Custody agreement - clauses regarding school attendance

[Anonymous]

We have 50/50 custody (physical and legal). DD is in elementary school now, and her dad has been taking her out of school for various not-officially-excusable reasons.

We are already re-writing our custody agreement because many things have changed since it was originally written. Do any of you have clauses related to missing school, notification, permission, etc.? Example would be if one parent wanted to take the child out of town on vacation during a time that is that parent's scheduled custody time but is also during the school week. Is that parent required to notify the other parent? Is there anything that can be done to prevent school absences for reasons other than illness and emergency?

[Anonymous]

Typically schools also excuse absences for religious observances. If neither of you are religious. This might not be an issue. However, if you are of different piety or faiths, be sure to address this.
Think about family vacations as well. Some students take ski or Disney trips with their parents or grandparents outside of scheduled school breaks. Are you ok with these?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Typically schools also excuse absences for religious observances. If neither of you are religious. This might not be an issue. However, if you are of different piety or faiths, be sure to address this.
Think about family vacations as well. Some students take ski or Disney trips with their parents or grandparents outside of scheduled school breaks. Are you ok with these?

OP here. Neither of us is religious. The only holidays we celebrate other than birthdays are usually granted off as federal holidays anyway. I am not generally okay with vacations outside of school breaks. There are plenty of holidays from school, and for the last few years, we have often had to struggle and juggle to identify camps or take vacation time to cover those weeks. My opinion is that he can wait to go on a week long trip to Mexico until winter break, spring break, or summer break. It doesn't need to happen in the middle of October.

[Anonymous]

This is illegal. Truancy. Done. He breaks the law call the cops

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is illegal. Truancy. Done. He breaks the law call the cops

Yes but schools won't start caring until a child reaches a certain threshold for unexcused absences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Typically schools also excuse absences for religious observances. If neither of you are religious. This might not be an issue. However, if you are of different piety or faiths, be sure to address this.
Think about family vacations as well. Some students take ski or Disney trips with their parents or grandparents outside of scheduled school breaks. Are you ok with these?

OP here. Neither of us is religious. The only holidays we celebrate other than birthdays are usually granted off as federal holidays anyway. I am not generally okay with vacations outside of school breaks. There are plenty of holidays from school, and for the last few years, we have often had to struggle and juggle to identify camps or take vacation time to cover those weeks. My opinion is that he can wait to go on a week long trip to Mexico until winter break, spring break, or summer break. It doesn't need to happen in the middle of October.

What are finances like? It could be the vacation is much cheaper since it's not during peak vacation times when most schools are out of session?

[Anonymous]

Put it in the agreement that both parents need to agree, in writing, to keep DC out of school for vacation on what are otherwise normal school days. But you should be somewhat flexible about this, in my opinion, since reasonable people disagree about whether it's ok to miss a day here and there for travel. Maybe just put a limit on how many days he can do this.

[Anonymous]

As a practical matter, you can put anything you want into the custody agreement. But, for occasional and minor deviations from the agreement, there isn't going to be a thing that you can do. It is prohibitively expensive to take your ex to court so you aren't likely to do it over something like this. And, even if you did, most judges are going to read you the riot act for wasting the court's time. You might want to focus on reaching some sort of agreement that you can both live with.

FWIW, IMO this is a problem once you hit high school and attendance matters to the grade your child gets in the class. (Grades are lowered for unexcused absences). It might also matter in MS for tests, but the consequences of a lower grade are not so great. As far as ES, well, except for things that are important to your child, like certain parties and field trips, it probably doesn't matter to miss some school unless your child is a struggling student. And, remember, there might come a time when something important comes up for you and you want to take your daughter out of school.

I guess what I am saying is that you should probably try to re-channel your energy into something that you can control and save your fights for those things that really matter.

[Anonymous]

I agree with PP. Retinal your energy into something more productive. You are actually coparenting with a man who wants to spend high quality time (vacations) with his kid. Focus on the wonderful benefits that your DC will reap from having a loving and involved dad.

I am living the flip side of your problem. I have my DS 95% of the time and his father tried to get out of his custody time every chance he gets. It makes my life easier in that I don't have to run any decisions by him (because he just really isn't involved or interested at this point), but DS lacks the love and support of a truly involved father.

