Sophie Turner and Joe Jonas headed to divorce

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Accordint to past social media, the Jonas Brothers started rtour rehearsals in the USA for the tour at the end of June / beginning of July so it seems Joe likely brought the kids with him then - which aligns with his having the kids for 3 months statement. The tour started August 12 but lots of social media posts in July about the rehearsals.

According to Sophie's filing, Joe was in England until July 31st, when he left with the kids for his tour. It's possible he went to those rehearsals in June/July, but unless Sophie is flat out lying in her filing (very unlikely), he must have just come out for a few days here and there. Even if he brought the kids with him on some or all of those trips (unlikely given their ages), that's not the same as the kids being in his primary custody away from Sophie for 3 months. Even if she was working, if he was in England with the kids, they would be in their joint custody during that time.

And here is where I note that it's stuff like this that makes me pro-Sophie in this matter because Joe is trying to make it sound like, because Sophie was working for a few months and he spent a month or two as the primary parent during the most intense part of her shoot, he has somehow become the primary parent forever and Sophie has abdicated her responsibilities towards the kids.

This is a woman who literally did not work for 3 years while having these kids, despite working in an industry where giving up 3 years of your late 20s to stay home is worth a LOT of money, and having a career where ordinarily she would have been seeking to capitalize on her GoT exposure more aggressively. The fact that he seems to be using the only job she has take since getting pregnant with their eldest as evidence that she's just not that into being a mom anymore, while he is constantly touring with two different bands, is the sort of think that makes me really angry. That's why you see so many women talking about this case with some passion. The timing of the divorce and the way Joe seems to be treating a woman who gave up an incredibly successful and lucrative career to stay home with babies for three years, is very... triggering.

According to her Imdb page she has been working all along. Not on major movie roles but she has multiple mini series, a movie, a few TV projects etc. It doesn't seem she hasn't worked or had any jobs.

I think people view this and most situations through their own bias. You can decide that the man could only have bad intentions and be a non primary father and view everythign he says and does that that lens and the woman must of course be the nurturing doting primary parent who could only ever have good intentions. For myself, based on my life, I don't have that lens. My good and bad people / parents isn't split along the lines of men (bad) and woman (good). I have no idea what has really happened but I don't assume that since she is the woman and a mother she can do no wrong and since he is a man and father he must be at fault for everything and couldn't possibly have looked after his kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The September 6th order requiring the kids to stay in the US was almost certainly written by Joe's legal team with boilerplate language about what the parties can and can't do pending a hearing. That's standard procedure with an initial filing as it allows the judge to simply review and sign, since one day is not enough time for a judge to make a merit-based determination on what should happen with the kids. It's just an order that will say "party A is filing for divorce, party B has x days to respond, a hearing will be scheduled according to [whatever procedure], in the meantime, the parties must/must not do the following [including leave the country with the kids]." It would be standard procedure in large part to prevent a child abduction by a disgruntled spouse, since sadly and of course sometimes that's what happens when someone files for divorce.

That order will last, at most, a few weeks, and I find it highly unlikely that Sophie, a UK citizen, will not be permitted to take her children, also UK citizens, back to the UK within a very short period of time, once it is clear that she will be complying with court orders and has no intention of denying Joe access to the children or giving him custody according to any agreed upon arrangement. The kids could be in the UK as early as October.

I also think it's highly likely the Florida case will be soon remanded to SDNY, where Sophie filed, given that Joe failed to establish residency in Florida for purposes of custody proceedings, neither party resides or owns property in Florida, and both parties are currently located in NY. Plus NY is more accessible from London and, as these proceedings are likely to drag on a bit based on the initial behavior of the participants, it is likely the kids will be moving back and forth between the US and UK and NY makes more sense in terms of limiting the burden on the kids.

According to the statement from Jonas's lawyer, there was a meeting between the two sides and the understanding was that cusotdy would be shared and each would have their custody time in their respective countries. According to the statement, the day after that meeting Sophie filed suit alleging abduction and also stating she ended to take the children to the UK permanently. It seems both teams are doing legal wrangling here. This is the statement from Joe's team.

'After multiple conversations with Sophie, Joe initiated divorce proceedings in Florida, as Florida is the appropriate jurisdiction for the case. Sophie was aware that Joe was going to file for divorce. The Florida Court has already entered an order that restricts both parents from relocating the children. Sophie was served with this order on September 6, 2023, more than two weeks ago.

'Joe and Sophie had a cordial meeting this past Sunday in New York, when Sophie came to New York to be with the kids. They have been with her since that meeting. Joe’s impression of the meeting was that they had reached an understanding that they would work together towards an amicable co-parenting setup.

'Less than 24 hours later, Sophie advised that she wanted to take the children permanently to the UK. Thereafter, she demanded via this filing that Joe hand over the children’s passports so that she could take them out of the country immediately. If he complies, Joe will be in violation of the Florida Court order.

'Joe is seeking shared parenting with the kids so that they are raised by both their mother and father, and is of course also okay with the kids being raised both in the U.S. and the UK. The children were born in the U.S. and have spent the vast majority of their lives in the U.S. They are American citizens.

'This is an unfortunate legal disagreement about a marriage that is sadly ending. When language like “abduction” is used, it is misleading at best, and a serious abuse of the legal system at worst. The children were not abducted. After being in Joe’s care for the past three months at the agreement of both parties, the children are currently with their mother. Sophie is making this claim only to move the divorce proceedings to the UK and to remove the children from the U.S. permanently.

'Joe has already disavowed any and all statements purportedly made on his behalf that were disparaging of Sophie. They were made without his approval and are not consistent with his views. His wish is that Sophie reconsider her harsh legal position and move forward in a more constructive and private manner. His only concern is the well-being of his children.'

That goes a lot further than what the statement actually says about the meeting, which is that "Joe’s impression of the meeting was that they had reached an understanding that they would work together towards an amicable co-parenting setup."

