Sophie Turner and Joe Jonas headed to divorce

[Anonymous]

Regardless of what team you’re on, this just sucks for them and the kids. Flying across the ocean and battling 5hr jet lag (minimum!) every time you want to see your kids.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Accordint to past social media, the Jonas Brothers started rtour rehearsals in the USA for the tour at the end of June / beginning of July so it seems Joe likely brought the kids with him then - which aligns with his having the kids for 3 months statement. The tour started August 12 but lots of social media posts in July about the rehearsals.

According to Sophie's filing, Joe was in England until July 31st, when he left with the kids for his tour. It's possible he went to those rehearsals in June/July, but unless Sophie is flat out lying in her filing (very unlikely), he must have just come out for a few days here and there. Even if he brought the kids with him on some or all of those trips (unlikely given their ages), that's not the same as the kids being in his primary custody away from Sophie for 3 months. Even if she was working, if he was in England with the kids, they would be in their joint custody during that time.

And here is where I note that it's stuff like this that makes me pro-Sophie in this matter because Joe is trying to make it sound like, because Sophie was working for a few months and he spent a month or two as the primary parent during the most intense part of her shoot, he has somehow become the primary parent forever and Sophie has abdicated her responsibilities towards the kids.

This is a woman who literally did not work for 3 years while having these kids, despite working in an industry where giving up 3 years of your late 20s to stay home is worth a LOT of money, and having a career where ordinarily she would have been seeking to capitalize on her GoT exposure more aggressively. The fact that he seems to be using the only job she has take since getting pregnant with their eldest as evidence that she's just not that into being a mom anymore, while he is constantly touring with two different bands, is the sort of think that makes me really angry. That's why you see so many women talking about this case with some passion. The timing of the divorce and the way Joe seems to be treating a woman who gave up an incredibly successful and lucrative career to stay home with babies for three years, is very... triggering.

According to her Imdb page she has been working all along. Not on major movie roles but she has multiple mini series, a movie, a few TV projects etc. It doesn't seem she hasn't worked or had any jobs.

I think people view this and most situations through their own bias. You can decide that the man could only have bad intentions and be a non primary father and view everythign he says and does that that lens and the woman must of course be the nurturing doting primary parent who could only ever have good intentions. For myself, based on my life, I don't have that lens. My good and bad people / parents isn't split along the lines of men (bad) and woman (good). I have no idea what has really happened but I don't assume that since she is the woman and a mother she can do no wrong and since he is a man and father he must be at fault for everything and couldn't possibly have looked after his kids.

DP. None of the things she has done required the time commitment she previously put into her prior roles that brought her to prominence. It could be a coincidence but does appear to be more of a choice. She also hasn’t played any pregnant women to my knowledge so almost certainly wasn’t doing anything at that time.

She was pregnant and had two kids! Nothing wrong with some mat leave and taking smaller projects. I am sure a lot of wealthy people take some time off big projects while birthing children. She was still working some though. They seem to have had a nanny throughout despite her 'not working'. I don't see any evidence that this was some abusive plan of Joe forcing her to quit work and be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Although it seems they had made plans to move to the UK, no one is bound by those plans especially when a marriage breaks down. Who knows what happened that night of the big fight but it let to the end of their marriage. Of course that changes things for all of them compaired to their previous intentions.

They hadn't actually established residency yet in the UK so unlikely that intended plans will carry much sway. They spent a couple months there in late spring with her family and then the kids went on tour with Joe while Sophie filmed her show.

And they have a Sept 6th court order that the children aren't to be moved pending the next legal proceedings. She can't take them out of the country right now.

If the facts as alleged by Sophie are true -- and there are surely receipts for things like entering into a contract for the permanent home, the older daughter attending school, etc. -- then they did establish residency in the UK. Taking the girls on tour doesn't un-move them if the family had indeed moved to England, as Sophie says.

I wish more of the Florida filings were publicly available. When I look at the Florida docket, I don't see any orders from the court on it. I don't know anything about Florida family law though, so maybe there is some law that automatically comes into play upon filing, and that Joe's reps are framing as a "court order"? In any case, whatever it is is based on Joe's filing, which included a jurisdictional affidavit swearing that Florida is the kids' home state -- which seems questionable based on Sophie's filing.

His lawyer said he filed on Sept 5th and the court order from the Florida court restricting the move was Sept 6th so it seems likely they more or less happened at the same time.

They went to the UK in April / May - Sophie was starting to film in May so while it seems they did intend to move, they also were travelling all together for work. They stayed with her family May-July while she filmed her new show. Apparently they entered into contract in July for a house with a closing date of December. However they also own homes in the USA so home ownership wouldn' tbe enough to establish residency. Then it seems that Joe took the kids (and the nanny) with him in early August when they went on tour as he has a lot more time off (concerts are at night) than Sophie does while filming. She was filming in August in Spain and the UK. It seems filming ended in early September and the original plan had been she would then join him on tour. It looks like the first phase of the tour wraps up Dec 9 and then the next pahse starts at the end of February so they likely intended to move into the new house during that break.

