Things I can’t say IRL. I am in a DV group for women

[Anonymous]

Maybe histrionics are attracted to abusers? Abuse could still be real.

I’m sure that No one would believe that when I was like 10 I saw my dad throw my sister up against a wall and punch her in the stomach. That’s what I thought about when I read your post.

[Anonymous]

I used to work at a DV shelter. I reached the same conclusion, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe histrionics are attracted to abusers? Abuse could still be real.

I’m sure that No one would believe that when I was like 10 I saw my dad throw my sister up against a wall and punch her in the stomach. That’s what I thought about when I read your post.

Of course people would believe you! They should. And I’m sorry that you witnessed that.

But imagine if, at the next support group, you say you haven’t seen your dad since you were 7. Now what do you expect people to think?

[Anonymous]

If you are feeling like this OP it would definitely be in your best interest to find another support group to join.

Otherwise you may not benefit too greatly from your current one.

Good luck! 👍🏽

[Anonymous]

I am a lawyer who comes from a family of lawyers and work with lawyers, etc.

The consensus is that sometimes the man is the aggressor, sometimes the woman is the aggressor yet she blames the man, and sometimes both are equally combative. I won’t go into details because I’m sure many clients might stumble on this post and recognize their crazy violent stories. Think: trying to run over your husband while taking his car…I’ll stop there.

Re: the OP - Any group like that will draw people stuck in victimhood, so I’m not dismissing your observation. I believe it. But it’s also human nature to judge others more harshly than yourself. Ever wonder what others think about you? I would just be pleasant around everyone. That doesn’t mean you need to be overly friendly—just don’t be rude or stand-offish.

And perhaps work on extricating yourself from the group as soon as you feel comfortable. You will be better served focused on forward-thinking resilience than dwelling on victimhood. Even if the group doesn’t focus on stories of abuse and is more focused on daily struggles, focusing on the negative won’t help as much as other activities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you are feeling like this OP it would definitely be in your best interest to find another support group to join.

Otherwise you may not benefit too greatly from your current one.

Good luck! 👍🏽

It seems you haven’t followed the posts. And this is a not uncommon feature of most groups

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a lawyer who comes from a family of lawyers and work with lawyers, etc.

The consensus is that sometimes the man is the aggressor, sometimes the woman is the aggressor yet she blames the man, and sometimes both are equally combative. I won’t go into details because I’m sure many clients might stumble on this post and recognize their crazy violent stories. Think: trying to run over your husband while taking his car…I’ll stop there.

Re: the OP - Any group like that will draw people stuck in victimhood, so I’m not dismissing your observation. I believe it. But it’s also human nature to judge others more harshly than yourself. Ever wonder what others think about you? I would just be pleasant around everyone. That doesn’t mean you need to be overly friendly—just don’t be rude or stand-offish.

And perhaps work on extricating yourself from the group as soon as you feel comfortable. You will be better served focused on forward-thinking resilience than dwelling on victimhood. Even if the group doesn’t focus on stories of abuse and is more focused on daily struggles, focusing on the negative won’t help as much as other activities.

I think people haven’t followed the chain.

And yes, both men and women can be abusers or there can be mutual toxicity

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe histrionics are attracted to abusers? Abuse could still be real.

I’m sure that No one would believe that when I was like 10 I saw my dad throw my sister up against a wall and punch her in the stomach. That’s what I thought about when I read your post.

Of course people would believe you! They should. And I’m sorry that you witnessed that.

But imagine if, at the next support group, you say you haven’t seen your dad since you were 7. Now what do you expect people to think?

Exactly. This is the sort of thing. Nonsensical and outlandish claims. These spaces are not meant to be judgmental or ‘gotcha’ but it can also be confusing or disruptive to others. And many of these people are heavy users of services, with many demands and it can feel exhausting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you considered that you can both be abused AND be abusive all in the same relationship.

