It creepy and weird. It’s a rally for Israel. Israel and US do not share values, language or religion. I guess they are doing it because keeps Israel in arms.
It’s a rally against antisemitism and the people there are Americans. Obviously you see them as other, but that’s ok because we see you for what you are.
+1 The people at this rally were American Jews. I don’t know what you do at your rallies that you think this is creepy and weird.
You know what they do at their rallies. Desecrate and vandalize DC monuments and White House fence.
Why are American Jews cloaked in the Israeli flag? They were rallying for Israel, not anything in America. I don’t understand the Americans waving Palestinian flags either. What happened to being American?
Anonymous wrote:Tens of thousands of people marching to celebrate genocide. No one is going to convinced to support Israel from this stunt. If anything, it’s the opposite.
I mean this rally could have been named, “Support for genocide” I mean do people have no shame these days???
Obviously you aren’t there or you wouldn’t say this. Absolutely no one is marching to support genocide and almost every speaker has mentioned innocent Palestinian lives lost and hopes for peace in the region. Sorry that it doesn’t fit in with your narrative.
Zionism explicitly calls for genocide. This march was all for the complete abolition of the Palestinian people and their removal from their generational homeland. Yes, we save Van Jones call for peace - and then we saw the pro-genocide crowd break into "no ceasefire" chants.
These people are complete and utter monsters. I don't think there's anyway that Israel can recover its image from this - at least not from those that believe in human rights. The far right and evangelicals love it because they also believe in mass extermination of those that they deem unworthy. Couldn't have found better bedfellows.
You are completely delusional.
What I call delusional are the pro-genocide denialists who pretend like they haven't been in favor of displacing millions of Palestinians from their homes. When you takeover land that has millions of native inhabitants, what do you think will happen to them? Zionism is colonialism and we should not be having valid discussions on these issues in 2023. The fact that you believe the right of Palestinians born and raised in the region can be displaced by immigrants from Europe and the US who had not stepped foot in Palestinian for 2000 years is shocking and abhorrent.
We need to start calling Israel out for the war crimes and terrorism that it has undertaken daily for the past 75 years.
The Palestinians could have had their own state, but they rejected it and launched a new intifada. The Israelis left the Gaza Strip in 2005, and Hamas decided to turn it into a terrorism factory, rather than improve life for their own people. They are largely reaping what they sowed.
You're just another empty-headed progressive, bleating vapid propaganda phrases. Your understanding of history, or lack thereof, is just embarrassing and sad. You should go back to tearing down posters of kidnapped Israeli kids and threatening Jewish college girls, rather than trying to talk with adults.
Honestly, STFU. We're so tired of these lies. Israel offered crap terms with no right of return, no safety for Palestinians and no right to E Jerusalem. There were zero bona fide efforts by them. Israel deliberately gave crappy deals so that people like you could then say "but but the Palestinians!!!".
Israelis are murderous terrorists who stole land and killed natives. They've been on a misinformation binge for 75 years trying to rewrite history to center them as the victims. It is BS and we are not buying it any more. Everything that Israel has claimed has been a lie and we have seen it in real time.
While you cry for another genocide, we're trying to prevent it. We know what side of history that you are on.
Listen, kid, I'm not some Jewish college student you and your Hamas-loving buddies can bully and scare into silence.
You've been brainwashed by anti-Semitic propaganda, and now go around bleating catchphrases that you think make you look deep and progressive. You're just embarrassing yourself at this point. You probably list your pronouns in all your social media, and begin every meeting with a land acknowledgment.
Your Hamas homies are now discovering that it's a lot less fun to face the IDF, as opposed to murdering and raping unarmed teenagers and the elderly.
No, I've actually read the history. Jews landed from Europe to settle the Palestinian Territory. There were millions of natives there. They killed and displaced them. They burned villages, stole homes, raped women and forced thousands into exile. They've since forced the remaining natives into a military dictatorship and apartheid.
how you guys continue to support that becuase you are the "chosen ones" is really beyond any normal comprehension. It is kool-aid level cult derangement.
Why would a bunch of white Europeans spend nearly a hundred years fighting over a pile of sand in the middle east?
Hint: that's where they're actually from. They were in Europe because they were exiled there.
This is so ridiculous. My ancestors came across the Bering Straight when it was a block of ice. Do I get to kill Russians and Chinese to take their land?
Were you exiled from Russia?
Sure! I bet they were all kicked out. Does that mean I get to call for genocide? Seems a pretty easy pass. We would all get to engage in ethnic cleansing that way. What a great way to bond as a people. I guess when you have no sense of morality, it tracks
Why aren’t the Jews kicking the Germans and Poles off the land? They’re the ones who conducted the Holocaust. They should have to cede their land to pay for their crimes.
Jews aren't from Germany and Poland.
Wut. You must think we’re crazy. That is absolutely where Ashkenazi Jews are from. That’s why Yiddish is a Germanic language.
Why didn't Jews in Germany just speak German then?