It seems that post the fight they had agreed Sophie could come and get the kids when she was done filming in Sept versus the original plan to join him on tour, however after filing for divorce he was clearly given legal advice to keep the children in the USA while the next legal steps about custody happen. Since they have all lived in the USA for the past few years, I doubt that will be seen as abduction in any way. They own a condo in New York so they have a home there.

Yeah- if they first moved to England in April I doubt their 3 year old was starting school a month before it ended. Maybe she was enrolled somewhere for this fall where she’s obviously not attending. Sophie’s claims sound exaggerated to make it seem like they settled there. It seems like she wanted to do that, and he didn’t. And since he filed for divorce before they could settle down there, the kids haven’t spend a significant enough amount of time in the UK for it to be legally be considered their most recent established home.

It's a nursery school -- a daycare. Wouldn't really follow the school year like you're suggesting here.

Do you honestly think Sophie Turner and Joe Jonas are sending their toddlers to daycare? Lol.

I mean, Sophie alleged under penalty of perjury that "[t]he older child attended nursery school full-time in Warwickshire, England at
Stepping Stones nursery." Probably more accurate to liken it to a preschool than a daycare, but basically yes.

Did she give a time frame for this attendance? Can you link to her filing documents? I can only find comments and excerpts.

The filing doesn't give the time frame -- but based on the other facts seems likely it was during the summer term this year.

Yes, their older daughter would have turned 3 this summer. To me, that she was in preschool for whatever short period of time before her 3rd birthday, while they lived in England for a few months, while her mother worked, gives no indication that this was intended to be a permanent solution.

Sophie’s lanaguge that Joe discussed this being a forever plan only shows that she has no actual legal support - her young kids did not live there for any compelling length of time, and so the biggest thing she can say is that it was their intent to raise them there.

Honestly, big deal. Joe is not legally bound to honor that. It was a verbal agreement contingent upon them living there as a family, and the plans did not pan out when the marriage failed. Joe also stated he was fine with them being raised in both the US and the UK, and Sophie is staging an aggressive battle for the UK to be the kids primary residence. If I was him I also would not want my kids returned to the UK for an indefinite amount of time, letting the other parent establish a residence there while waiting for court dates. The whole thing is a mess and if they had two decent parents they’d mediate this out of court.

Does Sophie and Joe buying a house there not give a pretty good indication that this was intended to be a move (versus a visit)? To me, moving into a long term rental in England, sending the kids to school there, selling the Florida house, and buying a house in England pretty clearly indicates that they made a deliberate choice to move their home base to England. Seems to me that she has quite a bit more than just some future intent.

They buy houses all the time though. They lived in Miami for a bit (I imagine they bought that house during big income years for Joe to save $$$ on income tax.) their whole lifestyle is a nomadic pattern of buying luxury homes and long term rentals wherever they’re working or want to be. England is just the last place they did that. No guarantee how long they would have stayed- months, years, forever- or if they would have continued to go back and forth between the US. And I found Sophie is going to be able to prove otherwise. Her best hope in primary UK residence is a judge ruling to keep the kids with their mother, which doesn’t really happen anymore unless other parent is unfit. Realistically I think she is looking at 50/50 custody or primary US.

Joe probably realized their marriage wasn’t going to last and did not want to be stuck establishing their residence in the UK in perpetuity. I get that.

Realistically, once the kids reach school age they are going to have to attend school fully one place or the other. I see absolutely no reason why any preference would be given to the US. This will be interesting to follow.

Well, plenty of celebrity kids get pulled in and out of school based on their parents travel. Look at Angelina and brads kids. But yes, generally most kids have a home base. And it would be pretty selfish of their parents to have their kids split their lives 50/50 between continents purely out of a spite. it’s a problem that their parents can’t get on the same page.

[Anonymous]

What is with these Taylor Swift and Sophie pap walks every day now?


I am sure they will find a way to work together. It is all very fresh right now and they have a couple years until school.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Although it seems they had made plans to move to the UK, no one is bound by those plans especially when a marriage breaks down. Who knows what happened that night of the big fight but it let to the end of their marriage. Of course that changes things for all of them compaired to their previous intentions.

They hadn't actually established residency yet in the UK so unlikely that intended plans will carry much sway. They spent a couple months there in late spring with her family and then the kids went on tour with Joe while Sophie filmed her show.

And they have a Sept 6th court order that the children aren't to be moved pending the next legal proceedings. She can't take them out of the country right now.

If the facts as alleged by Sophie are true -- and there are surely receipts for things like entering into a contract for the permanent home, the older daughter attending school, etc. -- then they did establish residency in the UK. Taking the girls on tour doesn't un-move them if the family had indeed moved to England, as Sophie says.

