I’m a liberal democrat horrified by the current Dr Seuss drama and normalization of censorship

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ a)I want the right to complain about something without my motives being questioned each and every time I make any type of complaint.
b) I want some consensus or rational standard for what is racist and what is not because we sure as hell don't have it now.

The alternative is we talk this through, somehow. But that doesn't happen anymore, anywhere. And if people think they are right and everyone else is wrong, so shove it, don't be so surprised next time someone shoves back.“

You sure don’t like free speech. Maybe start with understanding what that means. Expect pushback, expect people to question your motives. Expect people to ask you why you don’t think something is racist if you loudly protest that it isn’t. Seriously. Listen to yourself. You want consensus? Geez. Not gonna happen. So many mental gymnastics because you can’t admit that maybe you were blind.

Seriously, you are full of it. NOBODY was interested in a serious discussion on this thread. And nowhere else too. OF COURSE I expect pushback. And the way shove, you'll get a harder pushback next time. I told you what I want, and still think I didn't mean it. That's your blindness, which you can't admit yourself either. As long as you do that, people will do it to you, worse and worse each time. Where does end? None of you seem to have thought about that. Time for you to self reflect.

You don’t seem to understand what I wrote. You said you want to complain without anyone questioning your motives. That’s not how free speech works. You want a consensus on what racism means, also not how freedom of thought works. The books have really questionable and racist content in them, if you’ve even looked. If you have and don’t see it, expect a lot of people to disagree.

I did look. The point is that anyone who does question it gets called racist or otherwise doing something dufferent, not given an explanation. Read this thread if you think you are doing something different. If that's how you choose to use your free speech that's up to you of course. Good for you. You struck a blow against racism. Yeah, right.

Holy haddock, you just want an explanation why stereotypes are racist? JFC, you could have just asked that question. Here’s a good explainer: https://www.verywellmind.com/harmful-psychological-effects-of-racial-stereotyping-5069394 TLDR: everyone stereotypes (it’s evolutionary! brains like shortcuts!). But stereotypes can become generalizations. Left unexamined, these generalizations can affect how we actually treat people in the real world. So ask yourself: do we really need stereotypes in children’s books?

There is no evidence that seeing this type of image causes racist behavior. The article said that, pointed out some plausible examples, many of which were overt messages rather than just pictures, but did not provide any real evidence because. It's all totally subjective. It's their own stereorype about how people form stereotypes. Even when you look in the academic literature. I looked, it isn't their and they admit the standard is subjective, so the academics just decide based on their own subjective guess then try to convince others they are right.

So get either get me a rational standard or admit it's subjective.

My bad. I thought you were asking in good faith. I should have known better than to try to engage with someone who knows everything and has nothing to learn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:a) I want the right to complain about something without my motives being questioned each and every time I make any type of complaint.
b) I want some consensus or rational standard for what is racist and what is not because we sure as hell don't have it now.

The alternative is we talk this through, somehow. But that doesn't happen anymore, anywhere. And if people think they are right and everyone else is wrong, so shove it, don't be so surprised next time someone shoves back.

1) You have the right to complain about whatever you want. You do not have the right to do so without your motives being questioned. In the same way that if you shouted a racist comment at a coworker, the government isn’t going to come get you, but you will face consequences.

2) Hon. HON. If you had bothered to read the press about this, the publisher (a private enterprise) met with multiple groups (I’m guessing Asian American groups and Black people) who probably said something like, “These stereotypes and racist images are harmful to our children and their sense of pride in who they are. We find this hurtful both on a personal level and it’s something that’s harming society.”

Why do you need “consensus” to know what’s racist? Stereotypes are pretty generally acknowledged to be racist. They’re not shouting N-word or saying that Black people are inferior and would be better off as slaves again racist, but they’re low-key racist. Can you at least acknowledge that? Can you acknowledge that if someone who is Black or Asian is hurt by words or actions that would should probably take their word for it?

I don't want my motives questions because it's itself offensive then I'll just fall back on claiming that the publisher simply bowed to a wokish demands with a performative gesture that changes nothing, and those groups they met with did not care either, they just want to look like they are representing their group's interests rather than really help them.

[Anonymous]

OP has an opinion guys! It’s a bad one but let’s make sure she feels safe and congratulate her instead of telling her we disagree. Snowflake needs a cookie.

[Anonymous]

The first book of an all time great author and illustrator has been removed from print due to political pressure. For those trying to claim this is some sort of commercial decision - take a look at Amazon's Best Seller List.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ a)I want the right to complain about something without my motives being questioned each and every time I make any type of complaint.
b) I want some consensus or rational standard for what is racist and what is not because we sure as hell don't have it now.

The alternative is we talk this through, somehow. But that doesn't happen anymore, anywhere. And if people think they are right and everyone else is wrong, so shove it, don't be so surprised next time someone shoves back.“

You sure don’t like free speech. Maybe start with understanding what that means. Expect pushback, expect people to question your motives. Expect people to ask you why you don’t think something is racist if you loudly protest that it isn’t. Seriously. Listen to yourself. You want consensus? Geez. Not gonna happen. So many mental gymnastics because you can’t admit that maybe you were blind.

Seriously, you are full of it. NOBODY was interested in a serious discussion on this thread. And nowhere else too. OF COURSE I expect pushback. And the way shove, you'll get a harder pushback next time. I told you what I want, and still think I didn't mean it. That's your blindness, which you can't admit yourself either. As long as you do that, people will do it to you, worse and worse each time. Where does end? None of you seem to have thought about that. Time for you to self reflect.