Because those Jews WHO WERE IN GERMANY were a distinct ethnic group IN GERMANY. There were also Jews in Palestine during the Holocaust. They were not in Germany. In fact there are Jews all over the world. And yet it was the Jews who lived in Europe who suffered the horrors. So let Europe pay for it.
Glad you finally admitted that Jews aren't German, but just lived there.
Of course they were German. That’s the biggest horror of the Holocaust. That Europeans could do this to their own people. The fact that the Ashkenazi Jews were a victim of Nazis does not make them non-European. It makes them European victims of Europeans. What it does not make them is entitled to steal non-Europeans’ land.
The entire point of the Holocaust was that Hitler saw Jews as a different race of people. NO ONE saw Jews as European. Modern day Europeans probably still don't see them as European.
That may be. Let’s assume it’s true. It still isn’t the fault of the Palestinians.
We were talking about Jews being European or not. They are not.
They are indigenous to Israel/Palestine, just as Palestinians are.
Ashkenazi Jews came to Palestine from Europe. The Palestinians did not invite them. The English, in their infinite generosity, decided to gift Palestinian land to people from Europe. I don’t blame the European Jews for wanting a place to live, but I do blame them for cleansing the land of everyone but Jews.
First of all DNA tests prove that Ashkenazi Jews have nearly 100% Levantine paternal ancestry. The studies vary on the amount of Levantine maternal ancestry they have. It looks like during Roman times, Jewish men arrived, as slaves and as merchants, from Israel to Italy and many took local brides. The closest European group to Ashkenazi Jews are Italians and specifically Tuscans. But Ashkenazi Jews are most closely related to Sephardic Jews and then to Mizrahi Jews. They are not very related to Germans, although there’s some Central European ancestry, but it’s a minuscule amount.
DNA doesn’t lie. Ashkenazi Jews are Middle Eastern. Fact.
Secondly, the vast majority of Ashkenazi Jews live in the US, not Israel. The majority of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi. They have always lived in the Middle East. They have no connection to Europe at all.
Thirdly, over 20% of Israelis are Arabs, most of whom are Muslim. They didn’t listen to Arab leaders, who in their anger at the formation of Israel told them to leave, so that they could push the Jews into the sea. No, these Arabs chose to stay and they live peacefully in Israel. They are in the government, the judiciary, the World Cup team and many.of them are even in the IDF.
So, how exactly did the Ashkenazi’s come over to Israel and kick everyone else out? That’s just not true.
I'm only saying this because I find the whole premise of using 23andme absurd and I am disgusted by the story of the 10/7 victim family that was not allowed to be buried together in the Jewish cemetary.
Wouldn't paternal ancestry mean they are not Jewish, according to the Orthodox?
This isn’t 23andme. This is studied by scholars, geneticists and medical researchers from all over the world.
Not all of the maternal DNA is ancient European, just some of it is. The amount is disputed by the research.
Judaism doesn’t proselytize, but converts are fully accepted by the Orthodox if they take a Mikva and follow the 613 Mitvot. So, the descendants of women who converted to Judaism over 2,000 years ago and followed the Mitzvot are Jewish according to Jewish law.
I am not familiar with the sad situation you are talking about but Israel is a Jewish country and follows the Orthodox rules for marriage and burials. I don’t know what the situation is with the family you speak of, but they would have been aware of it.
Interesting. The story is quite simple, an entire family of 4 was killed. The father was not Jewish. They had to be buried "outside the fence" to stay together.
Anyway, I have now looked into these genetic studies and quite frankly it is very very weird how much research has been done on this.
The big takeaway is that according to genetic analysis based on Bronze age Canaanite remains the order of most Levantine is...
1. Bedouins
2. Christian Palestinians and Druze
3. Muslim Palestinians
4. Iraqis
5. Ashkenazi and
6. Sephardic.
I do not subscribe to the relevence of any of this. I think none of it matters because both sets of populations are there now and aren't going anywhere. But since there is someone on this thread that does care, and thinks it matters, I say to them that the Bedouins are far and away the most "indigenous" to the land and the Sephardic, unexpectedly, are the least.
Anonymous wrote:Why are American Jews cloaked in the Israeli flag? They were rallying for Israel, not anything in America. I don’t understand the Americans waving Palestinian flags either. What happened to being American?
Can you explain Ukrainian flags? I didn't know we had so many Ukrainians in the area.
Anonymous wrote:Why are American Jews cloaked in the Israeli flag? They were rallying for Israel, not anything in America. I don’t understand the Americans waving Palestinian flags either. What happened to being American?
Anonymous wrote:Tens of thousands of people marching to celebrate genocide. No one is going to convinced to support Israel from this stunt. If anything, it’s the opposite.
I mean this rally could have been named, “Support for genocide” I mean do people have no shame these days???
Obviously you aren’t there or you wouldn’t say this. Absolutely no one is marching to support genocide and almost every speaker has mentioned innocent Palestinian lives lost and hopes for peace in the region. Sorry that it doesn’t fit in with your narrative.