Coparenting with an ex who is actively involved is much harder for you. It means that there will be many disagreements about what is best and what is acceptable. When you run into these issues, try to step back and ask yourself, "What is in the best interests of DC" as opposed to "What do I think is the best way to parent".

When we divorce, we lose the right to make unilateral decisions about parenting issues. As PP pointed out, missing school for trips is something that reasonable people disagree on. Many people feel that the value of travel in terms of a learning and cultural experience outweighs a little missed time from school. Others, like you, feel that education should be the #1 priority. Both sides have valid points. Neither side is right or wrong.

Good luck, OP. Exes are a pain in the ass -- but at least he is an involved and loving father.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Put it in the agreement that both parents need to agree, in writing, to keep DC out of school for vacation on what are otherwise normal school days. But you should be somewhat flexible about this, in my opinion, since reasonable people disagree about whether it's ok to miss a day here and there for travel. Maybe just put a limit on how many days he can do this.

Very practical, and reflects both parents priorities, which are not the same in this instance.

[Anonymous]

OP here.

1. I would be more willing to be flexible if he was at least notifying me that he was keeping her out of school. Last year, several times, I found out about this because the school called me. In the situation we're in right now, I actually found out about the weekend trip from DD (she is 6). Ex and I were communicating about something else and he mentioned that they were leaving on Thursday evening. It's not clear to me that he ever would have told me. The weekend trip is out of state, to see his girlfriend's family. They have made the trip before, but he has always informed me.

2. I don't think this is a finances issue. He is well off and more or less debt free (unless he has developed a gambling problem in the years since our finances were mingled). I think it's simply a situation where he does not consider her going to school to be important, because she's a smart kid who will inevitably do fine no matter what. Unfortunately because we're out of bounds at our school, if she misses too many days, we are at risk of losing our seat. He does not take that seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with PP. Retinal your energy into something more productive. You are actually coparenting with a man who wants to spend high quality time (vacations) with his kid. Focus on the wonderful benefits that your DC will reap from having a loving and involved dad.

I am living the flip side of your problem. I have my DS 95% of the time and his father tried to get out of his custody time every chance he gets. It makes my life easier in that I don't have to run any decisions by him (because he just really isn't involved or interested at this point), but DS lacks the love and support of a truly involved father.

Coparenting with an ex who is actively involved is much harder for you. It means that there will be many disagreements about what is best and what is acceptable. When you run into these issues, try to step back and ask yourself, "What is in the best interests of DC" as opposed to "What do I think is the best way to parent".

When we divorce, we lose the right to make unilateral decisions about parenting issues. As PP pointed out, missing school for trips is something that reasonable people disagree on. Many people feel that the value of travel in terms of a learning and cultural experience outweighs a little missed time from school. Others, like you, feel that education should be the #1 priority. Both sides have valid points. Neither side is right or wrong.

Good luck, OP. Exes are a pain in the ass -- but at least he is an involved and loving father.

Thank you for this reminder. Generally, I agree with you. I guess my bottom line is that if he's taking her out of state, I should at the very least be notified about it. He does not seem to think that that is important, despite it being in the agreement we already have. Given some other structural changes in his life lately, I thought it would make sense to revise the agreement and wanted to address these things in that revised agreement.

Fortunately I already have a call scheduled with my lawyer, so I will just ask her

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

1. I would be more willing to be flexible if he was at least notifying me that he was keeping her out of school. Last year, several times, I found out about this because the school called me. In the situation we're in right now, I actually found out about the weekend trip from DD (she is 6). Ex and I were communicating about something else and he mentioned that they were leaving on Thursday evening. It's not clear to me that he ever would have told me. The weekend trip is out of state, to see his girlfriend's family. They have made the trip before, but he has always informed me.

2. I don't think this is a finances issue. He is well off and more or less debt free (unless he has developed a gambling problem in the years since our finances were mingled). I think it's simply a situation where he does not consider her going to school to be important, because she's a smart kid who will inevitably do fine no matter what. Unfortunately because we're out of bounds at our school, if she misses too many days, we are at risk of losing our seat. He does not take that seriously.

