying makes you less likely to get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So there's still not a single shred of evidence of a cheating scandal or people buying the test. No one is able to post a single news article or any real proof. Thanks for clearing that up for everyone.

Don’t be obtuse. No one was literally paying money and getting the test in return. They were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

You keep moving the goalposts and arguing against a strawman. It was put forth that there was a huge cheating scandal, people were buying the test, and it was all over the news. It was also put forth that the "cheating scandal" was the main reason for the TJ admissions change. Seriously, pony up some actual evidence of this, or stop yapping. The only evidence that was provided is that people were concerned that test prep was skewing the results, and that affluent kids had an advantage. There's also a bit of hearsay that some questions on the Quant Q were the same as some practiced at Curie. I still haven't seen any evidence of a "cheating scandal," "kids (literally) buying the test," and this being "all over the news."

FWIW, Amazon sells Quant Q practice books.

There's evidence provided in this thread.Numerous first-hand accounts and multiple news sources. Not sure why you keep ignoring it.

Because the accounts and news sources show nothing of the "cheating" and "test buying" as the lie you keep on spreading.

DP.

We do know that affluent families were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) acquired and provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

And, we do know that FCPS wanted a way to fairly assess kids across the county without fueling a $$$$ test prep industry, giving affluent families a huge, unfair advantage.

The admissions process keeps changing because parents keep trying to game the system.

How do we "know" this? Where's the article from a reputable news source? I don't have an agenda. I wasn't following all of this when it happened, and I just want news and not hearsay.

DP here. Much of the “evidence” you’re looking for was published originally on the website and social media of the test prep business involved. They deleted the information after readers of the information pointed out that what they were posting was suspicious.

I don’t think it is technically illegal to ask students to report on questions in a test, even if they have signed a statement stating that they would not discuss the questions with anyone. So, no, there isn’t going to be a criminal prosecution.

But, let’s face it, it’s not exactly of the highest ethical standards to ask someone to do this, particularly young students whose characters are in the midst of development. An adult who asks children to do something the school has specifically told them not to do takes the risk of adversely affecting the morals/ethics of that child.

Just because something is not illegal doesn’t mean it is ethical.

[Anonymous]

^So you’re saying that there’s no evidence of any of this? There are no news articles or anything? There’s nothing other than what a prep company may or may not have posted and subsequently deleted? Are you trying to point to the prep center’s list of admissions as evidence of cheating?

[Anonymous]

Writing is an essential academic and job skill lmao. How is being evaluated on writing NOT "merit"? It's much more applicable to the real world than bubbling in a scantron correctly.

[Anonymous]

I thought it's well known the change of admission policy is to boost under-represented community admission. Why would anyone link it to "cheating scandal"? What's the mindset for such association? That spending money on prepping is cheating?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So there's still not a single shred of evidence of a cheating scandal or people buying the test. No one is able to post a single news article or any real proof. Thanks for clearing that up for everyone.

Don’t be obtuse. No one was literally paying money and getting the test in return. They were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

You keep moving the goalposts and arguing against a strawman. It was put forth that there was a huge cheating scandal, people were buying the test, and it was all over the news. It was also put forth that the "cheating scandal" was the main reason for the TJ admissions change. Seriously, pony up some actual evidence of this, or stop yapping. The only evidence that was provided is that people were concerned that test prep was skewing the results, and that affluent kids had an advantage. There's also a bit of hearsay that some questions on the Quant Q were the same as some practiced at Curie. I still haven't seen any evidence of a "cheating scandal," "kids (literally) buying the test," and this being "all over the news."

FWIW, Amazon sells Quant Q practice books.

There's evidence provided in this thread.Numerous first-hand accounts and multiple news sources. Not sure why you keep ignoring it.

Because the accounts and news sources show nothing of the "cheating" and "test buying" as the lie you keep on spreading.

DP.

We do know that affluent families were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) acquired and provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

And, we do know that FCPS wanted a way to fairly assess kids across the county without fueling a $$$$ test prep industry, giving affluent families a huge, unfair advantage.

The admissions process keeps changing because parents keep trying to game the system.

This claim is completely BS, Donald!

Places like Kaplan, Princeton, College Board, Barron's, etc. have released sample and past exam questions for decades. TJ never has prohibited students from talking about exam questions from their memory. Also, most affluent families in Fairfax are not Asian. If money can make the difference, there should be way more white students admitted in the old system than in the new system.

The biggest beneficiaries of the new admissions process are students from low-income Asian families.


https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So there's still not a single shred of evidence of a cheating scandal or people buying the test. No one is able to post a single news article or any real proof. Thanks for clearing that up for everyone.

Don’t be obtuse. No one was literally paying money and getting the test in return. They were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

You keep moving the goalposts and arguing against a strawman. It was put forth that there was a huge cheating scandal, people were buying the test, and it was all over the news. It was also put forth that the "cheating scandal" was the main reason for the TJ admissions change. Seriously, pony up some actual evidence of this, or stop yapping. The only evidence that was provided is that people were concerned that test prep was skewing the results, and that affluent kids had an advantage. There's also a bit of hearsay that some questions on the Quant Q were the same as some practiced at Curie. I still haven't seen any evidence of a "cheating scandal," "kids (literally) buying the test," and this being "all over the news."

FWIW, Amazon sells Quant Q practice books.

There's evidence provided in this thread.Numerous first-hand accounts and multiple news sources. Not sure why you keep ignoring it.

Because the accounts and news sources show nothing of the "cheating" and "test buying" as the lie you keep on spreading.

DP.

We do know that affluent families were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) acquired and provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

And, we do know that FCPS wanted a way to fairly assess kids across the county without fueling a $$$$ test prep industry, giving affluent families a huge, unfair advantage.

The admissions process keeps changing because parents keep trying to game the system.

This claim is completely BS, Donald!

Places like Kaplan, Princeton, College Board, Barron's, etc. have released sample and past exam questions for decades. TJ never has prohibited students from talking about exam questions from their memory. Also, most affluent families in Fairfax are not Asian. If money can make the difference, there should be way more white students admitted in the old system than in the new system.

The biggest beneficiaries of the new admissions process are students from low-income Asian families.


https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”

Please stop posting articles that do nothing to prove your points.