Big 3 (or thereabouts) College Results - Class of 2021

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not *that* random. The top students still get into the top schools, although they generally can’t count on getting into a specific one.

Yeah, this. Seems highly unlikely that a top student from the Big 3 is going to be shut out of the top colleges, even if multiple rejections/WLs are still quite possible or even probable.

This is no longer true and is the reality that people don't want to talk about or admit, especially after spending $40K-$50K per year per kid. Lots of kids get As at the Big 3, probably around 25%-30% depending on the school. They may not all get high As, but they get As and A-s and then an even larger percentage get all As with one or two Bs. You're basically looking at 50%-60% of the class getting As or mostly As and a few Bs. The top 14-18% of students may be able to get into top 25 universities if they have things going for them more than just grades. The remaining 80% of students have less luck. Parents all like to think their child will fall into the top 20% of the class, but 80% won't and that's a fact. This means 80% of students, many of whom get mostly As, don't get into top 25 or even top 40 schools. It's just a reality.

Anecdotally this doesn’t match what we’ve seen either for the grades or the college admissions.

Not even anecdotally. At my kids' private last year, over 50% of the class went to top 15 schools. That's not an anecdote, it's fact. By the way, my kid wasn't one of them. Bottom 10% of the class--still at major university in top 60 USNWR.

Do tell, what school? I call total BS.

Sounds like GDS results - 2020 was a strong class.

I agree. I have a class of 2022 kid at GDS, and I've heard from the counselors that they are similar in academic focus to 2020, so I might expect an uptick in Top20 applications next year. Both my kid and their advisors have always said that the class of 2021 are much more free-spirited and they didn't apply to as many HYPS as the prior two classes to begin with. Maybe it's a bit of an excuse but we've heard that for a couple of years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not *that* random. The top students still get into the top schools, although they generally can’t count on getting into a specific one.

Yeah, this. Seems highly unlikely that a top student from the Big 3 is going to be shut out of the top colleges, even if multiple rejections/WLs are still quite possible or even probable.

This is no longer true and is the reality that people don't want to talk about or admit, especially after spending $40K-$50K per year per kid. Lots of kids get As at the Big 3, probably around 25%-30% depending on the school. They may not all get high As, but they get As and A-s and then an even larger percentage get all As with one or two Bs. You're basically looking at 50%-60% of the class getting As or mostly As and a few Bs. The top 14-18% of students may be able to get into top 25 universities if they have things going for them more than just grades. The remaining 80% of students have less luck. Parents all like to think their child will fall into the top 20% of the class, but 80% won't and that's a fact. This means 80% of students, many of whom get mostly As, don't get into top 25 or even top 40 schools. It's just a reality.

Anecdotally this doesn’t match what we’ve seen either for the grades or the college admissions.

Not even anecdotally. At my kids' private last year, over 50% of the class went to top 15 schools. That's not an anecdote, it's fact. By the way, my kid wasn't one of them. Bottom 10% of the class--still at major university in top 60 USNWR.

Do tell, what school? I call total BS.

Sounds like GDS results - 2020 was a strong class.

I agree. I have a class of 2022 kid at GDS, and I've heard from the counselors that they are similar in academic focus to 2020, so I might expect an uptick in Top20 applications next year. Both my kid and their advisors have always said that the class of 2021 are much more free-spirited and they didn't apply to as many HYPS as the prior two classes to begin with. Maybe it's a bit of an excuse but we've heard that for a couple of years.

The problem for the 2021 class universally is that a lot of 2020s deferred enrollment until fall 2021. That meant more 2020s got admission offers at top schools and that fewer seats were available to 2021s. This situation is unlikely to persist in 2022.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't bank on Class of 2021 being an outlier

It is more likely that the novel criteria for admission applied to this HS graduating class will be a social experiment that Universities use moving forward to revamp BOTH whether to go forward with SAT/ACT

OR Can it

AND, whether it pans out that admitting the highest percentage of URMs, 1st generation college students, women to STEM majors and non-legacy admits with no SAT scores produces an equal or higher class of 2025 Graduation , Grad school acceptance, percent hired after graduating with a 4 year degree

not to mention student debt to 1st 5 years after graduating college salary

Or whether, they fail, drop out and these schools should have stuck with the SAT as an indicator

Too rich a social experiment to just tick it off as a " one off" , but likely any reform than comes from it won't affect HS class of 2022- but maybe HS class of 2028/ today's middle school students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't bank on Class of 2021 being an outlier

It is more likely that the novel criteria for admission applied to this HS graduating class will be a social experiment that Universities use moving forward to revamp BOTH whether to go forward with SAT/ACT

OR Can it

AND, whether it pans out that admitting the highest percentage of URMs, 1st generation college students, women to STEM majors and non-legacy admits with no SAT scores produces an equal or higher class of 2025 Graduation , Grad school acceptance, percent hired after graduating with a 4 year degree

not to mention student debt to 1st 5 years after graduating college salary

Or whether, they fail, drop out and these schools should have stuck with the SAT as an indicator

Too rich a social experiment to just tick it off as a " one off" , but likely any reform than comes from it won't affect HS class of 2022- but maybe HS class of 2028/ today's middle school students

Can someone translate this gibberish?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What percentage of STA parents had Ivy League educations?