I am sympathetic with you in the sense that I think it's important to establish the principle now that you can't skip school. But, I can also see the Dad's perspective -- she's smart, she's not missing anything academically, so what's the problem? If kids are going to be pulled out of school, elementary is the time to do it, especially if they are bright, because then they really aren't missing anything.

What's the situation with homework? Is he asking for it before he goes on the trip? Is he making her do it on his time? Or is that burden falling on you? If the latter, then I would handle it thus -- when the teacher or school calls and asks, "where is the child," I would simply say, "I am not the custodial parent right now, you have to contact my ex-husband at phone #. He is the one that is supposed to be bringing her to school. My custody resumes on X date, and I can assure you she will be in school when she is back in my custody and I'd be happy to work with you then. Until then, please discuss any ramifications of missed school and a plan to make up work with him."

Unfortunately, he really doesn't have to inform you about any of his activities on his custody tiime. I agree informing you about going out of state is a courteous thing to do, but many people aren't courteous.

I would simply write him an email on the subject. Acknowledge up front that you support his taking DD on vacations, but you hope in the future he can keep it to non-school times. Then provide a written copy of any documentation showing any school policies on unexcused absences as well as the terms of your out-of-boundary seat. Most schools have something written on what does or does not constitute an excused school absences and what the consequences are (loss of credit in HS, not much of a consequence in ES other than your specific situation of being out of boundaries and possibly losing a seat). Truancy charges are a very remote possibility at this age, so I really wouldn't raise that as an issue, it just makes it look like you are creating drama. In any case, if it ever got to the point that truancy charges are brought, it only works against continued custody for your ex. Ask if he is going to miss school with her that he let you and the school know and that he get DD's homework and make it up with her on his time. It's really not fair for you to have to spend your custody time making up homework that wasn't done because she was out of school.

What happens if you lose the seat at this school? Where would DD have to go? Is that preferable for him? Is pulling her out some way of getting what he wants in a roundabout way?

Honestly, if it gets to the stage where she is in danger of losing the seat, you will have notice and ability to appeal. In preparation for that situation, I would just make sure she has never missed school in your custody and use the situation to change custody or get something written in the order. It's very unlikely that a school will eject a smart non-troublemaking DD once they understand that a lame parent is the problem.

Bottom line -- yes it's crappy parenting, no he's not ever going to acknowledge that, yes DD will pay a certain price, but it's unlikely to be anything serious and if it becomes that you will likely have options to appeal. So, just document. Polite emails every time DD misses school saying you really think it's important she's there and hopes he can plan differently next time.

[Anonymous]

You have two issues -- first, that you aren't getting notified when DD is being taken out of school/out of the state and second that you feel she's missing too much school.

To solve the first problem, just put in a clause that you have to notify each other if DD will be out of DC metro area or removed from school. You don't need permission, you just get notification. This is very standard.

To solve the second problem, put in language where you each two two 'freebie' days to take DD out of school for whatever reason you feel like. Any additional days need to be agreed upon by the parents. I wouldn't back yourself into a corner and require mutual agreement for all days.

FWIW, I take my kids out of school for vacations. They're still young and I think the vacation time with family is important enough to justify the absence. I don't do it often though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a practical matter, you can put anything you want into the custody agreement. But, for occasional and minor deviations from the agreement, there isn't going to be a thing that you can do. It is prohibitively expensive to take your ex to court so you aren't likely to do it over something like this. And, even if you did, most judges are going to read you the riot act for wasting the court's time. You might want to focus on reaching some sort of agreement that you can both live with.

FWIW, IMO this is a problem once you hit high school and attendance matters to the grade your child gets in the class. (Grades are lowered for unexcused absences). It might also matter in MS for tests, but the consequences of a lower grade are not so great. As far as ES, well, except for things that are important to your child, like certain parties and field trips, it probably doesn't matter to miss some school unless your child is a struggling student. And, remember, there might come a time when something important comes up for you and you want to take your daughter out of school.

I guess what I am saying is that you should probably try to re-channel your energy into something that you can control and save your fights for those things that really matter.

+1000