Anonymous wrote:Why are American Jews cloaked in the Israeli flag? They were rallying for Israel, not anything in America. I don’t understand the Americans waving Palestinian flags either. What happened to being American?
Do you care about American hostages of Hamas?
I do. But wave the American flag then.
A lot of people had both flags today, or mash up flags of American and Israeli
Anonymous wrote:It is no longer possible to say Israel has done no wrong
It was never possible. Israel was created on stolen Palestinian land 75 years ago. This truth is always conveniently left out when westerners discuss the Mideast conflict.
Stolen by the UN?
By the British. And treacherously promised to two peoples to win their allyship.
Anonymous wrote:Can we stop with Israelis/Jews being white? Some are and some are not.
It is a very important point because it calls the Israeli/Jewish population for capitalizing on their inherent racial privilege. It is also how Israel is able to manipulate so much media. The Western world has significant implicit (and overt) bias against Arabs and Muslims and Israel takes advantage because they are generally white and Euro looking.
The media is decidedly pro-Palestinian. What are you even talking about?
And Israelis are NOT generally white and "Euro-looking", whatever that means.
Jews are white. Israeli propaganda machine banks on that to garner sympathy in the western world. People like you don't care much about brown people so how on Earth would Israel finagle so much money out of the US tax payer without leveraging race?
Folks, we have now entered the post-post parody stage of posts, with posts like this.
Anonymous wrote:Tens of thousands of people marching to celebrate genocide. No one is going to convinced to support Israel from this stunt. If anything, it’s the opposite.
I mean this rally could have been named, “Support for genocide” I mean do people have no shame these days???
Obviously you aren’t there or you wouldn’t say this. Absolutely no one is marching to support genocide and almost every speaker has mentioned innocent Palestinian lives lost and hopes for peace in the region. Sorry that it doesn’t fit in with your narrative.
Zionism explicitly calls for genocide. This march was all for the complete abolition of the Palestinian people and their removal from their generational homeland. Yes, we save Van Jones call for peace - and then we saw the pro-genocide crowd break into "no ceasefire" chants.
These people are complete and utter monsters. I don't think there's anyway that Israel can recover its image from this - at least not from those that believe in human rights. The far right and evangelicals love it because they also believe in mass extermination of those that they deem unworthy. Couldn't have found better bedfellows.
You are completely delusional.
What I call delusional are the pro-genocide denialists who pretend like they haven't been in favor of displacing millions of Palestinians from their homes. When you takeover land that has millions of native inhabitants, what do you think will happen to them? Zionism is colonialism and we should not be having valid discussions on these issues in 2023. The fact that you believe the right of Palestinians born and raised in the region can be displaced by immigrants from Europe and the US who had not stepped foot in Palestinian for 2000 years is shocking and abhorrent.
We need to start calling Israel out for the war crimes and terrorism that it has undertaken daily for the past 75 years.
The Palestinians could have had their own state, but they rejected it and launched a new intifada. The Israelis left the Gaza Strip in 2005, and Hamas decided to turn it into a terrorism factory, rather than improve life for their own people. They are largely reaping what they sowed.
You're just another empty-headed progressive, bleating vapid propaganda phrases. Your understanding of history, or lack thereof, is just embarrassing and sad. You should go back to tearing down posters of kidnapped Israeli kids and threatening Jewish college girls, rather than trying to talk with adults.
Honestly, STFU. We're so tired of these lies. Israel offered crap terms with no right of return, no safety for Palestinians and no right to E Jerusalem. There were zero bona fide efforts by them. Israel deliberately gave crappy deals so that people like you could then say "but but the Palestinians!!!".
Israelis are murderous terrorists who stole land and killed natives. They've been on a misinformation binge for 75 years trying to rewrite history to center them as the victims. It is BS and we are not buying it any more. Everything that Israel has claimed has been a lie and we have seen it in real time.
While you cry for another genocide, we're trying to prevent it. We know what side of history that you are on.
Listen, kid, I'm not some Jewish college student you and your Hamas-loving buddies can bully and scare into silence.
You've been brainwashed by anti-Semitic propaganda, and now go around bleating catchphrases that you think make you look deep and progressive. You're just embarrassing yourself at this point. You probably list your pronouns in all your social media, and begin every meeting with a land acknowledgment.
Your Hamas homies are now discovering that it's a lot less fun to face the IDF, as opposed to murdering and raping unarmed teenagers and the elderly.
No, I've actually read the history. Jews landed from Europe to settle the Palestinian Territory. There were millions of natives there. They killed and displaced them. They burned villages, stole homes, raped women and forced thousands into exile. They've since forced the remaining natives into a military dictatorship and apartheid.
how you guys continue to support that becuase you are the "chosen ones" is really beyond any normal comprehension. It is kool-aid level cult derangement.
Why would a bunch of white Europeans spend nearly a hundred years fighting over a pile of sand in the middle east?
Hint: that's where they're actually from. They were in Europe because they were exiled there.
This is so ridiculous. My ancestors came across the Bering Straight when it was a block of ice. Do I get to kill Russians and Chinese to take their land?
Were you exiled from Russia?
Sure! I bet they were all kicked out. Does that mean I get to call for genocide? Seems a pretty easy pass. We would all get to engage in ethnic cleansing that way. What a great way to bond as a people. I guess when you have no sense of morality, it tracks
Why aren’t the Jews kicking the Germans and Poles off the land? They’re the ones who conducted the Holocaust. They should have to cede their land to pay for their crimes.
Jews aren't from Germany and Poland.
Wut. You must think we’re crazy. That is absolutely where Ashkenazi Jews are from. That’s why Yiddish is a Germanic language.
Why didn't Jews in Germany just speak German then?
Because those Jews WHO WERE IN GERMANY were a distinct ethnic group IN GERMANY. There were also Jews in Palestine during the Holocaust. They were not in Germany. In fact there are Jews all over the world. And yet it was the Jews who lived in Europe who suffered the horrors. So let Europe pay for it.
Glad you finally admitted that Jews aren't German, but just lived there.
Of course they were German. That’s the biggest horror of the Holocaust. That Europeans could do this to their own people. The fact that the Ashkenazi Jews were a victim of Nazis does not make them non-European. It makes them European victims of Europeans. What it does not make them is entitled to steal non-Europeans’ land.
The entire point of the Holocaust was that Hitler saw Jews as a different race of people. NO ONE saw Jews as European. Modern day Europeans probably still don't see them as European.
That may be. Let’s assume it’s true. It still isn’t the fault of the Palestinians.
We were talking about Jews being European or not. They are not.
They are indigenous to Israel/Palestine, just as Palestinians are.
Ashkenazi Jews came to Palestine from Europe. The Palestinians did not invite them. The English, in their infinite generosity, decided to gift Palestinian land to people from Europe. I don’t blame the European Jews for wanting a place to live, but I do blame them for cleansing the land of everyone but Jews.