I wish more of the Florida filings were publicly available. When I look at the Florida docket, I don't see any orders from the court on it. I don't know anything about Florida family law though, so maybe there is some law that automatically comes into play upon filing, and that Joe's reps are framing as a "court order"? In any case, whatever it is is based on Joe's filing, which included a jurisdictional affidavit swearing that Florida is the kids' home state -- which seems questionable based on Sophie's filing.

His lawyer said he filed on Sept 5th and the court order from the Florida court restricting the move was Sept 6th so it seems likely they more or less happened at the same time.

They went to the UK in April / May - Sophie was starting to film in May so while it seems they did intend to move, they also were travelling all together for work. They stayed with her family May-July while she filmed her new show. Apparently they entered into contract in July for a house with a closing date of December. However they also own homes in the USA so home ownership wouldn' tbe enough to establish residency. Then it seems that Joe took the kids (and the nanny) with him in early August when they went on tour as he has a lot more time off (concerts are at night) than Sophie does while filming. She was filming in August in Spain and the UK. It seems filming ended in early September and the original plan had been she would then join him on tour. It looks like the first phase of the tour wraps up Dec 9 and then the next pahse starts at the end of February so they likely intended to move into the new house during that break.

It seems that post the fight they had agreed Sophie could come and get the kids when she was done filming in Sept versus the original plan to join him on tour, however after filing for divorce he was clearly given legal advice to keep the children in the USA while the next legal steps about custody happen. Since they have all lived in the USA for the past few years, I doubt that will be seen as abduction in any way. They own a condo in New York so they have a home there.

Yeah- if they first moved to England in April I doubt their 3 year old was starting school a month before it ended. Maybe she was enrolled somewhere for this fall where she’s obviously not attending. Sophie’s claims sound exaggerated to make it seem like they settled there. It seems like she wanted to do that, and he didn’t. And since he filed for divorce before they could settle down there, the kids haven’t spend a significant enough amount of time in the UK for it to be legally be considered their most recent established home.

It's a nursery school -- a daycare. Wouldn't really follow the school year like you're suggesting here.

Do you honestly think Sophie Turner and Joe Jonas are sending their toddlers to daycare? Lol.

I mean, Sophie alleged under penalty of perjury that "[t]he older child attended nursery school full-time in Warwickshire, England at
Stepping Stones nursery." Probably more accurate to liken it to a preschool than a daycare, but basically yes.

Did she give a time frame for this attendance? Can you link to her filing documents? I can only find comments and excerpts.

The filing doesn't give the time frame -- but based on the other facts seems likely it was during the summer term this year.

Yes, their older daughter would have turned 3 this summer. To me, that she was in preschool for whatever short period of time before her 3rd birthday, while they lived in England for a few months, while her mother worked, gives no indication that this was intended to be a permanent solution.

Sophie’s lanaguge that Joe discussed this being a forever plan only shows that she has no actual legal support - her young kids did not live there for any compelling length of time, and so the biggest thing she can say is that it was their intent to raise them there.

Honestly, big deal. Joe is not legally bound to honor that. It was a verbal agreement contingent upon them living there as a family, and the plans did not pan out when the marriage failed. Joe also stated he was fine with them being raised in both the US and the UK, and Sophie is staging an aggressive battle for the UK to be the kids primary residence. If I was him I also would not want my kids returned to the UK for an indefinite amount of time, letting the other parent establish a residence there while waiting for court dates. The whole thing is a mess and if they had two decent parents they’d mediate this out of court.

Does Sophie and Joe buying a house there not give a pretty good indication that this was intended to be a move (versus a visit)? To me, moving into a long term rental in England, sending the kids to school there, selling the Florida house, and buying a house in England pretty clearly indicates that they made a deliberate choice to move their home base to England. Seems to me that she has quite a bit more than just some future intent.

They buy houses all the time though. They lived in Miami for a bit (I imagine they bought that house during big income years for Joe to save $$$ on income tax.) their whole lifestyle is a nomadic pattern of buying luxury homes and long term rentals wherever they’re working or want to be. England is just the last place they did that. No guarantee how long they would have stayed- months, years, forever- or if they would have continued to go back and forth between the US. And I found Sophie is going to be able to prove otherwise. Her best hope in primary UK residence is a judge ruling to keep the kids with their mother, which doesn’t really happen anymore unless other parent is unfit. Realistically I think she is looking at 50/50 custody or primary US.

Joe probably realized their marriage wasn’t going to last and did not want to be stuck establishing their residence in the UK in perpetuity. I get that.

How long they might have stayed is sort of irrelevant though. The big question in the near term is "what is the kids' home base," and if the family "moved" to England in April/May — even if dad had a big work trip shortly after that and brought along the kids — then that is likely the kids' home base. Joe, on the other hand, is saying that Florida is the kids' home base, which seems sort of ludicrous on its face given that they sold that house, and it doesn't seem likely that the kids have spent much/any time in Florida during the tour given how closely scheduled the dates are, but I haven't seen what exactly he said in the jurisdictional affidavit. But if Florida is no longer the kids' "home state," then that court flat out has no jurisdiction (with some nuance, like if one parent moves out of state with the kids, the left-behind parent can still file in that state—but again, no idea what specifically he is claiming there).

