The Last of Us - HBO TV show (With game spoilers)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, it’s official. I can’t stand Ellie. She is the most sanctimonious ahole. We see in this episode what a tremendous father figure Joel was to her - yet when he tells her he saved her because he loves her, she says she can’t forgive him for that (not letting them kill her to develop a vaccine). What a tool. She owes everything to Joel. She didn’t deserve him.

Yeah, hated her this episode. The way she was so cruel to Gail. Eating cake like an animal. Just wanted to punch her smug face. What an insufferable character

Be real: you've hated her the whole show (and posted about it here, at length, after every episode).

She wasn't "cruel to Gail". She was cruel to Joel, refusing to keep his "little secret" because it made her realize he'd also lied to her about what happened with the fireflies. It's a time-honored teen tradition, breaking away from your allegiance to your authority figure/parent. It's just that, in this setting, the weight of it, the opportunity for it to be catastrophic instead of just dramatic, is so much greater. But she wasn't doing it to hurt Gail. She wasn't doing it for/against Gail at all. She didn't seem to think what it would mean for Gail. She did it to @ Joel, publicly, because she'd figured out he'd lied about keeping her alive.

NP. She was cruel to Gail. The truth of what happened was far more heartbreaking than her thinking Eugene was trying to keep her safe as he died. It was a selfish, stupid thing of Ellie to do.

Selfish, maybe, as she was using it as a dig at Joel. But she had no intention of being cruel to Gail, and cruelty requires motive. Did it suck for Gail? Absolutely. But that wasn't why Ellie did it. Gail's feelings were collateral damage in her fight with Joel.

I'll give you selfish. She wasn't thinking about how it would impact Gail. But since she wasn't thinking about how it would impact Gail, it isn't cruel toward her. Shite for her? Yes. But not cruel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, it’s official. I can’t stand Ellie. She is the most sanctimonious ahole. We see in this episode what a tremendous father figure Joel was to her - yet when he tells her he saved her because he loves her, she says she can’t forgive him for that (not letting them kill her to develop a vaccine). What a tool. She owes everything to Joel. She didn’t deserve him.

Yeah, hated her this episode. The way she was so cruel to Gail. Eating cake like an animal. Just wanted to punch her smug face. What an insufferable character

Be real: you've hated her the whole show (and posted about it here, at length, after every episode).

She wasn't "cruel to Gail". She was cruel to Joel, refusing to keep his "little secret" because it made her realize he'd also lied to her about what happened with the fireflies. It's a time-honored teen tradition, breaking away from your allegiance to your authority figure/parent. It's just that, in this setting, the weight of it, the opportunity for it to be catastrophic instead of just dramatic, is so much greater. But she wasn't doing it to hurt Gail. She wasn't doing it for/against Gail at all. She didn't seem to think what it would mean for Gail. She did it to @ Joel, publicly, because she'd figured out he'd lied about keeping her alive.

I'm not the PP, but I think it's fair to say YOU keep coming here to post about how great the Ellie character is. And you post about it here, at length, after every episode. Some of us think she's a rude brat with zero graces.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t get it. If Ellie is so against not being killed to save humanity why doesn’t she just give herself up to them so they can make a cure and a martyr out of her?

I've wondered the same and have a feeing she will do that while in Seattle. I hope she does so she'll be gone from this show.

[Anonymous]

*feeling

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, it’s official. I can’t stand Ellie. She is the most sanctimonious ahole. We see in this episode what a tremendous father figure Joel was to her - yet when he tells her he saved her because he loves her, she says she can’t forgive him for that (not letting them kill her to develop a vaccine). What a tool. She owes everything to Joel. She didn’t deserve him.

Yeah, hated her this episode. The way she was so cruel to Gail. Eating cake like an animal. Just wanted to punch her smug face. What an insufferable character

Be real: you've hated her the whole show (and posted about it here, at length, after every episode).

She wasn't "cruel to Gail". She was cruel to Joel, refusing to keep his "little secret" because it made her realize he'd also lied to her about what happened with the fireflies. It's a time-honored teen tradition, breaking away from your allegiance to your authority figure/parent. It's just that, in this setting, the weight of it, the opportunity for it to be catastrophic instead of just dramatic, is so much greater. But she wasn't doing it to hurt Gail. She wasn't doing it for/against Gail at all. She didn't seem to think what it would mean for Gail. She did it to @ Joel, publicly, because she'd figured out he'd lied about keeping her alive.

NP. She was cruel to Gail. The truth of what happened was far more heartbreaking than her thinking Eugene was trying to keep her safe as he died. It was a selfish, stupid thing of Ellie to do.

+100
It was an awful thing for Ellie to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What did Ellie see on her birthday hike with Joel? Was it spores?