Speaking of the statement, the idea that Joe would be violating the court order by giving Sophie the passports sounds pretty silly. First, I have to think the "order," such as it is, would only prevent one of the parents from relocating the children without the permission of the other. Surely it doesn't say the children cannot leave even with the permission of both parents? But even if it does, I don't see how Joe providing the passports to Sophie would violate any order.

I also continue to wonder about what exactly this "order" says. The kids aren't in Florida, they are in New York with Sophie right now. Does the Florida "order" say the kids have to stay in New York? Can they go anywhere in the U.S. -- just not back to England? I think these orders are mostly to keep the parents/kids in the home state while the divorce is hammered out, so I have no idea how it operates with the kids already in an entirely different state.

If Sophie is claiming that Joe abducted the children while the kids are physically with her is that a mark against her? Doesn’t she have UK passport for the kids? If the other parent does not give her permission to take the kids out of the country does it really matter if she has their passport? She is not going to legally remove a US citizen out of the country without the other parents consent.

Sophie didn't claim Joe abducted the kids while they were with her. You have to read her allegation in total, but she's actually saying that he removed the kids from the UK against her wishes, and that his failure to return them to the UK as previously planned is the abduction. Essentially she's arguing that he took them out of the UK on false pretenses (claiming they were just visiting while he was on tour), but then while in the US, filed for divorce and now won't allow them to return. I don't think it's a slam dunk case but it's a nuanced argument with some merit.

Yeah, the "abduction" terminology is basically a function of the laws that give rise to her claims -- the Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction and the International Child Abduction Remedies Act. She didn't put out an amber alert or anything. She says explicitly in her filing that she currently has physical custody of the children in New York, and her claim is that Joe is wrongfully retaining the children in the U.S. by not giving her their passports.

I am just a single national, so I don't know how using two passports works, but for all I know Joe could have both the UK and US passports for the girls from taking them over to the U.S. in July. Plus this state department website (https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/Advice-about-Possible-Loss-of-US-Nationality-Dual-Nationality/Dual-Nationality.html#:~:text=U.S.%20nationals%2C%20including%20U.S.%20dual,enter%20and%20leave%20that%20country) says that dual nationals have to use their US passport to enter and leave the country, so it seems like even if Sophie has the UK passports she would still need the US passports to take the girls out of the country.

[Anonymous]

He has said he has no objections to the kids being raised in the US and UK. Sophie says she wants the kids in the UK. Using language like “making England their forever home” makes me doubt that the issue of where they will reside was a done deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Although it seems they had made plans to move to the UK, no one is bound by those plans especially when a marriage breaks down. Who knows what happened that night of the big fight but it let to the end of their marriage. Of course that changes things for all of them compaired to their previous intentions.

They hadn't actually established residency yet in the UK so unlikely that intended plans will carry much sway. They spent a couple months there in late spring with her family and then the kids went on tour with Joe while Sophie filmed her show.

And they have a Sept 6th court order that the children aren't to be moved pending the next legal proceedings. She can't take them out of the country right now.

If the facts as alleged by Sophie are true -- and there are surely receipts for things like entering into a contract for the permanent home, the older daughter attending school, etc. -- then they did establish residency in the UK. Taking the girls on tour doesn't un-move them if the family had indeed moved to England, as Sophie says.

I wish more of the Florida filings were publicly available. When I look at the Florida docket, I don't see any orders from the court on it. I don't know anything about Florida family law though, so maybe there is some law that automatically comes into play upon filing, and that Joe's reps are framing as a "court order"? In any case, whatever it is is based on Joe's filing, which included a jurisdictional affidavit swearing that Florida is the kids' home state -- which seems questionable based on Sophie's filing.

His lawyer said he filed on Sept 5th and the court order from the Florida court restricting the move was Sept 6th so it seems likely they more or less happened at the same time.

They went to the UK in April / May - Sophie was starting to film in May so while it seems they did intend to move, they also were travelling all together for work. They stayed with her family May-July while she filmed her new show. Apparently they entered into contract in July for a house with a closing date of December. However they also own homes in the USA so home ownership wouldn' tbe enough to establish residency. Then it seems that Joe took the kids (and the nanny) with him in early August when they went on tour as he has a lot more time off (concerts are at night) than Sophie does while filming. She was filming in August in Spain and the UK. It seems filming ended in early September and the original plan had been she would then join him on tour. It looks like the first phase of the tour wraps up Dec 9 and then the next pahse starts at the end of February so they likely intended to move into the new house during that break.

It seems that post the fight they had agreed Sophie could come and get the kids when she was done filming in Sept versus the original plan to join him on tour, however after filing for divorce he was clearly given legal advice to keep the children in the USA while the next legal steps about custody happen. Since they have all lived in the USA for the past few years, I doubt that will be seen as abduction in any way. They own a condo in New York so they have a home there.

Yeah- if they first moved to England in April I doubt their 3 year old was starting school a month before it ended. Maybe she was enrolled somewhere for this fall where she’s obviously not attending. Sophie’s claims sound exaggerated to make it seem like they settled there. It seems like she wanted to do that, and he didn’t. And since he filed for divorce before they could settle down there, the kids haven’t spend a significant enough amount of time in the UK for it to be legally be considered their most recent established home.

It's a nursery school -- a daycare. Wouldn't really follow the school year like you're suggesting here.

Do you honestly think Sophie Turner and Joe Jonas are sending their toddlers to daycare? Lol.

I mean, Sophie alleged under penalty of perjury that "[t]he older child attended nursery school full-time in Warwickshire, England at
Stepping Stones nursery." Probably more accurate to liken it to a preschool than a daycare, but basically yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Although it seems they had made plans to move to the UK, no one is bound by those plans especially when a marriage breaks down. Who knows what happened that night of the big fight but it let to the end of their marriage. Of course that changes things for all of them compaired to their previous intentions.

They hadn't actually established residency yet in the UK so unlikely that intended plans will carry much sway. They spent a couple months there in late spring with her family and then the kids went on tour with Joe while Sophie filmed her show.

And they have a Sept 6th court order that the children aren't to be moved pending the next legal proceedings. She can't take them out of the country right now.