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Although it seems they had made plans to move to the UK, no one is bound by those plans especially when a marriage breaks down. Who knows what happened that night of the big fight but it let to the end of their marriage. Of course that changes things for all of them compaired to their previous intentions.

They hadn't actually established residency yet in the UK so unlikely that intended plans will carry much sway. They spent a couple months there in late spring with her family and then the kids went on tour with Joe while Sophie filmed her show.

And they have a Sept 6th court order that the children aren't to be moved pending the next legal proceedings. She can't take them out of the country right now.

If the facts as alleged by Sophie are true -- and there are surely receipts for things like entering into a contract for the permanent home, the older daughter attending school, etc. -- then they did establish residency in the UK. Taking the girls on tour doesn't un-move them if the family had indeed moved to England, as Sophie says.

I wish more of the Florida filings were publicly available. When I look at the Florida docket, I don't see any orders from the court on it. I don't know anything about Florida family law though, so maybe there is some law that automatically comes into play upon filing, and that Joe's reps are framing as a "court order"? In any case, whatever it is is based on Joe's filing, which included a jurisdictional affidavit swearing that Florida is the kids' home state -- which seems questionable based on Sophie's filing.

His lawyer said he filed on Sept 5th and the court order from the Florida court restricting the move was Sept 6th so it seems likely they more or less happened at the same time.

They went to the UK in April / May - Sophie was starting to film in May so while it seems they did intend to move, they also were travelling all together for work. They stayed with her family May-July while she filmed her new show. Apparently they entered into contract in July for a house with a closing date of December. However they also own homes in the USA so home ownership wouldn' tbe enough to establish residency. Then it seems that Joe took the kids (and the nanny) with him in early August when they went on tour as he has a lot more time off (concerts are at night) than Sophie does while filming. She was filming in August in Spain and the UK. It seems filming ended in early September and the original plan had been she would then join him on tour. It looks like the first phase of the tour wraps up Dec 9 and then the next pahse starts at the end of February so they likely intended to move into the new house during that break.

It seems that post the fight they had agreed Sophie could come and get the kids when she was done filming in Sept versus the original plan to join him on tour, however after filing for divorce he was clearly given legal advice to keep the children in the USA while the next legal steps about custody happen. Since they have all lived in the USA for the past few years, I doubt that will be seen as abduction in any way. They own a condo in New York so they have a home there.

Yeah- if they first moved to England in April I doubt their 3 year old was starting school a month before it ended. Maybe she was enrolled somewhere for this fall where she’s obviously not attending. Sophie’s claims sound exaggerated to make it seem like they settled there. It seems like she wanted to do that, and he didn’t. And since he filed for divorce before they could settle down there, the kids haven’t spend a significant enough amount of time in the UK for it to be legally be considered their most recent established home.

It's a nursery school -- a daycare. Wouldn't really follow the school year like you're suggesting here.

Do you honestly think Sophie Turner and Joe Jonas are sending their toddlers to daycare? Lol.

I mean, Sophie alleged under penalty of perjury that "[t]he older child attended nursery school full-time in Warwickshire, England at
Stepping Stones nursery." Probably more accurate to liken it to a preschool than a daycare, but basically yes.

Did she give a time frame for this attendance? Can you link to her filing documents? I can only find comments and excerpts.

The filing doesn't give the time frame -- but based on the other facts seems likely it was during the summer term this year.

Yes, their older daughter would have turned 3 this summer. To me, that she was in preschool for whatever short period of time before her 3rd birthday, while they lived in England for a few months, while her mother worked, gives no indication that this was intended to be a permanent solution.

Sophie’s lanaguge that Joe discussed this being a forever plan only shows that she has no actual legal support - her young kids did not live there for any compelling length of time, and so the biggest thing she can say is that it was their intent to raise them there.

Honestly, big deal. Joe is not legally bound to honor that. It was a verbal agreement contingent upon them living there as a family, and the plans did not pan out when the marriage failed. Joe also stated he was fine with them being raised in both the US and the UK, and Sophie is staging an aggressive battle for the UK to be the kids primary residence. If I was him I also would not want my kids returned to the UK for an indefinite amount of time, letting the other parent establish a residence there while waiting for court dates. The whole thing is a mess and if they had two decent parents they’d mediate this out of court.

Does Sophie and Joe buying a house there not give a pretty good indication that this was intended to be a move (versus a visit)? To me, moving into a long term rental in England, sending the kids to school there, selling the Florida house, and buying a house in England pretty clearly indicates that they made a deliberate choice to move their home base to England. Seems to me that she has quite a bit more than just some future intent.

