Why are OOS flagships so popular these days?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College students care much less about museums and culture than parents. Students choose OOS flagships bc they want a big school, big sports experience. These schools are mostly in cities where the university is the center of the city.

It’s not for everybody, but many students like the traditional college experience.

+100

Absolutely agree. They want the big school, big sports experience - it's not because the towns of the OOS flagships are so great in comparison to their home cities.

I don’t think the towns even necessarily need to be “better”. Just being somewhere different is fun.

er.. different is not always fun.

+100
These people romanticizing being “elsewhere” crack me up. Sure, some places are worth it (Hawaii? Montana? Definitely.). But most are just a rehash of everything they would be experiencing here. Kind of amusing.

This really isn’t true. The overall vibe at two given flagships can be very different. For example, UVA has a distinctive southern feel that you aren’t going to find at places like Wisconsin or Berkeley or Vermont. Academics aside, different schools can attract a very different type of student.

+1

I grew up in one area, went to college & grad school in another, and then lived in VA for many years.

They are all different. Personally, I’d be bored AF if I always lived in one area. I’m looking forward to trying somewhere new in a few years.

YMMV. I know some people are content to never live anywhere else. Which is fine - no one is required to move.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. It’s page 9, not 8. And right after that the whole “13th grade” bullshit started.

It was the 13th grade comment that really started it.

Because some people took it personally. It’s ok if you want to stay in-state. Really.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think the first shot fired is as early as page ONE:

“You are going to OOS public instead of in state UVA because you didn't get into UVA.“

The UVA fans might not realize it but their confidence in statements like this is nauseating. I mean who are you to make a statement like that? The 13th grade stuff (which I did not take part in & don’t agree with) came after repeated insults like this.

But here’s the thing: poster after poster admitted that their kids were going to school out of state because they couldn’t get into UVA.

Let’s look at cross admits.

UVA 82% Indiana 18%
UVA 80% UC Boulder 20%
UVA 75% Delaware 25%
UVA 72% Arizona 28%
UVA 67% Wisconsin 33%
UVA 65% UCSB 35%
UVA 64% Perdue 36%
UVA 63% UIUC 37%
UVA 57% UT Austin 43%
UVA 54% GA Tech 46%
UVA 46% UCLA 54%
UVA 43% Michigan 57%
UVA 40% Berkeley 60%

Plenty of kids who get into UVA are choosing other flagships. Even for lower ranked schools it’s at least 1 out of 5 kids.

Do we know those were all Virginia kids not picking UVA?

They weren’t all VA kids, obviously, but demonstrates that many, many kids will choose OOS schools, even lower-ranked, over UVA.

I couldn’t find cross admit data solely for in-state students, but if the argument is that people pick always UVA because it’s cheaper & better ranked than the other schools admitted, then we wouldn’t see any UVA admits choosing more expensive and lower-ranked schools.

But we do.

UVA 21% Notre Dame 81%
UVA 40% Tufts 60%
UVA 60% Howard 40%
UVA 63% SMU 37%
UVA 67% AU 33%
UVA 68% Villanova 32%
UVA 72% Lehigh 28%
UVA 75% U Rochester 25%

Many kids choose don’t choose the cheapest, highest ranked option.

Many kids prefer OOS.

Not sure why that’s a tough concept.

Look, you can site parchment (or whatever that site is) no until the cows come home, but unless you separate in state from out of state it’s meaningless. For example, if a kid is admitted to both Notre Dame and UVA out of state, yes, I can see them selecting Notre Dame at that rate easily. But in state? Less certain.

Again, I included all private schools above to take out the in-state/OOS tuition discretionary when I *cited* Parchment.

Many kids choose don’t choose the cheapest, highest ranked option.

Many kids prefer OOS.

You can’t acknowledge that people are different and have different priorities than you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College students care much less about museums and culture than parents. Students choose OOS flagships bc they want a big school, big sports experience. These schools are mostly in cities where the university is the center of the city.

It’s not for everybody, but many students like the traditional college experience.

+100

Absolutely agree. They want the big school, big sports experience - it's not because the towns of the OOS flagships are so great in comparison to their home cities.

I don’t think the towns even necessarily need to be “better”. Just being somewhere different is fun.

er.. different is not always fun.

You’ll never know if you don’t try.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“it makes no sense to forgo the state flagship that may have a great reputation for your major, over a lesser oos just because you want to be a road warrior.”

I guess we should just send you our contact information & let you decide what our priorities should be and how to run our lives.

you can run it however you choose, but from an academic and financial standpoint, what I stated still holds: "it makes no sense to forgo the state flagship that may have a great reputation for your major, over a lesser oos just because you want to be a road warrior".