First of all DNA tests prove that Ashkenazi Jews have nearly 100% Levantine paternal ancestry. The studies vary on the amount of Levantine maternal ancestry they have. It looks like during Roman times, Jewish men arrived, as slaves and as merchants, from Israel to Italy and many took local brides. The closest European group to Ashkenazi Jews are Italians and specifically Tuscans. But Ashkenazi Jews are most closely related to Sephardic Jews and then to Mizrahi Jews. They are not very related to Germans, although there’s some Central European ancestry, but it’s a minuscule amount.
DNA doesn’t lie. Ashkenazi Jews are Middle Eastern. Fact.
Secondly, the vast majority of Ashkenazi Jews live in the US, not Israel. The majority of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi. They have always lived in the Middle East. They have no connection to Europe at all.
Thirdly, over 20% of Israelis are Arabs, most of whom are Muslim. They didn’t listen to Arab leaders, who in their anger at the formation of Israel told them to leave, so that they could push the Jews into the sea. No, these Arabs chose to stay and they live peacefully in Israel. They are in the government, the judiciary, the World Cup team and many.of them are even in the IDF.
So, how exactly did the Ashkenazi’s come over to Israel and kick everyone else out? That’s just not true.
I'm only saying this because I find the whole premise of using 23andme absurd and I am disgusted by the story of the 10/7 victim family that was not allowed to be buried together in the Jewish cemetary.
Wouldn't paternal ancestry mean they are not Jewish, according to the Orthodox?
This isn’t 23andme. This is studied by scholars, geneticists and medical researchers from all over the world.
Not all of the maternal DNA is ancient European, just some of it is. The amount is disputed by the research.
Judaism doesn’t proselytize, but converts are fully accepted by the Orthodox if they take a Mikva and follow the 613 Mitvot. So, the descendants of women who converted to Judaism over 2,000 years ago and followed the Mitzvot are Jewish according to Jewish law.
I am not familiar with the sad situation you are talking about but Israel is a Jewish country and follows the Orthodox rules for marriage and burials. I don’t know what the situation is with the family you speak of, but they would have been aware of it.
Interesting. The story is quite simple, an entire family of 4 was killed. The father was not Jewish. They had to be buried "outside the fence" to stay together.
Anyway, I have now looked into these genetic studies and quite frankly it is very very weird how much research has been done on this.
The big takeaway is that according to genetic analysis based on Bronze age Canaanite remains the order of most Levantine is...
1. Bedouins
2. Christian Palestinians and Druze
3. Muslim Palestinians
4. Iraqis
5. Ashkenazi and
6. Sephardic.
I do not subscribe to the relevence of any of this. I think none of it matters because both sets of populations are there now and aren't going anywhere. But since there is someone on this thread that does care, and thinks it matters, I say to them that the Bedouins are far and away the most "indigenous" to the land and the Sephardic, unexpectedly, are the least.
You left out the Mizrahi Jews. Also, there is a lot of conflicting research on which group is most indigenous to the land. To the point that many scholars say it’s impossible to tell. The Torah itself shows the Jews arriving in the land of Canaanites. Likewise, the Arabs conquered it many, many years later. But it’s true that Jews and Iraqis and the Druze are apparently very, very closely related. Funny, huh?
The study did not include Mizrahi.
The archeological research, once again it is very very weird how much resources have been spent on this stuff, says that the Moses story is likely a myth and that the Israelites were in Canaan before the exodus.
It is interesting. But what was more interesting to me, because of the way this DNA argument is usually used, was that these studies all show that Palestinians are not mere Arab Yahya come latelys but are indeed the descendents of the original Levantine population.
As are the Jews! If you read the Bible, you’d see many different groups of people living in the same area and fighting. The Palestinians are descendants of Levantines, but they are also the descendants of Arab conquerors, just as Mexicans are descendants of both the Native Indigenous people and the Spanish conquerors.
A lot of these studies originated because researchers were trying to prove that Ashkenazi Jews were actually Khazar converts to Judaism, but the research shows they have no relation to the Caucasus region.
Israel is the Jewish homeland no matter how many people try to prove otherwise.
It creepy and weird. It’s a rally for Israel. Israel and US do not share values, language or religion. I guess they are doing it because keeps Israel in arms.
It’s a rally against antisemitism and the people there are Americans. Obviously you see them as other, but that’s ok because we see you for what you are.
+1 The people at this rally were American Jews. I don’t know what you do at your rallies that you think this is creepy and weird.
You know what they do at their rallies. Desecrate and vandalize DC monuments and White House fence.
They don't have to concern themselves with the police standing on their necks . . . Oh wait, that's being done to the Palestinians too.
Anonymous wrote:Tens of thousands of people marching to celebrate genocide. No one is going to convinced to support Israel from this stunt. If anything, it’s the opposite.
I mean this rally could have been named, “Support for genocide” I mean do people have no shame these days???
Obviously you aren’t there or you wouldn’t say this. Absolutely no one is marching to support genocide and almost every speaker has mentioned innocent Palestinian lives lost and hopes for peace in the region. Sorry that it doesn’t fit in with your narrative.
Zionism explicitly calls for genocide. This march was all for the complete abolition of the Palestinian people and their removal from their generational homeland. Yes, we save Van Jones call for peace - and then we saw the pro-genocide crowd break into "no ceasefire" chants.
These people are complete and utter monsters. I don't think there's anyway that Israel can recover its image from this - at least not from those that believe in human rights. The far right and evangelicals love it because they also believe in mass extermination of those that they deem unworthy. Couldn't have found better bedfellows.
You are completely delusional.
What I call delusional are the pro-genocide denialists who pretend like they haven't been in favor of displacing millions of Palestinians from their homes. When you takeover land that has millions of native inhabitants, what do you think will happen to them? Zionism is colonialism and we should not be having valid discussions on these issues in 2023. The fact that you believe the right of Palestinians born and raised in the region can be displaced by immigrants from Europe and the US who had not stepped foot in Palestinian for 2000 years is shocking and abhorrent.
We need to start calling Israel out for the war crimes and terrorism that it has undertaken daily for the past 75 years.
The Palestinians could have had their own state, but they rejected it and launched a new intifada. The Israelis left the Gaza Strip in 2005, and Hamas decided to turn it into a terrorism factory, rather than improve life for their own people. They are largely reaping what they sowed.
You're just another empty-headed progressive, bleating vapid propaganda phrases. Your understanding of history, or lack thereof, is just embarrassing and sad. You should go back to tearing down posters of kidnapped Israeli kids and threatening Jewish college girls, rather than trying to talk with adults.