If the facts as alleged by Sophie are true -- and there are surely receipts for things like entering into a contract for the permanent home, the older daughter attending school, etc. -- then they did establish residency in the UK. Taking the girls on tour doesn't un-move them if the family had indeed moved to England, as Sophie says.

I wish more of the Florida filings were publicly available. When I look at the Florida docket, I don't see any orders from the court on it. I don't know anything about Florida family law though, so maybe there is some law that automatically comes into play upon filing, and that Joe's reps are framing as a "court order"? In any case, whatever it is is based on Joe's filing, which included a jurisdictional affidavit swearing that Florida is the kids' home state -- which seems questionable based on Sophie's filing.

His lawyer said he filed on Sept 5th and the court order from the Florida court restricting the move was Sept 6th so it seems likely they more or less happened at the same time.

They went to the UK in April / May - Sophie was starting to film in May so while it seems they did intend to move, they also were travelling all together for work. They stayed with her family May-July while she filmed her new show. Apparently they entered into contract in July for a house with a closing date of December. However they also own homes in the USA so home ownership wouldn' tbe enough to establish residency. Then it seems that Joe took the kids (and the nanny) with him in early August when they went on tour as he has a lot more time off (concerts are at night) than Sophie does while filming. She was filming in August in Spain and the UK. It seems filming ended in early September and the original plan had been she would then join him on tour. It looks like the first phase of the tour wraps up Dec 9 and then the next pahse starts at the end of February so they likely intended to move into the new house during that break.

It seems that post the fight they had agreed Sophie could come and get the kids when she was done filming in Sept versus the original plan to join him on tour, however after filing for divorce he was clearly given legal advice to keep the children in the USA while the next legal steps about custody happen. Since they have all lived in the USA for the past few years, I doubt that will be seen as abduction in any way. They own a condo in New York so they have a home there.

Yeah- if they first moved to England in April I doubt their 3 year old was starting school a month before it ended. Maybe she was enrolled somewhere for this fall where she’s obviously not attending. Sophie’s claims sound exaggerated to make it seem like they settled there. It seems like she wanted to do that, and he didn’t. And since he filed for divorce before they could settle down there, the kids haven’t spend a significant enough amount of time in the UK for it to be legally be considered their most recent established home.

It's a nursery school -- a daycare. Wouldn't really follow the school year like you're suggesting here.

Do you honestly think Sophie Turner and Joe Jonas are sending their toddlers to daycare? Lol.

I mean, Sophie alleged under penalty of perjury that "[t]he older child attended nursery school full-time in Warwickshire, England at
Stepping Stones nursery." Probably more accurate to liken it to a preschool than a daycare, but basically yes.

Did she give a time frame for this attendance? Can you link to her filing documents? I can only find comments and excerpts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Although it seems they had made plans to move to the UK, no one is bound by those plans especially when a marriage breaks down. Who knows what happened that night of the big fight but it let to the end of their marriage. Of course that changes things for all of them compaired to their previous intentions.

They hadn't actually established residency yet in the UK so unlikely that intended plans will carry much sway. They spent a couple months there in late spring with her family and then the kids went on tour with Joe while Sophie filmed her show.

And they have a Sept 6th court order that the children aren't to be moved pending the next legal proceedings. She can't take them out of the country right now.

If the facts as alleged by Sophie are true -- and there are surely receipts for things like entering into a contract for the permanent home, the older daughter attending school, etc. -- then they did establish residency in the UK. Taking the girls on tour doesn't un-move them if the family had indeed moved to England, as Sophie says.

I wish more of the Florida filings were publicly available. When I look at the Florida docket, I don't see any orders from the court on it. I don't know anything about Florida family law though, so maybe there is some law that automatically comes into play upon filing, and that Joe's reps are framing as a "court order"? In any case, whatever it is is based on Joe's filing, which included a jurisdictional affidavit swearing that Florida is the kids' home state -- which seems questionable based on Sophie's filing.

His lawyer said he filed on Sept 5th and the court order from the Florida court restricting the move was Sept 6th so it seems likely they more or less happened at the same time.

They went to the UK in April / May - Sophie was starting to film in May so while it seems they did intend to move, they also were travelling all together for work. They stayed with her family May-July while she filmed her new show. Apparently they entered into contract in July for a house with a closing date of December. However they also own homes in the USA so home ownership wouldn' tbe enough to establish residency. Then it seems that Joe took the kids (and the nanny) with him in early August when they went on tour as he has a lot more time off (concerts are at night) than Sophie does while filming. She was filming in August in Spain and the UK. It seems filming ended in early September and the original plan had been she would then join him on tour. It looks like the first phase of the tour wraps up Dec 9 and then the next pahse starts at the end of February so they likely intended to move into the new house during that break.

It seems that post the fight they had agreed Sophie could come and get the kids when she was done filming in Sept versus the original plan to join him on tour, however after filing for divorce he was clearly given legal advice to keep the children in the USA while the next legal steps about custody happen. Since they have all lived in the USA for the past few years, I doubt that will be seen as abduction in any way. They own a condo in New York so they have a home there.

Yeah- if they first moved to England in April I doubt their 3 year old was starting school a month before it ended. Maybe she was enrolled somewhere for this fall where she’s obviously not attending. Sophie’s claims sound exaggerated to make it seem like they settled there. It seems like she wanted to do that, and he didn’t. And since he filed for divorce before they could settle down there, the kids haven’t spend a significant enough amount of time in the UK for it to be legally be considered their most recent established home.

It's a nursery school -- a daycare. Wouldn't really follow the school year like you're suggesting here.

Do you honestly think Sophie Turner and Joe Jonas are sending their toddlers to daycare? Lol.

I mean, Sophie alleged under penalty of perjury that "[t]he older child attended nursery school full-time in Warwickshire, England at
Stepping Stones nursery." Probably more accurate to liken it to a preschool than a daycare, but basically yes.

Did she give a time frame for this attendance? Can you link to her filing documents? I can only find comments and excerpts.

