Travel Soccer teams around NOVA let's discuss

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Joga parents are intense for sure, but so are parents of lots of teams. And all the feelings were a little colored by the fact that these were top teams from big clubs getting trounced.

There also seemed to be a kerfuffle on Twitter wherein an ASA coach accused the Joga coaches of poaching kids from other clubs and thus riding on the development efforts of others. A Joga coach asked the ASA coach to name an example, which he didn't. Indeed, the vast majority of the Joga kids come from FPYC and have been trained by Joga from a young age. They have been playing together for years, even the U9 kids, and they practice A LOT. That's why they're so good. But will it all hold up when they get to U13 and beyond? Who knows.

Do you mean that the Joga parents who were so loud felt justified in being over-the top with the celebrating because they were beating a top team from a big club? That doesn't make a lot of sense, at least with respect to the 10-0 game. Judging from gotsoccer, the Joga team appears to have an extensive record of success (very, very extensive for a team that age), and nothing in the Annandale team's record suggests that they would have gone into the game expecting to dominate. All-star teams from small clubs often are able to trounce teams from big clubs, especially at young age groups where anything can happen.

Interestingly enough, the team we always found most obnoxious in my older son's age group was from FPYC. Those parents yelled and screamed in support when their players committed completely thuggish fouls, and screamed at the referee any time he made a call for the other team. Most of their goals were classic long-ball. I will give the annoying Joga parents credit for supporting a very nice style of soccer, if nothing else.

No, I meant that the parents from "A" teams at big-name clubs are accustomed to their kids doing well and are likely to react badly to their kids being beaten soundly and are likely to make a bigger deal of behavior by the other team than is warranted. But I do agree with you that I would think Joga expects to beat teams like ABGC or Arlington easily and it is, or should be, beneath Joga to do anything that would be perceived as gloating.

At U-9 all of it is ridiculous. Let's be fair and realistic. Most of these kids will not be the same players in 3-5 years once things shake out (correct initial placement errors) and growth spurts happen, etc. Right now practicing and development is what matters not tournaments at 8 and 9 years old. That said- some big clubs need to really watch how they label kids so young and rank at that age and then never re-visit that ranking over the next few years. It should be a lot more fluid. Too many clubs wrongly label a kid as a C or D team player and that's stuck in their mind forever even when it's so clearly undeserved. Parents new to this need to understand just because your kid was labeled 'A' at age 8 for god sake has no meaning going forward (at least it shouldn't). Constant evaluations and movement should be happening. There are also practice players who can look good in that environment, but don't in a real-game situation under pressure. It doesnt matter how good somebody is in practice if they can never replicate it in a game in tight, pressure-filled situations.

+100


I so agree BOTH are important. I also wholeheartedly agree with this quote from above:

There are also practice players who can look good in that environment, but don't in a real-game situation under pressure. It doesn't matter how good somebody is in practice if they can never replicate it in a game in tight, pressure-filled situations.
A game is to show if what they are doing in practice is working. If a team is getting crushed--either what they are doing at practice is not working and they need to revisit or they don't have the right players on the team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[b]The Joga parents are intense for sure, but so are parents of lots of teams. And all the feelings were a little colored by the fact that these were top teams from big clubs getting trounced.

There also seemed to be a kerfuffle on Twitter wherein an ASA coach accused the Joga coaches of poaching kids from other clubs and thus riding on the development efforts of others. A Joga coach asked the ASA coach to name an example, which he didn't. Indeed, the vast majority of the Joga kids come from FPYC and have been trained by Joga from a young age. They have been playing together for years, even the U9 kids, and they practice A LOT. That's why they're so good. But will it all hold up when they get to U13 and beyond? Who knows.

Do you mean that the Joga parents who were so loud felt justified in being over-the top with the celebrating because they were beating a top team from a big club? That doesn't make a lot of sense, at least with respect to the 10-0 game. Judging from gotsoccer, the Joga team appears to have an extensive record of success (very, very extensive for a team that age), and nothing in the Annandale team's record suggests that they would have gone into the game expecting to dominate. All-star teams from small clubs often are able to trounce teams from big clubs, especially at young age groups where anything can happen.