Honestly, STFU. We're so tired of these lies. Israel offered crap terms with no right of return, no safety for Palestinians and no right to E Jerusalem. There were zero bona fide efforts by them. Israel deliberately gave crappy deals so that people like you could then say "but but the Palestinians!!!".
Israelis are murderous terrorists who stole land and killed natives. They've been on a misinformation binge for 75 years trying to rewrite history to center them as the victims. It is BS and we are not buying it any more. Everything that Israel has claimed has been a lie and we have seen it in real time.
While you cry for another genocide, we're trying to prevent it. We know what side of history that you are on.
Listen, kid, I'm not some Jewish college student you and your Hamas-loving buddies can bully and scare into silence.
You've been brainwashed by anti-Semitic propaganda, and now go around bleating catchphrases that you think make you look deep and progressive. You're just embarrassing yourself at this point. You probably list your pronouns in all your social media, and begin every meeting with a land acknowledgment.
Your Hamas homies are now discovering that it's a lot less fun to face the IDF, as opposed to murdering and raping unarmed teenagers and the elderly.
No, I've actually read the history. Jews landed from Europe to settle the Palestinian Territory. There were millions of natives there. They killed and displaced them. They burned villages, stole homes, raped women and forced thousands into exile. They've since forced the remaining natives into a military dictatorship and apartheid.
how you guys continue to support that becuase you are the "chosen ones" is really beyond any normal comprehension. It is kool-aid level cult derangement.
Why would a bunch of white Europeans spend nearly a hundred years fighting over a pile of sand in the middle east?
Hint: that's where they're actually from. They were in Europe because they were exiled there.
This is so ridiculous. My ancestors came across the Bering Straight when it was a block of ice. Do I get to kill Russians and Chinese to take their land?
Were you exiled from Russia?
Sure! I bet they were all kicked out. Does that mean I get to call for genocide? Seems a pretty easy pass. We would all get to engage in ethnic cleansing that way. What a great way to bond as a people. I guess when you have no sense of morality, it tracks
Why aren’t the Jews kicking the Germans and Poles off the land? They’re the ones who conducted the Holocaust. They should have to cede their land to pay for their crimes.
Jews aren't from Germany and Poland.
Wut. You must think we’re crazy. That is absolutely where Ashkenazi Jews are from. That’s why Yiddish is a Germanic language.
Why didn't Jews in Germany just speak German then?
Because those Jews WHO WERE IN GERMANY were a distinct ethnic group IN GERMANY. There were also Jews in Palestine during the Holocaust. They were not in Germany. In fact there are Jews all over the world. And yet it was the Jews who lived in Europe who suffered the horrors. So let Europe pay for it.
Glad you finally admitted that Jews aren't German, but just lived there.
Of course they were German. That’s the biggest horror of the Holocaust. That Europeans could do this to their own people. The fact that the Ashkenazi Jews were a victim of Nazis does not make them non-European. It makes them European victims of Europeans. What it does not make them is entitled to steal non-Europeans’ land.
The entire point of the Holocaust was that Hitler saw Jews as a different race of people. NO ONE saw Jews as European. Modern day Europeans probably still don't see them as European.
That may be. Let’s assume it’s true. It still isn’t the fault of the Palestinians.
We were talking about Jews being European or not. They are not.
They are indigenous to Israel/Palestine, just as Palestinians are.
Ashkenazi Jews came to Palestine from Europe. The Palestinians did not invite them. The English, in their infinite generosity, decided to gift Palestinian land to people from Europe. I don’t blame the European Jews for wanting a place to live, but I do blame them for cleansing the land of everyone but Jews.
First of all DNA tests prove that Ashkenazi Jews have nearly 100% Levantine paternal ancestry. The studies vary on the amount of Levantine maternal ancestry they have. It looks like during Roman times, Jewish men arrived, as slaves and as merchants, from Israel to Italy and many took local brides. The closest European group to Ashkenazi Jews are Italians and specifically Tuscans. But Ashkenazi Jews are most closely related to Sephardic Jews and then to Mizrahi Jews. They are not very related to Germans, although there’s some Central European ancestry, but it’s a minuscule amount.
DNA doesn’t lie. Ashkenazi Jews are Middle Eastern. Fact.
Secondly, the vast majority of Ashkenazi Jews live in the US, not Israel. The majority of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi. They have always lived in the Middle East. They have no connection to Europe at all.
Thirdly, over 20% of Israelis are Arabs, most of whom are Muslim. They didn’t listen to Arab leaders, who in their anger at the formation of Israel told them to leave, so that they could push the Jews into the sea. No, these Arabs chose to stay and they live peacefully in Israel. They are in the government, the judiciary, the World Cup team and many.of them are even in the IDF.
So, how exactly did the Ashkenazi’s come over to Israel and kick everyone else out? That’s just not true.
I'm only saying this because I find the whole premise of using 23andme absurd and I am disgusted by the story of the 10/7 victim family that was not allowed to be buried together in the Jewish cemetary.
Wouldn't paternal ancestry mean they are not Jewish, according to the Orthodox?
This isn’t 23andme. This is studied by scholars, geneticists and medical researchers from all over the world.
Not all of the maternal DNA is ancient European, just some of it is. The amount is disputed by the research.
Judaism doesn’t proselytize, but converts are fully accepted by the Orthodox if they take a Mikva and follow the 613 Mitvot. So, the descendants of women who converted to Judaism over 2,000 years ago and followed the Mitzvot are Jewish according to Jewish law.
I am not familiar with the sad situation you are talking about but Israel is a Jewish country and follows the Orthodox rules for marriage and burials. I don’t know what the situation is with the family you speak of, but they would have been aware of it.
Interesting. The story is quite simple, an entire family of 4 was killed. The father was not Jewish. They had to be buried "outside the fence" to stay together.
Anyway, I have now looked into these genetic studies and quite frankly it is very very weird how much research has been done on this.
The big takeaway is that according to genetic analysis based on Bronze age Canaanite remains the order of most Levantine is...
1. Bedouins
2. Christian Palestinians and Druze
3. Muslim Palestinians
4. Iraqis
5. Ashkenazi and
6. Sephardic.
I do not subscribe to the relevence of any of this. I think none of it matters because both sets of populations are there now and aren't going anywhere. But since there is someone on this thread that does care, and thinks it matters, I say to them that the Bedouins are far and away the most "indigenous" to the land and the Sephardic, unexpectedly, are the least.
You left out the Mizrahi Jews. Also, there is a lot of conflicting research on which group is most indigenous to the land. To the point that many scholars say it’s impossible to tell. The Torah itself shows the Jews arriving in the land of Canaanites. Likewise, the Arabs conquered it many, many years later. But it’s true that Jews and Iraqis and the Druze are apparently very, very closely related. Funny, huh?
The study did not include Mizrahi.
