TJ admissions change from Merit to Essay impact to Asian American Students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

If TJ admissions were a reflection of income then TJ would be predominantly white.
Are you under the impression that the asians in fairfax are wealthier than the white people in fairfax? GTFOH

Nobody said this. The important point is that the admissions changes have made it possible for many more kids from lower income and/or less educated family situations to have the opportunity to attend TJ. That is what matters, not what race anyone happens to be.

Kids don’t get to choose their families. Are you mad that kids who happen to have less well off and/or less well educated parents are now attending TJ?

Race was the singular driving factor behind this change.

That's complete nonsense. The process is race blind. If you can show otherwise you will be able to win a multi-million dollar lawsuit. Good luck!

+1

Confirmed by SCOTUS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Asian count remains more or less same, but the Asian percent has gone down?
Along with the admissions change, the total number of seats were expanded by 100 seats, but Asian students were solely excluded from participating in the expanded seat assignment. There are consistently 1000+ declined Asian applicants each year, largest among all ethnicities, and none of them are allowed to receive a single seat from the expanded seat quota.

Racial ceiling

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So 75ish less Asian students are getting in each year now? How did the rest of the population feel about having such a large majority before? I remember reading that they were very uncomfortable. Maybe they should have changed the mission of TJ to diversity it better rather than the application.

Rest of the the population celebrated the Asian majority at TJ since they reinforced TJ's standing. It is the equity politicians that went about tinkering with TJ. The 75 Asian students that are denied their TJ spots, can easily handle the base school rigor. The same cant be said of the 75 replacement Algebra 1 students that are suffering at TJ with remedial math and playing constant catch-up.

The average number of Asian students per admitted class for the 10 years prior to the change was 330. The average since the change was 321.

So, on average, there are 9 fewer Asian kids per class after the change.

race based selections and racial quota management behind those numbers is concerning.

There is no racial quota or race-based selections.

Stop spreading misinformation.

FCPS reserved spots for every middle school whether those kids were qualified or not. Those middle schools have different demographics.

Stop spreading misinformation.

ZERO students were automatically granted admission. They ALL had to meet the criteria and go through admissions/evaluation process.

The minimum criteria are met by 40% of the student population. There are schools that did not send the minimum to TJ because they didn't have enough qualified applicants. Those that did apply automatically gained admission.

So unless you think 40% of the student population are qualified, the quota will result in unqualified students.

Citation?

DP. This boarddocs presentation about the new TJ methods says that 4,357 kids in the class of 2025 would have met the bar of a 3.5+ GPA, at least Algebra I and honors science, and either Young Scholars status or an additional honors class. See appendix B, page 25.
https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/BWE23Y004896/$file/TJ%20White%20Paper%2011.17.2020.pdf

FCPS had around 14,000 8th graders that year based on the school profiles membership history for 2020-21. This means around 31% of FCPS 8th graders met the TJ qualification bar that year.

I think that's the closest we have to actual data.

This is good info. This is a purely anecdotal observation but there has been a spike in grade inflation in the last 2 years. I don't know if it was because the base year you mention were covid years and students have recovered or because schools are trying to goose grades to create a bigger applicant pool but I suspect it is the former.

There has been LESS grade inflation at my kids’ schools as some covid policies are fading away. Fewer opportunities for retakes, deadlines for homework, etc.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So there's still not a single shred of evidence of a cheating scandal or people buying the test. No one is able to post a single news article or any real proof. Thanks for clearing that up for everyone.

Don’t be obtuse. No one was literally paying money and getting the test in return. They were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

You keep moving the goalposts and arguing against a strawman. It was put forth that there was a huge cheating scandal, people were buying the test, and it was all over the news. It was also put forth that the "cheating scandal" was the main reason for the TJ admissions change. Seriously, pony up some actual evidence of this, or stop yapping. The only evidence that was provided is that people were concerned that test prep was skewing the results, and that affluent kids had an advantage. There's also a bit of hearsay that some questions on the Quant Q were the same as some practiced at Curie. I still haven't seen any evidence of a "cheating scandal," "kids (literally) buying the test," and this being "all over the news."