Zionism explicitly calls for genocide. This march was all for the complete abolition of the Palestinian people and their removal from their generational homeland. Yes, we save Van Jones call for peace - and then we saw the pro-genocide crowd break into "no ceasefire" chants.
These people are complete and utter monsters. I don't think there's anyway that Israel can recover its image from this - at least not from those that believe in human rights. The far right and evangelicals love it because they also believe in mass extermination of those that they deem unworthy. Couldn't have found better bedfellows.
You are completely delusional.
What I call delusional are the pro-genocide denialists who pretend like they haven't been in favor of displacing millions of Palestinians from their homes. When you takeover land that has millions of native inhabitants, what do you think will happen to them? Zionism is colonialism and we should not be having valid discussions on these issues in 2023. The fact that you believe the right of Palestinians born and raised in the region can be displaced by immigrants from Europe and the US who had not stepped foot in Palestinian for 2000 years is shocking and abhorrent.
We need to start calling Israel out for the war crimes and terrorism that it has undertaken daily for the past 75 years.
The Palestinians could have had their own state, but they rejected it and launched a new intifada. The Israelis left the Gaza Strip in 2005, and Hamas decided to turn it into a terrorism factory, rather than improve life for their own people. They are largely reaping what they sowed.
You're just another empty-headed progressive, bleating vapid propaganda phrases. Your understanding of history, or lack thereof, is just embarrassing and sad. You should go back to tearing down posters of kidnapped Israeli kids and threatening Jewish college girls, rather than trying to talk with adults.
Honestly, STFU. We're so tired of these lies. Israel offered crap terms with no right of return, no safety for Palestinians and no right to E Jerusalem. There were zero bona fide efforts by them. Israel deliberately gave crappy deals so that people like you could then say "but but the Palestinians!!!".
Israelis are murderous terrorists who stole land and killed natives. They've been on a misinformation binge for 75 years trying to rewrite history to center them as the victims. It is BS and we are not buying it any more. Everything that Israel has claimed has been a lie and we have seen it in real time.
While you cry for another genocide, we're trying to prevent it. We know what side of history that you are on.
Listen, kid, I'm not some Jewish college student you and your Hamas-loving buddies can bully and scare into silence.
You've been brainwashed by anti-Semitic propaganda, and now go around bleating catchphrases that you think make you look deep and progressive. You're just embarrassing yourself at this point. You probably list your pronouns in all your social media, and begin every meeting with a land acknowledgment.
Your Hamas homies are now discovering that it's a lot less fun to face the IDF, as opposed to murdering and raping unarmed teenagers and the elderly.
No, I've actually read the history. Jews landed from Europe to settle the Palestinian Territory. There were millions of natives there. They killed and displaced them. They burned villages, stole homes, raped women and forced thousands into exile. They've since forced the remaining natives into a military dictatorship and apartheid.
how you guys continue to support that becuase you are the "chosen ones" is really beyond any normal comprehension. It is kool-aid level cult derangement.
Why would a bunch of white Europeans spend nearly a hundred years fighting over a pile of sand in the middle east?
Hint: that's where they're actually from. They were in Europe because they were exiled there.
This is so ridiculous. My ancestors came across the Bering Straight when it was a block of ice. Do I get to kill Russians and Chinese to take their land?
Were you exiled from Russia?
Sure! I bet they were all kicked out. Does that mean I get to call for genocide? Seems a pretty easy pass. We would all get to engage in ethnic cleansing that way. What a great way to bond as a people. I guess when you have no sense of morality, it tracks
Why aren’t the Jews kicking the Germans and Poles off the land? They’re the ones who conducted the Holocaust. They should have to cede their land to pay for their crimes.
Jews aren't from Germany and Poland.
Wut. You must think we’re crazy. That is absolutely where Ashkenazi Jews are from. That’s why Yiddish is a Germanic language.
Why didn't Jews in Germany just speak German then?
Because those Jews WHO WERE IN GERMANY were a distinct ethnic group IN GERMANY. There were also Jews in Palestine during the Holocaust. They were not in Germany. In fact there are Jews all over the world. And yet it was the Jews who lived in Europe who suffered the horrors. So let Europe pay for it.
Glad you finally admitted that Jews aren't German, but just lived there.
Of course they were German. That’s the biggest horror of the Holocaust. That Europeans could do this to their own people. The fact that the Ashkenazi Jews were a victim of Nazis does not make them non-European. It makes them European victims of Europeans. What it does not make them is entitled to steal non-Europeans’ land.
The entire point of the Holocaust was that Hitler saw Jews as a different race of people. NO ONE saw Jews as European. Modern day Europeans probably still don't see them as European.
That may be. Let’s assume it’s true. It still isn’t the fault of the Palestinians.
We were talking about Jews being European or not. They are not.
They are indigenous to Israel/Palestine, just as Palestinians are.