The archeological research, once again it is very very weird how much resources have been spent on this stuff, says that the Moses story is likely a myth and that the Israelites were in Canaan before the exodus.
It is interesting. But what was more interesting to me, because of the way this DNA argument is usually used, was that these studies all show that Palestinians are not mere Arab Yahya come latelys but are indeed the descendents of the original Levantine population.
As are the Jews! If you read the Bible, you’d see many different groups of people living in the same area and fighting. The Palestinians are descendants of Levantines, but they are also the descendants of Arab conquerors, just as Mexicans are descendants of both the Native Indigenous people and the Spanish conquerors.
A lot of these studies originated because researchers were trying to prove that Ashkenazi Jews were actually Khazar converts to Judaism, but the research shows they have no relation to the Caucasus region.
Israel is the Jewish homeland no matter how many people try to prove otherwise.
It doesn’t matter. Israel is there to stay. Israelis are there to stay. If Palestinians abandon their pipe dream that Israel is going to be destroyed and they will live in what is now Israel, the world will be a better and a safer place .
It creepy and weird. It’s a rally for Israel. Israel and US do not share values, language or religion. I guess they are doing it because keeps Israel in arms.
It’s a rally against antisemitism and the people there are Americans. Obviously you see them as other, but that’s ok because we see you for what you are.
+1 The people at this rally were American Jews. I don’t know what you do at your rallies that you think this is creepy and weird.
You know what they do at their rallies. Desecrate and vandalize DC monuments and White House fence.
They don't have to concern themselves with the police standing on their necks . . . Oh wait, that's being done to the Palestinians too.
What Palestinian had police stand on their neck? One, 1, ONE was arrested at the pro-Pali rally in DC. But the desecration of DC monuments was wide spread. Cry about something else.
Anonymous wrote:Tens of thousands of people marching to celebrate genocide. No one is going to convinced to support Israel from this stunt. If anything, it’s the opposite.
I mean this rally could have been named, “Support for genocide” I mean do people have no shame these days???
Obviously you aren’t there or you wouldn’t say this. Absolutely no one is marching to support genocide and almost every speaker has mentioned innocent Palestinian lives lost and hopes for peace in the region. Sorry that it doesn’t fit in with your narrative.
Zionism explicitly calls for genocide. This march was all for the complete abolition of the Palestinian people and their removal from their generational homeland. Yes, we save Van Jones call for peace - and then we saw the pro-genocide crowd break into "no ceasefire" chants.
These people are complete and utter monsters. I don't think there's anyway that Israel can recover its image from this - at least not from those that believe in human rights. The far right and evangelicals love it because they also believe in mass extermination of those that they deem unworthy. Couldn't have found better bedfellows.
You are completely delusional.
What I call delusional are the pro-genocide denialists who pretend like they haven't been in favor of displacing millions of Palestinians from their homes. When you takeover land that has millions of native inhabitants, what do you think will happen to them? Zionism is colonialism and we should not be having valid discussions on these issues in 2023. The fact that you believe the right of Palestinians born and raised in the region can be displaced by immigrants from Europe and the US who had not stepped foot in Palestinian for 2000 years is shocking and abhorrent.
We need to start calling Israel out for the war crimes and terrorism that it has undertaken daily for the past 75 years.
The Palestinians could have had their own state, but they rejected it and launched a new intifada. The Israelis left the Gaza Strip in 2005, and Hamas decided to turn it into a terrorism factory, rather than improve life for their own people. They are largely reaping what they sowed.
You're just another empty-headed progressive, bleating vapid propaganda phrases. Your understanding of history, or lack thereof, is just embarrassing and sad. You should go back to tearing down posters of kidnapped Israeli kids and threatening Jewish college girls, rather than trying to talk with adults.
Honestly, STFU. We're so tired of these lies. Israel offered crap terms with no right of return, no safety for Palestinians and no right to E Jerusalem. There were zero bona fide efforts by them. Israel deliberately gave crappy deals so that people like you could then say "but but the Palestinians!!!".
Israelis are murderous terrorists who stole land and killed natives. They've been on a misinformation binge for 75 years trying to rewrite history to center them as the victims. It is BS and we are not buying it any more. Everything that Israel has claimed has been a lie and we have seen it in real time.
While you cry for another genocide, we're trying to prevent it. We know what side of history that you are on.
Listen, kid, I'm not some Jewish college student you and your Hamas-loving buddies can bully and scare into silence.
You've been brainwashed by anti-Semitic propaganda, and now go around bleating catchphrases that you think make you look deep and progressive. You're just embarrassing yourself at this point. You probably list your pronouns in all your social media, and begin every meeting with a land acknowledgment.
Your Hamas homies are now discovering that it's a lot less fun to face the IDF, as opposed to murdering and raping unarmed teenagers and the elderly.
No, I've actually read the history. Jews landed from Europe to settle the Palestinian Territory. There were millions of natives there. They killed and displaced them. They burned villages, stole homes, raped women and forced thousands into exile. They've since forced the remaining natives into a military dictatorship and apartheid.
how you guys continue to support that becuase you are the "chosen ones" is really beyond any normal comprehension. It is kool-aid level cult derangement.
Why would a bunch of white Europeans spend nearly a hundred years fighting over a pile of sand in the middle east?
Hint: that's where they're actually from. They were in Europe because they were exiled there.
This is so ridiculous. My ancestors came across the Bering Straight when it was a block of ice. Do I get to kill Russians and Chinese to take their land?
Were you exiled from Russia?
Sure! I bet they were all kicked out. Does that mean I get to call for genocide? Seems a pretty easy pass. We would all get to engage in ethnic cleansing that way. What a great way to bond as a people. I guess when you have no sense of morality, it tracks
Why aren’t the Jews kicking the Germans and Poles off the land? They’re the ones who conducted the Holocaust. They should have to cede their land to pay for their crimes.
Jews aren't from Germany and Poland.
Wut. You must think we’re crazy. That is absolutely where Ashkenazi Jews are from. That’s why Yiddish is a Germanic language.
Why didn't Jews in Germany just speak German then?
Because those Jews WHO WERE IN GERMANY were a distinct ethnic group IN GERMANY. There were also Jews in Palestine during the Holocaust. They were not in Germany. In fact there are Jews all over the world. And yet it was the Jews who lived in Europe who suffered the horrors. So let Europe pay for it.
Glad you finally admitted that Jews aren't German, but just lived there.
Of course they were German. That’s the biggest horror of the Holocaust. That Europeans could do this to their own people. The fact that the Ashkenazi Jews were a victim of Nazis does not make them non-European. It makes them European victims of Europeans. What it does not make them is entitled to steal non-Europeans’ land.
The entire point of the Holocaust was that Hitler saw Jews as a different race of people. NO ONE saw Jews as European. Modern day Europeans probably still don't see them as European.
