Stefanik Ivy Presidentd

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Should Jewish students not have a safe campus environment and not be able to walk across campus without threats?

No one has really demonstrated that Jewish students on Penn's campus don't have a safe environment. (There was antisemitic vandalism at Hillel, but the police dealt with that.) I'm a Jewish Penn alum, but I don't consider the presence of pro-Palestinian demonstrations on campus to be evidence that it's not safe for Jews, even if they're shouting slogans I disagree with vehemently. It may be uncomfortable, but no one promised that kids at college would always be comfortable.

DP. Have you read the lawsuit filed against U Penn? There are claims of repeated harassment (being called “dirty Jew” on the way to class), professors requiring attendance at the literary festival to get class credit, a professor clapping along to shouts that of “go back to Brooklyn…or f*ing Berlin where you came from,” walkways to class blocked by demonstrations.

I haven't read the lawsuit, but honestly, while all of that sounds unpleasant, none of it sounds unsafe.

Re write your statement with any other group. I will wait.

Again, you can take the position that it isn’t safe provided you are consistent. The issue is the consistency. If the PP is okay with the “dirty Jew” comment, would she be okay with “filthy crip” screamed at a disabled student in a wheelchair? Or the use of the n-word?

If she says yes, fine. But if not, then she’s just a hypocrite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Should Jewish students not have a safe campus environment and not be able to walk across campus without threats?

No one has really demonstrated that Jewish students on Penn's campus don't have a safe environment. (There was antisemitic vandalism at Hillel, but the police dealt with that.) I'm a Jewish Penn alum, but I don't consider the presence of pro-Palestinian demonstrations on campus to be evidence that it's not safe for Jews, even if they're shouting slogans I disagree with vehemently. It may be uncomfortable, but no one promised that kids at college would always be comfortable.

DP. Have you read the lawsuit filed against U Penn? There are claims of repeated harassment (being called “dirty Jew” on the way to class), professors requiring attendance at the literary festival to get class credit, a professor clapping along to shouts that of “go back to Brooklyn…or f*ing Berlin where you came from,” walkways to class blocked by demonstrations.

I haven't read the lawsuit, but honestly, while all of that sounds unpleasant, none of it sounds unsafe.

Re write your statement with any other group. I will wait.

Again, you can take the position that it isn’t safe provided you are consistent. The issue is the consistency. If the PP is okay with the “dirty Jew” comment, would she be okay with “filthy crip” screamed at a disabled student in a wheelchair? Or the use of the n-word?

If she says yes, fine. But if not, then she’s just a hypocrite.

I'm fine with both and have been referenced as a dirty and loudmouthed Jew. I'm also fine with the Palestinian flag draped over the menorah at Yale. It's sad but maybe people should grow a thicker skin. The current generation is way too fragile.

[Anonymous]

Who are those kids that are using slurs of ANY kind on college campuses?

We are led to believe that it is almost impossible to get into the Ivy League schools nowadays (according to the College forum you have to be at least “double-hooked”), the selection is so fierce and still some complete idiots are getting in? How?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who are those kids that are using slurs of ANY kind on college campuses?

We are led to believe that it is almost impossible to get into the Ivy League schools nowadays (according to the College forum you have to be at least “double-hooked”), the selection is so fierce and still some complete idiots are getting in? How?

The double-hooked kids will happily throw slurs. Why would you think otherwise?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who are those kids that are using slurs of ANY kind on college campuses?

We are led to believe that it is almost impossible to get into the Ivy League schools nowadays (according to the College forum you have to be at least “double-hooked”), the selection is so fierce and still some complete idiots are getting in? How?

Jewish kids get in at an extremely high numbers. One of the donors who pulled funding said he wanted Penn to up its Jews percentage to 30%. That should be easy to do with the new president under their control.