Ashkenazi Jews came to Palestine from Europe. The Palestinians did not invite them. The English, in their infinite generosity, decided to gift Palestinian land to people from Europe. I don’t blame the European Jews for wanting a place to live, but I do blame them for cleansing the land of everyone but Jews.
First of all DNA tests prove that Ashkenazi Jews have nearly 100% Levantine paternal ancestry. The studies vary on the amount of Levantine maternal ancestry they have. It looks like during Roman times, Jewish men arrived, as slaves and as merchants, from Israel to Italy and many took local brides. The closest European group to Ashkenazi Jews are Italians and specifically Tuscans. But Ashkenazi Jews are most closely related to Sephardic Jews and then to Mizrahi Jews. They are not very related to Germans, although there’s some Central European ancestry, but it’s a minuscule amount.
DNA doesn’t lie. Ashkenazi Jews are Middle Eastern. Fact.
Secondly, the vast majority of Ashkenazi Jews live in the US, not Israel. The majority of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi. They have always lived in the Middle East. They have no connection to Europe at all.
Thirdly, over 20% of Israelis are Arabs, most of whom are Muslim. They didn’t listen to Arab leaders, who in their anger at the formation of Israel told them to leave, so that they could push the Jews into the sea. No, these Arabs chose to stay and they live peacefully in Israel. They are in the government, the judiciary, the World Cup team and many.of them are even in the IDF.
So, how exactly did the Ashkenazi’s come over to Israel and kick everyone else out? That’s just not true.
I'm only saying this because I find the whole premise of using 23andme absurd and I am disgusted by the story of the 10/7 victim family that was not allowed to be buried together in the Jewish cemetary.
Wouldn't paternal ancestry mean they are not Jewish, according to the Orthodox?
This isn’t 23andme. This is studied by scholars, geneticists and medical researchers from all over the world.
Not all of the maternal DNA is ancient European, just some of it is. The amount is disputed by the research.
Judaism doesn’t proselytize, but converts are fully accepted by the Orthodox if they take a Mikva and follow the 613 Mitvot. So, the descendants of women who converted to Judaism over 2,000 years ago and followed the Mitzvot are Jewish according to Jewish law.
I am not familiar with the sad situation you are talking about but Israel is a Jewish country and follows the Orthodox rules for marriage and burials. I don’t know what the situation is with the family you speak of, but they would have been aware of it.
Interesting. The story is quite simple, an entire family of 4 was killed. The father was not Jewish. They had to be buried "outside the fence" to stay together.
Anyway, I have now looked into these genetic studies and quite frankly it is very very weird how much research has been done on this.
The big takeaway is that according to genetic analysis based on Bronze age Canaanite remains the order of most Levantine is...
1. Bedouins
2. Christian Palestinians and Druze
3. Muslim Palestinians
4. Iraqis
5. Ashkenazi and
6. Sephardic.
I do not subscribe to the relevence of any of this. I think none of it matters because both sets of populations are there now and aren't going anywhere. But since there is someone on this thread that does care, and thinks it matters, I say to them that the Bedouins are far and away the most "indigenous" to the land and the Sephardic, unexpectedly, are the least.
You left out the Mizrahi Jews. Also, there is a lot of conflicting research on which group is most indigenous to the land. To the point that many scholars say it’s impossible to tell. The Torah itself shows the Jews arriving in the land of Canaanites. Likewise, the Arabs conquered it many, many years later. But it’s true that Jews and Iraqis and the Druze are apparently very, very closely related. Funny, huh?
Anonymous wrote:Why are American Jews cloaked in the Israeli flag? They were rallying for Israel, not anything in America. I don’t understand the Americans waving Palestinian flags either. What happened to being American?
Why was a MIT student waving a Palestinian flag called “hateful” when it’s okay to wave an Israeli flag. That is the confusion I have.
Pa. And yes, I get that the Pro Israel protest was a lot more peaceful than the pro Palestinian protests have been.
Anonymous wrote:Tens of thousands of people marching to celebrate genocide. No one is going to convinced to support Israel from this stunt. If anything, it’s the opposite.
I mean this rally could have been named, “Support for genocide” I mean do people have no shame these days???
Obviously you aren’t there or you wouldn’t say this. Absolutely no one is marching to support genocide and almost every speaker has mentioned innocent Palestinian lives lost and hopes for peace in the region. Sorry that it doesn’t fit in with your narrative.
Zionism explicitly calls for genocide. This march was all for the complete abolition of the Palestinian people and their removal from their generational homeland. Yes, we save Van Jones call for peace - and then we saw the pro-genocide crowd break into "no ceasefire" chants.
These people are complete and utter monsters. I don't think there's anyway that Israel can recover its image from this - at least not from those that believe in human rights. The far right and evangelicals love it because they also believe in mass extermination of those that they deem unworthy. Couldn't have found better bedfellows.
You are completely delusional.