While I do not know the answer to your question, I know several ivy graduate STA parents disappointed by their STA graduating child’s college results this DAR this year.. So much for legacy status....

I am highly confident that there are more parents at STA (and NCS, SFS, GDS) who went to Ivy League schools than there are students there who will get in - the Ivies just aren't going to take enough people from these schools for every legacy to get into his/her parents' school.

We are Ivy grads - ugrad and grad school. We no longer donate nor care to have our kids apply. They’re all up to their eyeballs in identity politics and weak majors. And totally agree with the wsj calling them out in never increasing number of seats s. If their mission was to educate as many students as possible why aren’t they trying to expand the number of admits the last 100 years. It’s not like population hasn’t increased. It’s not like the Board of Harvard hasn’t been stewing over that the last 7 years. Either way, hate the Dean, President and the it seems like half the professors want to be politicians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't bank on Class of 2021 being an outlier

It is more likely that the novel criteria for admission applied to this HS graduating class will be a social experiment that Universities use moving forward to revamp BOTH whether to go forward with SAT/ACT

OR Can it

AND, whether it pans out that admitting the highest percentage of URMs, 1st generation college students, women to STEM majors and non-legacy admits with no SAT scores produces an equal or higher class of 2025 Graduation , Grad school acceptance, percent hired after graduating with a 4 year degree

not to mention student debt to 1st 5 years after graduating college salary

Or whether, they fail, drop out and these schools should have stuck with the SAT as an indicator

Too rich a social experiment to just tick it off as a " one off" , but likely any reform than comes from it won't affect HS class of 2022- but maybe HS class of 2028/ today's middle school students

Can someone translate this gibberish?

I’m not the poster but read it again- it makes perfect sense and I think it’s spot on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What percentage of STA parents had Ivy League educations?

While I do not know the answer to your question, I know several ivy graduate STA parents disappointed by their STA graduating child’s college results this DAR this year.. So much for legacy status....

I am highly confident that there are more parents at STA (and NCS, SFS, GDS) who went to Ivy League schools than there are students there who will get in - the Ivies just aren't going to take enough people from these schools for every legacy to get into his/her parents' school.

We are Ivy grads - ugrad and grad school. We no longer donate nor care to have our kids apply. They’re all up to their eyeballs in identity politics and weak majors. And totally agree with the wsj calling them out in never increasing number of seats s. If their mission was to educate as many students as possible why aren’t they trying to expand the number of admits the last 100 years. It’s not like population hasn’t increased. It’s not like the Board of Harvard hasn’t been stewing over that the last 7 years. Either way, hate the Dean, President and the it seems like half the professors want to be politicians.

Totally agreed. Encouraging my kids to go elsewhere. Not impressed at all by Ivy degrees. Yes I have them but your opinion of me should be based on something else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't bank on Class of 2021 being an outlier

It is more likely that the novel criteria for admission applied to this HS graduating class will be a social experiment that Universities use moving forward to revamp BOTH whether to go forward with SAT/ACT

OR Can it

AND, whether it pans out that admitting the highest percentage of URMs, 1st generation college students, women to STEM majors and non-legacy admits with no SAT scores produces an equal or higher class of 2025 Graduation , Grad school acceptance, percent hired after graduating with a 4 year degree

not to mention student debt to 1st 5 years after graduating college salary

Or whether, they fail, drop out and these schools should have stuck with the SAT as an indicator

Too rich a social experiment to just tick it off as a " one off" , but likely any reform than comes from it won't affect HS class of 2022- but maybe HS class of 2028/ today's middle school students

Can someone translate this gibberish?

I’m not the poster but read it again- it makes perfect sense and I think it’s spot on.

