NFL Kicker Harrison Butker’s unhinged commencement speech

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Catholic dude saying catholic thing, at catholic school?

oh my

except the Catholic nuns disagree with him. I guess they aren't real Catholics.

Eh. They are all real Catholics. There are some basic principles and doctrine Catholics are supposed to agree with (or at least not publicly dissent from), but open debate on the rest is fine.

Except he disagrees with basic principles and doctrine of the Catholic teaching. So as a Christian, he’s fine as a Catholic he’s a heretic.

I’m not sure he’s a heretic but he sure as sh*t is not preaching some kind of mainstream Catholic doctrine. These aggro Church Militant types do love to pretend they are superior to all other Catholics though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Catholic dude saying catholic thing, at catholic school?

oh my

except the Catholic nuns disagree with him. I guess they aren't real Catholics.

Eh. They are all real Catholics. There are some basic principles and doctrine Catholics are supposed to agree with (or at least not publicly dissent from), but open debate on the rest is fine.

So the quip about a "Catholic dude saying catholic thing, at catholic school" can be debated since not all real Catholics agree with him.

Sure. Debating what he said is fair game. But it goes too far to say someone is not a real Catholic because he does not have the same views as you on matters that are not core required beliefs.

I would have changed what was said above to "Catholic dude saying his Catholic thing, at Catholic school"

You missed the part where he speaks against basic Catholic teachings. So yeah, the dude is a Catholic, but he’s similar to a Catholic that had an abortion For convenience , or got divorced, and hold them up as good Catholic teachings.

Which basic principles or doctrines did he speak against? Did he say anything contrary to the Nicene Creed? Did he publicly doubt the concept of original sin or sin itself? Did he question the sacraments or the authority of the Pope? Did he speak out against transubstantiation?

NFP and what roles women should play or not in the world simply are not basic doctrine. Having very non-mainstream views on those things are not a sin, but an abortion of convenience is. And he did not present his kooky takes as Catholic teaching, but his views.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the ones who remain uncritical and accepting of this AHole's speech..

This guy said a lot of things and maybe you agree with most of it and don't believe it was offensive. However, what he DID SAY EXACTLY was that:

Women have their place in the world and that is as a homemaker. Someone who should NOT have a career/NOT make a career an option and only aspire to be a mother and wife.

For this alone, it's offensive. There were women in this school who intend to use their degrees they just received to build a career. How do you actually defend his speech in the context of this? That it's a conservative Christian school is irrelevant because his speech was not just about Christianity but specifically demeaning all female students in the audience - he's suggesting they not only wasted their time but are garbage for even considering having a career.

I mean, it's not about his entire speech that matters. No matter how you slice it and dice it about whether what he said was on pointe about Christianity, his words about women are an indisputable insult to the female audience and that in itself is outrageous. That those who defend him don't even see this or care about this is what is wrong with our society.

That is NOT exactly what he said.

Here is what he said, emphasis added:

“ How many of you are sitting here now about to cross this stage and are thinking about all the promotions and titles you are going to get in your career? Some of you may go on to lead successful careers in the world, [/b]but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world.”

***
“ I can tell you that my beautiful wife, Isabelle, would be the first to say[b] that her life truly started when she began living her vocation as a wife and as a mother.”

As a woman who was once 21 and as the mother of a 21 y.o. female college student, I can guarantee you that the last thing the vast majority of college-educated women that age are thinking about is marriage and children. Who is he to speak for the "majority" of women?

When he said the "majority of you" he was specifically reference the female graduates of a conservative Catholic college, not all female college graduates across the U.S. In this case, the "guess" he is venturing could well be correct.

The majority of young women graduating from even a Catholic college are not eagerly awaiting the day they can have back-to-back babies for the remainder of their fertile years. It’s hard to understate just how fringe a view it is that even NFP is “disordered.” You realize that being subservient to your husband + no masturbation + no NFP = having 10+ pregnancies, if not more?

Exceedingly few 21 year old women want to be pregnant every 12-24 months until menopause.

Those exceedingly few women congregate at schools like Benedictine, University of Dallas and Franciscan University in Steubenville.

I’ve attended mass at one of those schools when I was passing through town and the pews were full of 6+ children families and women with lace head coverings. The parking lots are packed with those 15 seater vans. This is a fact that anybody who has even marginally looked into it would understand. Those schools are at the forefront of conservative Catholic education. Their graduates are engaged and/or married at a much higher rate at graduation as they send a measurable number of students to seminary and monastery every year.