Jewish students accounted for about a third of enrollment several decades ago and now make up just roughly 16 percent of the 10,412 undergraduates at Penn. The number of observant students, which reached 200 in the early 2000s, has since dropped to about 70. …
…The Jewish Telegraphic Agency, a Jewish news wire service, reported in 1967 that Jewish students had reached high numbers at the Ivies after decades of low enrollments. The news outlet cited a New York Times survey at the time, which found that the student bodies at Columbia University and University of Pennsylvania were 40 percent Jewish. Jewish student populations at Harvard, Yale and Cornell were estimated to be between 20 and 25 percent, while those at Dartmouth, Princeton and Brown hovered between 13 and 20 percent.
Jews now make up 9.9 percent of Harvard’s undergraduate enrollment and 12.2 percent at Yale, according to estimates on Hillel’s website. The share of Jewish students at Columbia University is an estimated 22.3 percent. Roughly 8.8 percent of Dartmouth students, and 9.6 percent of Princeton students, are Jewish. Cornell and Brown are the only two Ivies to buck the trend of significant declines compared to the 1960s, with Jewish students making up 21.5 percent and 23.9 percent, respectively, of the enrollment.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/admissions/2023/05/08/jewish-student-enrollment-down-many-ivies

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Should Jewish students not have a safe campus environment and not be able to walk across campus without threats?

No one has really demonstrated that Jewish students on Penn's campus don't have a safe environment. (There was antisemitic vandalism at Hillel, but the police dealt with that.) I'm a Jewish Penn alum, but I don't consider the presence of pro-Palestinian demonstrations on campus to be evidence that it's not safe for Jews, even if they're shouting slogans I disagree with vehemently. It may be uncomfortable, but no one promised that kids at college would always be comfortable.

DP. Have you read the lawsuit filed against U Penn? There are claims of repeated harassment (being called “dirty Jew” on the way to class), professors requiring attendance at the literary festival to get class credit, a professor clapping along to shouts that of “go back to Brooklyn…or f*ing Berlin where you came from,” walkways to class blocked by demonstrations.

I haven't read the lawsuit, but honestly, while all of that sounds unpleasant, none of it sounds unsafe.

Re write your statement with any other group. I will wait.

Look, I’m Jewish, so if you’re trying to imply that I don’t care about antisemitism, it isn’t going to persuade me.

I don’t think any of this counts as “unsafe” for any group. I understand that part of the criticism here is that this sort of thing has been defined as unsafe for other groups, but I’m not a member of those other groups, so I’ll stick to what I think is or isn’t safe for my own.

[Anonymous]

Is this all a conspiracy to get Jews out of these schools to free up seats at these "top" schools for dumb, non-Jewish rich kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Should Jewish students not have a safe campus environment and not be able to walk across campus without threats?

No one has really demonstrated that Jewish students on Penn's campus don't have a safe environment. (There was antisemitic vandalism at Hillel, but the police dealt with that.) I'm a Jewish Penn alum, but I don't consider the presence of pro-Palestinian demonstrations on campus to be evidence that it's not safe for Jews, even if they're shouting slogans I disagree with vehemently. It may be uncomfortable, but no one promised that kids at college would always be comfortable.

DP. Have you read the lawsuit filed against U Penn? There are claims of repeated harassment (being called “dirty Jew” on the way to class), professors requiring attendance at the literary festival to get class credit, a professor clapping along to shouts that of “go back to Brooklyn…or f*ing Berlin where you came from,” walkways to class blocked by demonstrations.

I haven't read the lawsuit, but honestly, while all of that sounds unpleasant, none of it sounds unsafe.

Re write your statement with any other group. I will wait.

Look, I’m Jewish, so if you’re trying to imply that I don’t care about antisemitism, it isn’t going to persuade me.

I don’t think any of this counts as “unsafe” for any group. I understand that part of the criticism here is that this sort of thing has been defined as unsafe for other groups, but I’m not a member of those other groups, so I’ll stick to what I think is or isn’t safe for my own.

Why do you think each group gets to define what is “unsafe” and how would you propose to manage that?

In other words, if you want to create an environment where “dirty Jew” is acceptable speech, why are you not willing to say that “dirty (other group)” is also fine? That seems extremely inconsistent. How do you propose policing that as a policy on campuses?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They bobbed and weaved like proper politicians avoiding truthful answers. It was appalling.

Sorry what was appalling? That the university presidents stand by the first amendment? That no matter how offensive the speech, as long as it doesn’t cross into active bullying or misconduct, it will be allowed? This goes both ways! No one is questioning the Israeli rally where they held posters like finish the job. Finish what job? Of killing all the Palestinian children?

There is nothing offensive about the word intifada or the phrase from the river to the sea. Intifada literally means uprising and yes it’s uprising against the Zionist occupation and the injustices the Palestinians suffer at their hands. It does not mean killing all the Jews or calling for the annihilation of Israel! Zionists need to pstop being so insecure. Why are you so hell bent on suppressing free speech?