Interestingly enough, the team we always found most obnoxious in my older son's age group was from FPYC. Those parents yelled and screamed in support when their players committed completely thuggish fouls, and screamed at the referee any time he made a call for the other team. Most of their goals were classic long-ball. I will give the annoying Joga parents credit for supporting a very nice style of soccer, if nothing else.

No, I meant that the parents from "A" teams at big-name clubs are accustomed to their kids doing well and are likely to react badly to their kids being beaten soundly and are likely to make a bigger deal of behavior by the other team than is warranted. But I do agree with you that I would think Joga expects to beat teams like ABGC or Arlington easily and it is, or should be, beneath Joga to do anything that would be perceived as gloating.

At U-9 all of it is ridiculous. Let's be fair and realistic. Most of these kids will not be the same players in 3-5 years once things shake out (correct initial placement errors) and growth spurts happen, etc. Right now practicing and development is what matters not tournaments at 8 and 9 years old. That said- some big clubs need to really watch how they label kids so young and rank at that age and then never re-visit that ranking over the next few years. It should be a lot more fluid. Too many clubs wrongly label a kid as a C or D team player and that's stuck in their mind forever even when it's so clearly undeserved. Parents new to this need to understand just because your kid was labeled 'A' at age 8 for god sake has no meaning going forward (at least it shouldn't). Constant evaluations and movement should be happening. There are also practice players who can look good in that environment, but don't in a real-game situation under pressure. It doesnt matter how good somebody is in practice if they can never replicate it in a game in tight, pressure-filled situations.

+100


I so agree BOTH are important. I also wholeheartedly agree with this quote from above:

There are also practice players who can look good in that environment, but don't in a real-game situation under pressure. It doesn't matter how good somebody is in practice if they can never replicate it in a game in tight, pressure-filled situations.
A game is to show if what they are doing in practice is working. [/b] If a team is getting crushed--either what they are doing at practice is not working and they need to revisit or they don't have the right players on the team.[b]

Truth!

[Anonymous]

. At U-9 all of it is ridiculous. Let's be fair and realistic. Most of these kids will not be the same players in 3-5 years once things shake out (correct initial placement errors) and growth spurts happen, etc. Right now practicing and development is what matters not tournaments at 8 and 9 years old. That said- some big clubs need to really watch how they label kids so young and rank at that age and then never re-visit that ranking over the next few years. It should be a lot more fluid. Too many clubs wrongly label a kid as a C or D team player and that's stuck in their mind forever even when it's so clearly undeserved. Parents new to this need to understand just because your kid was labeled 'A' at age 8 for god sake has no meaning going forward (at least it shouldn't). Constant evaluations and movement should be happening. There are also practice players who can look good in that environment, but don't in a real-game situation under pressure. It doesnt matter how good somebody is in practice if they can never replicate it in a game in tight, pressure-filled situations.

Couldn't agree more. I've coached largely the same team of boys from U9 to U13 and none of boys are in the same pecking order quality-wise on my team as they were a few years ago. Some have improved dramatically, some have fallen behind. One boy on my team has grown about 8-10 inches and packed on 30-35 pounds of muscle in the last year. The rest of them will hit tha growth spurt this year or next year. Remember, Michael Jordan did not make his varsity team in High School on his first try. The same is true of development in teams. Teams with players that have had more intense early exposure to soccer and training and who play 70-80 games per year in varous tournaments will initially be ahead of other clubs/teams that develop players more gradually. That early advantage dissipates over time, however, and as other teams practice and train properly they will close the gap and often by U13 (full size field) will pass what were the "better" teams playing the half field at U9/U10.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Joga parents are intense for sure, but so are parents of lots of teams. And all the feelings were a little colored by the fact that these were top teams from big clubs getting trounced.

There also seemed to be a kerfuffle on Twitter wherein an ASA coach accused the Joga coaches of poaching kids from other clubs and thus riding on the development efforts of others. A Joga coach asked the ASA coach to name an example, which he didn't. Indeed, the vast majority of the Joga kids come from FPYC and have been trained by Joga from a young age. They have been playing together for years, even the U9 kids, and they practice A LOT. That's why they're so good. But will it all hold up when they get to U13 and beyond? Who knows.

I can only speak from experience regarding the JOGA parents. Our team encountered a JOGA team, I believe it was their B at a tournament last fall. Our team is a C team at best. From what I can see of the JOGA teams, play down at tournaments to get their stats up. So, an example is they played our team which as mentioned is a C team and it was clear they had some of their players from their A team and B team to play. They had no other teams enrolled at this tournament.

