Official Abortion Thread

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Nothing wrong with leaving the legality of abortion to individual states.

Yes, there is. States are not allowed to decide about constitutionally protected rights. That's why we have a federal government and are not a confederacy.

Roe v Wade was a seriously flawed decision which needs to be modified or reversed.

Roe v Wade was flawed. The right to privacy was a made up thing at the time. But it is part of a line of a hugely important cases to the American pUblic. Right to access birth control, right to marry outside your race, right to engage in homosexual behavior, right to educate your children as you prefer (religious schooling), right to end medical “heroic measures”, right to compose your family as you see fit (it the context of laws banning multiple generations from living together”— these were all right to privacy cases.

If you get rid of the right to privacy, all these cases fall. Some, like being allowed to send kids to private or religious schools, conservative like.

The difference is that in the case of abortion, the rights of an unborn child is subjugated to the wishes of the woman carrying the child. Even Roe when it was decided was predicated on the viability of the fetus outside of the mother's womb which is why the abortions in the third semester was constrained. With medical advances that viability has become possible at an even earlier point in the pregnancy.

No, not the woman’s “wishes,” her *rights*. Her right to bodily autonomy, to not have her body conscripted for someone else’s purpose, enslaved for the benefit of another.

she doesn’t have the right to kill another life. Never has.

People kill other lives all the time - in order to eat meat. Do you find that immoral?

[Anonymous]

Once child is born does the woman have the right to a and on unwanted child or is she stuck with it forever?

[Anonymous]

This is spot on.

[Anonymous]

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2019/05/pastor-who-repeatedly-raped-daughter-14-gets-light-sentence-because-jesus/

And if this had produced a baby in Alabama, it would have needed to be carried to term. And y'all ok with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Once child is born does the woman have the right to a and on unwanted child or is she stuck with it forever?

She can leave the baby at the fire hospital.

http://safehaven.tv/states/alabama/

[Anonymous]

I would support abortion more if men could opt for it.

And If the woman said “no”, then child support was deemed not required.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would support abortion more if men could opt for it.

And If the woman said “no”, then child support was deemed not required.

Child support is for the child. Not for the mother or the father.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would support abortion more if men could opt for it.

And If the woman said “no”, then child support was deemed not required.

Child support is for the child. Not for the mother or the father.

Correct. And?

[Anonymous]

Interestingly, a country like Sweden has liberal abortion laws, yet abortion rate is low. Women have access to contraceptives. Perhaps we could study what obstacles women in Alabama have to getting reliable access to medical care, what obstacles they face, and address that.
In a perfect world that could be a solution, but you would have to agree to not start shaming women. I somehow feel that that almost is the motivating factor for many.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So can women in Alabama claim unborn children as dependents on state tax returns?

I don’t know about Alabama, but that is explicitly included in the Georgia law.
https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/anti-abortion-heartbeat-bill-would-also-have-tax-impact-for-georgians/zqFJ5osEEt3g3VlwRrLb9I/

Interesting. So if the threshold is heartbeat perhaps that will be what determines coitizenship too- like if the heartbeat is first heard on US soil, the embryo is a US cit.

Exactly!

So, if the "baby" has its first heartbeat outside of the U.S. but is born in the U.S., is it not a citizen?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interestingly, a country like Sweden has liberal abortion laws, yet abortion rate is low. Women have access to contraceptives. Perhaps we could study what obstacles women in Alabama have to getting reliable access to medical care, what obstacles they face, and address that.
In a perfect world that could be a solution, but you would have to agree to not start shaming women. I somehow feel that that almost is the motivating factor for many.

The obstacles are poverty, religion, and stupidity, in no particular order.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So can women in Alabama claim unborn children as dependents on state tax returns?

I don’t know about Alabama, but that is explicitly included in the Georgia law.
https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/anti-abortion-heartbeat-bill-would-also-have-tax-impact-for-georgians/zqFJ5osEEt3g3VlwRrLb9I/

Interesting. So if the threshold is heartbeat perhaps that will be what determines coitizenship too- like if the heartbeat is first heard on US soil, the embryo is a US cit.

Exactly!

So, if the "baby" has its first heartbeat outside of the U.S. but is born in the U.S., is it not a citizen?

Are 17 year olds who had their first heartbeats more than 18 years ago eligible to vote?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So can women in Alabama claim unborn children as dependents on state tax returns?

I don’t know about Alabama, but that is explicitly included in the Georgia law.
https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/anti-abortion-heartbeat-bill-would-also-have-tax-impact-for-georgians/zqFJ5osEEt3g3VlwRrLb9I/

Interesting. So if the threshold is heartbeat perhaps that will be what determines coitizenship too- like if the heartbeat is first heard on US soil, the embryo is a US cit.

Exactly!

So, if the "baby" has its first heartbeat outside of the U.S. but is born in the U.S., is it not a citizen?

Are 17 year olds who had their first heartbeats more than 18 years ago eligible to vote?

Yes, in Alabama you are actually about 40 weeks older than you are in the rest of the country. So they can drink as well.

To the PP: since “personhood” begins at heartbeat, birth is a meaningless milestone. Where you’re born no longer matters, only where your heart is first detected. (I mean technically it should be where you’re conceived but that will cause a lot of problems with twins, who would technically then only be half people.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So can women in Alabama claim unborn children as dependents on state tax returns?

I don’t know about Alabama, but that is explicitly included in the Georgia law.
https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/anti-abortion-heartbeat-bill-would-also-have-tax-impact-for-georgians/zqFJ5osEEt3g3VlwRrLb9I/

Interesting. So if the threshold is heartbeat perhaps that will be what determines coitizenship too- like if the heartbeat is first heard on US soil, the embryo is a US cit.

Exactly!

So, if the "baby" has its first heartbeat outside of the U.S. but is born in the U.S., is it not a citizen?

Are 17 year olds who had their first heartbeats more than 18 years ago eligible to vote?

Yes, in Alabama you are actually about 40 weeks older than you are in the rest of the country. So they can drink as well.

To the PP: since “personhood” begins at heartbeat, birth is a meaningless milestone. Where you’re born no longer matters, only where your heart is first detected. (I mean technically it should be where you’re conceived but that will cause a lot of problems with twins, who would technically then only be half people.)

Does that mean all women need to have transvaginal ultrasounds every month just to be sure?

[Anonymous]

Anchor embryos would be awesome.