They buy houses all the time though. They lived in Miami for a bit (I imagine they bought that house during big income years for Joe to save $$$ on income tax.) their whole lifestyle is a nomadic pattern of buying luxury homes and long term rentals wherever they’re working or want to be. England is just the last place they did that. No guarantee how long they would have stayed- months, years, forever- or if they would have continued to go back and forth between the US. And I found Sophie is going to be able to prove otherwise. Her best hope in primary UK residence is a judge ruling to keep the kids with their mother, which doesn’t really happen anymore unless other parent is unfit. Realistically I think she is looking at 50/50 custody or primary US.

Joe probably realized their marriage wasn’t going to last and did not want to be stuck establishing their residence in the UK in perpetuity. I get that.

How long they might have stayed is sort of irrelevant though. The big question in the near term is "what is the kids' home base," and if the family "moved" to England in April/May — even if dad had a big work trip shortly after that and brought along the kids — then that is likely the kids' home base. Joe, on the other hand, is saying that Florida is the kids' home base, which seems sort of ludicrous on its face given that they sold that house, and it doesn't seem likely that the kids have spent much/any time in Florida during the tour given how closely scheduled the dates are, but I haven't seen what exactly he said in the jurisdictional affidavit. But if Florida is no longer the kids' "home state," then that court flat out has no jurisdiction (with some nuance, like if one parent moves out of state with the kids, the left-behind parent can still file in that state—but again, no idea what specifically he is claiming there).

Right but the thing is that they don’t have a home base the way you or I do. They move around frequently. They most recently were in the UK for two months while their mother filmed there. From a legal perspective not all that different than their father taking them on tour for his work. If there is any home base, it’s the US because they spent most of their short lives here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is with these Taylor Swift and Sophie pap walks every day now?


I am sure they will find a way to work together. It is all very fresh right now and they have a couple years until school.

Sophie is certainly out and about getting photographed. Interesting that Taylor swift is inserting herself. Even though I don’t agree with Sophie’s take on this, I like that Taylor is willing to stick her neck out to support her.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Although it seems they had made plans to move to the UK, no one is bound by those plans especially when a marriage breaks down. Who knows what happened that night of the big fight but it let to the end of their marriage. Of course that changes things for all of them compaired to their previous intentions.

They hadn't actually established residency yet in the UK so unlikely that intended plans will carry much sway. They spent a couple months there in late spring with her family and then the kids went on tour with Joe while Sophie filmed her show.

And they have a Sept 6th court order that the children aren't to be moved pending the next legal proceedings. She can't take them out of the country right now.

If the facts as alleged by Sophie are true -- and there are surely receipts for things like entering into a contract for the permanent home, the older daughter attending school, etc. -- then they did establish residency in the UK. Taking the girls on tour doesn't un-move them if the family had indeed moved to England, as Sophie says.

I wish more of the Florida filings were publicly available. When I look at the Florida docket, I don't see any orders from the court on it. I don't know anything about Florida family law though, so maybe there is some law that automatically comes into play upon filing, and that Joe's reps are framing as a "court order"? In any case, whatever it is is based on Joe's filing, which included a jurisdictional affidavit swearing that Florida is the kids' home state -- which seems questionable based on Sophie's filing.

His lawyer said he filed on Sept 5th and the court order from the Florida court restricting the move was Sept 6th so it seems likely they more or less happened at the same time.

They went to the UK in April / May - Sophie was starting to film in May so while it seems they did intend to move, they also were travelling all together for work. They stayed with her family May-July while she filmed her new show. Apparently they entered into contract in July for a house with a closing date of December. However they also own homes in the USA so home ownership wouldn' tbe enough to establish residency. Then it seems that Joe took the kids (and the nanny) with him in early August when they went on tour as he has a lot more time off (concerts are at night) than Sophie does while filming. She was filming in August in Spain and the UK. It seems filming ended in early September and the original plan had been she would then join him on tour. It looks like the first phase of the tour wraps up Dec 9 and then the next pahse starts at the end of February so they likely intended to move into the new house during that break.

It seems that post the fight they had agreed Sophie could come and get the kids when she was done filming in Sept versus the original plan to join him on tour, however after filing for divorce he was clearly given legal advice to keep the children in the USA while the next legal steps about custody happen. Since they have all lived in the USA for the past few years, I doubt that will be seen as abduction in any way. They own a condo in New York so they have a home there.

Yeah- if they first moved to England in April I doubt their 3 year old was starting school a month before it ended. Maybe she was enrolled somewhere for this fall where she’s obviously not attending. Sophie’s claims sound exaggerated to make it seem like they settled there. It seems like she wanted to do that, and he didn’t. And since he filed for divorce before they could settle down there, the kids haven’t spend a significant enough amount of time in the UK for it to be legally be considered their most recent established home.

It's a nursery school -- a daycare. Wouldn't really follow the school year like you're suggesting here.