What I call delusional are the pro-genocide denialists who pretend like they haven't been in favor of displacing millions of Palestinians from their homes. When you takeover land that has millions of native inhabitants, what do you think will happen to them? Zionism is colonialism and we should not be having valid discussions on these issues in 2023. The fact that you believe the right of Palestinians born and raised in the region can be displaced by immigrants from Europe and the US who had not stepped foot in Palestinian for 2000 years is shocking and abhorrent.
We need to start calling Israel out for the war crimes and terrorism that it has undertaken daily for the past 75 years.
The Palestinians could have had their own state, but they rejected it and launched a new intifada. The Israelis left the Gaza Strip in 2005, and Hamas decided to turn it into a terrorism factory, rather than improve life for their own people. They are largely reaping what they sowed.
You're just another empty-headed progressive, bleating vapid propaganda phrases. Your understanding of history, or lack thereof, is just embarrassing and sad. You should go back to tearing down posters of kidnapped Israeli kids and threatening Jewish college girls, rather than trying to talk with adults.
Honestly, STFU. We're so tired of these lies. Israel offered crap terms with no right of return, no safety for Palestinians and no right to E Jerusalem. There were zero bona fide efforts by them. Israel deliberately gave crappy deals so that people like you could then say "but but the Palestinians!!!".
Israelis are murderous terrorists who stole land and killed natives. They've been on a misinformation binge for 75 years trying to rewrite history to center them as the victims. It is BS and we are not buying it any more. Everything that Israel has claimed has been a lie and we have seen it in real time.
While you cry for another genocide, we're trying to prevent it. We know what side of history that you are on.
Listen, kid, I'm not some Jewish college student you and your Hamas-loving buddies can bully and scare into silence.
You've been brainwashed by anti-Semitic propaganda, and now go around bleating catchphrases that you think make you look deep and progressive. You're just embarrassing yourself at this point. You probably list your pronouns in all your social media, and begin every meeting with a land acknowledgment.
Your Hamas homies are now discovering that it's a lot less fun to face the IDF, as opposed to murdering and raping unarmed teenagers and the elderly.
No, I've actually read the history. Jews landed from Europe to settle the Palestinian Territory. There were millions of natives there. They killed and displaced them. They burned villages, stole homes, raped women and forced thousands into exile. They've since forced the remaining natives into a military dictatorship and apartheid.
how you guys continue to support that becuase you are the "chosen ones" is really beyond any normal comprehension. It is kool-aid level cult derangement.
Why would a bunch of white Europeans spend nearly a hundred years fighting over a pile of sand in the middle east?
Hint: that's where they're actually from. They were in Europe because they were exiled there.
This is so ridiculous. My ancestors came across the Bering Straight when it was a block of ice. Do I get to kill Russians and Chinese to take their land?
Were you exiled from Russia?
Sure! I bet they were all kicked out. Does that mean I get to call for genocide? Seems a pretty easy pass. We would all get to engage in ethnic cleansing that way. What a great way to bond as a people. I guess when you have no sense of morality, it tracks
Why aren’t the Jews kicking the Germans and Poles off the land? They’re the ones who conducted the Holocaust. They should have to cede their land to pay for their crimes.
Jews aren't from Germany and Poland.
Wut. You must think we’re crazy. That is absolutely where Ashkenazi Jews are from. That’s why Yiddish is a Germanic language.
Why didn't Jews in Germany just speak German then?
Because those Jews WHO WERE IN GERMANY were a distinct ethnic group IN GERMANY. There were also Jews in Palestine during the Holocaust. They were not in Germany. In fact there are Jews all over the world. And yet it was the Jews who lived in Europe who suffered the horrors. So let Europe pay for it.
Glad you finally admitted that Jews aren't German, but just lived there.
Of course they were German. That’s the biggest horror of the Holocaust. That Europeans could do this to their own people. The fact that the Ashkenazi Jews were a victim of Nazis does not make them non-European. It makes them European victims of Europeans. What it does not make them is entitled to steal non-Europeans’ land.
The entire point of the Holocaust was that Hitler saw Jews as a different race of people. NO ONE saw Jews as European. Modern day Europeans probably still don't see them as European.
That may be. Let’s assume it’s true. It still isn’t the fault of the Palestinians.
We were talking about Jews being European or not. They are not.
They are indigenous to Israel/Palestine, just as Palestinians are.
Ashkenazi Jews came to Palestine from Europe. The Palestinians did not invite them. The English, in their infinite generosity, decided to gift Palestinian land to people from Europe. I don’t blame the European Jews for wanting a place to live, but I do blame them for cleansing the land of everyone but Jews.
First of all DNA tests prove that Ashkenazi Jews have nearly 100% Levantine paternal ancestry. The studies vary on the amount of Levantine maternal ancestry they have. It looks like during Roman times, Jewish men arrived, as slaves and as merchants, from Israel to Italy and many took local brides. The closest European group to Ashkenazi Jews are Italians and specifically Tuscans. But Ashkenazi Jews are most closely related to Sephardic Jews and then to Mizrahi Jews. They are not very related to Germans, although there’s some Central European ancestry, but it’s a minuscule amount.