I get that some people want a big campus vs a small campus, or a rural campus vs city campus, but to most people, those "wants" are luxuries.

I'm not talking about choosing a mediocre in state vs a mediocre oos. I'm talking about the choice between a well regarded in state flagship *for your major* vs the mediocre oos, especially if the in state flagship gives you merit. Obviously, if you get into a better oos, then it's a different story, but that's not what I'm referring to.

What do you mean “financial standpoint”? From a financial standpoint many Virginia residents can go OOS for less than the cost of UVA. It’s printed on the web site for Bama, WVU, Purdue engineering. Many other schools have less predictable scholarships with the same result. For those students it’s going in state to UVA that’s the luxury.

UVA = $7,600/semester in tuition. Cheap AF.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“it makes no sense to forgo the state flagship that may have a great reputation for your major, over a lesser oos just because you want to be a road warrior.”

I guess we should just send you our contact information & let you decide what our priorities should be and how to run our lives.

you can run it however you choose, but from an academic and financial standpoint, what I stated still holds: "it makes no sense to forgo the state flagship that may have a great reputation for your major, over a lesser oos just because you want to be a road warrior".

I get that some people want a big campus vs a small campus, or a rural campus vs city campus, but to most people, those "wants" are luxuries.

I'm not talking about choosing a mediocre in state vs a mediocre oos. I'm talking about the choice between a well regarded in state flagship *for your major* vs the mediocre oos, especially if the in state flagship gives you merit. Obviously, if you get into a better oos, then it's a different story, but that's not what I'm referring to.

It doesn’t make sense *to you* because you’re rigid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“it makes no sense to forgo the state flagship that may have a great reputation for your major, over a lesser oos just because you want to be a road warrior.”

I guess we should just send you our contact information & let you decide what our priorities should be and how to run our lives.

you can run it however you choose, but from an academic and financial standpoint, what I stated still holds: "it makes no sense to forgo the state flagship that may have a great reputation for your major, over a lesser oos just because you want to be a road warrior".

I get that some people want a big campus vs a small campus, or a rural campus vs city campus, but to most people, those "wants" are luxuries.

I'm not talking about choosing a mediocre in state vs a mediocre oos. I'm talking about the choice between a well regarded in state flagship *for your major* vs the mediocre oos, especially if the in state flagship gives you merit. Obviously, if you get into a better oos, then it's a different story, but that's not what I'm referring to.

What do you mean “financial standpoint”? From a financial standpoint many Virginia residents can go OOS for less than the cost of UVA. It’s printed on the web site for Bama, WVU, Purdue engineering. Many other schools have less predictable scholarships with the same result. For those students it’s going in state to UVA that’s the luxury.

UVA = $7,600/semester in tuition. Cheap AF.

People who agree with you go to UVA.

People who have less money than you think UVA is pretty expensive and go elsewhere.

People who have more money than you think OOS schools are also “Cheap AF,” and many of them go to those schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think the first shot fired is as early as page ONE:

“You are going to OOS public instead of in state UVA because you didn't get into UVA.“

The UVA fans might not realize it but their confidence in statements like this is nauseating. I mean who are you to make a statement like that? The 13th grade stuff (which I did not take part in & don’t agree with) came after repeated insults like this.

But here’s the thing: poster after poster admitted that their kids were going to school out of state because they couldn’t get into UVA.

Let’s look at cross admits.

UVA 82% Indiana 18%
UVA 80% UC Boulder 20%
UVA 75% Delaware 25%
UVA 72% Arizona 28%
UVA 67% Wisconsin 33%
UVA 65% UCSB 35%
UVA 64% Perdue 36%
UVA 63% UIUC 37%
UVA 57% UT Austin 43%
UVA 54% GA Tech 46%
UVA 46% UCLA 54%
UVA 43% Michigan 57%
UVA 40% Berkeley 60%

Plenty of kids who get into UVA are choosing other flagships. Even for lower ranked schools it’s at least 1 out of 5 kids.

Do we know those were all Virginia kids not picking UVA?

They weren’t all VA kids, obviously, but demonstrates that many, many kids will choose OOS schools, even lower-ranked, over UVA.

I couldn’t find cross admit data solely for in-state students, but if the argument is that people pick always UVA because it’s cheaper & better ranked than the other schools admitted, then we wouldn’t see any UVA admits choosing more expensive and lower-ranked schools.

But we do.

UVA 21% Notre Dame 81%
UVA 40% Tufts 60%
UVA 60% Howard 40%
UVA 63% SMU 37%
UVA 67% AU 33%
UVA 68% Villanova 32%
UVA 72% Lehigh 28%
UVA 75% U Rochester 25%

Many kids choose don’t choose the cheapest, highest ranked option.