There is a reason why he got a standing ovation.

They have 6 kids and not 12. They use NFP.

His views on NFP are kooky but not blasphemous or heretical, so I defend his right to espouse them. And everyone else's right to ignore them.

Okay then I can say abortion is not murder in a speech to catholic women and it's not heretical?

These are not at all equivalent. NFP is something Catholics may do, but are not required to do. Abortion is something Catholics may not do.

Also Catholicism does not opine on whether an act is criminal, which murder is, or not. That is up to the law. It opines only on whether something is a sin.

He said women shall NOT use NFP. He said it’s an unnatural choice, hence immoral. He sad it’s NOT a choice.

That is dangerous and wrong and immoral to state.

He did not say "women shall NOT use NFP." He said: "No matter how you spin it, there is nothing natural about Catholic birth control." He even called it "Catholic"....

How is NFP not “natural”? Weird comment to make.

[Anonymous]

Why are people still talking about this misogynistic loser?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Catholic dude saying catholic thing, at catholic school?

oh my

except the Catholic nuns disagree with him. I guess they aren't real Catholics.

Eh. They are all real Catholics. There are some basic principles and doctrine Catholics are supposed to agree with (or at least not publicly dissent from), but open debate on the rest is fine.

So the quip about a "Catholic dude saying catholic thing, at catholic school" can be debated since not all real Catholics agree with him.

Sure. Debating what he said is fair game. But it goes too far to say someone is not a real Catholic because he does not have the same views as you on matters that are not core required beliefs.

I would have changed what was said above to "Catholic dude saying his Catholic thing, at Catholic school"

You missed the part where he speaks against basic Catholic teachings. So yeah, the dude is a Catholic, but he’s similar to a Catholic that had an abortion For convenience , or got divorced, and hold them up as good Catholic teachings.

Which basic principles or doctrines did he speak against? Did he say anything contrary to the Nicene Creed? Did he publicly doubt the concept of original sin or sin itself? Did he question the sacraments or the authority of the Pope? Did he speak out against transubstantiation?

NFP and what roles women should play or not in the world simply are not basic doctrine. Having very non-mainstream views on those things are not a sin, but an abortion of convenience is. And he did not present his kooky takes as Catholic teaching, but his views.

Yes, he did say something against Catholic preaching. Jesus Christ for f**k sake. If you don’t see it, you’re not a Catholic.

There is no way you are Catholic and you didn’t see that.

I wish non-Catholics would stop commenting on this thread because they are so incredibly ignorant. It’s almost impossible to speak to them about the subject.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Catholic dude saying catholic thing, at catholic school?

oh my

except the Catholic nuns disagree with him. I guess they aren't real Catholics.

Eh. They are all real Catholics. There are some basic principles and doctrine Catholics are supposed to agree with (or at least not publicly dissent from), but open debate on the rest is fine.

Except he disagrees with basic principles and doctrine of the Catholic teaching. So as a Christian, he’s fine as a Catholic he’s a heretic.

I’m not sure he’s a heretic but he sure as sh*t is not preaching some kind of mainstream Catholic doctrine. These aggro Church Militant types do love to pretend they are superior to all other Catholics though.

Yeah, he’s a heretic. Look up the definition and then listen to his speech.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Catholic dude saying catholic thing, at catholic school?

oh my

except the Catholic nuns disagree with him. I guess they aren't real Catholics.

Eh. They are all real Catholics. There are some basic principles and doctrine Catholics are supposed to agree with (or at least not publicly dissent from), but open debate on the rest is fine.

So the quip about a "Catholic dude saying catholic thing, at catholic school" can be debated since not all real Catholics agree with him.

Sure. Debating what he said is fair game. But it goes too far to say someone is not a real Catholic because he does not have the same views as you on matters that are not core required beliefs.

I would have changed what was said above to "Catholic dude saying his Catholic thing, at Catholic school"

You missed the part where he speaks against basic Catholic teachings. So yeah, the dude is a Catholic, but he’s similar to a Catholic that had an abortion For convenience , or got divorced, and hold them up as good Catholic teachings.

Which basic principles or doctrines did he speak against? Did he say anything contrary to the Nicene Creed? Did he publicly doubt the concept of original sin or sin itself? Did he question the sacraments or the authority of the Pope? Did he speak out against transubstantiation?

NFP and what roles women should play or not in the world simply are not basic doctrine. Having very non-mainstream views on those things are not a sin, but an abortion of convenience is. And he did not present his kooky takes as Catholic teaching, but his views.