Of course. There is a significant percentage of people in the DV support world who have engaged in reactive abuse. This is why many many DV orgs do NOT advocate for mandatory arrest DV laws and similar. We know that it can be hard to establish who was the perpetrator in a situation, and women have been swept up in unfair arrests.

But that’s not the point of this post. At all.

What is “reactive abuse” though? A woman screaming at her DH then her DH punching her has not engaged in “reactive abuse.” I don’t think that’s what OP is talking about.

I think the extremely attenuated definition of “abuse” is possibly what may be leading to an uptick of the type of woman OP is talking about, claiming victim status based on a TikTok definition of abuse. Just like there has been a proliferation of self-diagnosis in other areas based on social media …

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My experience isn't made up, OP. But I have also been abusive, as a response to his abuse. There comes a point in a toxic relationship where it brings you down to the same level. You can't always go high, because sometimes you're cornered and you need to fight (verbally or physically).

I know two women who lied about being abused by their relatives or their spouse. They were both in full-blown paranoid episodes stemming from psychiatric treatment refusal. They both had a bipolar disorder diagnoses. Maybe there was also something else going on, who knows. Psychiatry is not an exact science and there is still plenty we don't know.

I also note that "abuse" encompasses a great many things, minor and/or major. Some humans verbalize or otherwise exteriorize their feelings a lot more than others.

***There is little relation between how much a person expresses their pain and how much pain they actually felt!***

And there is no way to know.

So we should focus on the path to economic and psychiatric recovery. Both are quantifiable, objective measures. It's all we can do.

welll …. I’d argue that if you think it was a “mutual abuse” situation, you shouldn’t be in a DV groups for women who may geniunely fear for their lives and experienced much more severe abuse. This isn’t to say that fighting back at times means the woman wasn’t the victim or that she has to be perfect. But it does mean that if you didn’t experience actual domination and control you should bow out of a DV group.

My exEH engaged in some “mild” abusive behavior (grabbing my phone, blocking me from leaving, one time when he followed me around a mall demanding an apology). And a lot of lower key control through escalating verbal tactics. But I’m not a “DV victim” and would never join a DV group for women actual beaten by their partners.

DV is far, far more than being "actually beaten" by their partners. Come on, we know this. That is not the threshold and it causes harm to suggest that unless you are "actually beaten" you aren't experiencing abuse or other types of violence.
That may be OP's mindset, which is causing this reaction, I don't know. I don't know the intricacies of anyone's abuse story, and neither does OP.
I find it incredibly distasteful for OP to decide she knows this to such a degree she would post about it. Focus on yourself. If group work doesn't work for you, do individual work. But you don't get to control other people's stories, healing, even perspective on their own lives.

DV to the point you join a DV support group should be serious - not “my DH is a big jerk.” Yes usually involving severe physical or mental abuse/control. My xDH did some minor abusice stuff but nowhere near the level of serious abuse such that I would label myself an “victim.”

You can't be serious. Who decides this? You? I mean, good for you. Label yourself whatever you want, no one is going to tell you what to do, but you don't get to decide that for anyone else.
I can't believe the crap I'm seeing on this thread.

You seem to be struggling with context and words. I don’t think this poster is saying she personally decides who ‘gets to be’ in a support group, but yes, people are entitled to their opinions and perceptions. You seem to be vehement in demanding people agree and support the DV experiences of others, no matter how fantastical they might present, yet you continually deny posters on here from expressing their own views. It’s an interesting hypocrisy

She said if you want to join a DV support group, you should only do so if it's serious. Of course she doesn't literally get to decide, but she sure is passing judgement. I can form an opinion too. Right? And my opinion is that that's BS to say that. That's objectively offensive. What else did I say? Good for her, she can decide for herself. See how that works?

PP here. If I went to a DV group based on my exDH being a big jerk who grabbed my phone out of my hand (once) and a few other low level things … that would be absurd. I know people actually sent to the hospital by their husbands or regularly hit, threatened to be shot, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I used to work at a DV shelter. I reached the same conclusion, OP.