As for the parents, one of our kids accidentally tripped or kicked one of their players. Our team was ahead. I honestly think if there wasn't a fence that one of the parents would have jumped into the field to tackle this kid. The JOGA parent insulted our player, insulted the referee and started dropping F bombs left and right. The scene was so bad and hostile that the referee had to stop the game and said he would not continue the game until this parent was escorted off the sidelines. All the JOGA parents were just looking around until the referee again said that if he didn't leave he would make JOGA forfeit the game. This is the only time, our team has encountered JOGA. While we did play in the ASA tournament this weekend, we did not encounter JOGA. Thankfully. Our team lost to JOGA 5-8.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Joga parents are intense for sure, but so are parents of lots of teams. And all the feelings were a little colored by the fact that these were top teams from big clubs getting trounced.

There also seemed to be a kerfuffle on Twitter wherein an ASA coach accused the Joga coaches of poaching kids from other clubs and thus riding on the development efforts of others. A Joga coach asked the ASA coach to name an example, which he didn't. Indeed, the vast majority of the Joga kids come from FPYC and have been trained by Joga from a young age. They have been playing together for years, even the U9 kids, and they practice A LOT. That's why they're so good. But will it all hold up when they get to U13 and beyond? Who knows.

I can only speak from experience regarding the JOGA parents. Our team encountered a JOGA team, I believe it was their B at a tournament last fall. Our team is a C team at best. From what I can see of the JOGA teams, play down at tournaments to get their stats up. So, an example is they played our team which as mentioned is a C team and it was clear they had some of their players from their A team and B team to play. They had no other teams enrolled at this tournament.

As for the parents, one of our kids accidentally tripped or kicked one of their players. Our team was ahead. I honestly think if there wasn't a fence that one of the parents would have jumped into the field to tackle this kid. The JOGA parent insulted our player, insulted the referee and started dropping F bombs left and right. The scene was so bad and hostile that the referee had to stop the game and said he would not continue the game until this parent was escorted off the sidelines. All the JOGA parents were just looking around until the referee again said that if he didn't leave he would make JOGA forfeit the game. This is the only time, our team has encountered JOGA. While we did play in the ASA tournament this weekend, we did not encounter JOGA. Thankfully. Our team lost to JOGA 5-8.

Well- a lot of the lower teams in many clubs actually have more talent than some of their upper teams at U-9. We've often encountered a lower team we've lost to after having beaten the 'A' team in the same club regular season. I don't think rankings are done so well at this age. One team in our league consistently beat all other teams 10-0, 7-1, etc. all season long. Clearly, this lower ranked team is in the wrong place and, hopefully, will move into a different division. I wouldn't give too much weight at this age to rankings.

The behavior of the teams and parents sounds despicable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Joga parents are intense for sure, but so are parents of lots of teams. And all the feelings were a little colored by the fact that these were top teams from big clubs getting trounced.

There also seemed to be a kerfuffle on Twitter wherein an ASA coach accused the Joga coaches of poaching kids from other clubs and thus riding on the development efforts of others. A Joga coach asked the ASA coach to name an example, which he didn't. Indeed, the vast majority of the Joga kids come from FPYC and have been trained by Joga from a young age. They have been playing together for years, even the U9 kids, and they practice A LOT. That's why they're so good. But will it all hold up when they get to U13 and beyond? Who knows.

I can only speak from experience regarding the JOGA parents. Our team encountered a JOGA team, I believe it was their B at a tournament last fall. Our team is a C team at best. From what I can see of the JOGA teams, play down at tournaments to get their stats up. So, an example is they played our team which as mentioned is a C team and it was clear they had some of their players from their A team and B team to play. They had no other teams enrolled at this tournament.

As for the parents, one of our kids accidentally tripped or kicked one of their players. Our team was ahead. I honestly think if there wasn't a fence that one of the parents would have jumped into the field to tackle this kid. The JOGA parent insulted our player, insulted the referee and started dropping F bombs left and right. The scene was so bad and hostile that the referee had to stop the game and said he would not continue the game until this parent was escorted off the sidelines. All the JOGA parents were just looking around until the referee again said that if he didn't leave he would make JOGA forfeit the game. This is the only time, our team has encountered JOGA. While we did play in the ASA tournament this weekend, we did not encounter JOGA. Thankfully. Our team lost to JOGA 5-8.