Sophie’s filing:
https://www.scribd.com/document/672750407/Sophie-Turner-Joe-Jonas

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Although it seems they had made plans to move to the UK, no one is bound by those plans especially when a marriage breaks down. Who knows what happened that night of the big fight but it let to the end of their marriage. Of course that changes things for all of them compaired to their previous intentions.

They hadn't actually established residency yet in the UK so unlikely that intended plans will carry much sway. They spent a couple months there in late spring with her family and then the kids went on tour with Joe while Sophie filmed her show.

And they have a Sept 6th court order that the children aren't to be moved pending the next legal proceedings. She can't take them out of the country right now.

If the facts as alleged by Sophie are true -- and there are surely receipts for things like entering into a contract for the permanent home, the older daughter attending school, etc. -- then they did establish residency in the UK. Taking the girls on tour doesn't un-move them if the family had indeed moved to England, as Sophie says.

I wish more of the Florida filings were publicly available. When I look at the Florida docket, I don't see any orders from the court on it. I don't know anything about Florida family law though, so maybe there is some law that automatically comes into play upon filing, and that Joe's reps are framing as a "court order"? In any case, whatever it is is based on Joe's filing, which included a jurisdictional affidavit swearing that Florida is the kids' home state -- which seems questionable based on Sophie's filing.

His lawyer said he filed on Sept 5th and the court order from the Florida court restricting the move was Sept 6th so it seems likely they more or less happened at the same time.

They went to the UK in April / May - Sophie was starting to film in May so while it seems they did intend to move, they also were travelling all together for work. They stayed with her family May-July while she filmed her new show. Apparently they entered into contract in July for a house with a closing date of December. However they also own homes in the USA so home ownership wouldn' tbe enough to establish residency. Then it seems that Joe took the kids (and the nanny) with him in early August when they went on tour as he has a lot more time off (concerts are at night) than Sophie does while filming. She was filming in August in Spain and the UK. It seems filming ended in early September and the original plan had been she would then join him on tour. It looks like the first phase of the tour wraps up Dec 9 and then the next pahse starts at the end of February so they likely intended to move into the new house during that break.

It seems that post the fight they had agreed Sophie could come and get the kids when she was done filming in Sept versus the original plan to join him on tour, however after filing for divorce he was clearly given legal advice to keep the children in the USA while the next legal steps about custody happen. Since they have all lived in the USA for the past few years, I doubt that will be seen as abduction in any way. They own a condo in New York so they have a home there.

Yeah- if they first moved to England in April I doubt their 3 year old was starting school a month before it ended. Maybe she was enrolled somewhere for this fall where she’s obviously not attending. Sophie’s claims sound exaggerated to make it seem like they settled there. It seems like she wanted to do that, and he didn’t. And since he filed for divorce before they could settle down there, the kids haven’t spend a significant enough amount of time in the UK for it to be legally be considered their most recent established home.

It's a nursery school -- a daycare. Wouldn't really follow the school year like you're suggesting here.

Do you honestly think Sophie Turner and Joe Jonas are sending their toddlers to daycare? Lol.

I mean, Sophie alleged under penalty of perjury that "[t]he older child attended nursery school full-time in Warwickshire, England at
Stepping Stones nursery." Probably more accurate to liken it to a preschool than a daycare, but basically yes.

Did she give a time frame for this attendance? Can you link to her filing documents? I can only find comments and excerpts.

The filing doesn't give the time frame -- but based on the other facts seems likely it was during the summer term this year.

[Anonymous]

Things are getting juicy. I knew this was going to happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Although it seems they had made plans to move to the UK, no one is bound by those plans especially when a marriage breaks down. Who knows what happened that night of the big fight but it let to the end of their marriage. Of course that changes things for all of them compaired to their previous intentions.

They hadn't actually established residency yet in the UK so unlikely that intended plans will carry much sway. They spent a couple months there in late spring with her family and then the kids went on tour with Joe while Sophie filmed her show.

And they have a Sept 6th court order that the children aren't to be moved pending the next legal proceedings. She can't take them out of the country right now.

If the facts as alleged by Sophie are true -- and there are surely receipts for things like entering into a contract for the permanent home, the older daughter attending school, etc. -- then they did establish residency in the UK. Taking the girls on tour doesn't un-move them if the family had indeed moved to England, as Sophie says.

I wish more of the Florida filings were publicly available. When I look at the Florida docket, I don't see any orders from the court on it. I don't know anything about Florida family law though, so maybe there is some law that automatically comes into play upon filing, and that Joe's reps are framing as a "court order"? In any case, whatever it is is based on Joe's filing, which included a jurisdictional affidavit swearing that Florida is the kids' home state -- which seems questionable based on Sophie's filing.

His lawyer said he filed on Sept 5th and the court order from the Florida court restricting the move was Sept 6th so it seems likely they more or less happened at the same time.

They went to the UK in April / May - Sophie was starting to film in May so while it seems they did intend to move, they also were travelling all together for work. They stayed with her family May-July while she filmed her new show. Apparently they entered into contract in July for a house with a closing date of December. However they also own homes in the USA so home ownership wouldn' tbe enough to establish residency. Then it seems that Joe took the kids (and the nanny) with him in early August when they went on tour as he has a lot more time off (concerts are at night) than Sophie does while filming. She was filming in August in Spain and the UK. It seems filming ended in early September and the original plan had been she would then join him on tour. It looks like the first phase of the tour wraps up Dec 9 and then the next pahse starts at the end of February so they likely intended to move into the new house during that break.

It seems that post the fight they had agreed Sophie could come and get the kids when she was done filming in Sept versus the original plan to join him on tour, however after filing for divorce he was clearly given legal advice to keep the children in the USA while the next legal steps about custody happen. Since they have all lived in the USA for the past few years, I doubt that will be seen as abduction in any way. They own a condo in New York so they have a home there.