How did you handle these people? It does not feel appropriate to simply ‘kick them out’ as posters above suggested (including the one who claims to work in DV, which I find strange) as they seem to be fragile and mentally unwell. I don’t doubt there is probably some history of abuse somewhere in their lives, to be clear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a lawyer who comes from a family of lawyers and work with lawyers, etc.

The consensus is that sometimes the man is the aggressor, sometimes the woman is the aggressor yet she blames the man, and sometimes both are equally combative. I won’t go into details because I’m sure many clients might stumble on this post and recognize their crazy violent stories. Think: trying to run over your husband while taking his car…I’ll stop there.

Re: the OP - Any group like that will draw people stuck in victimhood, so I’m not dismissing your observation. I believe it. But it’s also human nature to judge others more harshly than yourself. Ever wonder what others think about you? I would just be pleasant around everyone. That doesn’t mean you need to be overly friendly—just don’t be rude or stand-offish.

And perhaps work on extricating yourself from the group as soon as you feel comfortable. You will be better served focused on forward-thinking resilience than dwelling on victimhood. Even if the group doesn’t focus on stories of abuse and is more focused on daily struggles, focusing on the negative won’t help as much as other activities.

excellent advice. if you’ve gotten out of the abusive situation maybe time to start looking ahead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to work at a DV shelter. I reached the same conclusion, OP.

How did you handle these people? It does not feel appropriate to simply ‘kick them out’ as posters above suggested (including the one who claims to work in DV, which I find strange) as they seem to be fragile and mentally unwell. I don’t doubt there is probably some history of abuse somewhere in their lives, to be clear.

DP. I think the best way to understand this is that if we provide low-barrier resources to help people as much as possible (like shelters where you don’t have to prove you are abused; free DV support groups) you are inevitably going to attract some people who are faking/taking advantage of. So just accept that’s part of providing the service to those who need it in the most efficient manner.

I wonder if there are any resources for AA groups out there for handling this type of issue? AA is the best established self-help support group out there and I’m sure they’ve dealt with this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a lawyer who comes from a family of lawyers and work with lawyers, etc.

The consensus is that sometimes the man is the aggressor, sometimes the woman is the aggressor yet she blames the man, and sometimes both are equally combative. I won’t go into details because I’m sure many clients might stumble on this post and recognize their crazy violent stories. Think: trying to run over your husband while taking his car…I’ll stop there.

Re: the OP - Any group like that will draw people stuck in victimhood, so I’m not dismissing your observation. I believe it. But it’s also human nature to judge others more harshly than yourself. Ever wonder what others think about you? I would just be pleasant around everyone. That doesn’t mean you need to be overly friendly—just don’t be rude or stand-offish.

And perhaps work on extricating yourself from the group as soon as you feel comfortable. You will be better served focused on forward-thinking resilience than dwelling on victimhood. Even if the group doesn’t focus on stories of abuse and is more focused on daily struggles, focusing on the negative won’t help as much as other activities.

excellent advice. if you’ve gotten out of the abusive situation maybe time to start looking ahead.

Well, some people choose differently. The founder of the org is herself struggling with how to handle this issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to work at a DV shelter. I reached the same conclusion, OP.

How did you handle these people? It does not feel appropriate to simply ‘kick them out’ as posters above suggested (including the one who claims to work in DV, which I find strange) as they seem to be fragile and mentally unwell. I don’t doubt there is probably some history of abuse somewhere in their lives, to be clear.

DP. I think the best way to understand this is that if we provide low-barrier resources to help people as much as possible (like shelters where you don’t have to prove you are abused; free DV support groups) you are inevitably going to attract some people who are faking/taking advantage of. So just accept that’s part of providing the service to those who need it in the most efficient manner.

I wonder if there are any resources for AA groups out there for handling this type of issue? AA is the best established self-help support group out there and I’m sure they’ve dealt with this.

That’s a really good idea. And you’re right, this is definitely a cost of doing business, as they say