It calls for killing some of the Jews then per your statement

How ironic that you want to suppress free speech that is not actually causing anyone harm but you don’t want to speak up against Israel literally killing thousands of civilians every single day.

+1 million

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They bobbed and weaved like proper politicians avoiding truthful answers. It was appalling.

Sorry what was appalling? That the university presidents stand by the first amendment? That no matter how offensive the speech, as long as it doesn’t cross into active bullying or misconduct, it will be allowed? This goes both ways! No one is questioning the Israeli rally where they held posters like finish the job. Finish what job? Of killing all the Palestinian children?

There is nothing offensive about the word intifada or the phrase from the river to the sea. Intifada literally means uprising and yes it’s uprising against the Zionist occupation and the injustices the Palestinians suffer at their hands. It does not mean killing all the Jews or calling for the annihilation of Israel! Zionists need to pstop being so insecure. Why are you so hell bent on suppressing free speech?

It calls for killing some of the Jews then per your statement

How ironic that you want to suppress free speech that is not actually causing anyone harm but you don’t want to speak up against Israel literally killing thousands of civilians every single day.

+1 million

DP. Israel is not "literally" killing thousands of civilians every day. Even Hamas' health ministry, with its inflated counts, does not allege that.

[Anonymous]

The presidents -- academia's dumbest smart people?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Should Jewish students not have a safe campus environment and not be able to walk across campus without threats?

No one has really demonstrated that Jewish students on Penn's campus don't have a safe environment. (There was antisemitic vandalism at Hillel, but the police dealt with that.) I'm a Jewish Penn alum, but I don't consider the presence of pro-Palestinian demonstrations on campus to be evidence that it's not safe for Jews, even if they're shouting slogans I disagree with vehemently. It may be uncomfortable, but no one promised that kids at college would always be comfortable.

DP. Have you read the lawsuit filed against U Penn? There are claims of repeated harassment (being called “dirty Jew” on the way to class), professors requiring attendance at the literary festival to get class credit, a professor clapping along to shouts that of “go back to Brooklyn…or f*ing Berlin where you came from,” walkways to class blocked by demonstrations.

I haven't read the lawsuit, but honestly, while all of that sounds unpleasant, none of it sounds unsafe.

Re write your statement with any other group. I will wait.

Look, I’m Jewish, so if you’re trying to imply that I don’t care about antisemitism, it isn’t going to persuade me.

I don’t think any of this counts as “unsafe” for any group. I understand that part of the criticism here is that this sort of thing has been defined as unsafe for other groups, but I’m not a member of those other groups, so I’ll stick to what I think is or isn’t safe for my own.

Why do you think each group gets to define what is “unsafe” and how would you propose to manage that?

In other words, if you want to create an environment where “dirty Jew” is acceptable speech, why are you not willing to say that “dirty (other group)” is also fine? That seems extremely inconsistent. How do you propose policing that as a policy on campuses?

I don’t really think what is or isn’t acceptable for other groups has any bearing on what is dangerous (as opposed to offensive, which “dirty Jew” certainly is) for Jews, and I don’t care whether the broader policy is or isn’t consistent, because my concern is whether Jews are safe on campus, not whether university presidents are being hypocritical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Should Jewish students not have a safe campus environment and not be able to walk across campus without threats?

No one has really demonstrated that Jewish students on Penn's campus don't have a safe environment. (There was antisemitic vandalism at Hillel, but the police dealt with that.) I'm a Jewish Penn alum, but I don't consider the presence of pro-Palestinian demonstrations on campus to be evidence that it's not safe for Jews, even if they're shouting slogans I disagree with vehemently. It may be uncomfortable, but no one promised that kids at college would always be comfortable.

DP. Have you read the lawsuit filed against U Penn? There are claims of repeated harassment (being called “dirty Jew” on the way to class), professors requiring attendance at the literary festival to get class credit, a professor clapping along to shouts that of “go back to Brooklyn…or f*ing Berlin where you came from,” walkways to class blocked by demonstrations.

+1
I honestly can't believe this has to be spelled out, repeatedly. If these incredibly ugly chants were directed at black, Muslim, Hispanic, or Asian students, the perpetrators would be expelled. The double standard is so typical of the left.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Should Jewish students not have a safe campus environment and not be able to walk across campus without threats?