Many kids prefer OOS.

Not sure why that’s a tough concept.

Look, you can site parchment (or whatever that site is) no until the cows come home, but unless you separate in state from out of state it’s meaningless. For example, if a kid is admitted to both Notre Dame and UVA out of state, yes, I can see them selecting Notre Dame at that rate easily. But in state? Less certain.

Again, I included all private schools above to take out the in-state/OOS tuition discretionary when I *cited* Parchment.

Many kids choose don’t choose the cheapest, highest ranked option.

Many kids prefer OOS.

You can’t acknowledge that people are different and have different priorities than you?

Sure I can. I’m sure it happens. But the “data” that you claim supports it simply
doesn’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think the first shot fired is as early as page ONE:

“You are going to OOS public instead of in state UVA because you didn't get into UVA.“

The UVA fans might not realize it but their confidence in statements like this is nauseating. I mean who are you to make a statement like that? The 13th grade stuff (which I did not take part in & don’t agree with) came after repeated insults like this.

But here’s the thing: poster after poster admitted that their kids were going to school out of state because they couldn’t get into UVA.

Let’s look at cross admits.

UVA 82% Indiana 18%
UVA 80% UC Boulder 20%
UVA 75% Delaware 25%
UVA 72% Arizona 28%
UVA 67% Wisconsin 33%
UVA 65% UCSB 35%
UVA 64% Perdue 36%
UVA 63% UIUC 37%
UVA 57% UT Austin 43%
UVA 54% GA Tech 46%
UVA 46% UCLA 54%
UVA 43% Michigan 57%
UVA 40% Berkeley 60%

Plenty of kids who get into UVA are choosing other flagships. Even for lower ranked schools it’s at least 1 out of 5 kids.

Do we know those were all Virginia kids not picking UVA?

They weren’t all VA kids, obviously, but demonstrates that many, many kids will choose OOS schools, even lower-ranked, over UVA.

I couldn’t find cross admit data solely for in-state students, but if the argument is that people pick always UVA because it’s cheaper & better ranked than the other schools admitted, then we wouldn’t see any UVA admits choosing more expensive and lower-ranked schools.

But we do.

UVA 21% Notre Dame 81%
UVA 40% Tufts 60%
UVA 60% Howard 40%
UVA 63% SMU 37%
UVA 67% AU 33%
UVA 68% Villanova 32%
UVA 72% Lehigh 28%
UVA 75% U Rochester 25%

Many kids choose don’t choose the cheapest, highest ranked option.

Many kids prefer OOS.

Not sure why that’s a tough concept.

Look, you can site parchment (or whatever that site is) no until the cows come home, but unless you separate in state from out of state it’s meaningless. For example, if a kid is admitted to both Notre Dame and UVA out of state, yes, I can see them selecting Notre Dame at that rate easily. But in state? Less certain.

Again, I included all private schools above to take out the in-state/OOS tuition discretionary when I *cited* Parchment.

Many kids choose don’t choose the cheapest, highest ranked option.

Many kids prefer OOS.

You can’t acknowledge that people are different and have different priorities than you?

Sure I can. I’m sure it happens. But the “data” that you claim supports it simply
doesn’t.

Where is your data?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think the first shot fired is as early as page ONE:

“You are going to OOS public instead of in state UVA because you didn't get into UVA.“

The UVA fans might not realize it but their confidence in statements like this is nauseating. I mean who are you to make a statement like that? The 13th grade stuff (which I did not take part in & don’t agree with) came after repeated insults like this.

But here’s the thing: poster after poster admitted that their kids were going to school out of state because they couldn’t get into UVA.

Let’s look at cross admits.

UVA 82% Indiana 18%
UVA 80% UC Boulder 20%
UVA 75% Delaware 25%
UVA 72% Arizona 28%
UVA 67% Wisconsin 33%
UVA 65% UCSB 35%
UVA 64% Perdue 36%
UVA 63% UIUC 37%
UVA 57% UT Austin 43%
UVA 54% GA Tech 46%
UVA 46% UCLA 54%
UVA 43% Michigan 57%
UVA 40% Berkeley 60%

Plenty of kids who get into UVA are choosing other flagships. Even for lower ranked schools it’s at least 1 out of 5 kids.

Do we know those were all Virginia kids not picking UVA?

They weren’t all VA kids, obviously, but demonstrates that many, many kids will choose OOS schools, even lower-ranked, over UVA.