FWIW, Amazon sells Quant Q practice books.

There's evidence provided in this thread.Numerous first-hand accounts and multiple news sources. Not sure why you keep ignoring it.

Because the accounts and news sources show nothing of the "cheating" and "test buying" as the lie you keep on spreading.

DP.

We do know that affluent families were paying for $$$$ prep that (unethically) acquired and provided access to previous/example test questions on a test that shouldn’t be prepped for. It was shady AF as many people, including former students who did the prep, have noted.

And, we do know that FCPS wanted a way to fairly assess kids across the county without fueling a $$$$ test prep industry, giving affluent families a huge, unfair advantage.

The admissions process keeps changing because parents keep trying to game the system.

This claim is completely BS, Donald!

Places like Kaplan, Princeton, College Board, Barron's, etc. have released sample and past exam questions for decades. TJ never has prohibited students from talking about exam questions from their memory. Also, most affluent families in Fairfax are not Asian. If money can make the difference, there should be way more white students admitted in the old system than in the new system.

The biggest beneficiaries of the new admissions process are students from low-income Asian families.


https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”

Please stop posting articles that do nothing to prove your points.

My points were:
1. non-affluent Asian students benefitted from the change

2. Quant-Q, intentionally did NOT release materials to the public - very different than SAT, ACT, etc.

3. for years, they have been looking for ways to avoid some kids having an unfair advance with test-prep

Either Quant-Q or you were lying. A 5-second search on Amazon gave me more than 15 books with Quant-Q questions. You don't have to be affluent to spend 10-20 bucks on a book. There is no evidence that low-income Asian students need/benefit from the change.

None of those were based on materials provided by the Quant-Q creator, Insight Assessment. And, based on the NDAs, all of those books are likely unethically, or even potentially illegally, developed.

https://insightassessment.com/policies/
"Non-Disclosure and Non-Compete Agreement
By accessing the Insight Assessment online testing interface or purchasing a preview pack or instrument use licenses, all clients acknowledge that the on-line interface and the testing instrument(s) it contains or displays include proprietary business information, such as but not limited to the structure of test questions or the presentation of those questions and other information displayed in conjunction with the use of this testing interface. In the absence of a specific written agreement between the client and Insight Assessment, the client agrees that by purchasing a preview pack or testing licenses, the client and their organization, shall not disclose, copy, or replicate this testing interface or this testing instrument(s) in whole or in part in comparable or competitive product or interface of any kind. In the absence of a specific written agreement between the client and Insight Assessment, the client agrees that by accessing the testing instrument(s) for any purpose, including but not limited to previewing the instrument(s), the client and the client’s organization shall not create, design, develop, publish, market, or distribute any comparable or competitive testing instrument(s)."

"Remember that the goal of a critical thinking assessment is to measure your natural ability to think critically, so there’s no need for extensive preparation. Just be yourself and approach the assessment with a clear mind."

Ok. Do you have any evidence that test prep centers used the materials from Quant-Q? or do we have to take your words that somehow students stole the questions for them?

TJ students admitted it.

So, TJ students came to you and admitted it. Also, even if it was a real problem, FCPS could easily solve it by incorporating rules prohibiting students from discussing exam information or materials. This is a common practice used by organizations administering exams across different time zones. FCPS has done that because it's not a real problem.

No, several students shared online. Which you would know if you actually did go back and read all of the old threads.

The students agreed not to share test content/format before they took the test. How would have more rules helped?

Some parents will always look for ways to cheat the system.

This is your evidence and you want people to take you seriously. Even if it's the case, FCPS should enforce their rules the same way as they are doing with their code of ethics and conduct. They can even sue those test prep centers for using infringed materials. It's obvious to me that this was not a widespread problem as you claim.

In the off chance that you’re not just being oppositional and you really do want to learn more, get back to us after you go back and re-read the many threads.

