Crown boundary study Option H

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Makes zero sense to fix up Wootton to be used as a regular HS AND have Crown when we have declining enrollment and a tight budget.

Exactly, and I get frustration, as Taylor said if the decision was made today to build Crown they would not have done so, that money could have gone towards Damascus Wootton and Magruder replacements. However the reason why Wootton has not been touched for 20-25 years (Churchill got a full renovation and major addition back in 2001 and was about 5 years older so Wootton theoretically should been due in 2006) is because its location and site do not allow for a new school to be built on the fields while students attend the current facility and thus needed a holding school. I don’t know what this was never explicitly stated vs constantly jerking the community along like Charlie Brown and the football. Wootton will never be renovated without a holding school period end of story. It’s also very different than Churchill which has a renovation while students were in side, in Churchills case a big addition was done first which allowed several huge sections of the school to be redone after the addition opened. This isn’t really practical at Wootton as there’s no suitable land to add a massive 600-800 seat addition. The site is too small and has problems.

Not only that but then you add the budget woes, how can you in good faith spend money to rebuild a high school when enrollment is declining and there is no need for Wootton and when one was constructed only a few miles away in Crown (I agree ill advised). There is no need for Woottons seats there will still be 3-4 thousand seats open at the high school level without it once Crown Woodward Northwood and Damascus are done (assuming Magruder gets redone too). Unfortunately with just three high schools over 40 years old the most logical one to close is the one pretty much next to Crown.

All the money could be better spent on renovating/replacing two middle schools or 5-6 elementary schools.

This county needs to rethink things in a big way and that’s inevitably going to mean closing more schools and reasoning students vs pooling money into a million schools that quite frankly are not needed.

Why would Wootton need addition? They have 2200 seats already. Not like other schools only have 1500 which need expansion

My comment on addition at Wootton was in regards to doing a renovation on site. The way the current school is sited and the rest of the land on which it sits, it doesn’t permit for a very large addition which would allow them to work on renovating the rest of the school a section at a time and eventually demolishing another area of the school to use as a field. I think when Churchill was renovated in like 1998-2001 they started with a very large addition which held a lot of students. This let them demolish another existing area of the school (became parking lot to replace the parking that existed where the addition was built) and then they worked on wings of the school renovating one section at a time while students used the new addition and other non-renovated areas of the school, then the newly renovated area opened and a non-renovated area closed to be renovated. What I’m saying is that process isn’t possible at Wootton which means a holding school is required in order to renovate the school. This is why it’s never been done.

Then the question becomes does it make sense to spend $400M on a high school nearby a brand new high school when the county wide excess seats will be more than 5000 at the HS level and there are so many other needs in the county. Closing Damascus isn’t an option given its location, Magruder would be a challenge too. So because of the poor decision to build Crown which was made at a time when it seemed it would be needed, unfortunately logically it makes the most sense to close Wootton and add some money to fix some key areas and use it as a holding school.

There are so many secondary schools that need renovations in the coming decade and having a holding school will be essential.

If we had unlimited money and were in a good economic situation sure rebuild Wootton but the reality is we are not.

Wootton had a large addition back in 2000 too. It’s just the original building part which never got any renovation.
You can’t treat Wootton differently from other schools. Damascus Magruder can have a rebuild but Wootton cannot because of economic situation. Why not moving the other two?

Magruder has some far more serious issues as do other schools.

Either way, I don’t think option H is viable for the such strong opposition from Wootton cluster. MCPS will most likely not push against the whole community and force them to relocate with a boundary process which doesn’t have even sound legal.
Let’s focus on other options.

Of course it is. They demanded a new building and are getting it.

They demanded a new building at the current Wootton site. You conveniently left out that part. As another poster mentioned, Wootton is important to the surrounding community. You might not think 3 miles makes a difference, but it does to parents whose kids walk to and from school. Bussing isn't the answer unless MCPS can guarantee busses for ALL after school and weekend activities to replace walk ability, which it can't.

But right now many current Wootton students are bussed from Dufief, Stone Mill and Travilah areas. I dont understand the difference it would just mean current walkers are no longer walkers.

So you want to go from 50% walkers to 0% walkers. Got it.

Are you dense? It will not be 0% walkers. It will be a new set of walkers - too bad if it isn't your neighborhood that gets to walk. That is the reality in other parts of the county.

Not dense at all. There aren't any walkers to Crown - because Crown doesn't yet exist. But you don't care about the kids who can currently walk to Wootton. I'll bet you don't even have kids that go there, but wish they did.

Why should the system prefer one neighborhood (the one right next to Wootton) with regard to walking over another (the one right next to Crown)?

So you don't care what a core neighborhood to Wootton thinks - one that has been there since Wootton opened its doors in 1970?

Incorrect -- I care about them the same amount that I care about those near Crown. Do you?

When/If Crown opens the neighborhoods right there will be going anyway-regardless of what happens to Wootton. If they aren’t sent there as soon as it opens-they will be eventually so it doesn’t really matter.

The choice appears to come down to making Wootton a holding school or making Crown a holding school. 10 years or so down the line, if there is a rebound in student population, they may convert whichever one is then a holding school into a proper HS. If that is the current Wootton facility, it would need a much more substantial/complete renovation than whatever they would do to make it ready to hold Damascus/Magruder/whichever projects come after, if not its own complete rebuild.

Of course, whichever other secondary facilities then are in line for capital improvement would need a different holding facility if the work could not be completed while students are on-site, and that would see similar overall consideration to that which we see, here, hopefully much farther in advance and with much greater attention to meaningful community engagement.

So, again, with that likely the choice, do you care about the neighborhoods around Wootton the same amount as you care about the neighborhoods around Crown?

i’m not sure what you mean. Those neighborhoods want Crown for the same reason that Wootton adjacent neighborhoods want Wootton. Even if Crown becomes a holding school-they could still have the walking neighborhoods at the same time. The hybrid option is already one of the options on the study so it’s not a new idea.

If they truly are considering hybrid at this point, you may have a point, but I think that unlikely in the extreme.

Assuming you were not being intentionally daft to avoid answering the question, imagine that they find that financial and enrollment exigencies mean that the choice is between a holding school (no hybrid) being at the new Crown building or at the old Wootton building. In that case, would you care about the neighborhoods around Crown the same as you would care about the neighborhoods around Wootton? (Reversing the order, here, for the benefit of common interpretation, as evidenced as better clarifying from the above post.)

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Makes zero sense to fix up Wootton to be used as a regular HS AND have Crown when we have declining enrollment and a tight budget.

Exactly, and I get frustration, as Taylor said if the decision was made today to build Crown they would not have done so, that money could have gone towards Damascus Wootton and Magruder replacements. However the reason why Wootton has not been touched for 20-25 years (Churchill got a full renovation and major addition back in 2001 and was about 5 years older so Wootton theoretically should been due in 2006) is because its location and site do not allow for a new school to be built on the fields while students attend the current facility and thus needed a holding school. I don’t know what this was never explicitly stated vs constantly jerking the community along like Charlie Brown and the football. Wootton will never be renovated without a holding school period end of story. It’s also very different than Churchill which has a renovation while students were in side, in Churchills case a big addition was done first which allowed several huge sections of the school to be redone after the addition opened. This isn’t really practical at Wootton as there’s no suitable land to add a massive 600-800 seat addition. The site is too small and has problems.

Not only that but then you add the budget woes, how can you in good faith spend money to rebuild a high school when enrollment is declining and there is no need for Wootton and when one was constructed only a few miles away in Crown (I agree ill advised). There is no need for Woottons seats there will still be 3-4 thousand seats open at the high school level without it once Crown Woodward Northwood and Damascus are done (assuming Magruder gets redone too). Unfortunately with just three high schools over 40 years old the most logical one to close is the one pretty much next to Crown.

All the money could be better spent on renovating/replacing two middle schools or 5-6 elementary schools.

This county needs to rethink things in a big way and that’s inevitably going to mean closing more schools and reasoning students vs pooling money into a million schools that quite frankly are not needed.

Why would Wootton need addition? They have 2200 seats already. Not like other schools only have 1500 which need expansion

My comment on addition at Wootton was in regards to doing a renovation on site. The way the current school is sited and the rest of the land on which it sits, it doesn’t permit for a very large addition which would allow them to work on renovating the rest of the school a section at a time and eventually demolishing another area of the school to use as a field. I think when Churchill was renovated in like 1998-2001 they started with a very large addition which held a lot of students. This let them demolish another existing area of the school (became parking lot to replace the parking that existed where the addition was built) and then they worked on wings of the school renovating one section at a time while students used the new addition and other non-renovated areas of the school, then the newly renovated area opened and a non-renovated area closed to be renovated. What I’m saying is that process isn’t possible at Wootton which means a holding school is required in order to renovate the school. This is why it’s never been done.

Then the question becomes does it make sense to spend $400M on a high school nearby a brand new high school when the county wide excess seats will be more than 5000 at the HS level and there are so many other needs in the county. Closing Damascus isn’t an option given its location, Magruder would be a challenge too. So because of the poor decision to build Crown which was made at a time when it seemed it would be needed, unfortunately logically it makes the most sense to close Wootton and add some money to fix some key areas and use it as a holding school.

There are so many secondary schools that need renovations in the coming decade and having a holding school will be essential.

If we had unlimited money and were in a good economic situation sure rebuild Wootton but the reality is we are not.

Wootton had a large addition back in 2000 too. It’s just the original building part which never got any renovation.
You can’t treat Wootton differently from other schools. Damascus Magruder can have a rebuild but Wootton cannot because of economic situation. Why not moving the other two?

Magruder has some far more serious issues as do other schools.

Either way, I don’t think option H is viable for the such strong opposition from Wootton cluster. MCPS will most likely not push against the whole community and force them to relocate with a boundary process which doesn’t have even sound legal.
Let’s focus on other options.

Of course it is. They demanded a new building and are getting it.

