Big 3 (or thereabouts) College Results - Class of 2021

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is wrong to assume that public school students are doing better than normal while only private school students are doing worse than normal. TJ students are doing much worse than normal as well! A education/application agency I know says that their students’ EA application results (all public) are much worse than normal as well. The first primary reasons they offered are: the big, big jump in # of applicants for very competitive colleges. In years past, many students with special qualifications/attributes/characteristics/achievements/talents did not apply to the very selective colleges because of very bad SAT scores. With SAT scores optional, these no traditional applicants took away many spots. The second reason is that colleges are reluctant to hand out EAs because of the many uncertainties.

Implication: Test scores will become less and less important, and special talents more and more important.

Wrong - Recruited Athletes still had to submit official test scores and many HS hosted the “optional at school SAT/ ACT test day “ so that they could fulfill the requirement

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, you are right. Top students are top students anywhere.

Also keep in mind, though, that a kid who is the top 1/3 of a small class (around here most are 40-125) might be ranked 15th- 40th in the small class (which is why they don't rank in small schools). The 15th ranked student in a large public class of 600 is in the top 2% of the class, and the 40th is top 6%.

Most public schools in the DMV don't rank either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is pretty odd compared to other countries. Shouldn’t some universities still keep academics at the fore?

Merit is the opposite of quotas. American colleges are increasingly about quotas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is wrong to assume that public school students are doing better than normal while only private school students are doing worse than normal. TJ students are doing much worse than normal as well! A education/application agency I know says that their students’ EA application results (all public) are much worse than normal as well. The first primary reasons they offered are: the big, big jump in # of applicants for very competitive colleges. In years past, many students with special qualifications/attributes/characteristics/achievements/talents did not apply to the very selective colleges because of very bad SAT scores. With SAT scores optional, these no traditional applicants took away many spots. The second reason is that colleges are reluctant to hand out EAs because of the many uncertainties.

Implication: Test scores will become less and less important, and special talents more and more important.

Wrong - Recruited Athletes still had to submit official test scores and many HS hosted the “optional at school SAT/ ACT test day “ so that they could fulfill the requirement

Come on! What percent of HS students are recruited athletes? I know that less than 5% of the HS athletes will be a college athlete, and most students in public schools are not in the varsity teams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is pretty odd compared to other countries. Shouldn’t some universities still keep academics at the fore?

Merit is the opposite of quotas. American colleges are increasingly about quotas.

Merit does not matter. You know what matters!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is pretty odd compared to other countries. Shouldn’t some universities still keep academics at the fore?

Merit is the opposite of quotas. American colleges are increasingly about quotas.

Merit does not matter. You know what matters!

Money.

[Anonymous]

Yes sir! Watch how many full pay kids get off waitlists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, you are right. Top students are top students anywhere.

Also keep in mind, though, that a kid who is the top 1/3 of a small class (around here most are 40-125) might be ranked 15th- 40th in the small class (which is why they don't rank in small schools). The 15th ranked student in a large public class of 600 is in the top 2% of the class, and the 40th is top 6%.

Most public schools in the DMV don't rank either.

Not the point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is pretty odd compared to other countries. Shouldn’t some universities still keep academics at the fore?

Merit is the opposite of quotas. American colleges are increasingly about quotas.

It is impossible for the US to have every college be based purely on some random set of "merit" numbers. It is a giant capitalist market with no real way to compare apples to apples. There is no single high school curriculum across the country. There is no single set of skills colleges are looking for from every student for every major they offer. Most students do not apply to college with a major in mind at all. There is no single way of grading students in high school. The standardized tests are validly criticized for numbers of reasons, though presently it's the best we have since every high school is different.

You cannot compare US admissions as a whole to other countries; maybe to one state system, minus the private universities, but not as a whole. In the UK in 2020, 728,780 people applied through UCAS to an undergraduate course. In the US according to Pew, there were 10.2 million college applications submitted. It is a completely different universe. The closest you will get to the merit system most other countries have is the state college system, but that is warped by the existence of out of state applications and competition from private colleges in and out of the state. And, of course, so much of our system is based on private money, obviously more so at private schools, but also given the amount parents must pitch in for even public schools, and that changes the business model drastically.

If you want something close to a merit based system, stick with your state's public university system. The rest is free market.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But parents send their kids to a Big Whatever for educational experience, not to get into a good university!

+1. I just don't understand all this hand-wringing on this thread. I thought private parents didn't care about college placement just that their kid received a far superior educational experience?

Did your child received a far superior educational experience? Yes. Then what are you so worried for regarding college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, you are right. Top students are top students anywhere.

Also keep in mind, though, that a kid who is the top 1/3 of a small class (around here most are 40-125) might be ranked 15th- 40th in the small class (which is why they don't rank in small schools). The 15th ranked student in a large public class of 600 is in the top 2% of the class, and the 40th is top 6%.

Most public schools in the DMV don't rank either.

Not the point.

Ok . . . so what IS the point you're trying to make?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But parents send their kids to a Big Whatever for educational experience, not to get into a good university!

+1. I just don't understand all this hand-wringing on this thread. I thought private parents didn't care about college placement just that their kid received a far superior educational experience?