DP and no it doesn't. I thought I was following until the last sentence. In order to make sense of the words you have to imply a lot of meaning that is not articulated. Furthermore, it is unclear what "student debt to 1st 5 years" is referring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't bank on Class of 2021 being an outlier

It is more likely that the novel criteria for admission applied to this HS graduating class will be a social experiment that Universities use moving forward to revamp BOTH whether to go forward with SAT/ACT

OR Can it

AND, whether it pans out that admitting the highest percentage of URMs, 1st generation college students, women to STEM majors and non-legacy admits with no SAT scores produces an equal or higher class of 2025 Graduation , Grad school acceptance, percent hired after graduating with a 4 year degree

not to mention student debt to 1st 5 years after graduating college salary

Or whether, they fail, drop out and these schools should have stuck with the SAT as an indicator

Too rich a social experiment to just tick it off as a " one off" , but likely any reform than comes from it won't affect HS class of 2022- but maybe HS class of 2028/ today's middle school students

Can someone translate this gibberish?

I’m not the poster but read it again- it makes perfect sense and I think it’s spot on.

DP and no it doesn't. I thought I was following until the last sentence. In order to make sense of the words you have to imply a lot of meaning that is not articulated. Furthermore, it is unclear what "student debt to 1st 5 years" is referring.

The HS class of 2028 are current 5th graders not current middle school students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't bank on Class of 2021 being an outlier

It is more likely that the novel criteria for admission applied to this HS graduating class will be a social experiment that Universities use moving forward to revamp BOTH whether to go forward with SAT/ACT

OR Can it

AND, whether it pans out that admitting the highest percentage of URMs, 1st generation college students, women to STEM majors and non-legacy admits with no SAT scores produces an equal or higher class of 2025 Graduation , Grad school acceptance, percent hired after graduating with a 4 year degree

not to mention student debt to 1st 5 years after graduating college salary

Or whether, they fail, drop out and these schools should have stuck with the SAT as an indicator

Too rich a social experiment to just tick it off as a " one off" , but likely any reform than comes from it won't affect HS class of 2022- but maybe HS class of 2028/ today's middle school students

Can someone translate this gibberish?

I’m not the poster but read it again- it makes perfect sense and I think it’s spot on.

DP and no it doesn't. I thought I was following until the last sentence. In order to make sense of the words you have to imply a lot of meaning that is not articulated. Furthermore, it is unclear what "student debt to 1st 5 years" is referring.

The HS class of 2028 are current 5th graders not current middle school students.

I thought the post was perfectly clear as well, and I agree with it. In many many school districts, 5th grade is middle school. One person has a logical post and you just can't stand it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't bank on Class of 2021 being an outlier

It is more likely that the novel criteria for admission applied to this HS graduating class will be a social experiment that Universities use moving forward to revamp BOTH whether to go forward with SAT/ACT

OR Can it

AND, whether it pans out that admitting the highest percentage of URMs, 1st generation college students, women to STEM majors and non-legacy admits with no SAT scores produces an equal or higher class of 2025 Graduation , Grad school acceptance, percent hired after graduating with a 4 year degree

not to mention student debt to 1st 5 years after graduating college salary

Or whether, they fail, drop out and these schools should have stuck with the SAT as an indicator

Too rich a social experiment to just tick it off as a " one off" , but likely any reform than comes from it won't affect HS class of 2022- but maybe HS class of 2028/ today's middle school students

Can someone translate this gibberish?

I’m not the poster but read it again- it makes perfect sense and I think it’s spot on.

DP and no it doesn't. I thought I was following until the last sentence. In order to make sense of the words you have to imply a lot of meaning that is not articulated. Furthermore, it is unclear what "student debt to 1st 5 years" is referring.

OK, I’ll try again :

If you read or have access to Ivy Admit stats for class of 2021, much of which is publicly shared by the schools you will see some unique stAts for this years HS Senior admits . These stats are:

1) Ivy League took highest percentage ever of URM, particularly Native American and AA than ever in history

2) Ivy took highest percentage of female applicants than in history, particularly in STEM majors

3) for 1st time in decades no one had to submit SAT / ACT scores to gain any of these admissions so, since the SAT has been used for decades to gauge admit worthiness as - supposedly it predicted academic success in college , it will be interesting to see how this uniquely chosen future class of 2025 college grads from Ivy fares

Meaning, will ditching the SAT as a vetting tool backfire ( meaning of a large portion of class of 2021 Ivy admits who did not submit SAT scores don’t graduate , drop out or flunk out - that would indicate dropping SAT requirement was a mistake . Conversely, if these class of 2021 Ivy admits ( sans SAT score ) do just as well as prior decades of kids subjected to testing, that might bode well for permanently ditching the SAT, ACT and AP tests

Other common indicators of positive college outcome ( after admission ) are salary 5 years out of college and percentage of debt relative to annual salary of those grads 5& 10 years post graduation