Fireflies

I thought she saw the floating particles of the cordyceps infection, just as she had seen them in the basement of that building. It seemed like she was realizing that soon the virus would be airborne.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, it’s official. I can’t stand Ellie. She is the most sanctimonious ahole. We see in this episode what a tremendous father figure Joel was to her - yet when he tells her he saved her because he loves her, she says she can’t forgive him for that (not letting them kill her to develop a vaccine). What a tool. She owes everything to Joel. She didn’t deserve him.

Yeah, hated her this episode. The way she was so cruel to Gail. Eating cake like an animal. Just wanted to punch her smug face. What an insufferable character

Be real: you've hated her the whole show (and posted about it here, at length, after every episode).

She wasn't "cruel to Gail". She was cruel to Joel, refusing to keep his "little secret" because it made her realize he'd also lied to her about what happened with the fireflies. It's a time-honored teen tradition, breaking away from your allegiance to your authority figure/parent. It's just that, in this setting, the weight of it, the opportunity for it to be catastrophic instead of just dramatic, is so much greater. But she wasn't doing it to hurt Gail. She wasn't doing it for/against Gail at all. She didn't seem to think what it would mean for Gail. She did it to @ Joel, publicly, because she'd figured out he'd lied about keeping her alive.

Her actions were cruel. Gail DGAF about her motivations.

Cruelty requires motivation to harm. Gail got hurt, the action was damaging, but it wasn't designed to be cruel to Gail.

I disagree with you. I think she was so reckless as to the effects of her actions on Gail that it rises to the level of cruelty. She was recklessly indifferent and careless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What did Ellie see on her birthday hike with Joel? Was it spores?

Fireflies

I thought she saw the floating particles of the cordyceps infection, just as she had seen them in the basement of that building. It seemed like she was realizing that soon the virus would be airborne.

I'm the PP who asked the question and that's what I thought as well. What significance would fireflies have (other than foreshadowing?). I did think though that if they had been spores she would have said something because otherwise everyone in Jackson could have died, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What did Ellie see on her birthday hike with Joel? Was it spores?

Fireflies

I thought she saw the floating particles of the cordyceps infection, just as she had seen them in the basement of that building. It seemed like she was realizing that soon the virus would be airborne.

She saw spores in the building in Seattle right? Long after she had her hike with Joel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, it’s official. I can’t stand Ellie. She is the most sanctimonious ahole. We see in this episode what a tremendous father figure Joel was to her - yet when he tells her he saved her because he loves her, she says she can’t forgive him for that (not letting them kill her to develop a vaccine). What a tool. She owes everything to Joel. She didn’t deserve him.

Yeah, hated her this episode. The way she was so cruel to Gail. Eating cake like an animal. Just wanted to punch her smug face. What an insufferable character

Be real: you've hated her the whole show (and posted about it here, at length, after every episode).

She wasn't "cruel to Gail". She was cruel to Joel, refusing to keep his "little secret" because it made her realize he'd also lied to her about what happened with the fireflies. It's a time-honored teen tradition, breaking away from your allegiance to your authority figure/parent. It's just that, in this setting, the weight of it, the opportunity for it to be catastrophic instead of just dramatic, is so much greater. But she wasn't doing it to hurt Gail. She wasn't doing it for/against Gail at all. She didn't seem to think what it would mean for Gail. She did it to @ Joel, publicly, because she'd figured out he'd lied about keeping her alive.

Her actions were cruel. Gail DGAF about her motivations.

Cruelty requires motivation to harm. Gail got hurt, the action was damaging, but it wasn't designed to be cruel to Gail.

I disagree with you. I think she was so reckless as to the effects of her actions on Gail that it rises to the level of cruelty. She was recklessly indifferent and careless.

I don't get the Bella Ramsey or Ellie hate at all. The point is that there are no good guys or bad guys - everyone is making difficult choices in difficult circumstances. Joel's decision to save Ellie and kill the Fireflies could be seen as the most selfish move of all. He couldn't bare to lose another daughter so he saved her for himself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t get it. If Ellie is so against not being killed to save humanity why doesn’t she just give herself up to them so they can make a cure and a martyr out of her?

I've wondered the same and have a feeing she will do that while in Seattle. I hope she does so she'll be gone from this show.

Why do you think that? She’s going to Seattle on a murder mission. None of the people who were creating the vax are even alive - Joel killed them. So I’m curious why you think this is what’s going to happen

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, it’s official. I can’t stand Ellie. She is the most sanctimonious ahole. We see in this episode what a tremendous father figure Joel was to her - yet when he tells her he saved her because he loves her, she says she can’t forgive him for that (not letting them kill her to develop a vaccine). What a tool. She owes everything to Joel. She didn’t deserve him.

Yeah, hated her this episode. The way she was so cruel to Gail. Eating cake like an animal. Just wanted to punch her smug face. What an insufferable character

Be real: you've hated her the whole show (and posted about it here, at length, after every episode).