They demanded a new building at the current Wootton site. You conveniently left out that part. As another poster mentioned, Wootton is important to the surrounding community. You might not think 3 miles makes a difference, but it does to parents whose kids walk to and from school. Bussing isn't the answer unless MCPS can guarantee busses for ALL after school and weekend activities to replace walk ability, which it can't.

But right now many current Wootton students are bussed from Dufief, Stone Mill and Travilah areas. I dont understand the difference it would just mean current walkers are no longer walkers.

So you want to go from 50% walkers to 0% walkers. Got it.

Are you dense? It will not be 0% walkers. It will be a new set of walkers - too bad if it isn't your neighborhood that gets to walk. That is the reality in other parts of the county.

Not dense at all. There aren't any walkers to Crown - because Crown doesn't yet exist. But you don't care about the kids who can currently walk to Wootton. I'll bet you don't even have kids that go there, but wish they did.

Why should the system prefer one neighborhood (the one right next to Wootton) with regard to walking over another (the one right next to Crown)?

So you don't care what a core neighborhood to Wootton thinks - one that has been there since Wootton opened its doors in 1970?

Incorrect -- I care about them the same amount that I care about those near Crown. Do you?

When/If Crown opens the neighborhoods right there will be going anyway-regardless of what happens to Wootton. If they aren’t sent there as soon as it opens-they will be eventually so it doesn’t really matter.

The choice appears to come down to making Wootton a holding school or making Crown a holding school. 10 years or so down the line, if there is a rebound in student population, they may convert whichever one is then a holding school into a proper HS. If that is the current Wootton facility, it would need a much more substantial/complete renovation than whatever they would do to make it ready to hold Damascus/Magruder/whichever projects come after, if not its own complete rebuild.

Of course, whichever other secondary facilities then are in line for capital improvement would need a different holding facility if the work could not be completed while students are on-site, and that would see similar overall consideration to that which we see, here, hopefully much farther in advance and with much greater attention to meaningful community engagement.

So, again, with that likely the choice, do you care about the neighborhoods around Wootton the same amount as you care about the neighborhoods around Crown?

Of course they don’t care about Wootton neighborhoods when they’re Wootton haters.

I understand your confusion, as one usually might ask, "Do you care about the neighborhoods around Crown the same as you care about the neighborhoods around Wootton?" when trying to encourage equal consideration from those seeming to favor the latter, while I, intentionally, framed it in reverse to parallel the earlier query that had gone unanswered. That was posed to someone who seemed not to be giving Crown-area residents equal consideration to Wootton-area residents when defending Wootton's walk zone in the discussion.

I guess if we want to maximize walk zone, the best is to make both schools open as permanent schools and not holding schools. If Wootton moves to crown, the walk zone is significantly smaller as crown is surrounded by major highways (basically only crown and Rio are possibly walkable). But Wootton has half of school as walk zone.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Makes zero sense to fix up Wootton to be used as a regular HS AND have Crown when we have declining enrollment and a tight budget.

Exactly, and I get frustration, as Taylor said if the decision was made today to build Crown they would not have done so, that money could have gone towards Damascus Wootton and Magruder replacements. However the reason why Wootton has not been touched for 20-25 years (Churchill got a full renovation and major addition back in 2001 and was about 5 years older so Wootton theoretically should been due in 2006) is because its location and site do not allow for a new school to be built on the fields while students attend the current facility and thus needed a holding school. I don’t know what this was never explicitly stated vs constantly jerking the community along like Charlie Brown and the football. Wootton will never be renovated without a holding school period end of story. It’s also very different than Churchill which has a renovation while students were in side, in Churchills case a big addition was done first which allowed several huge sections of the school to be redone after the addition opened. This isn’t really practical at Wootton as there’s no suitable land to add a massive 600-800 seat addition. The site is too small and has problems.

Not only that but then you add the budget woes, how can you in good faith spend money to rebuild a high school when enrollment is declining and there is no need for Wootton and when one was constructed only a few miles away in Crown (I agree ill advised). There is no need for Woottons seats there will still be 3-4 thousand seats open at the high school level without it once Crown Woodward Northwood and Damascus are done (assuming Magruder gets redone too). Unfortunately with just three high schools over 40 years old the most logical one to close is the one pretty much next to Crown.

All the money could be better spent on renovating/replacing two middle schools or 5-6 elementary schools.

This county needs to rethink things in a big way and that’s inevitably going to mean closing more schools and reasoning students vs pooling money into a million schools that quite frankly are not needed.

Why would Wootton need addition? They have 2200 seats already. Not like other schools only have 1500 which need expansion

My comment on addition at Wootton was in regards to doing a renovation on site. The way the current school is sited and the rest of the land on which it sits, it doesn’t permit for a very large addition which would allow them to work on renovating the rest of the school a section at a time and eventually demolishing another area of the school to use as a field. I think when Churchill was renovated in like 1998-2001 they started with a very large addition which held a lot of students. This let them demolish another existing area of the school (became parking lot to replace the parking that existed where the addition was built) and then they worked on wings of the school renovating one section at a time while students used the new addition and other non-renovated areas of the school, then the newly renovated area opened and a non-renovated area closed to be renovated. What I’m saying is that process isn’t possible at Wootton which means a holding school is required in order to renovate the school. This is why it’s never been done.

Then the question becomes does it make sense to spend $400M on a high school nearby a brand new high school when the county wide excess seats will be more than 5000 at the HS level and there are so many other needs in the county. Closing Damascus isn’t an option given its location, Magruder would be a challenge too. So because of the poor decision to build Crown which was made at a time when it seemed it would be needed, unfortunately logically it makes the most sense to close Wootton and add some money to fix some key areas and use it as a holding school.

There are so many secondary schools that need renovations in the coming decade and having a holding school will be essential.

If we had unlimited money and were in a good economic situation sure rebuild Wootton but the reality is we are not.

Wootton had a large addition back in 2000 too. It’s just the original building part which never got any renovation.
You can’t treat Wootton differently from other schools. Damascus Magruder can have a rebuild but Wootton cannot because of economic situation. Why not moving the other two?

Magruder has some far more serious issues as do other schools.

Either way, I don’t think option H is viable for the such strong opposition from Wootton cluster. MCPS will most likely not push against the whole community and force them to relocate with a boundary process which doesn’t have even sound legal.
Let’s focus on other options.

Of course it is. They demanded a new building and are getting it.

They demanded a new building at the current Wootton site. You conveniently left out that part. As another poster mentioned, Wootton is important to the surrounding community. You might not think 3 miles makes a difference, but it does to parents whose kids walk to and from school. Bussing isn't the answer unless MCPS can guarantee busses for ALL after school and weekend activities to replace walk ability, which it can't.

But right now many current Wootton students are bussed from Dufief, Stone Mill and Travilah areas. I dont understand the difference it would just mean current walkers are no longer walkers.

So you want to go from 50% walkers to 0% walkers. Got it.

Are you dense? It will not be 0% walkers. It will be a new set of walkers - too bad if it isn't your neighborhood that gets to walk. That is the reality in other parts of the county.

Not dense at all. There aren't any walkers to Crown - because Crown doesn't yet exist. But you don't care about the kids who can currently walk to Wootton. I'll bet you don't even have kids that go there, but wish they did.

Why should the system prefer one neighborhood (the one right next to Wootton) with regard to walking over another (the one right next to Crown)?

So you don't care what a core neighborhood to Wootton thinks - one that has been there since Wootton opened its doors in 1970?

Incorrect -- I care about them the same amount that I care about those near Crown. Do you?

When/If Crown opens the neighborhoods right there will be going anyway-regardless of what happens to Wootton. If they aren’t sent there as soon as it opens-they will be eventually so it doesn’t really matter.

The choice appears to come down to making Wootton a holding school or making Crown a holding school. 10 years or so down the line, if there is a rebound in student population, they may convert whichever one is then a holding school into a proper HS. If that is the current Wootton facility, it would need a much more substantial/complete renovation than whatever they would do to make it ready to hold Damascus/Magruder/whichever projects come after, if not its own complete rebuild.

Of course, whichever other secondary facilities then are in line for capital improvement would need a different holding facility if the work could not be completed while students are on-site, and that would see similar overall consideration to that which we see, here, hopefully much farther in advance and with much greater attention to meaningful community engagement.

So, again, with that likely the choice, do you care about the neighborhoods around Wootton the same amount as you care about the neighborhoods around Crown?

Of course they don’t care about Wootton neighborhoods when they’re Wootton haters.

No one hates Wootton but we recognize that there are far worse off schools and you are being offered a brand new school nearby and refusing it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Makes zero sense to fix up Wootton to be used as a regular HS AND have Crown when we have declining enrollment and a tight budget.

Exactly, and I get frustration, as Taylor said if the decision was made today to build Crown they would not have done so, that money could have gone towards Damascus Wootton and Magruder replacements. However the reason why Wootton has not been touched for 20-25 years (Churchill got a full renovation and major addition back in 2001 and was about 5 years older so Wootton theoretically should been due in 2006) is because its location and site do not allow for a new school to be built on the fields while students attend the current facility and thus needed a holding school. I don’t know what this was never explicitly stated vs constantly jerking the community along like Charlie Brown and the football. Wootton will never be renovated without a holding school period end of story. It’s also very different than Churchill which has a renovation while students were in side, in Churchills case a big addition was done first which allowed several huge sections of the school to be redone after the addition opened. This isn’t really practical at Wootton as there’s no suitable land to add a massive 600-800 seat addition. The site is too small and has problems.

Not only that but then you add the budget woes, how can you in good faith spend money to rebuild a high school when enrollment is declining and there is no need for Wootton and when one was constructed only a few miles away in Crown (I agree ill advised). There is no need for Woottons seats there will still be 3-4 thousand seats open at the high school level without it once Crown Woodward Northwood and Damascus are done (assuming Magruder gets redone too). Unfortunately with just three high schools over 40 years old the most logical one to close is the one pretty much next to Crown.

All the money could be better spent on renovating/replacing two middle schools or 5-6 elementary schools.