Do you honestly think Sophie Turner and Joe Jonas are sending their toddlers to daycare? Lol.

I mean, Sophie alleged under penalty of perjury that "[t]he older child attended nursery school full-time in Warwickshire, England at
Stepping Stones nursery." Probably more accurate to liken it to a preschool than a daycare, but basically yes.

Did she give a time frame for this attendance? Can you link to her filing documents? I can only find comments and excerpts.

The filing doesn't give the time frame -- but based on the other facts seems likely it was during the summer term this year.

Yes, their older daughter would have turned 3 this summer. To me, that she was in preschool for whatever short period of time before her 3rd birthday, while they lived in England for a few months, while her mother worked, gives no indication that this was intended to be a permanent solution.

Sophie’s lanaguge that Joe discussed this being a forever plan only shows that she has no actual legal support - her young kids did not live there for any compelling length of time, and so the biggest thing she can say is that it was their intent to raise them there.

Honestly, big deal. Joe is not legally bound to honor that. It was a verbal agreement contingent upon them living there as a family, and the plans did not pan out when the marriage failed. Joe also stated he was fine with them being raised in both the US and the UK, and Sophie is staging an aggressive battle for the UK to be the kids primary residence. If I was him I also would not want my kids returned to the UK for an indefinite amount of time, letting the other parent establish a residence there while waiting for court dates. The whole thing is a mess and if they had two decent parents they’d mediate this out of court.

Does Sophie and Joe buying a house there not give a pretty good indication that this was intended to be a move (versus a visit)? To me, moving into a long term rental in England, sending the kids to school there, selling the Florida house, and buying a house in England pretty clearly indicates that they made a deliberate choice to move their home base to England. Seems to me that she has quite a bit more than just some future intent.

They buy houses all the time though. They lived in Miami for a bit (I imagine they bought that house during big income years for Joe to save $$$ on income tax.) their whole lifestyle is a nomadic pattern of buying luxury homes and long term rentals wherever they’re working or want to be. England is just the last place they did that. No guarantee how long they would have stayed- months, years, forever- or if they would have continued to go back and forth between the US. And I found Sophie is going to be able to prove otherwise. Her best hope in primary UK residence is a judge ruling to keep the kids with their mother, which doesn’t really happen anymore unless other parent is unfit. Realistically I think she is looking at 50/50 custody or primary US.

Joe probably realized their marriage wasn’t going to last and did not want to be stuck establishing their residence in the UK in perpetuity. I get that.

How long they might have stayed is sort of irrelevant though. The big question in the near term is "what is the kids' home base," and if the family "moved" to England in April/May — even if dad had a big work trip shortly after that and brought along the kids — then that is likely the kids' home base. Joe, on the other hand, is saying that Florida is the kids' home base, which seems sort of ludicrous on its face given that they sold that house, and it doesn't seem likely that the kids have spent much/any time in Florida during the tour given how closely scheduled the dates are, but I haven't seen what exactly he said in the jurisdictional affidavit. But if Florida is no longer the kids' "home state," then that court flat out has no jurisdiction (with some nuance, like if one parent moves out of state with the kids, the left-behind parent can still file in that state—but again, no idea what specifically he is claiming there).

Right but the thing is that they don’t have a home base the way you or I do. They move around frequently. They most recently were in the UK for two months while their mother filmed there. From a legal perspective not all that different than their father taking them on tour for his work. If there is any home base, it’s the US because they spent most of their short lives here.

I would agree if their time in the US had been spent primarily in one specific location, but it wasn't. It doesn't appear they stayed in any one place very long. I don't think Joe's argument is stronger than Sophie's. He currently appears to be living out of random hotels.

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Anonymous wrote:She's made it clear she prefers to be in the UK. I wonder if he'll let her settle there with the kids. Probably not, which is understandable. So tough when kids are involved.

From Reddit:

From my point of view, it's a good strategy. He files for joint, and if she wants to go back to the UK, she has to file for primary. He then looks like, oh I'm super reasonable and want us both to have equal time, but she's unreasonable and wants to move the kids to another country away from their loving father who just wants equal time. It's not a bad legal strategy, or PR strategy.

The fact that his side has already leaked the existence of a pre-nup means that the Jonas family is preparing for war. They are going to demand 75% custody, imho.

His leaks seemed designed to prevent her making the case for primary. He knows she wants to be in the UK, and will block it. Although I'm generally sympathetic to her, I do think both parents have rights and it's best for the children to have equal access to both when feasible. If their base is established as Miami, I suppose she needs to accept that. Like when Angelina Jolie made it clear she wanted to move to Europe, and Brad Pitt blocked it. Again, tough but understandable when kids are involved.

Why I would never marry a non-American. I’m fine with someone of a different cultural background, but needs to be settled in the US including extended family.

Yes, and I've taught this to my kids.