No one has really demonstrated that Jewish students on Penn's campus don't have a safe environment. (There was antisemitic vandalism at Hillel, but the police dealt with that.) I'm a Jewish Penn alum, but I don't consider the presence of pro-Palestinian demonstrations on campus to be evidence that it's not safe for Jews, even if they're shouting slogans I disagree with vehemently. It may be uncomfortable, but no one promised that kids at college would always be comfortable.

DP. Have you read the lawsuit filed against U Penn? There are claims of repeated harassment (being called “dirty Jew” on the way to class), professors requiring attendance at the literary festival to get class credit, a professor clapping along to shouts that of “go back to Brooklyn…or f*ing Berlin where you came from,” walkways to class blocked by demonstrations.

I haven't read the lawsuit, but honestly, while all of that sounds unpleasant, none of it sounds unsafe.

Re write your statement with any other group. I will wait.

Look, I’m Jewish, so if you’re trying to imply that I don’t care about antisemitism, it isn’t going to persuade me.

I don’t think any of this counts as “unsafe” for any group. I understand that part of the criticism here is that this sort of thing has been defined as unsafe for other groups, but I’m not a member of those other groups, so I’ll stick to what I think is or isn’t safe for my own.

Why do you think each group gets to define what is “unsafe” and how would you propose to manage that?

In other words, if you want to create an environment where “dirty Jew” is acceptable speech, why are you not willing to say that “dirty (other group)” is also fine? That seems extremely inconsistent. How do you propose policing that as a policy on campuses?

I don’t really think what is or isn’t acceptable for other groups has any bearing on what is dangerous (as opposed to offensive, which “dirty Jew” certainly is) for Jews, and I don’t care whether the broader policy is or isn’t consistent, because my concern is whether Jews are safe on campus, not whether university presidents are being hypocritical.

Other Jews are saying they feel unsafe on campuses, meanwhile you aren't even there...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Should Jewish students not have a safe campus environment and not be able to walk across campus without threats?

No one has really demonstrated that Jewish students on Penn's campus don't have a safe environment. (There was antisemitic vandalism at Hillel, but the police dealt with that.) I'm a Jewish Penn alum, but I don't consider the presence of pro-Palestinian demonstrations on campus to be evidence that it's not safe for Jews, even if they're shouting slogans I disagree with vehemently. It may be uncomfortable, but no one promised that kids at college would always be comfortable.

DP. Have you read the lawsuit filed against U Penn? There are claims of repeated harassment (being called “dirty Jew” on the way to class), professors requiring attendance at the literary festival to get class credit, a professor clapping along to shouts that of “go back to Brooklyn…or f*ing Berlin where you came from,” walkways to class blocked by demonstrations.

I haven't read the lawsuit, but honestly, while all of that sounds unpleasant, none of it sounds unsafe.

Re write your statement with any other group. I will wait.

Look, I’m Jewish, so if you’re trying to imply that I don’t care about antisemitism, it isn’t going to persuade me.

I don’t think any of this counts as “unsafe” for any group. I understand that part of the criticism here is that this sort of thing has been defined as unsafe for other groups, but I’m not a member of those other groups, so I’ll stick to what I think is or isn’t safe for my own.

Why do you think each group gets to define what is “unsafe” and how would you propose to manage that?

In other words, if you want to create an environment where “dirty Jew” is acceptable speech, why are you not willing to say that “dirty (other group)” is also fine? That seems extremely inconsistent. How do you propose policing that as a policy on campuses?

I don’t really think what is or isn’t acceptable for other groups has any bearing on what is dangerous (as opposed to offensive, which “dirty Jew” certainly is) for Jews, and I don’t care whether the broader policy is or isn’t consistent, because my concern is whether Jews are safe on campus, not whether university presidents are being hypocritical.

I was the one who originally responded to you, and your comment which I bolded was about the campus being uncomfortable. I don’t see how you can look at the allegations here and not describe them as more than just “uncomfortable.” In addition, federal civil rights law requires schools to “protect students from discrimination and respond to harassment that creates a hostile environment.” The standard isn’t that schools lay low until a student feels unsafe.

Lastly, and I think we all know this, the schools have been inconsistent in how they respond to situations where a student is exposed to words that make them feel unsafe.