Did your child received a far superior educational experience? Yes. Then what are you so worried for regarding college?

their kids received much better educational experiences and the colleges need to realize that. Just like then they were applying to HS and their K-8 HOS made sure the high school knew how great the kids were

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is at a Big 3 also. We have one solid EA acceptance which we thought was a borderline safety school but is looking better and better to attend with all the deferrals my kid has gotten (and to schools where the kid fell squarely within the Naviance acceptance range). And we are full-pay so that has not made a difference.

I do think the public school students with 4.5 GPAs and 10 AP classes are winning out this year compared to the top one-third of students at private schools that have a 3.5 - 3.7 GPA and no AP classes. My kid has a GPA in this range and solid ACT results (34-36) but with test scores becoming increasingly irrelevant, all that stands out is a deflated 3.5 against an inflated 4.5.

All I can hope is that this is a long process that will continue to unfold until June 1. The public school kids are applying to a lot more schools and getting into to places. However, they can only attend one college so I'm hoping the deferrals turn into acceptances or waitlists which then turn into acceptances.

High School counselors at our Big 3 are MIA and seem to be unaccountable and untouchable. If they are feeling panicked, they are definitely not showing it. Plus, they never guarantee results. They always say, "it looks like", "we hope" or "Naviance shows." So with that vague language, they effectively hedge their bets.

This is utterly laughable. If a public school kid with 10 APs and a 4.5 GPA is "winning out" over a top 1/3 private school kid with a 3.5 it's because the public school kid is objectively a stronger applicant. That public school kid would be at or near the very top of the class, and you're deluding yourself if you think that the very top students in the DMV's public school systems -- which are among the best in the country -- don't compare well with a top 1/3 student at a Big 3.

There also appears to be this misconception among private school parents that every public school kid has 10 APs and a 4.5 GPA. That's simply not the case. You all need to get off your high horses.

I never thought I'd see the day where Big 3 parents would be complaining that they're at an unfair disadvantage over public high schools. Wow.

I have one in public and one in private--it is sort of funny to watch this elitist freak-out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is pretty odd compared to other countries. Shouldn’t some universities still keep academics at the fore?

Merit is the opposite of quotas. American colleges are increasingly about quotas.

It is impossible for the US to have every college be based purely on some random set of "merit" numbers. It is a giant capitalist market with no real way to compare apples to apples. There is no single high school curriculum across the country. There is no single set of skills colleges are looking for from every student for every major they offer. Most students do not apply to college with a major in mind at all. There is no single way of grading students in high school. The standardized tests are validly criticized for numbers of reasons, though presently it's the best we have since every high school is different.

You cannot compare US admissions as a whole to other countries; maybe to one state system, minus the private universities, but not as a whole. In the UK in 2020, 728,780 people applied through UCAS to an undergraduate course. In the US according to Pew, there were 10.2 million college applications submitted. It is a completely different universe. The closest you will get to the merit system most other countries have is the state college system, but that is warped by the existence of out of state applications and competition from private colleges in and out of the state. And, of course, so much of our system is based on private money, obviously more so at private schools, but also given the amount parents must pitch in for even public schools, and that changes the business model drastically.

If you want something close to a merit based system, stick with your state's public university system. The rest is free market.

So legacy admissions are all about free market? Um. Ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is at a Big 3 also. We have one solid EA acceptance which we thought was a borderline safety school but is looking better and better to attend with all the deferrals my kid has gotten (and to schools where the kid fell squarely within the Naviance acceptance range). And we are full-pay so that has not made a difference.

I do think the public school students with 4.5 GPAs and 10 AP classes are winning out this year compared to the top one-third of students at private schools that have a 3.5 - 3.7 GPA and no AP classes. My kid has a GPA in this range and solid ACT results (34-36) but with test scores becoming increasingly irrelevant, all that stands out is a deflated 3.5 against an inflated 4.5.

All I can hope is that this is a long process that will continue to unfold until June 1. The public school kids are applying to a lot more schools and getting into to places. However, they can only attend one college so I'm hoping the deferrals turn into acceptances or waitlists which then turn into acceptances.

High School counselors at our Big 3 are MIA and seem to be unaccountable and untouchable. If they are feeling panicked, they are definitely not showing it. Plus, they never guarantee results. They always say, "it looks like", "we hope" or "Naviance shows." So with that vague language, they effectively hedge their bets.

This is utterly laughable. If a public school kid with 10 APs and a 4.5 GPA is "winning out" over a top 1/3 private school kid with a 3.5 it's because the public school kid is objectively a stronger applicant. That public school kid would be at or near the very top of the class, and you're deluding yourself if you think that the very top students in the DMV's public school systems -- which are among the best in the country -- don't compare well with a top 1/3 student at a Big 3.

There also appears to be this misconception among private school parents that every public school kid has 10 APs and a 4.5 GPA. That's simply not the case. You all need to get off your high horses.

I never thought I'd see the day where Big 3 parents would be complaining that they're at an unfair disadvantage over public high schools. Wow.

I have one in public and one in private--it is sort of funny to watch this elitist freak-out.

Yep, me too. I have one kid at Wilson (DCPS) and one at a Big3 school. Wilson admits are running circles around Big3 admits this admission season.

I too find this highly entertaining. Yes, I pay Big3 tuition but at my core I identify more with Wilson kids. I silently can't stand the elitism.