I couldn’t find cross admit data solely for in-state students, but if the argument is that people pick always UVA because it’s cheaper & better ranked than the other schools admitted, then we wouldn’t see any UVA admits choosing more expensive and lower-ranked schools.

But we do.

UVA 21% Notre Dame 81%
UVA 40% Tufts 60%
UVA 60% Howard 40%
UVA 63% SMU 37%
UVA 67% AU 33%
UVA 68% Villanova 32%
UVA 72% Lehigh 28%
UVA 75% U Rochester 25%

Many kids choose don’t choose the cheapest, highest ranked option.

Many kids prefer OOS.

Not sure why that’s a tough concept.

Look, you can site parchment (or whatever that site is) no until the cows come home, but unless you separate in state from out of state it’s meaningless. For example, if a kid is admitted to both Notre Dame and UVA out of state, yes, I can see them selecting Notre Dame at that rate easily. But in state? Less certain.

Again, I included all private schools above to take out the in-state/OOS tuition discretionary when I *cited* Parchment.

Many kids choose don’t choose the cheapest, highest ranked option.

Many kids prefer OOS.

You can’t acknowledge that people are different and have different priorities than you?

Sure I can. I’m sure it happens. But the “data” that you claim supports it simply
doesn’t.

The parchment data certainly supports “Many kids choose don’t choose the cheapest, highest ranked option.”

[Anonymous]

to the main question - simply because UVA, VT , WM cant cant all the qualified students and people here have the $$$ to go to OOS schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:to the main question - simply because UVA, VT , WM cant cant all the qualified students and people here have the $$$ to go to OOS schools.

You’re half right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:to the main question - simply because UVA, VT , WM cant cant all the qualified students and people here have the $$$ to go to OOS schools.

Many students that "just miss" getting into UVA, VT, WM are offered excellent scholarships at other states' flagships-to the point where it's the same or an even lower price.
My kid is a good student but I don't think he has a chance at UVA or VT (engineering.) But with the automatic merit scholarship at Alabama, he'll only be paying about $2k/semester-far cheaper than what he'd have to pay at UVA or VT even if he could get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“it makes no sense to forgo the state flagship that may have a great reputation for your major, over a lesser oos just because you want to be a road warrior.”

I guess we should just send you our contact information & let you decide what our priorities should be and how to run our lives.

you can run it however you choose, but from an academic and financial standpoint, what I stated still holds: "it makes no sense to forgo the state flagship that may have a great reputation for your major, over a lesser oos just because you want to be a road warrior".

I get that some people want a big campus vs a small campus, or a rural campus vs city campus, but to most people, those "wants" are luxuries.

I'm not talking about choosing a mediocre in state vs a mediocre oos. I'm talking about the choice between a well regarded in state flagship *for your major* vs the mediocre oos, especially if the in state flagship gives you merit. Obviously, if you get into a better oos, then it's a different story, but that's not what I'm referring to.

What do you mean “financial standpoint”? From a financial standpoint many Virginia residents can go OOS for less than the cost of UVA. It’s printed on the web site for Bama, WVU, Purdue engineering. Many other schools have less predictable scholarships with the same result. For those students it’s going in state to UVA that’s the luxury.

UVA = $7,600/semester in tuition. Cheap AF.

You forgot substantial fees, and increased costs for several majors. More accurate to compare total cost of attendance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:to the main question - simply because UVA, VT , WM cant cant all the qualified students and people here have the $$$ to go to OOS schools.

Many students that "just miss" getting into UVA, VT, WM are offered excellent scholarships at other states' flagships-to the point where it's the same or an even lower price.
My kid is a good student but I don't think he has a chance at UVA or VT (engineering.) But with the automatic merit scholarship at Alabama, he'll only be paying about $2k/semester-far cheaper than what he'd have to pay at UVA or VT even if he could get in.

Yea, exactly. I said this earlier in fact but I’m a so-called UVA poster so I was dismissed out of hand.

The joke used to be that JMU stood for Just Missed UVA. That’s not true of JMU or any other school in VA outside of W&M and maybe VT. The gap has widened. So you have very good students from VA that can’t / don’t get into those schools but have very good stats and are getting merit offers from OOS flagships. They end up paying less to leave the state and going to better (or at least better known) OOS schools.

So the choice is made for them given UVA’s admission standards, but it’s not a bad choice to have made.

I am smiling as I write this because I have “Morning Joe“ on the TV in the background and they’re talking about how unfair the process is for rich kids to get into best schools. The reporter just said “schools like the Ivy League and elite publics like Virginia and Michigan.” In that order lol. No mention of any of the other out-of-state flagships being discussed in this thread lol.