This county needs to rethink things in a big way and that’s inevitably going to mean closing more schools and reasoning students vs pooling money into a million schools that quite frankly are not needed.

Why would Wootton need addition? They have 2200 seats already. Not like other schools only have 1500 which need expansion

My comment on addition at Wootton was in regards to doing a renovation on site. The way the current school is sited and the rest of the land on which it sits, it doesn’t permit for a very large addition which would allow them to work on renovating the rest of the school a section at a time and eventually demolishing another area of the school to use as a field. I think when Churchill was renovated in like 1998-2001 they started with a very large addition which held a lot of students. This let them demolish another existing area of the school (became parking lot to replace the parking that existed where the addition was built) and then they worked on wings of the school renovating one section at a time while students used the new addition and other non-renovated areas of the school, then the newly renovated area opened and a non-renovated area closed to be renovated. What I’m saying is that process isn’t possible at Wootton which means a holding school is required in order to renovate the school. This is why it’s never been done.

Then the question becomes does it make sense to spend $400M on a high school nearby a brand new high school when the county wide excess seats will be more than 5000 at the HS level and there are so many other needs in the county. Closing Damascus isn’t an option given its location, Magruder would be a challenge too. So because of the poor decision to build Crown which was made at a time when it seemed it would be needed, unfortunately logically it makes the most sense to close Wootton and add some money to fix some key areas and use it as a holding school.

There are so many secondary schools that need renovations in the coming decade and having a holding school will be essential.

If we had unlimited money and were in a good economic situation sure rebuild Wootton but the reality is we are not.

Wootton had a large addition back in 2000 too. It’s just the original building part which never got any renovation.
You can’t treat Wootton differently from other schools. Damascus Magruder can have a rebuild but Wootton cannot because of economic situation. Why not moving the other two?

Magruder has some far more serious issues as do other schools.

Either way, I don’t think option H is viable for the such strong opposition from Wootton cluster. MCPS will most likely not push against the whole community and force them to relocate with a boundary process which doesn’t have even sound legal.
Let’s focus on other options.

Of course it is. They demanded a new building and are getting it.

They demanded a new building at the current Wootton site. You conveniently left out that part. As another poster mentioned, Wootton is important to the surrounding community. You might not think 3 miles makes a difference, but it does to parents whose kids walk to and from school. Bussing isn't the answer unless MCPS can guarantee busses for ALL after school and weekend activities to replace walk ability, which it can't.

But right now many current Wootton students are bussed from Dufief, Stone Mill and Travilah areas. I dont understand the difference it would just mean current walkers are no longer walkers.

So you want to go from 50% walkers to 0% walkers. Got it.

Are you dense? It will not be 0% walkers. It will be a new set of walkers - too bad if it isn't your neighborhood that gets to walk. That is the reality in other parts of the county.

Not dense at all. There aren't any walkers to Crown - because Crown doesn't yet exist. But you don't care about the kids who can currently walk to Wootton. I'll bet you don't even have kids that go there, but wish they did.

Why should the system prefer one neighborhood (the one right next to Wootton) with regard to walking over another (the one right next to Crown)?

So you don't care what a core neighborhood to Wootton thinks - one that has been there since Wootton opened its doors in 1970?

Incorrect -- I care about them the same amount that I care about those near Crown. Do you?

When/If Crown opens the neighborhoods right there will be going anyway-regardless of what happens to Wootton. If they aren’t sent there as soon as it opens-they will be eventually so it doesn’t really matter.

The choice appears to come down to making Wootton a holding school or making Crown a holding school. 10 years or so down the line, if there is a rebound in student population, they may convert whichever one is then a holding school into a proper HS. If that is the current Wootton facility, it would need a much more substantial/complete renovation than whatever they would do to make it ready to hold Damascus/Magruder/whichever projects come after, if not its own complete rebuild.

Of course, whichever other secondary facilities then are in line for capital improvement would need a different holding facility if the work could not be completed while students are on-site, and that would see similar overall consideration to that which we see, here, hopefully much farther in advance and with much greater attention to meaningful community engagement.

So, again, with that likely the choice, do you care about the neighborhoods around Wootton the same amount as you care about the neighborhoods around Crown?

Of course they don’t care about Wootton neighborhoods when they’re Wootton haters.

I understand your confusion, as one usually might ask, "Do you care about the neighborhoods around Crown the same as you care about the neighborhoods around Wootton?" when trying to encourage equal consideration from those seeming to favor the latter, while I, intentionally, framed it in reverse to parallel the earlier query that had gone unanswered. That was posed to someone who seemed not to be giving Crown-area residents equal consideration to Wootton-area residents when defending Wootton's walk zone in the discussion.

I guess if we want to maximize walk zone, the best is to make both schools open as permanent schools and not holding schools. If Wootton moves to crown, the walk zone is significantly smaller as crown is surrounded by major highways (basically only crown and Rio are possibly walkable). But Wootton has half of school as walk zone.

OK, assuming you are the same poster, clearly you feel uncomfortable answering the question. The answer should be that the decision-makers, here, should care exactly the same for each...even if those in one or other area naturally might care more about their own.

That said, walk zone isn't the only factor, even as it would tend to grade out evenly between those two options. Those not wanting Wootton to become the choice as a holding school, presuming one or other will, might pursue arguments along other lines.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Makes zero sense to fix up Wootton to be used as a regular HS AND have Crown when we have declining enrollment and a tight budget.

Exactly, and I get frustration, as Taylor said if the decision was made today to build Crown they would not have done so, that money could have gone towards Damascus Wootton and Magruder replacements. However the reason why Wootton has not been touched for 20-25 years (Churchill got a full renovation and major addition back in 2001 and was about 5 years older so Wootton theoretically should been due in 2006) is because its location and site do not allow for a new school to be built on the fields while students attend the current facility and thus needed a holding school. I don’t know what this was never explicitly stated vs constantly jerking the community along like Charlie Brown and the football. Wootton will never be renovated without a holding school period end of story. It’s also very different than Churchill which has a renovation while students were in side, in Churchills case a big addition was done first which allowed several huge sections of the school to be redone after the addition opened. This isn’t really practical at Wootton as there’s no suitable land to add a massive 600-800 seat addition. The site is too small and has problems.

Not only that but then you add the budget woes, how can you in good faith spend money to rebuild a high school when enrollment is declining and there is no need for Wootton and when one was constructed only a few miles away in Crown (I agree ill advised). There is no need for Woottons seats there will still be 3-4 thousand seats open at the high school level without it once Crown Woodward Northwood and Damascus are done (assuming Magruder gets redone too). Unfortunately with just three high schools over 40 years old the most logical one to close is the one pretty much next to Crown.

All the money could be better spent on renovating/replacing two middle schools or 5-6 elementary schools.

This county needs to rethink things in a big way and that’s inevitably going to mean closing more schools and reasoning students vs pooling money into a million schools that quite frankly are not needed.

Why would Wootton need addition? They have 2200 seats already. Not like other schools only have 1500 which need expansion

My comment on addition at Wootton was in regards to doing a renovation on site. The way the current school is sited and the rest of the land on which it sits, it doesn’t permit for a very large addition which would allow them to work on renovating the rest of the school a section at a time and eventually demolishing another area of the school to use as a field. I think when Churchill was renovated in like 1998-2001 they started with a very large addition which held a lot of students. This let them demolish another existing area of the school (became parking lot to replace the parking that existed where the addition was built) and then they worked on wings of the school renovating one section at a time while students used the new addition and other non-renovated areas of the school, then the newly renovated area opened and a non-renovated area closed to be renovated. What I’m saying is that process isn’t possible at Wootton which means a holding school is required in order to renovate the school. This is why it’s never been done.

Then the question becomes does it make sense to spend $400M on a high school nearby a brand new high school when the county wide excess seats will be more than 5000 at the HS level and there are so many other needs in the county. Closing Damascus isn’t an option given its location, Magruder would be a challenge too. So because of the poor decision to build Crown which was made at a time when it seemed it would be needed, unfortunately logically it makes the most sense to close Wootton and add some money to fix some key areas and use it as a holding school.

There are so many secondary schools that need renovations in the coming decade and having a holding school will be essential.

If we had unlimited money and were in a good economic situation sure rebuild Wootton but the reality is we are not.

Wootton had a large addition back in 2000 too. It’s just the original building part which never got any renovation.
You can’t treat Wootton differently from other schools. Damascus Magruder can have a rebuild but Wootton cannot because of economic situation. Why not moving the other two?

Magruder has some far more serious issues as do other schools.

Either way, I don’t think option H is viable for the such strong opposition from Wootton cluster. MCPS will most likely not push against the whole community and force them to relocate with a boundary process which doesn’t have even sound legal.
Let’s focus on other options.

Of course it is. They demanded a new building and are getting it.

They demanded a new building at the current Wootton site. You conveniently left out that part. As another poster mentioned, Wootton is important to the surrounding community. You might not think 3 miles makes a difference, but it does to parents whose kids walk to and from school. Bussing isn't the answer unless MCPS can guarantee busses for ALL after school and weekend activities to replace walk ability, which it can't.

But right now many current Wootton students are bussed from Dufief, Stone Mill and Travilah areas. I dont understand the difference it would just mean current walkers are no longer walkers.

So you want to go from 50% walkers to 0% walkers. Got it.

Are you dense? It will not be 0% walkers. It will be a new set of walkers - too bad if it isn't your neighborhood that gets to walk. That is the reality in other parts of the county.

Not dense at all. There aren't any walkers to Crown - because Crown doesn't yet exist. But you don't care about the kids who can currently walk to Wootton. I'll bet you don't even have kids that go there, but wish they did.

Why should the system prefer one neighborhood (the one right next to Wootton) with regard to walking over another (the one right next to Crown)?

So you don't care what a core neighborhood to Wootton thinks - one that has been there since Wootton opened its doors in 1970?

Incorrect -- I care about them the same amount that I care about those near Crown. Do you?