That may be. Let’s assume it’s true. It still isn’t the fault of the Palestinians.
We were talking about Jews being European or not. They are not.
They are indigenous to Israel/Palestine, just as Palestinians are.
Ashkenazi Jews came to Palestine from Europe. The Palestinians did not invite them. The English, in their infinite generosity, decided to gift Palestinian land to people from Europe. I don’t blame the European Jews for wanting a place to live, but I do blame them for cleansing the land of everyone but Jews.
First of all DNA tests prove that Ashkenazi Jews have nearly 100% Levantine paternal ancestry. The studies vary on the amount of Levantine maternal ancestry they have. It looks like during Roman times, Jewish men arrived, as slaves and as merchants, from Israel to Italy and many took local brides. The closest European group to Ashkenazi Jews are Italians and specifically Tuscans. But Ashkenazi Jews are most closely related to Sephardic Jews and then to Mizrahi Jews. They are not very related to Germans, although there’s some Central European ancestry, but it’s a minuscule amount.
DNA doesn’t lie. Ashkenazi Jews are Middle Eastern. Fact.
Secondly, the vast majority of Ashkenazi Jews live in the US, not Israel. The majority of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi. They have always lived in the Middle East. They have no connection to Europe at all.
Thirdly, over 20% of Israelis are Arabs, most of whom are Muslim. They didn’t listen to Arab leaders, who in their anger at the formation of Israel told them to leave, so that they could push the Jews into the sea. No, these Arabs chose to stay and they live peacefully in Israel. They are in the government, the judiciary, the World Cup team and many.of them are even in the IDF.
So, how exactly did the Ashkenazi’s come over to Israel and kick everyone else out? That’s just not true.
I'm only saying this because I find the whole premise of using 23andme absurd and I am disgusted by the story of the 10/7 victim family that was not allowed to be buried together in the Jewish cemetary.
Wouldn't paternal ancestry mean they are not Jewish, according to the Orthodox?
This isn’t 23andme. This is studied by scholars, geneticists and medical researchers from all over the world.
Not all of the maternal DNA is ancient European, just some of it is. The amount is disputed by the research.
Judaism doesn’t proselytize, but converts are fully accepted by the Orthodox if they take a Mikva and follow the 613 Mitvot. So, the descendants of women who converted to Judaism over 2,000 years ago and followed the Mitzvot are Jewish according to Jewish law.
I am not familiar with the sad situation you are talking about but Israel is a Jewish country and follows the Orthodox rules for marriage and burials. I don’t know what the situation is with the family you speak of, but they would have been aware of it.
Interesting. The story is quite simple, an entire family of 4 was killed. The father was not Jewish. They had to be buried "outside the fence" to stay together.
Anyway, I have now looked into these genetic studies and quite frankly it is very very weird how much research has been done on this.
The big takeaway is that according to genetic analysis based on Bronze age Canaanite remains the order of most Levantine is...
1. Bedouins
2. Christian Palestinians and Druze
3. Muslim Palestinians
4. Iraqis
5. Ashkenazi and
6. Sephardic.
I do not subscribe to the relevence of any of this. I think none of it matters because both sets of populations are there now and aren't going anywhere. But since there is someone on this thread that does care, and thinks it matters, I say to them that the Bedouins are far and away the most "indigenous" to the land and the Sephardic, unexpectedly, are the least.
You left out the Mizrahi Jews. Also, there is a lot of conflicting research on which group is most indigenous to the land. To the point that many scholars say it’s impossible to tell. The Torah itself shows the Jews arriving in the land of Canaanites. Likewise, the Arabs conquered it many, many years later. But it’s true that Jews and Iraqis and the Druze are apparently very, very closely related. Funny, huh?
The study did not include Mizrahi.
The archeological research, once again it is very very weird how much resources have been spent on this stuff, says that the Moses story is likely a myth and that the Israelites were in Canaan before the exodus.
It is interesting. But what was more interesting to me, because of the way this DNA argument is usually used, was that these studies all show that Palestinians are not mere Arab Yahya come latelys but are indeed the descendents of the original Levantine population.
As are the Jews! If you read the Bible, you’d see many different groups of people living in the same area and fighting. The Palestinians are descendants of Levantines, but they are also the descendants of Arab conquerors, just as Mexicans are descendants of both the Native Indigenous people and the Spanish conquerors.
A lot of these studies originated because researchers were trying to prove that Ashkenazi Jews were actually Khazar converts to Judaism, but the research shows they have no relation to the Caucasus region.
Israel is the Jewish homeland no matter how many people try to prove otherwise.
It doesn’t matter. Israel is there to stay. Israelis are there to stay. If Palestinians abandon their pipe dream that Israel is going to be destroyed and they will live in what is now Israel, the world will be a better and a safer place .
Fatah has done that an Palestinians in the West Bank are still being murdered and pushed off their land
Anonymous wrote:Tens of thousands of people marching to celebrate genocide. No one is going to convinced to support Israel from this stunt. If anything, it’s the opposite.
I mean this rally could have been named, “Support for genocide” I mean do people have no shame these days???
Obviously you aren’t there or you wouldn’t say this. Absolutely no one is marching to support genocide and almost every speaker has mentioned innocent Palestinian lives lost and hopes for peace in the region. Sorry that it doesn’t fit in with your narrative.
Zionism explicitly calls for genocide. This march was all for the complete abolition of the Palestinian people and their removal from their generational homeland. Yes, we save Van Jones call for peace - and then we saw the pro-genocide crowd break into "no ceasefire" chants.
These people are complete and utter monsters. I don't think there's anyway that Israel can recover its image from this - at least not from those that believe in human rights. The far right and evangelicals love it because they also believe in mass extermination of those that they deem unworthy. Couldn't have found better bedfellows.
You are completely delusional.
What I call delusional are the pro-genocide denialists who pretend like they haven't been in favor of displacing millions of Palestinians from their homes. When you takeover land that has millions of native inhabitants, what do you think will happen to them? Zionism is colonialism and we should not be having valid discussions on these issues in 2023. The fact that you believe the right of Palestinians born and raised in the region can be displaced by immigrants from Europe and the US who had not stepped foot in Palestinian for 2000 years is shocking and abhorrent.
We need to start calling Israel out for the war crimes and terrorism that it has undertaken daily for the past 75 years.
The Palestinians could have had their own state, but they rejected it and launched a new intifada. The Israelis left the Gaza Strip in 2005, and Hamas decided to turn it into a terrorism factory, rather than improve life for their own people. They are largely reaping what they sowed.
You're just another empty-headed progressive, bleating vapid propaganda phrases. Your understanding of history, or lack thereof, is just embarrassing and sad. You should go back to tearing down posters of kidnapped Israeli kids and threatening Jewish college girls, rather than trying to talk with adults.