Yeah- if they first moved to England in April I doubt their 3 year old was starting school a month before it ended. Maybe she was enrolled somewhere for this fall where she’s obviously not attending. Sophie’s claims sound exaggerated to make it seem like they settled there. It seems like she wanted to do that, and he didn’t. And since he filed for divorce before they could settle down there, the kids haven’t spend a significant enough amount of time in the UK for it to be legally be considered their most recent established home.

It's a nursery school -- a daycare. Wouldn't really follow the school year like you're suggesting here.

Do you honestly think Sophie Turner and Joe Jonas are sending their toddlers to daycare? Lol.

I mean, Sophie alleged under penalty of perjury that "[t]he older child attended nursery school full-time in Warwickshire, England at
Stepping Stones nursery." Probably more accurate to liken it to a preschool than a daycare, but basically yes.

Did she give a time frame for this attendance? Can you link to her filing documents? I can only find comments and excerpts.

The filing doesn't give the time frame -- but based on the other facts seems likely it was during the summer term this year.

Yes, their older daughter would have turned 3 this summer. To me, that she was in preschool for whatever short period of time before her 3rd birthday, while they lived in England for a few months, while her mother worked, gives no indication that this was intended to be a permanent solution.

Sophie’s lanaguge that Joe discussed this being a forever plan only shows that she has no actual legal support - her young kids did not live there for any compelling length of time, and so the biggest thing she can say is that it was their intent to raise them there.

Honestly, big deal. Joe is not legally bound to honor that. It was a verbal agreement contingent upon them living there as a family, and the plans did not pan out when the marriage failed. Joe also stated he was fine with them being raised in both the US and the UK, and Sophie is staging an aggressive battle for the UK to be the kids primary residence. If I was him I also would not want my kids returned to the UK for an indefinite amount of time, letting the other parent establish a residence there while waiting for court dates. The whole thing is a mess and if they had two decent parents they’d mediate this out of court.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Although it seems they had made plans to move to the UK, no one is bound by those plans especially when a marriage breaks down. Who knows what happened that night of the big fight but it let to the end of their marriage. Of course that changes things for all of them compaired to their previous intentions.

They hadn't actually established residency yet in the UK so unlikely that intended plans will carry much sway. They spent a couple months there in late spring with her family and then the kids went on tour with Joe while Sophie filmed her show.

And they have a Sept 6th court order that the children aren't to be moved pending the next legal proceedings. She can't take them out of the country right now.

If the facts as alleged by Sophie are true -- and there are surely receipts for things like entering into a contract for the permanent home, the older daughter attending school, etc. -- then they did establish residency in the UK. Taking the girls on tour doesn't un-move them if the family had indeed moved to England, as Sophie says.

I wish more of the Florida filings were publicly available. When I look at the Florida docket, I don't see any orders from the court on it. I don't know anything about Florida family law though, so maybe there is some law that automatically comes into play upon filing, and that Joe's reps are framing as a "court order"? In any case, whatever it is is based on Joe's filing, which included a jurisdictional affidavit swearing that Florida is the kids' home state -- which seems questionable based on Sophie's filing.

His lawyer said he filed on Sept 5th and the court order from the Florida court restricting the move was Sept 6th so it seems likely they more or less happened at the same time.

They went to the UK in April / May - Sophie was starting to film in May so while it seems they did intend to move, they also were travelling all together for work. They stayed with her family May-July while she filmed her new show. Apparently they entered into contract in July for a house with a closing date of December. However they also own homes in the USA so home ownership wouldn' tbe enough to establish residency. Then it seems that Joe took the kids (and the nanny) with him in early August when they went on tour as he has a lot more time off (concerts are at night) than Sophie does while filming. She was filming in August in Spain and the UK. It seems filming ended in early September and the original plan had been she would then join him on tour. It looks like the first phase of the tour wraps up Dec 9 and then the next pahse starts at the end of February so they likely intended to move into the new house during that break.

It seems that post the fight they had agreed Sophie could come and get the kids when she was done filming in Sept versus the original plan to join him on tour, however after filing for divorce he was clearly given legal advice to keep the children in the USA while the next legal steps about custody happen. Since they have all lived in the USA for the past few years, I doubt that will be seen as abduction in any way. They own a condo in New York so they have a home there.

Yeah- if they first moved to England in April I doubt their 3 year old was starting school a month before it ended. Maybe she was enrolled somewhere for this fall where she’s obviously not attending. Sophie’s claims sound exaggerated to make it seem like they settled there. It seems like she wanted to do that, and he didn’t. And since he filed for divorce before they could settle down there, the kids haven’t spend a significant enough amount of time in the UK for it to be legally be considered their most recent established home.

It's a nursery school -- a daycare. Wouldn't really follow the school year like you're suggesting here.

Do you honestly think Sophie Turner and Joe Jonas are sending their toddlers to daycare? Lol.

I mean, Sophie alleged under penalty of perjury that "[t]he older child attended nursery school full-time in Warwickshire, England at
Stepping Stones nursery." Probably more accurate to liken it to a preschool than a daycare, but basically yes.

Did she give a time frame for this attendance? Can you link to her filing documents? I can only find comments and excerpts.

Sophie’s filing:
https://www.scribd.com/document/672750407/Sophie-Turner-Joe-Jonas

The opening makes him sound like a creep hitting on teenagers as a grown man

[Anonymous]

Based on her filing, they were in England from April 10th to July 31st. Based on her filing they were in a rental in London until May 5th when they moved to a rental in Warkwickshire. According to google, these two locations are quite far apart so it seems that if she was in a school it was only for some period of time between May 5th and the end of July. There also seems to be differing opinions as to who had primary care of the children in July. The nursey would be able to verify if she was in school full time in July.

I am a bit confused by the filing where she says that " the mother provides all the children's day to care care while in England" but then says shortly after that since May she has had an intense filming schedule and been travelling to different filming locations.

I also don't get referring to touring as a vacation he was taking the children on. This was his work project and from her own filing, other than a short week long trip back to the UK for work, it was intended the kids were on tour with him (and then later her) from the start of the tour in August through the end of the US tour dates which ends Dec 2nd. Sophie says in the document was going to join them Sept 28th until the end of the US dates. How was the older child to be fully integrated into every aspect of English life and in school while both parents were on tour in the USA?

