Woman charged with felony for having a stillbirth

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She is not being charged with having a stillborn. She is being charged for abuse of a corpse for leaving the dead baby in the toilet.

Still stupid. She had a miscarriage. The "baby" was never alive. She was probably not feeling great, confused, panicked, etc. There was likely blood, she didn't know what to do. Hell, maybe it was too slippery to pick up. Maybe she felt faint. Why the hell should someone be subjected to criminal prosecution for this?

Because most of the people in this world hate women.

Because she is not subject to criminal prosecution for that. Not alive baby is a corpse, and you cannot just disasamble any dead body the way you feel like (to chop it in the pieces and put it in the freezer or to flush it in the toilet). That what she is charged with.

So you think this should be prosecuted as a felony?

If that state has this law, then yes, it should be prosecuted. We cannot just disregard the law. If there will be evidence that she is incompetent to stand a trial or that she was in such condition that she was not understanding what she is doing, then the judge or jury should find her not guilty. We cannot just let all criminals walk around just because we disagree with the law. If we want to follow the rule of law, then we have to follow the legal process.

Hope you are prepared to start investigating a lot of women then.

And I hope that the PP takes the lead in researching all of the different laws throughout the US — as well as noting the places that likely have no relevant laws — and prepares inserts that can be attached to period products so that everyone impacted by these laws will have the opportunity to know how they might potentially be impacted.

PP — when “rule of law” means what mostly white, mostly male, mostly Fundamentalist Christian lawmakers seek to impose on the rest of us, it really is ok to stop venerating its validity.

I’m Black and female and old enough to get that the “rule of law” can be deliberately abused— and really isn’t the same thing as justice.

Yes. She is almost certainly being prosecuted for being poor, black & pregnant when she shouldn’t have been.

[Anonymous]

So if I understand this sad story correctly-the woman had gone to the hospital, twice, and was told that the baby was not alive, and her water had broken-but she was sent away both times.

She then delivered the deceased baby on the toilet and tried to flush it down but it got stuck in the pipes.

The whole story is very sad. I have to assume that this woman wasn't thinking clearly at that time. I don't think she was trying to do something criminal, she did go to the hospital twice so that shows she was not being neglectful of the situation. I wonder if she literally just did not know what else to do and panicked.

The hospital should be investigated for not admitting her with the rupurted membranes.

[Anonymous]

Check out what they tell you to do in England.

https://www.liverpoolwomens.nhs.uk/media/3386/disposal-of-pregnancy-remains-following-miscarriage-at-home-leaflet.pdf

"If you miscarry at home you are very likely to pass the remains of your pregnancy into the
toilet. You may look at what has come away and see a pregnancy sac and/or a very early
baby (we call this a fetus) – or something you think might a be a fetus. If you complete your
miscarriage at home you have no obligation to dispose of the pregnancy remains in any
particular way. You might want to simply flush the toilet – many people do that automatically.
If you prefer to dispose of the remains the way you normally dispose of sanitary waste this is
a personal choice and there are no regulations to prevent you doing whatever feels right for
you.

[Anonymous]

Cases like this are why I’m politically pro-choice though my values are pro-life. Our healthcare system is fundamentally broken. She never should have been sent home to deal with this on her own. She was failed by our medical system and that’s who should be facing prosecution, not her.

I’m even more dismayed by the women on here without compassion for her and her circumstances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: So if I understand this sad story correctly-the woman had gone to the hospital, twice, and was told that the baby was not alive, and her water had broken-but she was sent away both times.

She then delivered the deceased baby on the toilet and tried to flush it down but it got stuck in the pipes.

The whole story is very sad. I have to assume that this woman wasn't thinking clearly at that time. I don't think she was trying to do something criminal, she did go to the hospital twice so that shows she was not being neglectful of the situation. I wonder if she literally just did not know what else to do and panicked.

The hospital should be investigated for not admitting her with the rupurted membranes.

I totally agree with all of this.

[Anonymous]

Doesn't something need personhood to then be able to say it's desecration of a corpse? Is that the whole point of this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: So if I understand this sad story correctly-the woman had gone to the hospital, twice, and was told that the baby was not alive, and her water had broken-but she was sent away both times.

She then delivered the deceased baby on the toilet and tried to flush it down but it got stuck in the pipes.

The whole story is very sad. I have to assume that this woman wasn't thinking clearly at that time. I don't think she was trying to do something criminal, she did go to the hospital twice so that shows she was not being neglectful of the situation. I wonder if she literally just did not know what else to do and panicked.

The hospital should be investigated for not admitting her with the rupurted membranes.

I totally agree with all of this.

Also, by the way, if she went to the ER twice she will be charged for 2 co-pays. So even moreso shows she wasn't trying to kill this baby. But I don't think anyone has yet asserted she caused the death of this baby so I have no idea why the leap is then made that she should have been charged with anything. Makes zero sense.

[Anonymous]

And here's a bunch of women online (ten years ago) talking about flushing their miscarriages.

https://community.babycenter.com/post/a46424752/anyone_flush_their_baby_down_the_toilet

[Anonymous]

"As it was happening, I would say to the doctors: “What should I do?” and they would say: “Flush it down the toilet.”


https://www.the-sun.com/lifestyle/5038516/doctors-flush-toilet-miscarried/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I looked up the definition of a stillbirth and the WHO says it’s 28 weeks. So, unless Ohio has a different legal definition this was a miscarriage.

Heartbreaking, but legally not the same.

Do miscarriage remains have to be disposed of in a particular way? Are they treated differently than stillborn remains?