I dont challenge anything you say, but I believe Joga only has 3 squads total of 10-11 players each -- 05, 04, and 03 -- and sometimes blended squads play in the higher age group. They may also have a u8 team at this point; not sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I too didn't see anything in this thread about the twitter fight between Arlington and Joga but I did come across it last night. Best I can tell, a Joga coach posted a picture criticizing a team for having a space heater on the sidelines at a game this past weekend, and also responded to complaints about how the Joga parents shout "ole" every time one of their 9 yos beat a player on the field. To me, ASA came out looking much better in the exchanges. Joga supporters like to claim they're being discriminated against and disrespected but it's their own actions that cause most if not all of their problems.

I also read through the various tweets, and ended up feeling like I had a headache. I don't have an issue with some of the things Joga is trying to accomplish, and I really enjoyed reading the 3four3 blog back in the day (the Joga founder is the number 1 fan/disciple of the guy who writes that blog), but all the posturing gets very tedious.

The 3four3 guy and the Joga guy both think they have the answers to everything that ails U.S. soccer, and they refuse to listen when evidence to the contrary is pointed out. They may be decent coaches, but when people refuse to listen to anything, you have to take what they say with a grain of salt.

Someone else mentioned the GotSoccer rankings. Did you notice how many more games the Joga teams had played? That's how you game the GotSoccer rankings. Can't take them seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I too didn't see anything in this thread about the twitter fight between Arlington and Joga but I did come across it last night. Best I can tell, a Joga coach posted a picture criticizing a team for having a space heater on the sidelines at a game this past weekend, and also responded to complaints about how the Joga parents shout "ole" every time one of their 9 yos beat a player on the field. To me, ASA came out looking much better in the exchanges. Joga supporters like to claim they're being discriminated against and disrespected but it's their own actions that cause most if not all of their problems.

I also read through the various tweets, and ended up feeling like I had a headache. I don't have an issue with some of the things Joga is trying to accomplish, and I really enjoyed reading the 3four3 blog back in the day (the Joga founder is the number 1 fan/disciple of the guy who writes that blog), but all the posturing gets very tedious.

The 3four3 guy and the Joga guy both think they have the answers to everything that ails U.S. soccer, and they refuse to listen when evidence to the contrary is pointed out. They may be decent coaches, but when people refuse to listen to anything, you have to take what they say with a grain of salt.

Someone else mentioned the GotSoccer rankings. Did you notice how many more games the Joga teams had played? That's how you game the GotSoccer rankings. Can't take them seriously.

As somebody that is tired of the soccer monoply. I love their message. This is the first I heard of them since my kids are young.

I'm all for the underdogs and they've developed some impressive skills in their players. How do you steal a U-8/U-9 player? They are new. Their skills weeny developed by another club.

I tend to agree a lot of US soccer is developing robots. Have you been to a travel soccer practice run by a big club? They aren't about developing the natural skill or strength in the individual. They want everyone to play the same. Boring.

[Anonymous]

Joga's emphasis on "street soccer" sounds great. But don't these young teams train six or eight hours per week year-round in addition to playing tournaments? That seems at odds with the stated commitment to encouraging player freedom, and isn't it risky to go all in on a massive early-specialization strategy? Elite soccer players often juggled multiple sports when younger. I don't see how the Joga boys have time to be anything other than soccer machines, or even robots. I hope it all works out for these players.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Joga's emphasis on "street soccer" sounds great. But don't these young teams train six or eight hours per week year-round in addition to playing tournaments? That seems at odds with the stated commitment to encouraging player freedom, and isn't it risky to go all in on a massive early-specialization strategy? Elite soccer players often juggled multiple sports when younger. I don't see how the Joga boys have time to be anything other than soccer machines, or even robots. I hope it all works out for these players.

Elite soccer players just play soccer.

Only in the US are kids juggling multiple sports.

Some sports don't require specialization at a young age because they aren't as skill-based as soccer, e.g,, linebacker, etc.