It will be interesting to see what a judge decides about this case. Hopefully for the sake of all of them, they can get to a better place and work a little more collaboratively.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Although it seems they had made plans to move to the UK, no one is bound by those plans especially when a marriage breaks down. Who knows what happened that night of the big fight but it let to the end of their marriage. Of course that changes things for all of them compaired to their previous intentions.

They hadn't actually established residency yet in the UK so unlikely that intended plans will carry much sway. They spent a couple months there in late spring with her family and then the kids went on tour with Joe while Sophie filmed her show.

And they have a Sept 6th court order that the children aren't to be moved pending the next legal proceedings. She can't take them out of the country right now.

If the facts as alleged by Sophie are true -- and there are surely receipts for things like entering into a contract for the permanent home, the older daughter attending school, etc. -- then they did establish residency in the UK. Taking the girls on tour doesn't un-move them if the family had indeed moved to England, as Sophie says.

I wish more of the Florida filings were publicly available. When I look at the Florida docket, I don't see any orders from the court on it. I don't know anything about Florida family law though, so maybe there is some law that automatically comes into play upon filing, and that Joe's reps are framing as a "court order"? In any case, whatever it is is based on Joe's filing, which included a jurisdictional affidavit swearing that Florida is the kids' home state -- which seems questionable based on Sophie's filing.

His lawyer said he filed on Sept 5th and the court order from the Florida court restricting the move was Sept 6th so it seems likely they more or less happened at the same time.

They went to the UK in April / May - Sophie was starting to film in May so while it seems they did intend to move, they also were travelling all together for work. They stayed with her family May-July while she filmed her new show. Apparently they entered into contract in July for a house with a closing date of December. However they also own homes in the USA so home ownership wouldn' tbe enough to establish residency. Then it seems that Joe took the kids (and the nanny) with him in early August when they went on tour as he has a lot more time off (concerts are at night) than Sophie does while filming. She was filming in August in Spain and the UK. It seems filming ended in early September and the original plan had been she would then join him on tour. It looks like the first phase of the tour wraps up Dec 9 and then the next pahse starts at the end of February so they likely intended to move into the new house during that break.

It seems that post the fight they had agreed Sophie could come and get the kids when she was done filming in Sept versus the original plan to join him on tour, however after filing for divorce he was clearly given legal advice to keep the children in the USA while the next legal steps about custody happen. Since they have all lived in the USA for the past few years, I doubt that will be seen as abduction in any way. They own a condo in New York so they have a home there.

Yeah- if they first moved to England in April I doubt their 3 year old was starting school a month before it ended. Maybe she was enrolled somewhere for this fall where she’s obviously not attending. Sophie’s claims sound exaggerated to make it seem like they settled there. It seems like she wanted to do that, and he didn’t. And since he filed for divorce before they could settle down there, the kids haven’t spend a significant enough amount of time in the UK for it to be legally be considered their most recent established home.

It's a nursery school -- a daycare. Wouldn't really follow the school year like you're suggesting here.

Do you honestly think Sophie Turner and Joe Jonas are sending their toddlers to daycare? Lol.

I mean, Sophie alleged under penalty of perjury that "[t]he older child attended nursery school full-time in Warwickshire, England at
Stepping Stones nursery." Probably more accurate to liken it to a preschool than a daycare, but basically yes.

Did she give a time frame for this attendance? Can you link to her filing documents? I can only find comments and excerpts.

The filing doesn't give the time frame -- but based on the other facts seems likely it was during the summer term this year.

Yes, their older daughter would have turned 3 this summer. To me, that she was in preschool for whatever short period of time before her 3rd birthday, while they lived in England for a few months, while her mother worked, gives no indication that this was intended to be a permanent solution.

Sophie’s lanaguge that Joe discussed this being a forever plan only shows that she has no actual legal support - her young kids did not live there for any compelling length of time, and so the biggest thing she can say is that it was their intent to raise them there.

Honestly, big deal. Joe is not legally bound to honor that. It was a verbal agreement contingent upon them living there as a family, and the plans did not pan out when the marriage failed. Joe also stated he was fine with them being raised in both the US and the UK, and Sophie is staging an aggressive battle for the UK to be the kids primary residence. If I was him I also would not want my kids returned to the UK for an indefinite amount of time, letting the other parent establish a residence there while waiting for court dates. The whole thing is a mess and if they had two decent parents they’d mediate this out of court.

Does Sophie and Joe buying a house there not give a pretty good indication that this was intended to be a move (versus a visit)? To me, moving into a long term rental in England, sending the kids to school there, selling the Florida house, and buying a house in England pretty clearly indicates that they made a deliberate choice to move their home base to England. Seems to me that she has quite a bit more than just some future intent.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Accordint to past social media, the Jonas Brothers started rtour rehearsals in the USA for the tour at the end of June / beginning of July so it seems Joe likely brought the kids with him then - which aligns with his having the kids for 3 months statement. The tour started August 12 but lots of social media posts in July about the rehearsals.

According to Sophie's filing, Joe was in England until July 31st, when he left with the kids for his tour. It's possible he went to those rehearsals in June/July, but unless Sophie is flat out lying in her filing (very unlikely), he must have just come out for a few days here and there. Even if he brought the kids with him on some or all of those trips (unlikely given their ages), that's not the same as the kids being in his primary custody away from Sophie for 3 months. Even if she was working, if he was in England with the kids, they would be in their joint custody during that time.

And here is where I note that it's stuff like this that makes me pro-Sophie in this matter because Joe is trying to make it sound like, because Sophie was working for a few months and he spent a month or two as the primary parent during the most intense part of her shoot, he has somehow become the primary parent forever and Sophie has abdicated her responsibilities towards the kids.