She wasn't "cruel to Gail". She was cruel to Joel, refusing to keep his "little secret" because it made her realize he'd also lied to her about what happened with the fireflies. It's a time-honored teen tradition, breaking away from your allegiance to your authority figure/parent. It's just that, in this setting, the weight of it, the opportunity for it to be catastrophic instead of just dramatic, is so much greater. But she wasn't doing it to hurt Gail. She wasn't doing it for/against Gail at all. She didn't seem to think what it would mean for Gail. She did it to @ Joel, publicly, because she'd figured out he'd lied about keeping her alive.

I'm not the PP, but I think it's fair to say YOU keep coming here to post about how great the Ellie character is. And you post about it here, at length, after every episode. Some of us think she's a rude brat with zero graces.

Literally my first post about her, but you're welcome to be as wrong as you'd like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, it’s official. I can’t stand Ellie. She is the most sanctimonious ahole. We see in this episode what a tremendous father figure Joel was to her - yet when he tells her he saved her because he loves her, she says she can’t forgive him for that (not letting them kill her to develop a vaccine). What a tool. She owes everything to Joel. She didn’t deserve him.

Yeah, hated her this episode. The way she was so cruel to Gail. Eating cake like an animal. Just wanted to punch her smug face. What an insufferable character

Be real: you've hated her the whole show (and posted about it here, at length, after every episode).

She wasn't "cruel to Gail". She was cruel to Joel, refusing to keep his "little secret" because it made her realize he'd also lied to her about what happened with the fireflies. It's a time-honored teen tradition, breaking away from your allegiance to your authority figure/parent. It's just that, in this setting, the weight of it, the opportunity for it to be catastrophic instead of just dramatic, is so much greater. But she wasn't doing it to hurt Gail. She wasn't doing it for/against Gail at all. She didn't seem to think what it would mean for Gail. She did it to @ Joel, publicly, because she'd figured out he'd lied about keeping her alive.

Her actions were cruel. Gail DGAF about her motivations.

Cruelty requires motivation to harm. Gail got hurt, the action was damaging, but it wasn't designed to be cruel to Gail.

I disagree with you. I think she was so reckless as to the effects of her actions on Gail that it rises to the level of cruelty. She was recklessly indifferent and careless.

I don't get the Bella Ramsey or Ellie hate at all. The point is that there are no good guys or bad guys - everyone is making difficult choices in difficult circumstances. Joel's decision to save Ellie and kill the Fireflies could be seen as the most selfish move of all. He couldn't bare to lose another daughter so he saved her for himself.

I agree with you. Joel was selfish in his choice to save Ellie. That doesn't make Ellie any less selish.

I think she had a very stunted childhood/life and she's lacking a lot of emotional maturity. That's not her fault, but it does make what she does unlikeable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, it’s official. I can’t stand Ellie. She is the most sanctimonious ahole. We see in this episode what a tremendous father figure Joel was to her - yet when he tells her he saved her because he loves her, she says she can’t forgive him for that (not letting them kill her to develop a vaccine). What a tool. She owes everything to Joel. She didn’t deserve him.

Yeah, hated her this episode. The way she was so cruel to Gail. Eating cake like an animal. Just wanted to punch her smug face. What an insufferable character

Be real: you've hated her the whole show (and posted about it here, at length, after every episode).

She wasn't "cruel to Gail". She was cruel to Joel, refusing to keep his "little secret" because it made her realize he'd also lied to her about what happened with the fireflies. It's a time-honored teen tradition, breaking away from your allegiance to your authority figure/parent. It's just that, in this setting, the weight of it, the opportunity for it to be catastrophic instead of just dramatic, is so much greater. But she wasn't doing it to hurt Gail. She wasn't doing it for/against Gail at all. She didn't seem to think what it would mean for Gail. She did it to @ Joel, publicly, because she'd figured out he'd lied about keeping her alive.

Her actions were cruel. Gail DGAF about her motivations.

Cruelty requires motivation to harm. Gail got hurt, the action was damaging, but it wasn't designed to be cruel to Gail.

I disagree with you. I think she was so reckless as to the effects of her actions on Gail that it rises to the level of cruelty. She was recklessly indifferent and careless.

+1
That was an awful thing to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What did Ellie see on her birthday hike with Joel? Was it spores?

Fireflies

I thought she saw the floating particles of the cordyceps infection, just as she had seen them in the basement of that building. It seemed like she was realizing that soon the virus would be airborne.

I'm the PP who asked the question and that's what I thought as well. What significance would fireflies have (other than foreshadowing?). I did think though that if they had been spores she would have said something because otherwise everyone in Jackson could have died, right?

They didn’t look like spores. I think it was a somewhat heavy-handed way of showing what was on her mind, and how she connected to look on Joel’s face re the Eugene promise to the look on his face when he swore raiders killed the fireflies in SLC.