Yes, he did say something against Catholic preaching. Jesus Christ for f**k sake. If you don’t see it, you’re not a Catholic.

There is no way you are Catholic and you didn’t see that.

I wish non-Catholics would stop commenting on this thread because they are so incredibly ignorant. It’s almost impossible to speak to them about the subject.

I'm a catholic, catholic educated, married catholic, children baptized catholic catholic. He said catholic things. Nothing he said was outside of mainstream catholic teachings.

[Anonymous]

All the man did was remind people that they need to know their roles. When raising children someone should be home with them during their formative years and that both parents have roles to fulfill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Catholic dude saying catholic thing, at catholic school?

oh my

except the Catholic nuns disagree with him. I guess they aren't real Catholics.

Eh. They are all real Catholics. There are some basic principles and doctrine Catholics are supposed to agree with (or at least not publicly dissent from), but open debate on the rest is fine.

So the quip about a "Catholic dude saying catholic thing, at catholic school" can be debated since not all real Catholics agree with him.

Sure. Debating what he said is fair game. But it goes too far to say someone is not a real Catholic because he does not have the same views as you on matters that are not core required beliefs.

I would have changed what was said above to "Catholic dude saying his Catholic thing, at Catholic school"

You missed the part where he speaks against basic Catholic teachings. So yeah, the dude is a Catholic, but he’s similar to a Catholic that had an abortion For convenience , or got divorced, and hold them up as good Catholic teachings.

Which basic principles or doctrines did he speak against? Did he say anything contrary to the Nicene Creed? Did he publicly doubt the concept of original sin or sin itself? Did he question the sacraments or the authority of the Pope? Did he speak out against transubstantiation?

NFP and what roles women should play or not in the world simply are not basic doctrine. Having very non-mainstream views on those things are not a sin, but an abortion of convenience is. And he did not present his kooky takes as Catholic teaching, but his views.

Yes, he did say something against Catholic preaching. Jesus Christ for f**k sake. If you don’t see it, you’re not a Catholic.

There is no way you are Catholic and you didn’t see that.

I wish non-Catholics would stop commenting on this thread because they are so incredibly ignorant. It’s almost impossible to speak to them about the subject.

I'm a catholic, catholic educated, married catholic, children baptized catholic catholic. He said catholic things. Nothing he said was outside of mainstream catholic teachings.

Then you are completely ignorant Catholic.

Do you know your highest calling is to serve God?

Do you think natural family planning is disordered?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Catholic dude saying catholic thing, at catholic school?

oh my

except the Catholic nuns disagree with him. I guess they aren't real Catholics.

Eh. They are all real Catholics. There are some basic principles and doctrine Catholics are supposed to agree with (or at least not publicly dissent from), but open debate on the rest is fine.

So the quip about a "Catholic dude saying catholic thing, at catholic school" can be debated since not all real Catholics agree with him.

Sure. Debating what he said is fair game. But it goes too far to say someone is not a real Catholic because he does not have the same views as you on matters that are not core required beliefs.

I would have changed what was said above to "Catholic dude saying his Catholic thing, at Catholic school"

You missed the part where he speaks against basic Catholic teachings. So yeah, the dude is a Catholic, but he’s similar to a Catholic that had an abortion For convenience , or got divorced, and hold them up as good Catholic teachings.

Which basic principles or doctrines did he speak against? Did he say anything contrary to the Nicene Creed? Did he publicly doubt the concept of original sin or sin itself? Did he question the sacraments or the authority of the Pope? Did he speak out against transubstantiation?

NFP and what roles women should play or not in the world simply are not basic doctrine. Having very non-mainstream views on those things are not a sin, but an abortion of convenience is. And he did not present his kooky takes as Catholic teaching, but his views.

Yes, he did say something against Catholic preaching. Jesus Christ for f**k sake. If you don’t see it, you’re not a Catholic.

There is no way you are Catholic and you didn’t see that.

I wish non-Catholics would stop commenting on this thread because they are so incredibly ignorant. It’s almost impossible to speak to them about the subject.

I'm a catholic, catholic educated, married catholic, children baptized catholic catholic. He said catholic things. Nothing he said was outside of mainstream catholic teachings.

Yes, Christine Ignatius Loyola O’Connell you can cheat off my test in religion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Catholic dude saying catholic thing, at catholic school?

oh my

except the Catholic nuns disagree with him. I guess they aren't real Catholics.