Honestly, STFU. We're so tired of these lies. Israel offered crap terms with no right of return, no safety for Palestinians and no right to E Jerusalem. There were zero bona fide efforts by them. Israel deliberately gave crappy deals so that people like you could then say "but but the Palestinians!!!".
Israelis are murderous terrorists who stole land and killed natives. They've been on a misinformation binge for 75 years trying to rewrite history to center them as the victims. It is BS and we are not buying it any more. Everything that Israel has claimed has been a lie and we have seen it in real time.
While you cry for another genocide, we're trying to prevent it. We know what side of history that you are on.
Listen, kid, I'm not some Jewish college student you and your Hamas-loving buddies can bully and scare into silence.
You've been brainwashed by anti-Semitic propaganda, and now go around bleating catchphrases that you think make you look deep and progressive. You're just embarrassing yourself at this point. You probably list your pronouns in all your social media, and begin every meeting with a land acknowledgment.
Your Hamas homies are now discovering that it's a lot less fun to face the IDF, as opposed to murdering and raping unarmed teenagers and the elderly.
No, I've actually read the history. Jews landed from Europe to settle the Palestinian Territory. There were millions of natives there. They killed and displaced them. They burned villages, stole homes, raped women and forced thousands into exile. They've since forced the remaining natives into a military dictatorship and apartheid.
how you guys continue to support that becuase you are the "chosen ones" is really beyond any normal comprehension. It is kool-aid level cult derangement.
Why would a bunch of white Europeans spend nearly a hundred years fighting over a pile of sand in the middle east?
Hint: that's where they're actually from. They were in Europe because they were exiled there.
This is so ridiculous. My ancestors came across the Bering Straight when it was a block of ice. Do I get to kill Russians and Chinese to take their land?
Were you exiled from Russia?
Sure! I bet they were all kicked out. Does that mean I get to call for genocide? Seems a pretty easy pass. We would all get to engage in ethnic cleansing that way. What a great way to bond as a people. I guess when you have no sense of morality, it tracks
Why aren’t the Jews kicking the Germans and Poles off the land? They’re the ones who conducted the Holocaust. They should have to cede their land to pay for their crimes.
Jews aren't from Germany and Poland.
Wut. You must think we’re crazy. That is absolutely where Ashkenazi Jews are from. That’s why Yiddish is a Germanic language.
Why didn't Jews in Germany just speak German then?
Because those Jews WHO WERE IN GERMANY were a distinct ethnic group IN GERMANY. There were also Jews in Palestine during the Holocaust. They were not in Germany. In fact there are Jews all over the world. And yet it was the Jews who lived in Europe who suffered the horrors. So let Europe pay for it.
Glad you finally admitted that Jews aren't German, but just lived there.
Of course they were German. That’s the biggest horror of the Holocaust. That Europeans could do this to their own people. The fact that the Ashkenazi Jews were a victim of Nazis does not make them non-European. It makes them European victims of Europeans. What it does not make them is entitled to steal non-Europeans’ land.
The entire point of the Holocaust was that Hitler saw Jews as a different race of people. NO ONE saw Jews as European. Modern day Europeans probably still don't see them as European.
That may be. Let’s assume it’s true. It still isn’t the fault of the Palestinians.
We were talking about Jews being European or not. They are not.
They are indigenous to Israel/Palestine, just as Palestinians are.
Ashkenazi Jews came to Palestine from Europe. The Palestinians did not invite them. The English, in their infinite generosity, decided to gift Palestinian land to people from Europe. I don’t blame the European Jews for wanting a place to live, but I do blame them for cleansing the land of everyone but Jews.
First of all DNA tests prove that Ashkenazi Jews have nearly 100% Levantine paternal ancestry. The studies vary on the amount of Levantine maternal ancestry they have. It looks like during Roman times, Jewish men arrived, as slaves and as merchants, from Israel to Italy and many took local brides. The closest European group to Ashkenazi Jews are Italians and specifically Tuscans. But Ashkenazi Jews are most closely related to Sephardic Jews and then to Mizrahi Jews. They are not very related to Germans, although there’s some Central European ancestry, but it’s a minuscule amount.
DNA doesn’t lie. Ashkenazi Jews are Middle Eastern. Fact.
Secondly, the vast majority of Ashkenazi Jews live in the US, not Israel. The majority of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi. They have always lived in the Middle East. They have no connection to Europe at all.
Thirdly, over 20% of Israelis are Arabs, most of whom are Muslim. They didn’t listen to Arab leaders, who in their anger at the formation of Israel told them to leave, so that they could push the Jews into the sea. No, these Arabs chose to stay and they live peacefully in Israel. They are in the government, the judiciary, the World Cup team and many.of them are even in the IDF.
So, how exactly did the Ashkenazi’s come over to Israel and kick everyone else out? That’s just not true.
I'm only saying this because I find the whole premise of using 23andme absurd and I am disgusted by the story of the 10/7 victim family that was not allowed to be buried together in the Jewish cemetary.
Wouldn't paternal ancestry mean they are not Jewish, according to the Orthodox?
This isn’t 23andme. This is studied by scholars, geneticists and medical researchers from all over the world.
Not all of the maternal DNA is ancient European, just some of it is. The amount is disputed by the research.
Judaism doesn’t proselytize, but converts are fully accepted by the Orthodox if they take a Mikva and follow the 613 Mitvot. So, the descendants of women who converted to Judaism over 2,000 years ago and followed the Mitzvot are Jewish according to Jewish law.
I am not familiar with the sad situation you are talking about but Israel is a Jewish country and follows the Orthodox rules for marriage and burials. I don’t know what the situation is with the family you speak of, but they would have been aware of it.
Interesting. The story is quite simple, an entire family of 4 was killed. The father was not Jewish. They had to be buried "outside the fence" to stay together.
Anyway, I have now looked into these genetic studies and quite frankly it is very very weird how much research has been done on this.
The big takeaway is that according to genetic analysis based on Bronze age Canaanite remains the order of most Levantine is...
1. Bedouins
2. Christian Palestinians and Druze
3. Muslim Palestinians
4. Iraqis
5. Ashkenazi and
6. Sephardic.
I do not subscribe to the relevence of any of this. I think none of it matters because both sets of populations are there now and aren't going anywhere. But since there is someone on this thread that does care, and thinks it matters, I say to them that the Bedouins are far and away the most "indigenous" to the land and the Sephardic, unexpectedly, are the least.
You left out the Mizrahi Jews. Also, there is a lot of conflicting research on which group is most indigenous to the land. To the point that many scholars say it’s impossible to tell. The Torah itself shows the Jews arriving in the land of Canaanites. Likewise, the Arabs conquered it many, many years later. But it’s true that Jews and Iraqis and the Druze are apparently very, very closely related. Funny, huh?