Then maybe you won’t sound so ignorant.

But the threads don’t point to anything. It’s just anonymous posts. No links to the coveted Facebook posts, no articles about cheating on the admissions test, no links about a scandal.

It’s entirely circular.

There were definitely links to the FB posts. You’re clearly not reading the threads.

You remind me of the open school crazies who didn’t even have kids in school at the time but were very loud and very clueless.

So post them here. The links. Right here.

So won’t read the many threads of this old, beat-to-death topic AND you want others to dig up links for you?

I just googled and found some links in the first couple of results.

If your kid is as lazy as you are TJ doesn’t seem likely.

So, you supposedly found some links proving what you said, but you refuse to post them? Sounds legit.

You're the one who made the claim that it has been proven and that there are links to reputable sources indicating what you've claimed. The burden is on you to provide that proof. Right here, post a link to a news article. If you won't, you're admitting that you can't.

No, I never made that claim. You are confusing posters.

It takes 2 seconds to google to find the FB links. You really don’t care about them; you just want to be oppositional.

You could end the debate right now if you post those links that you found in 2 seconds. Why won't you?

Because I have already posted it (again) recently. And I’m not your Google btch.

The rest of us all know what went down. You’re the clueless one here. Put in the 2-sec of work if you actually want the info. I’m guessing you don’t.

Except that you haven't. You're unwilling to post it because you're a liar and full of shit.

Yes, and everybody knows at this point.
Don't feed the trolls.
They literally copy paste the same sentence in response to you and get walls of texts from you guys sometimes.

Except it’s been posted a few times since this.

We know who the trolls really are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:


Why would they reject high math qualified applicants in favor of lower math applicants?

Why doesn't Fcps reveal this in the initial news release? That would show which group gets discriminated the most.

[Anonymous]

If anyone is facing discrimination, it’s not Asian students.

The number of Asian students enrolled at TJ by school year (fall):


Aside from 2020 & 2019, there are MORE Asian students at TJ since the admissions change than any other year in the school’s history.



The data shows that Asian students were accepted at a higher rate than almost all other groups, aside from Hispanic students.

Asian 19%
Black 14%
Hispanic 21%
White 17%
Multiracial/Other* 13%
ALL 18%


The number of Asian students at TJ is almost at a record high. And they are admitted at a higher than average rate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If TJ admissions were a reflection of income then TJ would be predominantly white.
Are you under the impression that the asians in fairfax are wealthier than the white people in fairfax? GTFOH

Nobody said this. The important point is that the admissions changes have made it possible for many more kids from lower income and/or less educated family situations to have the opportunity to attend TJ. That is what matters, not what race anyone happens to be.

Kids don’t get to choose their families. Are you mad that kids who happen to have less well off and/or less well educated parents are now attending TJ?

Race was the singular driving factor behind this change.

That's complete nonsense. The process is race blind. If you can show otherwise you will be able to win a multi-million dollar lawsuit. Good luck!

I don't know who you think you're fooling.
The email traffic between the board members, the hearings and the initial proposed rule all clearly demonstrate a desire to racially balance the student population at TJ.
The intent behind the change is clear to everyone including you, you're just being dishonest.
You may think this is benign discrimination in a "steal from the rich and give to the poor" sort of way but it's still racist if you define rich and poor along racial lines. Also the increase for whites was larger than the increase for blacks and hispanics combined.

How would I get a get a multimillion dollar judgment because a race blind process was created with racially discriminatory intent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If TJ admissions were a reflection of income then TJ would be predominantly white.
Are you under the impression that the asians in fairfax are wealthier than the white people in fairfax? GTFOH

Nobody said this. The important point is that the admissions changes have made it possible for many more kids from lower income and/or less educated family situations to have the opportunity to attend TJ. That is what matters, not what race anyone happens to be.

Kids don’t get to choose their families. Are you mad that kids who happen to have less well off and/or less well educated parents are now attending TJ?

Race was the singular driving factor behind this change.