Eh. They are all real Catholics. There are some basic principles and doctrine Catholics are supposed to agree with (or at least not publicly dissent from), but open debate on the rest is fine.

So the quip about a "Catholic dude saying catholic thing, at catholic school" can be debated since not all real Catholics agree with him.

Sure. Debating what he said is fair game. But it goes too far to say someone is not a real Catholic because he does not have the same views as you on matters that are not core required beliefs.

I would have changed what was said above to "Catholic dude saying his Catholic thing, at Catholic school"

You missed the part where he speaks against basic Catholic teachings. So yeah, the dude is a Catholic, but he’s similar to a Catholic that had an abortion For convenience , or got divorced, and hold them up as good Catholic teachings.

Which basic principles or doctrines did he speak against? Did he say anything contrary to the Nicene Creed? Did he publicly doubt the concept of original sin or sin itself? Did he question the sacraments or the authority of the Pope? Did he speak out against transubstantiation?

NFP and what roles women should play or not in the world simply are not basic doctrine. Having very non-mainstream views on those things are not a sin, but an abortion of convenience is. And he did not present his kooky takes as Catholic teaching, but his views.

Yes, he did say something against Catholic preaching. Jesus Christ for f**k sake. If you don’t see it, you’re not a Catholic.

There is no way you are Catholic and you didn’t see that.

I wish non-Catholics would stop commenting on this thread because they are so incredibly ignorant. It’s almost impossible to speak to them about the subject.

I am the Catholic you are calling a non-Catholic. If you are Catholic, I question your Catholic education as you don't seem to understand the wide latitude the Church gives for personal views on matters that are not core doctrine. I did think the guy almost verged into Calvinism at one point, which I thought was questionable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Catholic dude saying catholic thing, at catholic school?

oh my

except the Catholic nuns disagree with him. I guess they aren't real Catholics.

Eh. They are all real Catholics. There are some basic principles and doctrine Catholics are supposed to agree with (or at least not publicly dissent from), but open debate on the rest is fine.

So the quip about a "Catholic dude saying catholic thing, at catholic school" can be debated since not all real Catholics agree with him.

Sure. Debating what he said is fair game. But it goes too far to say someone is not a real Catholic because he does not have the same views as you on matters that are not core required beliefs.

I would have changed what was said above to "Catholic dude saying his Catholic thing, at Catholic school"

You missed the part where he speaks against basic Catholic teachings. So yeah, the dude is a Catholic, but he’s similar to a Catholic that had an abortion For convenience , or got divorced, and hold them up as good Catholic teachings.

Which basic principles or doctrines did he speak against? Did he say anything contrary to the Nicene Creed? Did he publicly doubt the concept of original sin or sin itself? Did he question the sacraments or the authority of the Pope? Did he speak out against transubstantiation?

NFP and what roles women should play or not in the world simply are not basic doctrine. Having very non-mainstream views on those things are not a sin, but an abortion of convenience is. And he did not present his kooky takes as Catholic teaching, but his views.

Yes, he did say something against Catholic preaching. Jesus Christ for f**k sake. If you don’t see it, you’re not a Catholic.

There is no way you are Catholic and you didn’t see that.

I wish non-Catholics would stop commenting on this thread because they are so incredibly ignorant. It’s almost impossible to speak to them about the subject.

I am the Catholic you are calling a non-Catholic. If you are Catholic, I question your Catholic education as you don't seem to understand the wide latitude the Church gives for personal views on matters that are not core doctrine. I did think the guy almost verged into Calvinism at one point, which I thought was questionable.

Yes, he has spouses Christian views that are not Catholic very much so no duh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Catholic dude saying catholic thing, at catholic school?

oh my

except the Catholic nuns disagree with him. I guess they aren't real Catholics.

Eh. They are all real Catholics. There are some basic principles and doctrine Catholics are supposed to agree with (or at least not publicly dissent from), but open debate on the rest is fine.

So the quip about a "Catholic dude saying catholic thing, at catholic school" can be debated since not all real Catholics agree with him.

Sure. Debating what he said is fair game. But it goes too far to say someone is not a real Catholic because he does not have the same views as you on matters that are not core required beliefs.

I would have changed what was said above to "Catholic dude saying his Catholic thing, at Catholic school"

You missed the part where he speaks against basic Catholic teachings. So yeah, the dude is a Catholic, but he’s similar to a Catholic that had an abortion For convenience , or got divorced, and hold them up as good Catholic teachings.