When/If Crown opens the neighborhoods right there will be going anyway-regardless of what happens to Wootton. If they aren’t sent there as soon as it opens-they will be eventually so it doesn’t really matter.

The choice appears to come down to making Wootton a holding school or making Crown a holding school. 10 years or so down the line, if there is a rebound in student population, they may convert whichever one is then a holding school into a proper HS. If that is the current Wootton facility, it would need a much more substantial/complete renovation than whatever they would do to make it ready to hold Damascus/Magruder/whichever projects come after, if not its own complete rebuild.

Of course, whichever other secondary facilities then are in line for capital improvement would need a different holding facility if the work could not be completed while students are on-site, and that would see similar overall consideration to that which we see, here, hopefully much farther in advance and with much greater attention to meaningful community engagement.

So, again, with that likely the choice, do you care about the neighborhoods around Wootton the same amount as you care about the neighborhoods around Crown?

Of course they don’t care about Wootton neighborhoods when they’re Wootton haters.

I understand your confusion, as one usually might ask, "Do you care about the neighborhoods around Crown the same as you care about the neighborhoods around Wootton?" when trying to encourage equal consideration from those seeming to favor the latter, while I, intentionally, framed it in reverse to parallel the earlier query that had gone unanswered. That was posed to someone who seemed not to be giving Crown-area residents equal consideration to Wootton-area residents when defending Wootton's walk zone in the discussion.

I guess if we want to maximize walk zone, the best is to make both schools open as permanent schools and not holding schools. If Wootton moves to crown, the walk zone is significantly smaller as crown is surrounded by major highways (basically only crown and Rio are possibly walkable). But Wootton has half of school as walk zone.

OK, assuming you are the same poster, clearly you feel uncomfortable answering the question. The answer should be that the decision-makers, here, should care exactly the same for each...even if those in one or other area naturally might care more about their own.

That said, walk zone isn't the only factor, even as it would tend to grade out evenly between those two options. Those not wanting Wootton to become the choice as a holding school, presuming one or other will, might pursue arguments along other lines.

I’m the not PP and don’t know what you are referring to. But just want to point out that walk zone will be much smaller if Wootton moves to crown.

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Anonymous wrote:Makes zero sense to fix up Wootton to be used as a regular HS AND have Crown when we have declining enrollment and a tight budget.

Exactly, and I get frustration, as Taylor said if the decision was made today to build Crown they would not have done so, that money could have gone towards Damascus Wootton and Magruder replacements. However the reason why Wootton has not been touched for 20-25 years (Churchill got a full renovation and major addition back in 2001 and was about 5 years older so Wootton theoretically should been due in 2006) is because its location and site do not allow for a new school to be built on the fields while students attend the current facility and thus needed a holding school. I don’t know what this was never explicitly stated vs constantly jerking the community along like Charlie Brown and the football. Wootton will never be renovated without a holding school period end of story. It’s also very different than Churchill which has a renovation while students were in side, in Churchills case a big addition was done first which allowed several huge sections of the school to be redone after the addition opened. This isn’t really practical at Wootton as there’s no suitable land to add a massive 600-800 seat addition. The site is too small and has problems.

Not only that but then you add the budget woes, how can you in good faith spend money to rebuild a high school when enrollment is declining and there is no need for Wootton and when one was constructed only a few miles away in Crown (I agree ill advised). There is no need for Woottons seats there will still be 3-4 thousand seats open at the high school level without it once Crown Woodward Northwood and Damascus are done (assuming Magruder gets redone too). Unfortunately with just three high schools over 40 years old the most logical one to close is the one pretty much next to Crown.

All the money could be better spent on renovating/replacing two middle schools or 5-6 elementary schools.

This county needs to rethink things in a big way and that’s inevitably going to mean closing more schools and reasoning students vs pooling money into a million schools that quite frankly are not needed.

Why would Wootton need addition? They have 2200 seats already. Not like other schools only have 1500 which need expansion

My comment on addition at Wootton was in regards to doing a renovation on site. The way the current school is sited and the rest of the land on which it sits, it doesn’t permit for a very large addition which would allow them to work on renovating the rest of the school a section at a time and eventually demolishing another area of the school to use as a field. I think when Churchill was renovated in like 1998-2001 they started with a very large addition which held a lot of students. This let them demolish another existing area of the school (became parking lot to replace the parking that existed where the addition was built) and then they worked on wings of the school renovating one section at a time while students used the new addition and other non-renovated areas of the school, then the newly renovated area opened and a non-renovated area closed to be renovated. What I’m saying is that process isn’t possible at Wootton which means a holding school is required in order to renovate the school. This is why it’s never been done.

Then the question becomes does it make sense to spend $400M on a high school nearby a brand new high school when the county wide excess seats will be more than 5000 at the HS level and there are so many other needs in the county. Closing Damascus isn’t an option given its location, Magruder would be a challenge too. So because of the poor decision to build Crown which was made at a time when it seemed it would be needed, unfortunately logically it makes the most sense to close Wootton and add some money to fix some key areas and use it as a holding school.

There are so many secondary schools that need renovations in the coming decade and having a holding school will be essential.

If we had unlimited money and were in a good economic situation sure rebuild Wootton but the reality is we are not.

Wootton had a large addition back in 2000 too. It’s just the original building part which never got any renovation.
You can’t treat Wootton differently from other schools. Damascus Magruder can have a rebuild but Wootton cannot because of economic situation. Why not moving the other two?

Magruder has some far more serious issues as do other schools.

Either way, I don’t think option H is viable for the such strong opposition from Wootton cluster. MCPS will most likely not push against the whole community and force them to relocate with a boundary process which doesn’t have even sound legal.
Let’s focus on other options.

Of course it is. They demanded a new building and are getting it.

They demanded a new building at the current Wootton site. You conveniently left out that part. As another poster mentioned, Wootton is important to the surrounding community. You might not think 3 miles makes a difference, but it does to parents whose kids walk to and from school. Bussing isn't the answer unless MCPS can guarantee busses for ALL after school and weekend activities to replace walk ability, which it can't.

But right now many current Wootton students are bussed from Dufief, Stone Mill and Travilah areas. I dont understand the difference it would just mean current walkers are no longer walkers.

So you want to go from 50% walkers to 0% walkers. Got it.

Are you dense? It will not be 0% walkers. It will be a new set of walkers - too bad if it isn't your neighborhood that gets to walk. That is the reality in other parts of the county.

Not dense at all. There aren't any walkers to Crown - because Crown doesn't yet exist. But you don't care about the kids who can currently walk to Wootton. I'll bet you don't even have kids that go there, but wish they did.

Why should the system prefer one neighborhood (the one right next to Wootton) with regard to walking over another (the one right next to Crown)?

So you don't care what a core neighborhood to Wootton thinks - one that has been there since Wootton opened its doors in 1970?

Incorrect -- I care about them the same amount that I care about those near Crown. Do you?

When/If Crown opens the neighborhoods right there will be going anyway-regardless of what happens to Wootton. If they aren’t sent there as soon as it opens-they will be eventually so it doesn’t really matter.

The choice appears to come down to making Wootton a holding school or making Crown a holding school. 10 years or so down the line, if there is a rebound in student population, they may convert whichever one is then a holding school into a proper HS. If that is the current Wootton facility, it would need a much more substantial/complete renovation than whatever they would do to make it ready to hold Damascus/Magruder/whichever projects come after, if not its own complete rebuild.

Of course, whichever other secondary facilities then are in line for capital improvement would need a different holding facility if the work could not be completed while students are on-site, and that would see similar overall consideration to that which we see, here, hopefully much farther in advance and with much greater attention to meaningful community engagement.

So, again, with that likely the choice, do you care about the neighborhoods around Wootton the same amount as you care about the neighborhoods around Crown?

Of course they don’t care about Wootton neighborhoods when they’re Wootton haters.

I understand your confusion, as one usually might ask, "Do you care about the neighborhoods around Crown the same as you care about the neighborhoods around Wootton?" when trying to encourage equal consideration from those seeming to favor the latter, while I, intentionally, framed it in reverse to parallel the earlier query that had gone unanswered. That was posed to someone who seemed not to be giving Crown-area residents equal consideration to Wootton-area residents when defending Wootton's walk zone in the discussion.

I guess if we want to maximize walk zone, the best is to make both schools open as permanent schools and not holding schools. If Wootton moves to crown, the walk zone is significantly smaller as crown is surrounded by major highways (basically only crown and Rio are possibly walkable). But Wootton has half of school as walk zone.

OK, assuming you are the same poster, clearly you feel uncomfortable answering the question. The answer should be that the decision-makers, here, should care exactly the same for each...even if those in one or other area naturally might care more about their own.

That said, walk zone isn't the only factor, even as it would tend to grade out evenly between those two options. Those not wanting Wootton to become the choice as a holding school, presuming one or other will, might pursue arguments along other lines.

I’m the not PP and don’t know what you are referring to. But just want to point out that walk zone will be much smaller if Wootton moves to crown.

But MCPS doesn't care about this, nor does it care that Wootton has been an anchor for its surrounding neighborhoods for 55 years.

I'm curious why many (or possibly only 1 troll) previous poster(s) seem to be pushing Option H when they likely don't live in the walk zone for Wootton. One might even think that they're putting the needs of their kids (assuming they have any) or the value of their house (more likely) above those who live nearby and currently/will have kids at Wootton.

Completely destroying Wootton in favor of a relocated school building that Wootton parents didn't ask for is stupid. Wootton parents asked for - and were slated twice on the CIP - a renovated building at the current Wootton site. We're willing to compromise for a remediated building to fix current issues and patiently wait another 10 years for our third (!) chance on the CIP.

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Anonymous wrote:Makes zero sense to fix up Wootton to be used as a regular HS AND have Crown when we have declining enrollment and a tight budget.