A baby at 22 weeks gestation is not the same as a first-term miscarriage. This is what those of you who haven't been through do not understand. It's sad. So many of us go through trials in life and delivering a non-viable baby is something many of us have endured. I held and told my baby I loved her. In a million years, despite the pain, shock, and sadness of what I was going through would I ever have dreamed of flushing it down the toilet. It's very sad for this woman. Going through hard times in life does not excuse disgusting behavior. Maybe it doesn't need to be a felony, but she needs to be investigated. Because it isn't normal, ethical, human behavior to flush a baby at 22 weeks gestation down the toilet. Again, if you haven't delivered or seen one in person, you simply can't understand.

News flash: your personal experience of loss, and your personal sense of what is “normal” and even “disgusting “ is not universal. It really isn’t. It’s wild to me that someone going on about what others “simply can’t understand “ has so little compassion and empathy for a situation that clearly is beyond your own ability to either imagine or understand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Doesn't something need personhood to then be able to say it's desecration of a corpse? Is that the whole point of this?

Yes. They are pushing to give fetuses more rights than the women who carry them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Doesn't something need personhood to then be able to say it's desecration of a corpse? Is that the whole point of this?

Sort of.
The males involved are judging and condeming her for not treating her fetus like a baby and a person. To flush a BABY down a toilet is disgusting and heartless (even though these ignoramouses don't seem to realize women flush miscarriages all the time).

So even though the fetus was already dead, and even though most reasonable people flush a miscarriage, she got caught by the plumbing and now these horrified men have to make an example of her.

Can you imagine a world where men had the miscarriages?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She is not being charged with having a stillborn. She is being charged for abuse of a corpse for leaving the dead baby in the toilet.

Still stupid. She had a miscarriage. The "baby" was never alive. She was probably not feeling great, confused, panicked, etc. There was likely blood, she didn't know what to do. Hell, maybe it was too slippery to pick up. Maybe she felt faint. Why the hell should someone be subjected to criminal prosecution for this?

Because most of the people in this world hate women.

Because she is not subject to criminal prosecution for that. Not alive baby is a corpse, and you cannot just disasamble any dead body the way you feel like (to chop it in the pieces and put it in the freezer or to flush it in the toilet). That what she is charged with.

So you think this should be prosecuted as a felony?

If that state has this law, then yes, it should be prosecuted. We cannot just disregard the law. If there will be evidence that she is incompetent to stand a trial or that she was in such condition that she was not understanding what she is doing, then the judge or jury should find her not guilty. We cannot just let all criminals walk around just because we disagree with the law. If we want to follow the rule of law, then we have to follow the legal process.

Hope you are prepared to start investigating a lot of women then.

And I hope that the PP takes the lead in researching all of the different laws throughout the US — as well as noting the places that likely have no relevant laws — and prepares inserts that can be attached to period products so that everyone impacted by these laws will have the opportunity to know how they might potentially be impacted.

PP — when “rule of law” means what mostly white, mostly male, mostly Fundamentalist Christian lawmakers seek to impose on the rest of us, it really is ok to stop venerating its validity.

I’m Black and female and old enough to get that the “rule of law” can be deliberately abused— and really isn’t the same thing as justice.

Word

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's pretty clear this prosecution is about getting a case on the record that gives personhood to a 2nd trimester fetus.

Yup. So a DEAD second trimester fetus will have more rights to its bodily autonomy than a living human woman. MAGA!

I love all you people coming on here who have never held a second-trimester fetus. Once it is outside the uterus it is no longer a fetus, it is a baby. I held my 22 week baby, the nurse dressed her, and took photos. Yes, that baby is worth the dignity of not being flushed down the toilet. It has nothing to do with being "MAGA," it has to do with being a mother. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, human about flushing a baby down the toilet. You haven't seen a baby outside the uterus at that stage of gestation, so I suggest you keep your small-minded, uninformed opinion to yourself.

Very sorry about your baby. At least you had the luxury of being in a hospital to receive care, painkillers, deliver her on a bed, and where a nurse cleaned and dressed her to give back you to to hold. That is right and proper.

No one sent you home to deliver your preemie into a toilet with the expectations of you having fish it out with your own hand amidst all the blood, clots, uterine tissue, placenta, fecal matter, urine, and toilet paper in the water.

When you've experienced that horror story, without having any spouse or friendly faces next to you to help you out, come back and tell us about how we are all inhuman for supporting a woman who did go through it.

Oh, but they did send me home. Ten hours later when the baby was actually coming, I went back. After dropping a ton of blood in the toilet, experiencing the unbearable pain of childbirth, I still had the wherewithal to go back.

Oh but did you immediately stick your hands in your toilet and fish around with them to see if a fetus fell in there?

You wouldn't know, because you haven't been through it. When delivering a baby at 22 weeks you are quite sure when the baby comes out. It is an incredibly painful process, like any unmedicated labor. And were it to come out and land in a toilet with a lot of blood, you still cannot miss it. It is the size of a small doll. It is not, as many people here want to believe, some ball of goo. It is a baby. I have pictures of mine. She could not possibly have not seen it and yes, it would be very very easy to "fish" it out and wrap it in a towel, as any caring, loving mother would. I have been through it. You have not.

How long was your baby dead before you delivered?

You delivered into a toilet?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Doesn't something need personhood to then be able to say it's desecration of a corpse? Is that the whole point of this?

I think so. That a Black woman is being publicly tormented to reach that point is probably just seen as a bonus by the people who are pushing this.