This is a woman who literally did not work for 3 years while having these kids, despite working in an industry where giving up 3 years of your late 20s to stay home is worth a LOT of money, and having a career where ordinarily she would have been seeking to capitalize on her GoT exposure more aggressively. The fact that he seems to be using the only job she has take since getting pregnant with their eldest as evidence that she's just not that into being a mom anymore, while he is constantly touring with two different bands, is the sort of think that makes me really angry. That's why you see so many women talking about this case with some passion. The timing of the divorce and the way Joe seems to be treating a woman who gave up an incredibly successful and lucrative career to stay home with babies for three years, is very... triggering.

According to her Imdb page she has been working all along. Not on major movie roles but she has multiple mini series, a movie, a few TV projects etc. It doesn't seem she hasn't worked or had any jobs.

I think people view this and most situations through their own bias. You can decide that the man could only have bad intentions and be a non primary father and view everythign he says and does that that lens and the woman must of course be the nurturing doting primary parent who could only ever have good intentions. For myself, based on my life, I don't have that lens. My good and bad people / parents isn't split along the lines of men (bad) and woman (good). I have no idea what has really happened but I don't assume that since she is the woman and a mother she can do no wrong and since he is a man and father he must be at fault for everything and couldn't possibly have looked after his kids.

DP. None of the things she has done required the time commitment she previously put into her prior roles that brought her to prominence. It could be a coincidence but does appear to be more of a choice. She also hasn’t played any pregnant women to my knowledge so almost certainly wasn’t doing anything at that time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Although it seems they had made plans to move to the UK, no one is bound by those plans especially when a marriage breaks down. Who knows what happened that night of the big fight but it let to the end of their marriage. Of course that changes things for all of them compaired to their previous intentions.

They hadn't actually established residency yet in the UK so unlikely that intended plans will carry much sway. They spent a couple months there in late spring with her family and then the kids went on tour with Joe while Sophie filmed her show.

And they have a Sept 6th court order that the children aren't to be moved pending the next legal proceedings. She can't take them out of the country right now.

If the facts as alleged by Sophie are true -- and there are surely receipts for things like entering into a contract for the permanent home, the older daughter attending school, etc. -- then they did establish residency in the UK. Taking the girls on tour doesn't un-move them if the family had indeed moved to England, as Sophie says.

I wish more of the Florida filings were publicly available. When I look at the Florida docket, I don't see any orders from the court on it. I don't know anything about Florida family law though, so maybe there is some law that automatically comes into play upon filing, and that Joe's reps are framing as a "court order"? In any case, whatever it is is based on Joe's filing, which included a jurisdictional affidavit swearing that Florida is the kids' home state -- which seems questionable based on Sophie's filing.

His lawyer said he filed on Sept 5th and the court order from the Florida court restricting the move was Sept 6th so it seems likely they more or less happened at the same time.

They went to the UK in April / May - Sophie was starting to film in May so while it seems they did intend to move, they also were travelling all together for work. They stayed with her family May-July while she filmed her new show. Apparently they entered into contract in July for a house with a closing date of December. However they also own homes in the USA so home ownership wouldn' tbe enough to establish residency. Then it seems that Joe took the kids (and the nanny) with him in early August when they went on tour as he has a lot more time off (concerts are at night) than Sophie does while filming. She was filming in August in Spain and the UK. It seems filming ended in early September and the original plan had been she would then join him on tour. It looks like the first phase of the tour wraps up Dec 9 and then the next pahse starts at the end of February so they likely intended to move into the new house during that break.

It seems that post the fight they had agreed Sophie could come and get the kids when she was done filming in Sept versus the original plan to join him on tour, however after filing for divorce he was clearly given legal advice to keep the children in the USA while the next legal steps about custody happen. Since they have all lived in the USA for the past few years, I doubt that will be seen as abduction in any way. They own a condo in New York so they have a home there.

Yeah- if they first moved to England in April I doubt their 3 year old was starting school a month before it ended. Maybe she was enrolled somewhere for this fall where she’s obviously not attending. Sophie’s claims sound exaggerated to make it seem like they settled there. It seems like she wanted to do that, and he didn’t. And since he filed for divorce before they could settle down there, the kids haven’t spend a significant enough amount of time in the UK for it to be legally be considered their most recent established home.

It's a nursery school -- a daycare. Wouldn't really follow the school year like you're suggesting here.

Do you honestly think Sophie Turner and Joe Jonas are sending their toddlers to daycare? Lol.

I mean, Sophie alleged under penalty of perjury that "[t]he older child attended nursery school full-time in Warwickshire, England at
Stepping Stones nursery." Probably more accurate to liken it to a preschool than a daycare, but basically yes.

Did she give a time frame for this attendance? Can you link to her filing documents? I can only find comments and excerpts.

The filing doesn't give the time frame -- but based on the other facts seems likely it was during the summer term this year.

Yes, their older daughter would have turned 3 this summer. To me, that she was in preschool for whatever short period of time before her 3rd birthday, while they lived in England for a few months, while her mother worked, gives no indication that this was intended to be a permanent solution.

Sophie’s lanaguge that Joe discussed this being a forever plan only shows that she has no actual legal support - her young kids did not live there for any compelling length of time, and so the biggest thing she can say is that it was their intent to raise them there.

Honestly, big deal. Joe is not legally bound to honor that. It was a verbal agreement contingent upon them living there as a family, and the plans did not pan out when the marriage failed. Joe also stated he was fine with them being raised in both the US and the UK, and Sophie is staging an aggressive battle for the UK to be the kids primary residence. If I was him I also would not want my kids returned to the UK for an indefinite amount of time, letting the other parent establish a residence there while waiting for court dates. The whole thing is a mess and if they had two decent parents they’d mediate this out of court.

Does Sophie and Joe buying a house there not give a pretty good indication that this was intended to be a move (versus a visit)? To me, moving into a long term rental in England, sending the kids to school there, selling the Florida house, and buying a house in England pretty clearly indicates that they made a deliberate choice to move their home base to England. Seems to me that she has quite a bit more than just some future intent.