[Anonymous]

Since I made fun of Joe's brunch pics, I think fairness requires that I make fun of these a bit too: https://www.tmz.com/2023/09/21/sophie-turner-joe-jonas-seen-daughter-suing-over-custody/. Backgrid again.

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Anonymous wrote:What is with these Taylor Swift and Sophie pap walks every day now?


I am sure they will find a way to work together. It is all very fresh right now and they have a couple years until school.

Sophie is certainly out and about getting photographed. Interesting that Taylor swift is inserting herself. Even though I don’t agree with Sophie’s take on this, I like that Taylor is willing to stick her neck out to support her.

I wonder if Sophie will get all the same hate as Joe got for being photgraphed with his kids. She is also now out and about with her kids being papped. Cue the abuse towards her now I guess for doing the same thing he did.

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Anonymous wrote:What is with these Taylor Swift and Sophie pap walks every day now?


I am sure they will find a way to work together. It is all very fresh right now and they have a couple years until school.

Sophie is certainly out and about getting photographed. Interesting that Taylor swift is inserting herself. Even though I don’t agree with Sophie’s take on this, I like that Taylor is willing to stick her neck out to support her.

I wonder if Sophie will get all the same hate as Joe got for being photgraphed with his kids. She is also now out and about with her kids being papped. Cue the abuse towards her now I guess for doing the same thing he did.

Considering that they literally have NO US home and are living out of hotels, I can see why they'd both need to get out and about to avoid cabin fever. Imagine all that money and nowhere to live (except in the UK, where he's not letting her go.)

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:What is with these Taylor Swift and Sophie pap walks every day now?


I am sure they will find a way to work together. It is all very fresh right now and they have a couple years until school.

Sophie is certainly out and about getting photographed. Interesting that Taylor swift is inserting herself. Even though I don’t agree with Sophie’s take on this, I like that Taylor is willing to stick her neck out to support her.

I strongly disagree with Taylor inserting herself into this. Minor children are involved, these parents needs cool heads advising them.

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Anonymous wrote:Although it seems they had made plans to move to the UK, no one is bound by those plans especially when a marriage breaks down. Who knows what happened that night of the big fight but it let to the end of their marriage. Of course that changes things for all of them compaired to their previous intentions.

They hadn't actually established residency yet in the UK so unlikely that intended plans will carry much sway. They spent a couple months there in late spring with her family and then the kids went on tour with Joe while Sophie filmed her show.

And they have a Sept 6th court order that the children aren't to be moved pending the next legal proceedings. She can't take them out of the country right now.

If the facts as alleged by Sophie are true -- and there are surely receipts for things like entering into a contract for the permanent home, the older daughter attending school, etc. -- then they did establish residency in the UK. Taking the girls on tour doesn't un-move them if the family had indeed moved to England, as Sophie says.

I wish more of the Florida filings were publicly available. When I look at the Florida docket, I don't see any orders from the court on it. I don't know anything about Florida family law though, so maybe there is some law that automatically comes into play upon filing, and that Joe's reps are framing as a "court order"? In any case, whatever it is is based on Joe's filing, which included a jurisdictional affidavit swearing that Florida is the kids' home state -- which seems questionable based on Sophie's filing.

His lawyer said he filed on Sept 5th and the court order from the Florida court restricting the move was Sept 6th so it seems likely they more or less happened at the same time.

They went to the UK in April / May - Sophie was starting to film in May so while it seems they did intend to move, they also were travelling all together for work. They stayed with her family May-July while she filmed her new show. Apparently they entered into contract in July for a house with a closing date of December. However they also own homes in the USA so home ownership wouldn' tbe enough to establish residency. Then it seems that Joe took the kids (and the nanny) with him in early August when they went on tour as he has a lot more time off (concerts are at night) than Sophie does while filming. She was filming in August in Spain and the UK. It seems filming ended in early September and the original plan had been she would then join him on tour. It looks like the first phase of the tour wraps up Dec 9 and then the next pahse starts at the end of February so they likely intended to move into the new house during that break.

It seems that post the fight they had agreed Sophie could come and get the kids when she was done filming in Sept versus the original plan to join him on tour, however after filing for divorce he was clearly given legal advice to keep the children in the USA while the next legal steps about custody happen. Since they have all lived in the USA for the past few years, I doubt that will be seen as abduction in any way. They own a condo in New York so they have a home there.

Yeah- if they first moved to England in April I doubt their 3 year old was starting school a month before it ended. Maybe she was enrolled somewhere for this fall where she’s obviously not attending. Sophie’s claims sound exaggerated to make it seem like they settled there. It seems like she wanted to do that, and he didn’t. And since he filed for divorce before they could settle down there, the kids haven’t spend a significant enough amount of time in the UK for it to be legally be considered their most recent established home.

It's a nursery school -- a daycare. Wouldn't really follow the school year like you're suggesting here.

Do you honestly think Sophie Turner and Joe Jonas are sending their toddlers to daycare? Lol.