Street soccer concept is great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Joga's emphasis on "street soccer" sounds great. But don't these young teams train six or eight hours per week year-round in addition to playing tournaments? That seems at odds with the stated commitment to encouraging player freedom, and isn't it risky to go all in on a massive early-specialization strategy? Elite soccer players often juggled multiple sports when younger. I don't see how the Joga boys have time to be anything other than soccer machines, or even robots. I hope it all works out for these players.

Elite soccer players just play soccer.

Only in the US are kids juggling multiple sports.

Some sports don't require specialization at a young age because they aren't as skill-based as soccer, e.g,, linebacker, etc.

Street soccer concept is great.

Not all elite soccer players just play soccer, and the current academic research points pretty strongly toward finding no benefit (and some dangers) in specializing before, say, age 12.

The Joga guy and the 3four3 guy don't care much for book learning. They also hate MLS and everything about the U.S. Soccer establishment -- sometimes with good reason, sometimes in just blind arrogance.

Sure, street soccer is great, and we need more free play. Shouldn't be structured all the time. Elite Euro academies like Ajax ask their players to play on their own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Joga's emphasis on "street soccer" sounds great. But don't these young teams train six or eight hours per week year-round in addition to playing tournaments? That seems at odds with the stated commitment to encouraging player freedom, and isn't it risky to go all in on a massive early-specialization strategy? Elite soccer players often juggled multiple sports when younger. I don't see how the Joga boys have time to be anything other than soccer machines, or even robots. I hope it all works out for these players.

Elite soccer players just play soccer.

Only in the US are kids juggling multiple sports.

Some sports don't require specialization at a young age because they aren't as skill-based as soccer, e.g,, linebacker, etc.

Street soccer concept is great.

Not all elite soccer players just play soccer, and the current academic research points pretty strongly toward finding no benefit (and some dangers) in specializing before, say, age 12.

The Joga guy and the 3four3 guy don't care much for book learning. They also hate MLS and everything about the U.S. Soccer establishment -- sometimes with good reason, sometimes in just blind arrogance.

Sure, street soccer is great, and we need more free play. Shouldn't be structured all the time. Elite Euro academies like Ajax ask their players to play on their own.

So, what part about training 4-5 times a week, playing 20 tournaments a year, recruiting hardcore, and only playing 1 position at 8 years old is akin to street soccer? Did I miss that part of Messi's background story?

The parent behavior mentioned here is abhorrent, but to be expected in an environment where heavy recruiting and tournaments (which are awful for development, btw) are the focus. All talk of street soccer and some nonsense about creating professional players is a smokescreen for a money grab. Sell a dream to some type As with fast kids and money to burn that going to Dallas supercup at U9 is going to somehow matter when they are older. He isn't the first to do it, he won't be the last, he is just a bit more brazen that the others and encourages parents to make fun of young kids on other teams.

Buyer beware.

[Anonymous]

Unless and until Joga has multiple teams making the state cup finals (U13 and higher) I would never consider the program versus other established NoVA programs.

[Anonymous]

Messi played soccer constantly. In this day and place, there aren't those opportunities to just go outside and play pickup all afternoon. DS plays for FPYC and so trains with Joga trainers. Joga's players aren't spending hours doing drills. They're scrimmaging and mini games designed to reinforce possession skills.

I'm not endorsing the parents' behavior, and I don't know if so many tournaments is a good or bad thing. I know the kids enjoy getting out there and testing out possession style in game situations.

And I'd take issue with an earlier comment that games test whether what you're doing is working. DS's coaches are very committed to possession, and it's tough to master at young ages. DS's team does not always win, and at times they are beaten by teams playing direct soccer who have a few big, fast players. That doesn't mean DS's team isn't doing the right thing for the long term.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unless and until Joga has multiple teams making the state cup finals (U13 and higher) I would never consider the program versus other established NoVA programs.

I'm not sure why number of State Cup wins is an important criterion. You can tell from watching the videos they've posted that the Joga boys are learning a very good style of play. The fact that Joga and the 3four3 guy are attention mongers on twitter (incidentally, the Joga guy seems much more thoughtful and insightful in his comments on the 3four3 blog), doesn't mean that they don't know how to do a great job coaching players and teaching the game. I'm not sure I could deal with my kid playing on a team where the parents are as over the top as the olé guy, but I'd certainly consider sending him if Joga offered summer camps or other training.