Which basic principles or doctrines did he speak against? Did he say anything contrary to the Nicene Creed? Did he publicly doubt the concept of original sin or sin itself? Did he question the sacraments or the authority of the Pope? Did he speak out against transubstantiation?

NFP and what roles women should play or not in the world simply are not basic doctrine. Having very non-mainstream views on those things are not a sin, but an abortion of convenience is. And he did not present his kooky takes as Catholic teaching, but his views.

LOL, “abortion of convenience.” Just keep showing us how you understand nothing about reproduction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Catholic dude saying catholic thing, at catholic school?

oh my

except the Catholic nuns disagree with him. I guess they aren't real Catholics.

Eh. They are all real Catholics. There are some basic principles and doctrine Catholics are supposed to agree with (or at least not publicly dissent from), but open debate on the rest is fine.

So the quip about a "Catholic dude saying catholic thing, at catholic school" can be debated since not all real Catholics agree with him.

Sure. Debating what he said is fair game. But it goes too far to say someone is not a real Catholic because he does not have the same views as you on matters that are not core required beliefs.

I would have changed what was said above to "Catholic dude saying his Catholic thing, at Catholic school"

You missed the part where he speaks against basic Catholic teachings. So yeah, the dude is a Catholic, but he’s similar to a Catholic that had an abortion For convenience , or got divorced, and hold them up as good Catholic teachings.

Which basic principles or doctrines did he speak against? Did he say anything contrary to the Nicene Creed? Did he publicly doubt the concept of original sin or sin itself? Did he question the sacraments or the authority of the Pope? Did he speak out against transubstantiation?

NFP and what roles women should play or not in the world simply are not basic doctrine. Having very non-mainstream views on those things are not a sin, but an abortion of convenience is. And he did not present his kooky takes as Catholic teaching, but his views.

Yes, he did say something against Catholic preaching. Jesus Christ for f**k sake. If you don’t see it, you’re not a Catholic.

There is no way you are Catholic and you didn’t see that.

I wish non-Catholics would stop commenting on this thread because they are so incredibly ignorant. It’s almost impossible to speak to them about the subject.

I'm a catholic, catholic educated, married catholic, children baptized catholic catholic. He said catholic things. Nothing he said was outside of mainstream catholic teachings.

Yes it was. “Jews killed Jesus” is not mainstream nor is saying IVF and NFP are disordered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Catholic dude saying catholic thing, at catholic school?

oh my

except the Catholic nuns disagree with him. I guess they aren't real Catholics.

Eh. They are all real Catholics. There are some basic principles and doctrine Catholics are supposed to agree with (or at least not publicly dissent from), but open debate on the rest is fine.

So the quip about a "Catholic dude saying catholic thing, at catholic school" can be debated since not all real Catholics agree with him.

Sure. Debating what he said is fair game. But it goes too far to say someone is not a real Catholic because he does not have the same views as you on matters that are not core required beliefs.

I would have changed what was said above to "Catholic dude saying his Catholic thing, at Catholic school"

You missed the part where he speaks against basic Catholic teachings. So yeah, the dude is a Catholic, but he’s similar to a Catholic that had an abortion For convenience , or got divorced, and hold them up as good Catholic teachings.

Which basic principles or doctrines did he speak against? Did he say anything contrary to the Nicene Creed? Did he publicly doubt the concept of original sin or sin itself? Did he question the sacraments or the authority of the Pope? Did he speak out against transubstantiation?

NFP and what roles women should play or not in the world simply are not basic doctrine. Having very non-mainstream views on those things are not a sin, but an abortion of convenience is. And he did not present his kooky takes as Catholic teaching, but his views.

Yes, he did say something against Catholic preaching. Jesus Christ for f**k sake. If you don’t see it, you’re not a Catholic.

There is no way you are Catholic and you didn’t see that.

I wish non-Catholics would stop commenting on this thread because they are so incredibly ignorant. It’s almost impossible to speak to them about the subject.

I am the Catholic you are calling a non-Catholic. If you are Catholic, I question your Catholic education as you don't seem to understand the wide latitude the Church gives for personal views on matters that are not core doctrine. I did think the guy almost verged into Calvinism at one point, which I thought was questionable.

DP. I don’t know the canon definition of heresy but he certainly said a lot of stuff that seems like it could warrant some kind of censure. Attacking priests. Attacking Humanae Vitae. Suggesting women’s vocation is to their husband and not god. Going against multiple Church pronouncements that the Jews are not guilty of the crucifixion.