I mean, Sophie alleged under penalty of perjury that "[t]he older child attended nursery school full-time in Warwickshire, England at
Stepping Stones nursery." Probably more accurate to liken it to a preschool than a daycare, but basically yes.

Did she give a time frame for this attendance? Can you link to her filing documents? I can only find comments and excerpts.

The filing doesn't give the time frame -- but based on the other facts seems likely it was during the summer term this year.

Yes, their older daughter would have turned 3 this summer. To me, that she was in preschool for whatever short period of time before her 3rd birthday, while they lived in England for a few months, while her mother worked, gives no indication that this was intended to be a permanent solution.

Sophie’s lanaguge that Joe discussed this being a forever plan only shows that she has no actual legal support - her young kids did not live there for any compelling length of time, and so the biggest thing she can say is that it was their intent to raise them there.

Honestly, big deal. Joe is not legally bound to honor that. It was a verbal agreement contingent upon them living there as a family, and the plans did not pan out when the marriage failed. Joe also stated he was fine with them being raised in both the US and the UK, and Sophie is staging an aggressive battle for the UK to be the kids primary residence. If I was him I also would not want my kids returned to the UK for an indefinite amount of time, letting the other parent establish a residence there while waiting for court dates. The whole thing is a mess and if they had two decent parents they’d mediate this out of court.

Does Sophie and Joe buying a house there not give a pretty good indication that this was intended to be a move (versus a visit)? To me, moving into a long term rental in England, sending the kids to school there, selling the Florida house, and buying a house in England pretty clearly indicates that they made a deliberate choice to move their home base to England. Seems to me that she has quite a bit more than just some future intent.

They buy houses all the time though. They lived in Miami for a bit (I imagine they bought that house during big income years for Joe to save $$$ on income tax.) their whole lifestyle is a nomadic pattern of buying luxury homes and long term rentals wherever they’re working or want to be. England is just the last place they did that. No guarantee how long they would have stayed- months, years, forever- or if they would have continued to go back and forth between the US. And I found Sophie is going to be able to prove otherwise. Her best hope in primary UK residence is a judge ruling to keep the kids with their mother, which doesn’t really happen anymore unless other parent is unfit. Realistically I think she is looking at 50/50 custody or primary US.

Joe probably realized their marriage wasn’t going to last and did not want to be stuck establishing their residence in the UK in perpetuity. I get that.

How long they might have stayed is sort of irrelevant though. The big question in the near term is "what is the kids' home base," and if the family "moved" to England in April/May — even if dad had a big work trip shortly after that and brought along the kids — then that is likely the kids' home base. Joe, on the other hand, is saying that Florida is the kids' home base, which seems sort of ludicrous on its face given that they sold that house, and it doesn't seem likely that the kids have spent much/any time in Florida during the tour given how closely scheduled the dates are, but I haven't seen what exactly he said in the jurisdictional affidavit. But if Florida is no longer the kids' "home state," then that court flat out has no jurisdiction (with some nuance, like if one parent moves out of state with the kids, the left-behind parent can still file in that state—but again, no idea what specifically he is claiming there).

Right but the thing is that they don’t have a home base the way you or I do. They move around frequently. They most recently were in the UK for two months while their mother filmed there. From a legal perspective not all that different than their father taking them on tour for his work. If there is any home base, it’s the US because they spent most of their short lives here.

I would agree if their time in the US had been spent primarily in one specific location, but it wasn't. It doesn't appear they stayed in any one place very long. I don't think Joe's argument is stronger than Sophie's. He currently appears to be living out of random hotels.

It does not seem like they were on one location in the UK either. If anything you might have to look at how long they were in either country, not a specific place.

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Anonymous wrote:She cheated, he’s done.

Sounds like it. That’s so sad. She was so young when they started dating and they settled down so quickly. What a mess for everyone involved.

Liking to party does not equate to cheating. This from a guy who's touring, late-night show after late-night show? Like he's home with their kids at the dinner table like a proper househusband. Please.

I think it was the ‘irretrievably broken’ statement that alludes to cheating. Agree both of them are likely not very stable, but it has to be something dramatic for him to actually file, considering their family’s persona of marriage and stability.

Also the reports about the ring camera. I’m guessing she brought some guy home or got caught on a phone call.

What are the ring camera reports??

Page Six. Again sources from his camp with no specific details or evidence. Be skeptical.

Agreed. If the evidence of her partying is a few pictures of her looking happy (and not wasted or even particularly impaired) at a wrap party for work, then I expect the "ring camera" evidence is an image of her coming home in a cab because she responsibly didn't think she should drive home after drinking.

You know, parents are allowed to drink and have fun. That's not incompatible with being a parent. What kind of person wants to prevent their spouse from enjoying themselves every now and then. This is a woman whose been at home with babies for actual years, and she's letting her hair down a little. It's not scandalous.

You have absolutely no idea what happened or what is on the "ring camera." You sound a little foolish.