DNA doesn’t lie. Ashkenazi Jews are Middle Eastern. Fact.
Secondly, the vast majority of Ashkenazi Jews live in the US, not Israel. The majority of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi. They have always lived in the Middle East. They have no connection to Europe at all.
Thirdly, over 20% of Israelis are Arabs, most of whom are Muslim. They didn’t listen to Arab leaders, who in their anger at the formation of Israel told them to leave, so that they could push the Jews into the sea. No, these Arabs chose to stay and they live peacefully in Israel. They are in the government, the judiciary, the World Cup team and many.of them are even in the IDF.
So, how exactly did the Ashkenazi’s come over to Israel and kick everyone else out? That’s just not true.
I'm only saying this because I find the whole premise of using 23andme absurd and I am disgusted by the story of the 10/7 victim family that was not allowed to be buried together in the Jewish cemetary.
Wouldn't paternal ancestry mean they are not Jewish, according to the Orthodox?
This isn’t 23andme. This is studied by scholars, geneticists and medical researchers from all over the world.
Not all of the maternal DNA is ancient European, just some of it is. The amount is disputed by the research.
Judaism doesn’t proselytize, but converts are fully accepted by the Orthodox if they take a Mikva and follow the 613 Mitvot. So, the descendants of women who converted to Judaism over 2,000 years ago and followed the Mitzvot are Jewish according to Jewish law.
I am not familiar with the sad situation you are talking about but Israel is a Jewish country and follows the Orthodox rules for marriage and burials. I don’t know what the situation is with the family you speak of, but they would have been aware of it.
Interesting. The story is quite simple, an entire family of 4 was killed. The father was not Jewish. They had to be buried "outside the fence" to stay together.
Anyway, I have now looked into these genetic studies and quite frankly it is very very weird how much research has been done on this.
The big takeaway is that according to genetic analysis based on Bronze age Canaanite remains the order of most Levantine is...
1. Bedouins
2. Christian Palestinians and Druze
3. Muslim Palestinians
4. Iraqis
5. Ashkenazi and
6. Sephardic.
I do not subscribe to the relevence of any of this. I think none of it matters because both sets of populations are there now and aren't going anywhere. But since there is someone on this thread that does care, and thinks it matters, I say to them that the Bedouins are far and away the most "indigenous" to the land and the Sephardic, unexpectedly, are the least.
You left out the Mizrahi Jews. Also, there is a lot of conflicting research on which group is most indigenous to the land. To the point that many scholars say it’s impossible to tell. The Torah itself shows the Jews arriving in the land of Canaanites. Likewise, the Arabs conquered it many, many years later. But it’s true that Jews and Iraqis and the Druze are apparently very, very closely related. Funny, huh?
The study did not include Mizrahi.
The archeological research, once again it is very very weird how much resources have been spent on this stuff, says that the Moses story is likely a myth and that the Israelites were in Canaan before the exodus.
It is interesting. But what was more interesting to me, because of the way this DNA argument is usually used, was that these studies all show that Palestinians are not mere Arab Yahya come latelys but are indeed the descendents of the original Levantine population.
Anonymous wrote:So many babies are dying because of Israel’s attacks on hospitals and lack of power for incubators.
They even had to dig mass graves for people.
Israel offered incubators. Offer refused.
I'm so tired of this BS Israeli twitter propaganda. They post a picture of incubators and pretend that they are helping when really all they have to do is stop bombing hospitals. Israel has also posted pics of Gazan citizens that IDF allegedly helps with food/water, only to shoot them point blank as soon as the photo op is over. These people are actual monsters.
Anonymous wrote:Tens of thousands of people marching to celebrate genocide. No one is going to convinced to support Israel from this stunt. If anything, it’s the opposite.
I mean this rally could have been named, “Support for genocide” I mean do people have no shame these days???
Obviously you aren’t there or you wouldn’t say this. Absolutely no one is marching to support genocide and almost every speaker has mentioned innocent Palestinian lives lost and hopes for peace in the region. Sorry that it doesn’t fit in with your narrative.
Zionism explicitly calls for genocide. This march was all for the complete abolition of the Palestinian people and their removal from their generational homeland. Yes, we save Van Jones call for peace - and then we saw the pro-genocide crowd break into "no ceasefire" chants.
These people are complete and utter monsters. I don't think there's anyway that Israel can recover its image from this - at least not from those that believe in human rights. The far right and evangelicals love it because they also believe in mass extermination of those that they deem unworthy. Couldn't have found better bedfellows.
You are completely delusional.
What I call delusional are the pro-genocide denialists who pretend like they haven't been in favor of displacing millions of Palestinians from their homes. When you takeover land that has millions of native inhabitants, what do you think will happen to them? Zionism is colonialism and we should not be having valid discussions on these issues in 2023. The fact that you believe the right of Palestinians born and raised in the region can be displaced by immigrants from Europe and the US who had not stepped foot in Palestinian for 2000 years is shocking and abhorrent.