Exactly, and I get frustration, as Taylor said if the decision was made today to build Crown they would not have done so, that money could have gone towards Damascus Wootton and Magruder replacements. However the reason why Wootton has not been touched for 20-25 years (Churchill got a full renovation and major addition back in 2001 and was about 5 years older so Wootton theoretically should been due in 2006) is because its location and site do not allow for a new school to be built on the fields while students attend the current facility and thus needed a holding school. I don’t know what this was never explicitly stated vs constantly jerking the community along like Charlie Brown and the football. Wootton will never be renovated without a holding school period end of story. It’s also very different than Churchill which has a renovation while students were in side, in Churchills case a big addition was done first which allowed several huge sections of the school to be redone after the addition opened. This isn’t really practical at Wootton as there’s no suitable land to add a massive 600-800 seat addition. The site is too small and has problems.

Not only that but then you add the budget woes, how can you in good faith spend money to rebuild a high school when enrollment is declining and there is no need for Wootton and when one was constructed only a few miles away in Crown (I agree ill advised). There is no need for Woottons seats there will still be 3-4 thousand seats open at the high school level without it once Crown Woodward Northwood and Damascus are done (assuming Magruder gets redone too). Unfortunately with just three high schools over 40 years old the most logical one to close is the one pretty much next to Crown.

All the money could be better spent on renovating/replacing two middle schools or 5-6 elementary schools.

This county needs to rethink things in a big way and that’s inevitably going to mean closing more schools and reasoning students vs pooling money into a million schools that quite frankly are not needed.

Why would Wootton need addition? They have 2200 seats already. Not like other schools only have 1500 which need expansion

My comment on addition at Wootton was in regards to doing a renovation on site. The way the current school is sited and the rest of the land on which it sits, it doesn’t permit for a very large addition which would allow them to work on renovating the rest of the school a section at a time and eventually demolishing another area of the school to use as a field. I think when Churchill was renovated in like 1998-2001 they started with a very large addition which held a lot of students. This let them demolish another existing area of the school (became parking lot to replace the parking that existed where the addition was built) and then they worked on wings of the school renovating one section at a time while students used the new addition and other non-renovated areas of the school, then the newly renovated area opened and a non-renovated area closed to be renovated. What I’m saying is that process isn’t possible at Wootton which means a holding school is required in order to renovate the school. This is why it’s never been done.

Then the question becomes does it make sense to spend $400M on a high school nearby a brand new high school when the county wide excess seats will be more than 5000 at the HS level and there are so many other needs in the county. Closing Damascus isn’t an option given its location, Magruder would be a challenge too. So because of the poor decision to build Crown which was made at a time when it seemed it would be needed, unfortunately logically it makes the most sense to close Wootton and add some money to fix some key areas and use it as a holding school.

There are so many secondary schools that need renovations in the coming decade and having a holding school will be essential.

If we had unlimited money and were in a good economic situation sure rebuild Wootton but the reality is we are not.

Wootton had a large addition back in 2000 too. It’s just the original building part which never got any renovation.
You can’t treat Wootton differently from other schools. Damascus Magruder can have a rebuild but Wootton cannot because of economic situation. Why not moving the other two?

Magruder has some far more serious issues as do other schools.

Either way, I don’t think option H is viable for the such strong opposition from Wootton cluster. MCPS will most likely not push against the whole community and force them to relocate with a boundary process which doesn’t have even sound legal.
Let’s focus on other options.

Of course it is. They demanded a new building and are getting it.

They demanded a new building at the current Wootton site. You conveniently left out that part. As another poster mentioned, Wootton is important to the surrounding community. You might not think 3 miles makes a difference, but it does to parents whose kids walk to and from school. Bussing isn't the answer unless MCPS can guarantee busses for ALL after school and weekend activities to replace walk ability, which it can't.

But right now many current Wootton students are bussed from Dufief, Stone Mill and Travilah areas. I dont understand the difference it would just mean current walkers are no longer walkers.

So you want to go from 50% walkers to 0% walkers. Got it.

Are you dense? It will not be 0% walkers. It will be a new set of walkers - too bad if it isn't your neighborhood that gets to walk. That is the reality in other parts of the county.

Not dense at all. There aren't any walkers to Crown - because Crown doesn't yet exist. But you don't care about the kids who can currently walk to Wootton. I'll bet you don't even have kids that go there, but wish they did.

Why should the system prefer one neighborhood (the one right next to Wootton) with regard to walking over another (the one right next to Crown)?

So you don't care what a core neighborhood to Wootton thinks - one that has been there since Wootton opened its doors in 1970?

Incorrect -- I care about them the same amount that I care about those near Crown. Do you?

When/If Crown opens the neighborhoods right there will be going anyway-regardless of what happens to Wootton. If they aren’t sent there as soon as it opens-they will be eventually so it doesn’t really matter.

The choice appears to come down to making Wootton a holding school or making Crown a holding school. 10 years or so down the line, if there is a rebound in student population, they may convert whichever one is then a holding school into a proper HS. If that is the current Wootton facility, it would need a much more substantial/complete renovation than whatever they would do to make it ready to hold Damascus/Magruder/whichever projects come after, if not its own complete rebuild.

Of course, whichever other secondary facilities then are in line for capital improvement would need a different holding facility if the work could not be completed while students are on-site, and that would see similar overall consideration to that which we see, here, hopefully much farther in advance and with much greater attention to meaningful community engagement.

So, again, with that likely the choice, do you care about the neighborhoods around Wootton the same amount as you care about the neighborhoods around Crown?

Of course they don’t care about Wootton neighborhoods when they’re Wootton haters.

I understand your confusion, as one usually might ask, "Do you care about the neighborhoods around Crown the same as you care about the neighborhoods around Wootton?" when trying to encourage equal consideration from those seeming to favor the latter, while I, intentionally, framed it in reverse to parallel the earlier query that had gone unanswered. That was posed to someone who seemed not to be giving Crown-area residents equal consideration to Wootton-area residents when defending Wootton's walk zone in the discussion.

I guess if we want to maximize walk zone, the best is to make both schools open as permanent schools and not holding schools. If Wootton moves to crown, the walk zone is significantly smaller as crown is surrounded by major highways (basically only crown and Rio are possibly walkable). But Wootton has half of school as walk zone.

OK, assuming you are the same poster, clearly you feel uncomfortable answering the question. The answer should be that the decision-makers, here, should care exactly the same for each...even if those in one or other area naturally might care more about their own.

That said, walk zone isn't the only factor, even as it would tend to grade out evenly between those two options. Those not wanting Wootton to become the choice as a holding school, presuming one or other will, might pursue arguments along other lines.

I’m the not PP and don’t know what you are referring to. But just want to point out that walk zone will be much smaller if Wootton moves to crown.

But MCPS doesn't care about this, nor does it care that Wootton has been an anchor for its surrounding neighborhoods for 55 years.

I'm curious why many (or possibly only 1 troll) previous poster(s) seem to be pushing Option H when they likely don't live in the walk zone for Wootton. One might even think that they're putting the needs of their kids (assuming they have any) or the value of their house (more likely) above those who live nearby and currently/will have kids at Wootton.

Completely destroying Wootton in favor of a relocated school building that Wootton parents didn't ask for is stupid. Wootton parents asked for - and were slated twice on the CIP - a renovated building at the current Wootton site. We're willing to compromise for a remediated building to fix current issues and patiently wait another 10 years for our third (!) chance on the CIP.

Many people here are probably from crown who will gain substantially if Wootton moves to crown.

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Anonymous wrote:Makes zero sense to fix up Wootton to be used as a regular HS AND have Crown when we have declining enrollment and a tight budget.

Exactly, and I get frustration, as Taylor said if the decision was made today to build Crown they would not have done so, that money could have gone towards Damascus Wootton and Magruder replacements. However the reason why Wootton has not been touched for 20-25 years (Churchill got a full renovation and major addition back in 2001 and was about 5 years older so Wootton theoretically should been due in 2006) is because its location and site do not allow for a new school to be built on the fields while students attend the current facility and thus needed a holding school. I don’t know what this was never explicitly stated vs constantly jerking the community along like Charlie Brown and the football. Wootton will never be renovated without a holding school period end of story. It’s also very different than Churchill which has a renovation while students were in side, in Churchills case a big addition was done first which allowed several huge sections of the school to be redone after the addition opened. This isn’t really practical at Wootton as there’s no suitable land to add a massive 600-800 seat addition. The site is too small and has problems.

Not only that but then you add the budget woes, how can you in good faith spend money to rebuild a high school when enrollment is declining and there is no need for Wootton and when one was constructed only a few miles away in Crown (I agree ill advised). There is no need for Woottons seats there will still be 3-4 thousand seats open at the high school level without it once Crown Woodward Northwood and Damascus are done (assuming Magruder gets redone too). Unfortunately with just three high schools over 40 years old the most logical one to close is the one pretty much next to Crown.

All the money could be better spent on renovating/replacing two middle schools or 5-6 elementary schools.

This county needs to rethink things in a big way and that’s inevitably going to mean closing more schools and reasoning students vs pooling money into a million schools that quite frankly are not needed.

Why would Wootton need addition? They have 2200 seats already. Not like other schools only have 1500 which need expansion

My comment on addition at Wootton was in regards to doing a renovation on site. The way the current school is sited and the rest of the land on which it sits, it doesn’t permit for a very large addition which would allow them to work on renovating the rest of the school a section at a time and eventually demolishing another area of the school to use as a field. I think when Churchill was renovated in like 1998-2001 they started with a very large addition which held a lot of students. This let them demolish another existing area of the school (became parking lot to replace the parking that existed where the addition was built) and then they worked on wings of the school renovating one section at a time while students used the new addition and other non-renovated areas of the school, then the newly renovated area opened and a non-renovated area closed to be renovated. What I’m saying is that process isn’t possible at Wootton which means a holding school is required in order to renovate the school. This is why it’s never been done.