The study did not include Mizrahi.
The archeological research, once again it is very very weird how much resources have been spent on this stuff, says that the Moses story is likely a myth and that the Israelites were in Canaan before the exodus.
It is interesting. But what was more interesting to me, because of the way this DNA argument is usually used, was that these studies all show that Palestinians are not mere Arab Yahya come latelys but are indeed the descendents of the original Levantine population.
As are the Jews! If you read the Bible, you’d see many different groups of people living in the same area and fighting. The Palestinians are descendants of Levantines, but they are also the descendants of Arab conquerors, just as Mexicans are descendants of both the Native Indigenous people and the Spanish conquerors.
A lot of these studies originated because researchers were trying to prove that Ashkenazi Jews were actually Khazar converts to Judaism, but the research shows they have no relation to the Caucasus region.
Israel is the Jewish homeland no matter how many people try to prove otherwise.
It doesn’t matter. Israel is there to stay. Israelis are there to stay. If Palestinians abandon their pipe dream that Israel is going to be destroyed and they will live in what is now Israel, the world will be a better and a safer place .
Fatah has done that an Palestinians in the West Bank are still being murdered and pushed off their land
WB wages are three times that of Gaza. Poverty in the WB is on the decline vs increasing in Gaza. Fatah pays Palestinian terrorists wages for life for taking arms against israel or for committing terrorist acts. Fatah does not bring them to justice so Israel has to. Settlers and settler violence is abhorrent.
Anonymous wrote:Tens of thousands of people marching to celebrate genocide. No one is going to convinced to support Israel from this stunt. If anything, it’s the opposite.
I mean this rally could have been named, “Support for genocide” I mean do people have no shame these days???
Obviously you aren’t there or you wouldn’t say this. Absolutely no one is marching to support genocide and almost every speaker has mentioned innocent Palestinian lives lost and hopes for peace in the region. Sorry that it doesn’t fit in with your narrative.
Zionism explicitly calls for genocide. This march was all for the complete abolition of the Palestinian people and their removal from their generational homeland. Yes, we save Van Jones call for peace - and then we saw the pro-genocide crowd break into "no ceasefire" chants.
These people are complete and utter monsters. I don't think there's anyway that Israel can recover its image from this - at least not from those that believe in human rights. The far right and evangelicals love it because they also believe in mass extermination of those that they deem unworthy. Couldn't have found better bedfellows.
You are completely delusional.
What I call delusional are the pro-genocide denialists who pretend like they haven't been in favor of displacing millions of Palestinians from their homes. When you takeover land that has millions of native inhabitants, what do you think will happen to them? Zionism is colonialism and we should not be having valid discussions on these issues in 2023. The fact that you believe the right of Palestinians born and raised in the region can be displaced by immigrants from Europe and the US who had not stepped foot in Palestinian for 2000 years is shocking and abhorrent.
We need to start calling Israel out for the war crimes and terrorism that it has undertaken daily for the past 75 years.
The Palestinians could have had their own state, but they rejected it and launched a new intifada. The Israelis left the Gaza Strip in 2005, and Hamas decided to turn it into a terrorism factory, rather than improve life for their own people. They are largely reaping what they sowed.
You're just another empty-headed progressive, bleating vapid propaganda phrases. Your understanding of history, or lack thereof, is just embarrassing and sad. You should go back to tearing down posters of kidnapped Israeli kids and threatening Jewish college girls, rather than trying to talk with adults.
Honestly, STFU. We're so tired of these lies. Israel offered crap terms with no right of return, no safety for Palestinians and no right to E Jerusalem. There were zero bona fide efforts by them. Israel deliberately gave crappy deals so that people like you could then say "but but the Palestinians!!!".
Israelis are murderous terrorists who stole land and killed natives. They've been on a misinformation binge for 75 years trying to rewrite history to center them as the victims. It is BS and we are not buying it any more. Everything that Israel has claimed has been a lie and we have seen it in real time.
While you cry for another genocide, we're trying to prevent it. We know what side of history that you are on.
Listen, kid, I'm not some Jewish college student you and your Hamas-loving buddies can bully and scare into silence.
You've been brainwashed by anti-Semitic propaganda, and now go around bleating catchphrases that you think make you look deep and progressive. You're just embarrassing yourself at this point. You probably list your pronouns in all your social media, and begin every meeting with a land acknowledgment.
Your Hamas homies are now discovering that it's a lot less fun to face the IDF, as opposed to murdering and raping unarmed teenagers and the elderly.
No, I've actually read the history. Jews landed from Europe to settle the Palestinian Territory. There were millions of natives there. They killed and displaced them. They burned villages, stole homes, raped women and forced thousands into exile. They've since forced the remaining natives into a military dictatorship and apartheid.
how you guys continue to support that becuase you are the "chosen ones" is really beyond any normal comprehension. It is kool-aid level cult derangement.
Why would a bunch of white Europeans spend nearly a hundred years fighting over a pile of sand in the middle east?
Hint: that's where they're actually from. They were in Europe because they were exiled there.
This is so ridiculous. My ancestors came across the Bering Straight when it was a block of ice. Do I get to kill Russians and Chinese to take their land?
Were you exiled from Russia?
Sure! I bet they were all kicked out. Does that mean I get to call for genocide? Seems a pretty easy pass. We would all get to engage in ethnic cleansing that way. What a great way to bond as a people. I guess when you have no sense of morality, it tracks
Why aren’t the Jews kicking the Germans and Poles off the land? They’re the ones who conducted the Holocaust. They should have to cede their land to pay for their crimes.
Jews aren't from Germany and Poland.
Wut. You must think we’re crazy. That is absolutely where Ashkenazi Jews are from. That’s why Yiddish is a Germanic language.
Why didn't Jews in Germany just speak German then?
Because those Jews WHO WERE IN GERMANY were a distinct ethnic group IN GERMANY. There were also Jews in Palestine during the Holocaust. They were not in Germany. In fact there are Jews all over the world. And yet it was the Jews who lived in Europe who suffered the horrors. So let Europe pay for it.
Glad you finally admitted that Jews aren't German, but just lived there.
Of course they were German. That’s the biggest horror of the Holocaust. That Europeans could do this to their own people. The fact that the Ashkenazi Jews were a victim of Nazis does not make them non-European. It makes them European victims of Europeans. What it does not make them is entitled to steal non-Europeans’ land.
The entire point of the Holocaust was that Hitler saw Jews as a different race of people. NO ONE saw Jews as European. Modern day Europeans probably still don't see them as European.
That may be. Let’s assume it’s true. It still isn’t the fault of the Palestinians.
We were talking about Jews being European or not. They are not.
They are indigenous to Israel/Palestine, just as Palestinians are.