We need to start calling Israel out for the war crimes and terrorism that it has undertaken daily for the past 75 years.
The Palestinians could have had their own state, but they rejected it and launched a new intifada. The Israelis left the Gaza Strip in 2005, and Hamas decided to turn it into a terrorism factory, rather than improve life for their own people. They are largely reaping what they sowed.
You're just another empty-headed progressive, bleating vapid propaganda phrases. Your understanding of history, or lack thereof, is just embarrassing and sad. You should go back to tearing down posters of kidnapped Israeli kids and threatening Jewish college girls, rather than trying to talk with adults.
Honestly, STFU. We're so tired of these lies. Israel offered crap terms with no right of return, no safety for Palestinians and no right to E Jerusalem. There were zero bona fide efforts by them. Israel deliberately gave crappy deals so that people like you could then say "but but the Palestinians!!!".
Israelis are murderous terrorists who stole land and killed natives. They've been on a misinformation binge for 75 years trying to rewrite history to center them as the victims. It is BS and we are not buying it any more. Everything that Israel has claimed has been a lie and we have seen it in real time.
While you cry for another genocide, we're trying to prevent it. We know what side of history that you are on.
Listen, kid, I'm not some Jewish college student you and your Hamas-loving buddies can bully and scare into silence.
You've been brainwashed by anti-Semitic propaganda, and now go around bleating catchphrases that you think make you look deep and progressive. You're just embarrassing yourself at this point. You probably list your pronouns in all your social media, and begin every meeting with a land acknowledgment.
Your Hamas homies are now discovering that it's a lot less fun to face the IDF, as opposed to murdering and raping unarmed teenagers and the elderly.
No, I've actually read the history. Jews landed from Europe to settle the Palestinian Territory. There were millions of natives there. They killed and displaced them. They burned villages, stole homes, raped women and forced thousands into exile. They've since forced the remaining natives into a military dictatorship and apartheid.
how you guys continue to support that becuase you are the "chosen ones" is really beyond any normal comprehension. It is kool-aid level cult derangement.
Why would a bunch of white Europeans spend nearly a hundred years fighting over a pile of sand in the middle east?
Hint: that's where they're actually from. They were in Europe because they were exiled there.
This is so ridiculous. My ancestors came across the Bering Straight when it was a block of ice. Do I get to kill Russians and Chinese to take their land?
Were you exiled from Russia?
Sure! I bet they were all kicked out. Does that mean I get to call for genocide? Seems a pretty easy pass. We would all get to engage in ethnic cleansing that way. What a great way to bond as a people. I guess when you have no sense of morality, it tracks
Why aren’t the Jews kicking the Germans and Poles off the land? They’re the ones who conducted the Holocaust. They should have to cede their land to pay for their crimes.
Jews aren't from Germany and Poland.
Wut. You must think we’re crazy. That is absolutely where Ashkenazi Jews are from. That’s why Yiddish is a Germanic language.
Why didn't Jews in Germany just speak German then?
Because those Jews WHO WERE IN GERMANY were a distinct ethnic group IN GERMANY. There were also Jews in Palestine during the Holocaust. They were not in Germany. In fact there are Jews all over the world. And yet it was the Jews who lived in Europe who suffered the horrors. So let Europe pay for it.
Glad you finally admitted that Jews aren't German, but just lived there.
Of course they were German. That’s the biggest horror of the Holocaust. That Europeans could do this to their own people. The fact that the Ashkenazi Jews were a victim of Nazis does not make them non-European. It makes them European victims of Europeans. What it does not make them is entitled to steal non-Europeans’ land.
The entire point of the Holocaust was that Hitler saw Jews as a different race of people. NO ONE saw Jews as European. Modern day Europeans probably still don't see them as European.
That may be. Let’s assume it’s true. It still isn’t the fault of the Palestinians.
We were talking about Jews being European or not. They are not.
They are indigenous to Israel/Palestine, just as Palestinians are.
Ashkenazi Jews came to Palestine from Europe. The Palestinians did not invite them. The English, in their infinite generosity, decided to gift Palestinian land to people from Europe. I don’t blame the European Jews for wanting a place to live, but I do blame them for cleansing the land of everyone but Jews.
First of all DNA tests prove that Ashkenazi Jews have nearly 100% Levantine paternal ancestry. The studies vary on the amount of Levantine maternal ancestry they have. It looks like during Roman times, Jewish men arrived, as slaves and as merchants, from Israel to Italy and many took local brides. The closest European group to Ashkenazi Jews are Italians and specifically Tuscans. But Ashkenazi Jews are most closely related to Sephardic Jews and then to Mizrahi Jews. They are not very related to Germans, although there’s some Central European ancestry, but it’s a minuscule amount.
DNA doesn’t lie. Ashkenazi Jews are Middle Eastern. Fact.
Secondly, the vast majority of Ashkenazi Jews live in the US, not Israel. The majority of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi. They have always lived in the Middle East. They have no connection to Europe at all.