Then the question becomes does it make sense to spend $400M on a high school nearby a brand new high school when the county wide excess seats will be more than 5000 at the HS level and there are so many other needs in the county. Closing Damascus isn’t an option given its location, Magruder would be a challenge too. So because of the poor decision to build Crown which was made at a time when it seemed it would be needed, unfortunately logically it makes the most sense to close Wootton and add some money to fix some key areas and use it as a holding school.

There are so many secondary schools that need renovations in the coming decade and having a holding school will be essential.

If we had unlimited money and were in a good economic situation sure rebuild Wootton but the reality is we are not.

Wootton had a large addition back in 2000 too. It’s just the original building part which never got any renovation.
You can’t treat Wootton differently from other schools. Damascus Magruder can have a rebuild but Wootton cannot because of economic situation. Why not moving the other two?

Magruder has some far more serious issues as do other schools.

Either way, I don’t think option H is viable for the such strong opposition from Wootton cluster. MCPS will most likely not push against the whole community and force them to relocate with a boundary process which doesn’t have even sound legal.
Let’s focus on other options.

Of course it is. They demanded a new building and are getting it.

They demanded a new building at the current Wootton site. You conveniently left out that part. As another poster mentioned, Wootton is important to the surrounding community. You might not think 3 miles makes a difference, but it does to parents whose kids walk to and from school. Bussing isn't the answer unless MCPS can guarantee busses for ALL after school and weekend activities to replace walk ability, which it can't.

But right now many current Wootton students are bussed from Dufief, Stone Mill and Travilah areas. I dont understand the difference it would just mean current walkers are no longer walkers.

So you want to go from 50% walkers to 0% walkers. Got it.

Are you dense? It will not be 0% walkers. It will be a new set of walkers - too bad if it isn't your neighborhood that gets to walk. That is the reality in other parts of the county.

Not dense at all. There aren't any walkers to Crown - because Crown doesn't yet exist. But you don't care about the kids who can currently walk to Wootton. I'll bet you don't even have kids that go there, but wish they did.

Why should the system prefer one neighborhood (the one right next to Wootton) with regard to walking over another (the one right next to Crown)?

So you don't care what a core neighborhood to Wootton thinks - one that has been there since Wootton opened its doors in 1970?

Incorrect -- I care about them the same amount that I care about those near Crown. Do you?

When/If Crown opens the neighborhoods right there will be going anyway-regardless of what happens to Wootton. If they aren’t sent there as soon as it opens-they will be eventually so it doesn’t really matter.

The choice appears to come down to making Wootton a holding school or making Crown a holding school. 10 years or so down the line, if there is a rebound in student population, they may convert whichever one is then a holding school into a proper HS. If that is the current Wootton facility, it would need a much more substantial/complete renovation than whatever they would do to make it ready to hold Damascus/Magruder/whichever projects come after, if not its own complete rebuild.

Of course, whichever other secondary facilities then are in line for capital improvement would need a different holding facility if the work could not be completed while students are on-site, and that would see similar overall consideration to that which we see, here, hopefully much farther in advance and with much greater attention to meaningful community engagement.

So, again, with that likely the choice, do you care about the neighborhoods around Wootton the same amount as you care about the neighborhoods around Crown?

Of course they don’t care about Wootton neighborhoods when they’re Wootton haters.

I understand your confusion, as one usually might ask, "Do you care about the neighborhoods around Crown the same as you care about the neighborhoods around Wootton?" when trying to encourage equal consideration from those seeming to favor the latter, while I, intentionally, framed it in reverse to parallel the earlier query that had gone unanswered. That was posed to someone who seemed not to be giving Crown-area residents equal consideration to Wootton-area residents when defending Wootton's walk zone in the discussion.

I guess if we want to maximize walk zone, the best is to make both schools open as permanent schools and not holding schools. If Wootton moves to crown, the walk zone is significantly smaller as crown is surrounded by major highways (basically only crown and Rio are possibly walkable). But Wootton has half of school as walk zone.

OK, assuming you are the same poster, clearly you feel uncomfortable answering the question. The answer should be that the decision-makers, here, should care exactly the same for each...even if those in one or other area naturally might care more about their own.

That said, walk zone isn't the only factor, even as it would tend to grade out evenly between those two options. Those not wanting Wootton to become the choice as a holding school, presuming one or other will, might pursue arguments along other lines.

I’m the not PP and don’t know what you are referring to. But just want to point out that walk zone will be much smaller if Wootton moves to crown.

But MCPS doesn't care about this, nor does it care that Wootton has been an anchor for its surrounding neighborhoods for 55 years.

I'm curious why many (or possibly only 1 troll) previous poster(s) seem to be pushing Option H when they likely don't live in the walk zone for Wootton. One might even think that they're putting the needs of their kids (assuming they have any) or the value of their house (more likely) above those who live nearby and currently/will have kids at Wootton.

Completely destroying Wootton in favor of a relocated school building that Wootton parents didn't ask for is stupid. Wootton parents asked for - and were slated twice on the CIP - a renovated building at the current Wootton site. We're willing to compromise for a remediated building to fix current issues and patiently wait another 10 years for our third (!) chance on the CIP.

Many people here are probably from crown who will gain substantially if Wootton moves to crown.

Bingo! We have a winner! But don't forget about the developers who bought land around Crown and are developing single and multi-family housing who were probably promised this move. There's millions in new tax revenues from residential and retail spending in the Crown area if the Wootton move goes through (and MCPS renames Crown to Wootton in order to fool people into thinking it was just a lift and shift - when it's adding 500+ new kids from Gaithersburg)

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Anonymous wrote:Makes zero sense to fix up Wootton to be used as a regular HS AND have Crown when we have declining enrollment and a tight budget.

Exactly, and I get frustration, as Taylor said if the decision was made today to build Crown they would not have done so, that money could have gone towards Damascus Wootton and Magruder replacements. However the reason why Wootton has not been touched for 20-25 years (Churchill got a full renovation and major addition back in 2001 and was about 5 years older so Wootton theoretically should been due in 2006) is because its location and site do not allow for a new school to be built on the fields while students attend the current facility and thus needed a holding school. I don’t know what this was never explicitly stated vs constantly jerking the community along like Charlie Brown and the football. Wootton will never be renovated without a holding school period end of story. It’s also very different than Churchill which has a renovation while students were in side, in Churchills case a big addition was done first which allowed several huge sections of the school to be redone after the addition opened. This isn’t really practical at Wootton as there’s no suitable land to add a massive 600-800 seat addition. The site is too small and has problems.

Not only that but then you add the budget woes, how can you in good faith spend money to rebuild a high school when enrollment is declining and there is no need for Wootton and when one was constructed only a few miles away in Crown (I agree ill advised). There is no need for Woottons seats there will still be 3-4 thousand seats open at the high school level without it once Crown Woodward Northwood and Damascus are done (assuming Magruder gets redone too). Unfortunately with just three high schools over 40 years old the most logical one to close is the one pretty much next to Crown.

All the money could be better spent on renovating/replacing two middle schools or 5-6 elementary schools.

This county needs to rethink things in a big way and that’s inevitably going to mean closing more schools and reasoning students vs pooling money into a million schools that quite frankly are not needed.

Why would Wootton need addition? They have 2200 seats already. Not like other schools only have 1500 which need expansion

My comment on addition at Wootton was in regards to doing a renovation on site. The way the current school is sited and the rest of the land on which it sits, it doesn’t permit for a very large addition which would allow them to work on renovating the rest of the school a section at a time and eventually demolishing another area of the school to use as a field. I think when Churchill was renovated in like 1998-2001 they started with a very large addition which held a lot of students. This let them demolish another existing area of the school (became parking lot to replace the parking that existed where the addition was built) and then they worked on wings of the school renovating one section at a time while students used the new addition and other non-renovated areas of the school, then the newly renovated area opened and a non-renovated area closed to be renovated. What I’m saying is that process isn’t possible at Wootton which means a holding school is required in order to renovate the school. This is why it’s never been done.

Then the question becomes does it make sense to spend $400M on a high school nearby a brand new high school when the county wide excess seats will be more than 5000 at the HS level and there are so many other needs in the county. Closing Damascus isn’t an option given its location, Magruder would be a challenge too. So because of the poor decision to build Crown which was made at a time when it seemed it would be needed, unfortunately logically it makes the most sense to close Wootton and add some money to fix some key areas and use it as a holding school.

There are so many secondary schools that need renovations in the coming decade and having a holding school will be essential.

If we had unlimited money and were in a good economic situation sure rebuild Wootton but the reality is we are not.

Wootton had a large addition back in 2000 too. It’s just the original building part which never got any renovation.
You can’t treat Wootton differently from other schools. Damascus Magruder can have a rebuild but Wootton cannot because of economic situation. Why not moving the other two?

Magruder has some far more serious issues as do other schools.

Either way, I don’t think option H is viable for the such strong opposition from Wootton cluster. MCPS will most likely not push against the whole community and force them to relocate with a boundary process which doesn’t have even sound legal.
Let’s focus on other options.

Of course it is. They demanded a new building and are getting it.

They demanded a new building at the current Wootton site. You conveniently left out that part. As another poster mentioned, Wootton is important to the surrounding community. You might not think 3 miles makes a difference, but it does to parents whose kids walk to and from school. Bussing isn't the answer unless MCPS can guarantee busses for ALL after school and weekend activities to replace walk ability, which it can't.

But right now many current Wootton students are bussed from Dufief, Stone Mill and Travilah areas. I dont understand the difference it would just mean current walkers are no longer walkers.

So you want to go from 50% walkers to 0% walkers. Got it.

Are you dense? It will not be 0% walkers. It will be a new set of walkers - too bad if it isn't your neighborhood that gets to walk. That is the reality in other parts of the county.

Not dense at all. There aren't any walkers to Crown - because Crown doesn't yet exist. But you don't care about the kids who can currently walk to Wootton. I'll bet you don't even have kids that go there, but wish they did.

Why should the system prefer one neighborhood (the one right next to Wootton) with regard to walking over another (the one right next to Crown)?

So you don't care what a core neighborhood to Wootton thinks - one that has been there since Wootton opened its doors in 1970?