That's complete nonsense. The process is race blind. If you can show otherwise you will be able to win a multi-million dollar lawsuit. Good luck!

LOL very true!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If anyone is facing discrimination, it’s not Asian students.

The number of Asian students enrolled at TJ by school year (fall):


Aside from 2020 & 2019, there are MORE Asian students at TJ since the admissions change than any other year in the school’s history.



The data shows that Asian students were accepted at a higher rate than almost all other groups, aside from Hispanic students.

Asian 19%
Black 14%
Hispanic 21%
White 17%
Multiracial/Other* 13%
ALL 18%


The number of Asian students at TJ is almost at a record high. And they are admitted at a higher than average rate.

Thanks for clearing this up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If anyone is facing discrimination, it’s not Asian students.

The number of Asian students enrolled at TJ by school year (fall):


Aside from 2020 & 2019, there are MORE Asian students at TJ since the admissions change than any other year in the school’s history.



The data shows that Asian students were accepted at a higher rate than almost all other groups, aside from Hispanic students.

Asian 19%
Black 14%
Hispanic 21%
White 17%
Multiracial/Other* 13%
ALL 18%


The number of Asian students at TJ is almost at a record high. And they are admitted at a higher than average rate.

Do you have a link to this chart or did you make it yourself?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If anyone is facing discrimination, it’s not Asian students.

The number of Asian students enrolled at TJ by school year (fall):


Aside from 2020 & 2019, there are MORE Asian students at TJ since the admissions change than any other year in the school’s history.



The data shows that Asian students were accepted at a higher rate than almost all other groups, aside from Hispanic students.

Asian 19%
Black 14%
Hispanic 21%
White 17%
Multiracial/Other* 13%
ALL 18%


The number of Asian students at TJ is almost at a record high. And they are admitted at a higher than average rate.

Do you have a link to this chart or did you make it yourself?

Obviously made it themself given 2023 is written twice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If anyone is facing discrimination, it’s not Asian students.

The number of Asian students enrolled at TJ by school year (fall):


Aside from 2020 & 2019, there are MORE Asian students at TJ since the admissions change than any other year in the school’s history.



The data shows that Asian students were accepted at a higher rate than almost all other groups, aside from Hispanic students.

Asian 19%
Black 14%
Hispanic 21%
White 17%
Multiracial/Other* 13%
ALL 18%


The number of Asian students at TJ is almost at a record high. And they are admitted at a higher than average rate.

Do you have a link to this chart or did you make it yourself?

Obviously made it themself given 2023 is written twice.

OK, that would explain why the numbers are wrong and the graphs look incorrect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


Why would they reject high math qualified applicants in favor of lower math applicants?

Why doesn't Fcps reveal this in the initial news release? That would show which group gets discriminated the most.

What does that note mean about estimating from 2024 class data?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If anyone is facing discrimination, it’s not Asian students.

The number of Asian students enrolled at TJ by school year (fall):


Aside from 2020 & 2019, there are MORE Asian students at TJ since the admissions change than any other year in the school’s history.



The data shows that Asian students were accepted at a higher rate than almost all other groups, aside from Hispanic students.

Asian 19%
Black 14%
Hispanic 21%
White 17%
Multiracial/Other* 13%
ALL 18%


The number of Asian students at TJ is almost at a record high. And they are admitted at a higher than average rate.

Do you have a link to this chart or did you make it yourself?

Obviously made it themself given 2023 is written twice.

OK, that would explain why the numbers are wrong and the graphs look incorrect.

Here you go - extra row removed:


These are fall enrollments.

Feel free to check my work via school profiles: https://t.ly/R7Mvj

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


Why would they reject high math qualified applicants in favor of lower math applicants?

Why doesn't Fcps reveal this in the initial news release? That would show which group gets discriminated the most.

What does that note mean about estimating from 2024 class data?

It means the PP was making assumptions on the breakdown of applicants by race based on the applications from a few years ago. It's not actual data - just estimates.