Ashkenazi Jews came to Palestine from Europe. The Palestinians did not invite them. The English, in their infinite generosity, decided to gift Palestinian land to people from Europe. I don’t blame the European Jews for wanting a place to live, but I do blame them for cleansing the land of everyone but Jews.
First of all DNA tests prove that Ashkenazi Jews have nearly 100% Levantine paternal ancestry. The studies vary on the amount of Levantine maternal ancestry they have. It looks like during Roman times, Jewish men arrived, as slaves and as merchants, from Israel to Italy and many took local brides. The closest European group to Ashkenazi Jews are Italians and specifically Tuscans. But Ashkenazi Jews are most closely related to Sephardic Jews and then to Mizrahi Jews. They are not very related to Germans, although there’s some Central European ancestry, but it’s a minuscule amount.
DNA doesn’t lie. Ashkenazi Jews are Middle Eastern. Fact.
Secondly, the vast majority of Ashkenazi Jews live in the US, not Israel. The majority of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi. They have always lived in the Middle East. They have no connection to Europe at all.
Thirdly, over 20% of Israelis are Arabs, most of whom are Muslim. They didn’t listen to Arab leaders, who in their anger at the formation of Israel told them to leave, so that they could push the Jews into the sea. No, these Arabs chose to stay and they live peacefully in Israel. They are in the government, the judiciary, the World Cup team and many.of them are even in the IDF.
So, how exactly did the Ashkenazi’s come over to Israel and kick everyone else out? That’s just not true.
I'm only saying this because I find the whole premise of using 23andme absurd and I am disgusted by the story of the 10/7 victim family that was not allowed to be buried together in the Jewish cemetary.
Wouldn't paternal ancestry mean they are not Jewish, according to the Orthodox?
This isn’t 23andme. This is studied by scholars, geneticists and medical researchers from all over the world.
Not all of the maternal DNA is ancient European, just some of it is. The amount is disputed by the research.
Judaism doesn’t proselytize, but converts are fully accepted by the Orthodox if they take a Mikva and follow the 613 Mitvot. So, the descendants of women who converted to Judaism over 2,000 years ago and followed the Mitzvot are Jewish according to Jewish law.
I am not familiar with the sad situation you are talking about but Israel is a Jewish country and follows the Orthodox rules for marriage and burials. I don’t know what the situation is with the family you speak of, but they would have been aware of it.
Interesting. The story is quite simple, an entire family of 4 was killed. The father was not Jewish. They had to be buried "outside the fence" to stay together.
Anyway, I have now looked into these genetic studies and quite frankly it is very very weird how much research has been done on this.
The big takeaway is that according to genetic analysis based on Bronze age Canaanite remains the order of most Levantine is...
1. Bedouins
2. Christian Palestinians and Druze
3. Muslim Palestinians
4. Iraqis
5. Ashkenazi and
6. Sephardic.
I do not subscribe to the relevence of any of this. I think none of it matters because both sets of populations are there now and aren't going anywhere. But since there is someone on this thread that does care, and thinks it matters, I say to them that the Bedouins are far and away the most "indigenous" to the land and the Sephardic, unexpectedly, are the least.
You left out the Mizrahi Jews. Also, there is a lot of conflicting research on which group is most indigenous to the land. To the point that many scholars say it’s impossible to tell. The Torah itself shows the Jews arriving in the land of Canaanites. Likewise, the Arabs conquered it many, many years later. But it’s true that Jews and Iraqis and the Druze are apparently very, very closely related. Funny, huh?
The study did not include Mizrahi.
The archeological research, once again it is very very weird how much resources have been spent on this stuff, says that the Moses story is likely a myth and that the Israelites were in Canaan before the exodus.
It is interesting. But what was more interesting to me, because of the way this DNA argument is usually used, was that these studies all show that Palestinians are not mere Arab Yahya come latelys but are indeed the descendents of the original Levantine population.
As are the Jews! If you read the Bible, you’d see many different groups of people living in the same area and fighting. The Palestinians are descendants of Levantines, but they are also the descendants of Arab conquerors, just as Mexicans are descendants of both the Native Indigenous people and the Spanish conquerors.
A lot of these studies originated because researchers were trying to prove that Ashkenazi Jews were actually Khazar converts to Judaism, but the research shows they have no relation to the Caucasus region.
Israel is the Jewish homeland no matter how many people try to prove otherwise.
Yeah, but many of the same people that say that also say that the Palestinians are not. That's the whole Palestinians are nothing but Arabs argument. They say that Palestinians are nothing more than 9th century or later Arab invaders without historical ties to the sub-region. The Christian Palestinians and Druze were over 40% Levantine and the Muslim population was in the 30's, while the Ashkenazi were around 15%.
The other interesting thing was that the Bedouins were in the 60's. Those guys literally never left. They've been wandering the desert for thousands of years!
That makes sense why they left the Mizrahi out, that's horrible. No wonder it feels icky. Wish people didn't make those arguments. Israel doesn't have a right to exist because they were indigenous. Israel has a right to exist because it exists. Nothing more needs to be said.
Anonymous wrote:Why are American Jews cloaked in the Israeli flag? They were rallying for Israel, not anything in America. I don’t understand the Americans waving Palestinian flags either. What happened to being American?
Why was a MIT student waving a Palestinian flag called “hateful” when it’s okay to wave an Israeli flag. That is the confusion I have.
Pa. And yes, I get that the Pro Israel protest was a lot more peaceful than the pro Palestinian protests have been.
Inherent racism. Kids are doxxed, vilified and cancelled for waving Palestinian flags. American Jews claim that the mere presence of a Palestinian flag makes them fearful and unsafe. Yet, thousands of Jews can waive an Israeli flag - which is a clear symbol of oppression and apartheid- but no one can say anything. This is why these claims of “antisemitism “ from rich college kids falls flat. The hypocrisy is too much
Anonymous wrote:Why are American Jews cloaked in the Israeli flag? They were rallying for Israel, not anything in America. I don’t understand the Americans waving Palestinian flags either. What happened to being American?
Why was a MIT student waving a Palestinian flag called “hateful” when it’s okay to wave an Israeli flag. That is the confusion I have.
Pa. And yes, I get that the Pro Israel protest was a lot more peaceful than the pro Palestinian protests have been.
Inherent racism. Kids are doxxed, vilified and cancelled for waving Palestinian flags. American Jews claim that the mere presence of a Palestinian flag makes them fearful and unsafe. Yet, thousands of Jews can waive an Israeli flag - which is a clear symbol of oppression and apartheid- but no one can say anything. This is why these claims of “antisemitism “ from rich college kids falls flat. The hypocrisy is too much
I never heard that about the flag. Rather, creepy-weird chants like “from the river to the sea,” and “there is only one solution,” with their eliminationist undertones are concerning.
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