Thirdly, over 20% of Israelis are Arabs, most of whom are Muslim. They didn’t listen to Arab leaders, who in their anger at the formation of Israel told them to leave, so that they could push the Jews into the sea. No, these Arabs chose to stay and they live peacefully in Israel. They are in the government, the judiciary, the World Cup team and many.of them are even in the IDF.
So, how exactly did the Ashkenazi’s come over to Israel and kick everyone else out? That’s just not true.
I'm only saying this because I find the whole premise of using 23andme absurd and I am disgusted by the story of the 10/7 victim family that was not allowed to be buried together in the Jewish cemetary.
Wouldn't paternal ancestry mean they are not Jewish, according to the Orthodox?
This isn’t 23andme. This is studied by scholars, geneticists and medical researchers from all over the world.
Not all of the maternal DNA is ancient European, just some of it is. The amount is disputed by the research.
Judaism doesn’t proselytize, but converts are fully accepted by the Orthodox if they take a Mikva and follow the 613 Mitvot. So, the descendants of women who converted to Judaism over 2,000 years ago and followed the Mitzvot are Jewish according to Jewish law.
I am not familiar with the sad situation you are talking about but Israel is a Jewish country and follows the Orthodox rules for marriage and burials. I don’t know what the situation is with the family you speak of, but they would have been aware of it.
Interesting. The story is quite simple, an entire family of 4 was killed. The father was not Jewish. They had to be buried "outside the fence" to stay together.
Anyway, I have now looked into these genetic studies and quite frankly it is very very weird how much research has been done on this.
The big takeaway is that according to genetic analysis based on Bronze age Canaanite remains the order of most Levantine is...
1. Bedouins
2. Christian Palestinians and Druze
3. Muslim Palestinians
4. Iraqis
5. Ashkenazi and
6. Sephardic.
I do not subscribe to the relevence of any of this. I think none of it matters because both sets of populations are there now and aren't going anywhere. But since there is someone on this thread that does care, and thinks it matters, I say to them that the Bedouins are far and away the most "indigenous" to the land and the Sephardic, unexpectedly, are the least.
You left out the Mizrahi Jews. Also, there is a lot of conflicting research on which group is most indigenous to the land. To the point that many scholars say it’s impossible to tell. The Torah itself shows the Jews arriving in the land of Canaanites. Likewise, the Arabs conquered it many, many years later. But it’s true that Jews and Iraqis and the Druze are apparently very, very closely related. Funny, huh?
Do you believe that since the Torah says the Jews “arrived” they came from elsewhere? Where? You do realize the Torah is a story and not a sourced historical document? I still think it’s obvious that some Canaanites became followers of Judaism. Then some followed Jesus. Then some of those plus others followed Mohammad. They are all cousins.
Anonymous wrote:Why are American Jews cloaked in the Israeli flag? They were rallying for Israel, not anything in America. I don’t understand the Americans waving Palestinian flags either. What happened to being American?
Why was a MIT student waving a Palestinian flag called “hateful” when it’s okay to wave an Israeli flag. That is the confusion I have.
Pa. And yes, I get that the Pro Israel protest was a lot more peaceful than the pro Palestinian protests have been.
I don’t think waving Palestinian flags is hateful, it’s waving Hamas/Isis etc flags that people find hateful
Anonymous wrote:Why are American Jews cloaked in the Israeli flag? They were rallying for Israel, not anything in America. I don’t understand the Americans waving Palestinian flags either. What happened to being American?
Why was a MIT student waving a Palestinian flag called “hateful” when it’s okay to wave an Israeli flag. That is the confusion I have.
Pa. And yes, I get that the Pro Israel protest was a lot more peaceful than the pro Palestinian protests have been.
I don’t think waving Palestinian flags is hateful, it’s waving Hamas/Isis etc flags that people find hateful
+1, though I’d add that waving the Palestinian flag on 10/7 was clearly done with hateful intentions.
Anonymous wrote:So many babies are dying because of Israel’s attacks on hospitals and lack of power for incubators.
They even had to dig mass graves for people.
Israel offered incubators. Offer refused.
I'm so tired of this BS Israeli twitter propaganda. They post a picture of incubators and pretend that they are helping when really all they have to do is stop bombing hospitals. Israel has also posted pics of Gazan citizens that IDF allegedly helps with food/water, only to shoot them point blank as soon as the photo op is over. These people are actual monsters.
Anonymous wrote:Why are American Jews cloaked in the Israeli flag? They were rallying for Israel, not anything in America. I don’t understand the Americans waving Palestinian flags either. What happened to being American?
Anonymous wrote:Why are American Jews cloaked in the Israeli flag? They were rallying for Israel, not anything in America. I don’t understand the Americans waving Palestinian flags either. What happened to being American?
Can you explain Ukrainian flags? I didn't know we had so many Ukrainians in the area.
Forum Index
»
Political Discussion
![[Post New]](/jforum/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif){kind=icon}