They buy houses all the time though. They lived in Miami for a bit (I imagine they bought that house during big income years for Joe to save $$$ on income tax.) their whole lifestyle is a nomadic pattern of buying luxury homes and long term rentals wherever they’re working or want to be. England is just the last place they did that. No guarantee how long they would have stayed- months, years, forever- or if they would have continued to go back and forth between the US. And I found Sophie is going to be able to prove otherwise. Her best hope in primary UK residence is a judge ruling to keep the kids with their mother, which doesn’t really happen anymore unless other parent is unfit. Realistically I think she is looking at 50/50 custody or primary US.

Joe probably realized their marriage wasn’t going to last and did not want to be stuck establishing their residence in the UK in perpetuity. I get that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Although it seems they had made plans to move to the UK, no one is bound by those plans especially when a marriage breaks down. Who knows what happened that night of the big fight but it let to the end of their marriage. Of course that changes things for all of them compaired to their previous intentions.

They hadn't actually established residency yet in the UK so unlikely that intended plans will carry much sway. They spent a couple months there in late spring with her family and then the kids went on tour with Joe while Sophie filmed her show.

And they have a Sept 6th court order that the children aren't to be moved pending the next legal proceedings. She can't take them out of the country right now.

If the facts as alleged by Sophie are true -- and there are surely receipts for things like entering into a contract for the permanent home, the older daughter attending school, etc. -- then they did establish residency in the UK. Taking the girls on tour doesn't un-move them if the family had indeed moved to England, as Sophie says.

I wish more of the Florida filings were publicly available. When I look at the Florida docket, I don't see any orders from the court on it. I don't know anything about Florida family law though, so maybe there is some law that automatically comes into play upon filing, and that Joe's reps are framing as a "court order"? In any case, whatever it is is based on Joe's filing, which included a jurisdictional affidavit swearing that Florida is the kids' home state -- which seems questionable based on Sophie's filing.

His lawyer said he filed on Sept 5th and the court order from the Florida court restricting the move was Sept 6th so it seems likely they more or less happened at the same time.

They went to the UK in April / May - Sophie was starting to film in May so while it seems they did intend to move, they also were travelling all together for work. They stayed with her family May-July while she filmed her new show. Apparently they entered into contract in July for a house with a closing date of December. However they also own homes in the USA so home ownership wouldn' tbe enough to establish residency. Then it seems that Joe took the kids (and the nanny) with him in early August when they went on tour as he has a lot more time off (concerts are at night) than Sophie does while filming. She was filming in August in Spain and the UK. It seems filming ended in early September and the original plan had been she would then join him on tour. It looks like the first phase of the tour wraps up Dec 9 and then the next pahse starts at the end of February so they likely intended to move into the new house during that break.

It seems that post the fight they had agreed Sophie could come and get the kids when she was done filming in Sept versus the original plan to join him on tour, however after filing for divorce he was clearly given legal advice to keep the children in the USA while the next legal steps about custody happen. Since they have all lived in the USA for the past few years, I doubt that will be seen as abduction in any way. They own a condo in New York so they have a home there.

Yeah- if they first moved to England in April I doubt their 3 year old was starting school a month before it ended. Maybe she was enrolled somewhere for this fall where she’s obviously not attending. Sophie’s claims sound exaggerated to make it seem like they settled there. It seems like she wanted to do that, and he didn’t. And since he filed for divorce before they could settle down there, the kids haven’t spend a significant enough amount of time in the UK for it to be legally be considered their most recent established home.

It's a nursery school -- a daycare. Wouldn't really follow the school year like you're suggesting here.

Do you honestly think Sophie Turner and Joe Jonas are sending their toddlers to daycare? Lol.

I mean, Sophie alleged under penalty of perjury that "[t]he older child attended nursery school full-time in Warwickshire, England at
Stepping Stones nursery." Probably more accurate to liken it to a preschool than a daycare, but basically yes.

Did she give a time frame for this attendance? Can you link to her filing documents? I can only find comments and excerpts.

The filing doesn't give the time frame -- but based on the other facts seems likely it was during the summer term this year.

Yes, their older daughter would have turned 3 this summer. To me, that she was in preschool for whatever short period of time before her 3rd birthday, while they lived in England for a few months, while her mother worked, gives no indication that this was intended to be a permanent solution.

Sophie’s lanaguge that Joe discussed this being a forever plan only shows that she has no actual legal support - her young kids did not live there for any compelling length of time, and so the biggest thing she can say is that it was their intent to raise them there.

Honestly, big deal. Joe is not legally bound to honor that. It was a verbal agreement contingent upon them living there as a family, and the plans did not pan out when the marriage failed. Joe also stated he was fine with them being raised in both the US and the UK, and Sophie is staging an aggressive battle for the UK to be the kids primary residence. If I was him I also would not want my kids returned to the UK for an indefinite amount of time, letting the other parent establish a residence there while waiting for court dates. The whole thing is a mess and if they had two decent parents they’d mediate this out of court.

Does Sophie and Joe buying a house there not give a pretty good indication that this was intended to be a move (versus a visit)? To me, moving into a long term rental in England, sending the kids to school there, selling the Florida house, and buying a house in England pretty clearly indicates that they made a deliberate choice to move their home base to England. Seems to me that she has quite a bit more than just some future intent.

They buy houses all the time though. They lived in Miami for a bit (I imagine they bought that house during big income years for Joe to save $$$ on income tax.) their whole lifestyle is a nomadic pattern of buying luxury homes and long term rentals wherever they’re working or want to be. England is just the last place they did that. No guarantee how long they would have stayed- months, years, forever- or if they would have continued to go back and forth between the US. And I found Sophie is going to be able to prove otherwise. Her best hope in primary UK residence is a judge ruling to keep the kids with their mother, which doesn’t really happen anymore unless other parent is unfit. Realistically I think she is looking at 50/50 custody or primary US.

Joe probably realized their marriage wasn’t going to last and did not want to be stuck establishing their residence in the UK in perpetuity. I get that.

Realistically, once the kids reach school age they are going to have to attend school fully one place or the other. I see absolutely no reason why any preference would be given to the US. This will be interesting to follow.