Incorrect -- I care about them the same amount that I care about those near Crown. Do you?

When/If Crown opens the neighborhoods right there will be going anyway-regardless of what happens to Wootton. If they aren’t sent there as soon as it opens-they will be eventually so it doesn’t really matter.

The choice appears to come down to making Wootton a holding school or making Crown a holding school. 10 years or so down the line, if there is a rebound in student population, they may convert whichever one is then a holding school into a proper HS. If that is the current Wootton facility, it would need a much more substantial/complete renovation than whatever they would do to make it ready to hold Damascus/Magruder/whichever projects come after, if not its own complete rebuild.

Of course, whichever other secondary facilities then are in line for capital improvement would need a different holding facility if the work could not be completed while students are on-site, and that would see similar overall consideration to that which we see, here, hopefully much farther in advance and with much greater attention to meaningful community engagement.

So, again, with that likely the choice, do you care about the neighborhoods around Wootton the same amount as you care about the neighborhoods around Crown?

Of course they don’t care about Wootton neighborhoods when they’re Wootton haters.

I understand your confusion, as one usually might ask, "Do you care about the neighborhoods around Crown the same as you care about the neighborhoods around Wootton?" when trying to encourage equal consideration from those seeming to favor the latter, while I, intentionally, framed it in reverse to parallel the earlier query that had gone unanswered. That was posed to someone who seemed not to be giving Crown-area residents equal consideration to Wootton-area residents when defending Wootton's walk zone in the discussion.

I guess if we want to maximize walk zone, the best is to make both schools open as permanent schools and not holding schools. If Wootton moves to crown, the walk zone is significantly smaller as crown is surrounded by major highways (basically only crown and Rio are possibly walkable). But Wootton has half of school as walk zone.

OK, assuming you are the same poster, clearly you feel uncomfortable answering the question. The answer should be that the decision-makers, here, should care exactly the same for each...even if those in one or other area naturally might care more about their own.

That said, walk zone isn't the only factor, even as it would tend to grade out evenly between those two options. Those not wanting Wootton to become the choice as a holding school, presuming one or other will, might pursue arguments along other lines.

I’m the not PP and don’t know what you are referring to. But just want to point out that walk zone will be much smaller if Wootton moves to crown.

Good enough, but it stands that there shouldn't be any more or any less care for one set of MoCo neighborhoods vs. another.

A smaller walk zone, as in geographically constrained (e.g., due to major roadways)? If that is what is meant, the more relevant test, again given the assumption that the choice to have both open as their own schools is not on the table, would be whether the one walk zone would encompass meaningfully more students than the other. Does the denser development in the Crown area offset the geographic constraint?

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Anonymous wrote:Makes zero sense to fix up Wootton to be used as a regular HS AND have Crown when we have declining enrollment and a tight budget.

Exactly, and I get frustration, as Taylor said if the decision was made today to build Crown they would not have done so, that money could have gone towards Damascus Wootton and Magruder replacements. However the reason why Wootton has not been touched for 20-25 years (Churchill got a full renovation and major addition back in 2001 and was about 5 years older so Wootton theoretically should been due in 2006) is because its location and site do not allow for a new school to be built on the fields while students attend the current facility and thus needed a holding school. I don’t know what this was never explicitly stated vs constantly jerking the community along like Charlie Brown and the football. Wootton will never be renovated without a holding school period end of story. It’s also very different than Churchill which has a renovation while students were in side, in Churchills case a big addition was done first which allowed several huge sections of the school to be redone after the addition opened. This isn’t really practical at Wootton as there’s no suitable land to add a massive 600-800 seat addition. The site is too small and has problems.

Not only that but then you add the budget woes, how can you in good faith spend money to rebuild a high school when enrollment is declining and there is no need for Wootton and when one was constructed only a few miles away in Crown (I agree ill advised). There is no need for Woottons seats there will still be 3-4 thousand seats open at the high school level without it once Crown Woodward Northwood and Damascus are done (assuming Magruder gets redone too). Unfortunately with just three high schools over 40 years old the most logical one to close is the one pretty much next to Crown.

All the money could be better spent on renovating/replacing two middle schools or 5-6 elementary schools.

This county needs to rethink things in a big way and that’s inevitably going to mean closing more schools and reasoning students vs pooling money into a million schools that quite frankly are not needed.

Why would Wootton need addition? They have 2200 seats already. Not like other schools only have 1500 which need expansion

My comment on addition at Wootton was in regards to doing a renovation on site. The way the current school is sited and the rest of the land on which it sits, it doesn’t permit for a very large addition which would allow them to work on renovating the rest of the school a section at a time and eventually demolishing another area of the school to use as a field. I think when Churchill was renovated in like 1998-2001 they started with a very large addition which held a lot of students. This let them demolish another existing area of the school (became parking lot to replace the parking that existed where the addition was built) and then they worked on wings of the school renovating one section at a time while students used the new addition and other non-renovated areas of the school, then the newly renovated area opened and a non-renovated area closed to be renovated. What I’m saying is that process isn’t possible at Wootton which means a holding school is required in order to renovate the school. This is why it’s never been done.

Then the question becomes does it make sense to spend $400M on a high school nearby a brand new high school when the county wide excess seats will be more than 5000 at the HS level and there are so many other needs in the county. Closing Damascus isn’t an option given its location, Magruder would be a challenge too. So because of the poor decision to build Crown which was made at a time when it seemed it would be needed, unfortunately logically it makes the most sense to close Wootton and add some money to fix some key areas and use it as a holding school.

There are so many secondary schools that need renovations in the coming decade and having a holding school will be essential.

If we had unlimited money and were in a good economic situation sure rebuild Wootton but the reality is we are not.

Wootton had a large addition back in 2000 too. It’s just the original building part which never got any renovation.
You can’t treat Wootton differently from other schools. Damascus Magruder can have a rebuild but Wootton cannot because of economic situation. Why not moving the other two?

Magruder has some far more serious issues as do other schools.

Either way, I don’t think option H is viable for the such strong opposition from Wootton cluster. MCPS will most likely not push against the whole community and force them to relocate with a boundary process which doesn’t have even sound legal.
Let’s focus on other options.

Of course it is. They demanded a new building and are getting it.

They demanded a new building at the current Wootton site. You conveniently left out that part. As another poster mentioned, Wootton is important to the surrounding community. You might not think 3 miles makes a difference, but it does to parents whose kids walk to and from school. Bussing isn't the answer unless MCPS can guarantee busses for ALL after school and weekend activities to replace walk ability, which it can't.

But right now many current Wootton students are bussed from Dufief, Stone Mill and Travilah areas. I dont understand the difference it would just mean current walkers are no longer walkers.

So you want to go from 50% walkers to 0% walkers. Got it.

Are you dense? It will not be 0% walkers. It will be a new set of walkers - too bad if it isn't your neighborhood that gets to walk. That is the reality in other parts of the county.

Not dense at all. There aren't any walkers to Crown - because Crown doesn't yet exist. But you don't care about the kids who can currently walk to Wootton. I'll bet you don't even have kids that go there, but wish they did.

Why should the system prefer one neighborhood (the one right next to Wootton) with regard to walking over another (the one right next to Crown)?

So you don't care what a core neighborhood to Wootton thinks - one that has been there since Wootton opened its doors in 1970?

Incorrect -- I care about them the same amount that I care about those near Crown. Do you?

When/If Crown opens the neighborhoods right there will be going anyway-regardless of what happens to Wootton. If they aren’t sent there as soon as it opens-they will be eventually so it doesn’t really matter.

The choice appears to come down to making Wootton a holding school or making Crown a holding school. 10 years or so down the line, if there is a rebound in student population, they may convert whichever one is then a holding school into a proper HS. If that is the current Wootton facility, it would need a much more substantial/complete renovation than whatever they would do to make it ready to hold Damascus/Magruder/whichever projects come after, if not its own complete rebuild.

Of course, whichever other secondary facilities then are in line for capital improvement would need a different holding facility if the work could not be completed while students are on-site, and that would see similar overall consideration to that which we see, here, hopefully much farther in advance and with much greater attention to meaningful community engagement.

So, again, with that likely the choice, do you care about the neighborhoods around Wootton the same amount as you care about the neighborhoods around Crown?

Of course they don’t care about Wootton neighborhoods when they’re Wootton haters.

I understand your confusion, as one usually might ask, "Do you care about the neighborhoods around Crown the same as you care about the neighborhoods around Wootton?" when trying to encourage equal consideration from those seeming to favor the latter, while I, intentionally, framed it in reverse to parallel the earlier query that had gone unanswered. That was posed to someone who seemed not to be giving Crown-area residents equal consideration to Wootton-area residents when defending Wootton's walk zone in the discussion.

I guess if we want to maximize walk zone, the best is to make both schools open as permanent schools and not holding schools. If Wootton moves to crown, the walk zone is significantly smaller as crown is surrounded by major highways (basically only crown and Rio are possibly walkable). But Wootton has half of school as walk zone.

OK, assuming you are the same poster, clearly you feel uncomfortable answering the question. The answer should be that the decision-makers, here, should care exactly the same for each...even if those in one or other area naturally might care more about their own.

That said, walk zone isn't the only factor, even as it would tend to grade out evenly between those two options. Those not wanting Wootton to become the choice as a holding school, presuming one or other will, might pursue arguments along other lines.

I’m the not PP and don’t know what you are referring to. But just want to point out that walk zone will be much smaller if Wootton moves to crown.

Good enough, but it stands that there shouldn't be any more or any less care for one set of MoCo neighborhoods vs. another.

A smaller walk zone, as in geographically constrained (e.g., due to major roadways)? If that is what is meant, the more relevant test, again given the assumption that the choice to have both open as their own schools is not on the table, would be whether the one walk zone would encompass meaningfully more students than the other. Does the denser development in the Crown area offset the geographic constraint?