So, rather than saying class of 2021 will be just a forgotten outlier in which admit rates were more competitive than prior years for non URM, male and legacies and that this will never be repeated again- I would caution you that the IVY league has just created a study class and the outdo ones from it in terms of graduation rates from those Ivys in 4 years will probably heavily impact future policy decisions regarding SAT/ ACT , gender and other affirmative action policies

[Anonymous]

Maybe no impact for class of 2022 , but for today’s middle schoolers - yes- because that is how long it takes Ivys to take data, committee meet over it, come up with a new strategic plan and then announce it just in time to put parents on notice in say, fall of 2028

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't bank on Class of 2021 being an outlier

It is more likely that the novel criteria for admission applied to this HS graduating class will be a social experiment that Universities use moving forward to revamp BOTH whether to go forward with SAT/ACT

OR Can it

AND, whether it pans out that admitting the highest percentage of URMs, 1st generation college students, women to STEM majors and non-legacy admits with no SAT scores produces an equal or higher class of 2025 Graduation , Grad school acceptance, percent hired after graduating with a 4 year degree

not to mention student debt to 1st 5 years after graduating college salary

Or whether, they fail, drop out and these schools should have stuck with the SAT as an indicator

Too rich a social experiment to just tick it off as a " one off" , but likely any reform than comes from it won't affect HS class of 2022- but maybe HS class of 2028/ today's middle school students

Can someone translate this gibberish?

I’m not the poster but read it again- it makes perfect sense and I think it’s spot on.

DP and no it doesn't. I thought I was following until the last sentence. In order to make sense of the words you have to imply a lot of meaning that is not articulated. Furthermore, it is unclear what "student debt to 1st 5 years" is referring.

OK, I’ll try again :

If you read or have access to Ivy Admit stats for class of 2021, much of which is publicly shared by the schools you will see some unique stAts for this years HS Senior admits . These stats are:

1) Ivy League took highest percentage ever of URM, particularly Native American and AA than ever in history

2) Ivy took highest percentage of female applicants than in history, particularly in STEM majors

3) for 1st time in decades no one had to submit SAT / ACT scores to gain any of these admissions so, since the SAT has been used for decades to gauge admit worthiness as - supposedly it predicted academic success in college , it will be interesting to see how this uniquely chosen future class of 2025 college grads from Ivy fares

Meaning, will ditching the SAT as a vetting tool backfire ( meaning of a large portion of class of 2021 Ivy admits who did not submit SAT scores don’t graduate , drop out or flunk out - that would indicate dropping SAT requirement was a mistake . Conversely, if these class of 2021 Ivy admits ( sans SAT score ) do just as well as prior decades of kids subjected to testing, that might bode well for permanently ditching the SAT, ACT and AP tests

Other common indicators of positive college outcome ( after admission ) are salary 5 years out of college and percentage of debt relative to annual salary of those grads 5& 10 years post graduation

So, rather than saying class of 2021 will be just a forgotten outlier in which admit rates were more competitive than prior years for non URM, male and legacies and that this will never be repeated again- I would caution you that the IVY league has just created a study class and the outdo ones from it in terms of graduation rates from those Ivys in 4 years will probably heavily impact future policy decisions regarding SAT/ ACT , gender and other affirmative action policies

Isn't "graduation rate" or "drop out rate"/fail to keep up with the rigor depending on how professors give out grade? It is a subject measure.

So, liberal colleges can force/pressure professors to give out easy grades so that those students who have lower SAT/ACT scores can still graduate. This happened in the past, and there is no reason this will not happen for this class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The problem for the 2021 class universally is that a lot of 2020s deferred enrollment until fall 2021. That meant more 2020s got admission offers at top schools and that fewer seats were available to 2021s. This situation is unlikely to persist in 2022.

Several of the Ivies and Stanford took classes similar in size to past years despite deferrals, so not necessarily an issue.

Admission rates down because applications way up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The problem for the 2021 class universally is that a lot of 2020s deferred enrollment until fall 2021. That meant more 2020s got admission offers at top schools and that fewer seats were available to 2021s. This situation is unlikely to persist in 2022.

Several of the Ivies and Stanford took classes similar in size to past years despite deferrals, so not necessarily an issue.

Admission rates down because applications way up.

The number of deferrals from the class of 2020 is a real issue that both increased opportunity for less than qualified candidates in the class of 2020 and limited opportunity for more qualified members of the class of 2021. My kid was accepted into their first choice reach, so it isn’t an issue in our family (and we are grateful) - but many of my child’s very talented, qualified classmates are now looking at attending their 2nd or 3rd choice school. Their frustration is justified. The dynamic will not be the same for next year.