If there is denser development around Crown, then keep both schools open and move the Wootton boundary to encompass Horizon Hill (lessening overcrowding at RM) and to pull kids from Churchill (lessening overcrowding there). This will allow Crown to absorb more kids as denser development proceeds around it. Otherwise, we're just going to end up with an overcrowded Crown in a few years.

[Anonymous]

If mcps is under enrolled, why do they need to open Crown HS as a permanent school? Some PP prefers the options of turning Crown HS as a holding school, which HS is on the CIP list in 2027 and needs to temporary move in Crown HS? I hear Damascus HS is the only one on the latest CIP list and they are mostly will be renovated/re-constructed on-site. It does not make sense to leave a new Crown HS as vacant for a few years when it is completed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If mcps is under enrolled, why do they need to open Crown HS as a permanent school? Some PP prefers the options of turning Crown HS as a holding school, which HS is on the CIP list in 2027 and needs to temporary move in Crown HS? I hear Damascus HS is the only one on the latest CIP list and they are mostly will be renovated/re-constructed on-site. It does not make sense to leave a new Crown HS as vacant for a few years when it is completed.

I agree. If you look at other educational systems. They don't really build holding schools.

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Anonymous wrote:Makes zero sense to fix up Wootton to be used as a regular HS AND have Crown when we have declining enrollment and a tight budget.

Exactly, and I get frustration, as Taylor said if the decision was made today to build Crown they would not have done so, that money could have gone towards Damascus Wootton and Magruder replacements. However the reason why Wootton has not been touched for 20-25 years (Churchill got a full renovation and major addition back in 2001 and was about 5 years older so Wootton theoretically should been due in 2006) is because its location and site do not allow for a new school to be built on the fields while students attend the current facility and thus needed a holding school. I don’t know what this was never explicitly stated vs constantly jerking the community along like Charlie Brown and the football. Wootton will never be renovated without a holding school period end of story. It’s also very different than Churchill which has a renovation while students were in side, in Churchills case a big addition was done first which allowed several huge sections of the school to be redone after the addition opened. This isn’t really practical at Wootton as there’s no suitable land to add a massive 600-800 seat addition. The site is too small and has problems.

Not only that but then you add the budget woes, how can you in good faith spend money to rebuild a high school when enrollment is declining and there is no need for Wootton and when one was constructed only a few miles away in Crown (I agree ill advised). There is no need for Woottons seats there will still be 3-4 thousand seats open at the high school level without it once Crown Woodward Northwood and Damascus are done (assuming Magruder gets redone too). Unfortunately with just three high schools over 40 years old the most logical one to close is the one pretty much next to Crown.

All the money could be better spent on renovating/replacing two middle schools or 5-6 elementary schools.

This county needs to rethink things in a big way and that’s inevitably going to mean closing more schools and reasoning students vs pooling money into a million schools that quite frankly are not needed.

Why would Wootton need addition? They have 2200 seats already. Not like other schools only have 1500 which need expansion

My comment on addition at Wootton was in regards to doing a renovation on site. The way the current school is sited and the rest of the land on which it sits, it doesn’t permit for a very large addition which would allow them to work on renovating the rest of the school a section at a time and eventually demolishing another area of the school to use as a field. I think when Churchill was renovated in like 1998-2001 they started with a very large addition which held a lot of students. This let them demolish another existing area of the school (became parking lot to replace the parking that existed where the addition was built) and then they worked on wings of the school renovating one section at a time while students used the new addition and other non-renovated areas of the school, then the newly renovated area opened and a non-renovated area closed to be renovated. What I’m saying is that process isn’t possible at Wootton which means a holding school is required in order to renovate the school. This is why it’s never been done.

Then the question becomes does it make sense to spend $400M on a high school nearby a brand new high school when the county wide excess seats will be more than 5000 at the HS level and there are so many other needs in the county. Closing Damascus isn’t an option given its location, Magruder would be a challenge too. So because of the poor decision to build Crown which was made at a time when it seemed it would be needed, unfortunately logically it makes the most sense to close Wootton and add some money to fix some key areas and use it as a holding school.

There are so many secondary schools that need renovations in the coming decade and having a holding school will be essential.

If we had unlimited money and were in a good economic situation sure rebuild Wootton but the reality is we are not.

Wootton had a large addition back in 2000 too. It’s just the original building part which never got any renovation.
You can’t treat Wootton differently from other schools. Damascus Magruder can have a rebuild but Wootton cannot because of economic situation. Why not moving the other two?

Magruder has some far more serious issues as do other schools.

Either way, I don’t think option H is viable for the such strong opposition from Wootton cluster. MCPS will most likely not push against the whole community and force them to relocate with a boundary process which doesn’t have even sound legal.
Let’s focus on other options.

Of course it is. They demanded a new building and are getting it.

They demanded a new building at the current Wootton site. You conveniently left out that part. As another poster mentioned, Wootton is important to the surrounding community. You might not think 3 miles makes a difference, but it does to parents whose kids walk to and from school. Bussing isn't the answer unless MCPS can guarantee busses for ALL after school and weekend activities to replace walk ability, which it can't.

But right now many current Wootton students are bussed from Dufief, Stone Mill and Travilah areas. I dont understand the difference it would just mean current walkers are no longer walkers.

So you want to go from 50% walkers to 0% walkers. Got it.

Are you dense? It will not be 0% walkers. It will be a new set of walkers - too bad if it isn't your neighborhood that gets to walk. That is the reality in other parts of the county.

Not dense at all. There aren't any walkers to Crown - because Crown doesn't yet exist. But you don't care about the kids who can currently walk to Wootton. I'll bet you don't even have kids that go there, but wish they did.

Why should the system prefer one neighborhood (the one right next to Wootton) with regard to walking over another (the one right next to Crown)?

So you don't care what a core neighborhood to Wootton thinks - one that has been there since Wootton opened its doors in 1970?

Incorrect -- I care about them the same amount that I care about those near Crown. Do you?

When/If Crown opens the neighborhoods right there will be going anyway-regardless of what happens to Wootton. If they aren’t sent there as soon as it opens-they will be eventually so it doesn’t really matter.

The choice appears to come down to making Wootton a holding school or making Crown a holding school. 10 years or so down the line, if there is a rebound in student population, they may convert whichever one is then a holding school into a proper HS. If that is the current Wootton facility, it would need a much more substantial/complete renovation than whatever they would do to make it ready to hold Damascus/Magruder/whichever projects come after, if not its own complete rebuild.

Of course, whichever other secondary facilities then are in line for capital improvement would need a different holding facility if the work could not be completed while students are on-site, and that would see similar overall consideration to that which we see, here, hopefully much farther in advance and with much greater attention to meaningful community engagement.

So, again, with that likely the choice, do you care about the neighborhoods around Wootton the same amount as you care about the neighborhoods around Crown?

Of course they don’t care about Wootton neighborhoods when they’re Wootton haters.

I understand your confusion, as one usually might ask, "Do you care about the neighborhoods around Crown the same as you care about the neighborhoods around Wootton?" when trying to encourage equal consideration from those seeming to favor the latter, while I, intentionally, framed it in reverse to parallel the earlier query that had gone unanswered. That was posed to someone who seemed not to be giving Crown-area residents equal consideration to Wootton-area residents when defending Wootton's walk zone in the discussion.

I guess if we want to maximize walk zone, the best is to make both schools open as permanent schools and not holding schools. If Wootton moves to crown, the walk zone is significantly smaller as crown is surrounded by major highways (basically only crown and Rio are possibly walkable). But Wootton has half of school as walk zone.

OK, assuming you are the same poster, clearly you feel uncomfortable answering the question. The answer should be that the decision-makers, here, should care exactly the same for each...even if those in one or other area naturally might care more about their own.

That said, walk zone isn't the only factor, even as it would tend to grade out evenly between those two options. Those not wanting Wootton to become the choice as a holding school, presuming one or other will, might pursue arguments along other lines.

I’m the not PP and don’t know what you are referring to. But just want to point out that walk zone will be much smaller if Wootton moves to crown.

But MCPS doesn't care about this, nor does it care that Wootton has been an anchor for its surrounding neighborhoods for 55 years.

I'm curious why many (or possibly only 1 troll) previous poster(s) seem to be pushing Option H when they likely don't live in the walk zone for Wootton. One might even think that they're putting the needs of their kids (assuming they have any) or the value of their house (more likely) above those who live nearby and currently/will have kids at Wootton.

Completely destroying Wootton in favor of a relocated school building that Wootton parents didn't ask for is stupid. Wootton parents asked for - and were slated twice on the CIP - a renovated building at the current Wootton site. We're willing to compromise for a remediated building to fix current issues and patiently wait another 10 years for our third (!) chance on the CIP.

Many people here are probably from crown who will gain substantially if Wootton moves to crown.

No, I cannot imagine there are that many here who would gain. Either way Gaithersburg is getting a new school. Most of us, whoses schools aren't even on the radar, would LOVE that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If mcps is under enrolled, why do they need to open Crown HS as a permanent school? Some PP prefers the options of turning Crown HS as a holding school, which HS is on the CIP list in 2027 and needs to temporary move in Crown HS? I hear Damascus HS is the only one on the latest CIP list and they are mostly will be renovated/re-constructed on-site. It does not make sense to leave a new Crown HS as vacant for a few years when it is completed.

I agree. If you look at other educational systems. They don't really build holding schools.

You cannot compare MCPS to other educational systems. It would be imposssible to easily replace on site with classes and its very disruptive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If mcps is under enrolled, why do they need to open Crown HS as a permanent school? Some PP prefers the options of turning Crown HS as a holding school, which HS is on the CIP list in 2027 and needs to temporary move in Crown HS? I hear Damascus HS is the only one on the latest CIP list and they are mostly will be renovated/re-constructed on-site. It does not make sense to leave a new Crown HS as vacant for a few years when it is completed.

That would make the most sense. Why destroy Wootton and the neighborhoods around it to fill a school that shouldn't have been built in the first place? Seems like a recipe for making things worse, not better.