You don’t seem to understand what I wrote. You said you want to complain without anyone questioning your motives. That’s not how free speech works. You want a consensus on what racism means, also not how freedom of thought works. The books have really questionable and racist content in them, if you’ve even looked. If you have and don’t see it, expect a lot of people to disagree.

I did look. The point is that anyone who does question it gets called racist or otherwise doing something dufferent, not given an explanation. Read this thread if you think you are doing something different. If that's how you choose to use your free speech that's up to you of course. Good for you. You struck a blow against racism. Yeah, right.

Holy haddock, you just want an explanation why stereotypes are racist? JFC, you could have just asked that question. Here’s a good explainer: https://www.verywellmind.com/harmful-psychological-effects-of-racial-stereotyping-5069394 TLDR: everyone stereotypes (it’s evolutionary! brains like shortcuts!). But stereotypes can become generalizations. Left unexamined, these generalizations can affect how we actually treat people in the real world. So ask yourself: do we really need stereotypes in children’s books?

There is no evidence that seeing this type of image causes racist behavior. The article said that, pointed out some plausible examples, many of which were overt messages rather than just pictures, but did not provide any real evidence because. It's all totally subjective. It's their own stereorype about how people form stereotypes. Even when you look in the academic literature. I looked, it isn't their and they admit the standard is subjective, so the academics just decide based on their own subjective guess then try to convince others they are right.

So get either get me a rational standard or admit it's subjective.

My bad. I thought you were asking in good faith. I should have known better than to try to engage with someone who knows everything and has nothing to learn.

No you did not believe you were speaking to someone acting in good faith. I disagreed with the article and you just can't handle that. You don't bieve such a good faith disagreement is possible, which means you had bad faith all along.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The first book of an all time great author and illustrator has been removed from print due to political pressure. For those trying to claim this is some sort of commercial decision - take a look at Amazon's Best Seller List.

Lol! Because all of the repukes are rushing out to buy them and sell them on eBay to turn a profit. Man. Always a grift. Always.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The first book of an all time great author and illustrator has been removed from print due to political pressure. For those trying to claim this is some sort of commercial decision - take a look at Amazon's Best Seller List.

I see a list of Dr. Seuss books that aren't the ones they're not publishing. That doesn't prove that any of these books were selling well. The new Stephen King is on the list, but that's not an argument for putting Rage back in print.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The first book of an all time great author and illustrator has been removed from print due to political pressure. For those trying to claim this is some sort of commercial decision - take a look at Amazon's Best Seller List.

This has already been discussed. Try to keep up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The first book of an all time great author and illustrator has been removed from print due to political pressure. For those trying to claim this is some sort of commercial decision - take a look at Amazon's Best Seller List.

This has already been discussed. Try to keep up.

It has, and you are being called out once again on your political motives, as is the publisher

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The first book of an all time great author and illustrator has been removed from print due to political pressure. For those trying to claim this is some sort of commercial decision - take a look at Amazon's Best Seller List.

I see a list of Dr. Seuss books that aren't the ones they're not publishing. That doesn't prove that any of these books were selling well. The new Stephen King is on the list, but that's not an argument for putting Rage back in print.

He didn't pull the book for political reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ a)I want the right to complain about something without my motives being questioned each and every time I make any type of complaint.
b) I want some consensus or rational standard for what is racist and what is not because we sure as hell don't have it now.

The alternative is we talk this through, somehow. But that doesn't happen anymore, anywhere. And if people think they are right and everyone else is wrong, so shove it, don't be so surprised next time someone shoves back.“

You sure don’t like free speech. Maybe start with understanding what that means. Expect pushback, expect people to question your motives. Expect people to ask you why you don’t think something is racist if you loudly protest that it isn’t. Seriously. Listen to yourself. You want consensus? Geez. Not gonna happen. So many mental gymnastics because you can’t admit that maybe you were blind.

Seriously, you are full of it. NOBODY was interested in a serious discussion on this thread. And nowhere else too. OF COURSE I expect pushback. And the way shove, you'll get a harder pushback next time. I told you what I want, and still think I didn't mean it. That's your blindness, which you can't admit yourself either. As long as you do that, people will do it to you, worse and worse each time. Where does end? None of you seem to have thought about that. Time for you to self reflect.

You don’t seem to understand what I wrote. You said you want to complain without anyone questioning your motives. That’s not how free speech works. You want a consensus on what racism means, also not how freedom of thought works. The books have really questionable and racist content in them, if you’ve even looked. If you have and don’t see it, expect a lot of people to disagree.

I did look. The point is that anyone who does question it gets called racist or otherwise doing something dufferent, not given an explanation. Read this thread if you think you are doing something different. If that's how you choose to use your free speech that's up to you of course. Good for you. You struck a blow against racism. Yeah, right.

Holy haddock, you just want an explanation why stereotypes are racist? JFC, you could have just asked that question. Here’s a good explainer: https://www.verywellmind.com/harmful-psychological-effects-of-racial-stereotyping-5069394 TLDR: everyone stereotypes (it’s evolutionary! brains like shortcuts!). But stereotypes can become generalizations. Left unexamined, these generalizations can affect how we actually treat people in the real world. So ask yourself: do we really need stereotypes in children’s books?

There is no evidence that seeing this type of image causes racist behavior. The article said that, pointed out some plausible examples, many of which were overt messages rather than just pictures, but did not provide any real evidence because. It's all totally subjective. It's their own stereorype about how people form stereotypes. Even when you look in the academic literature. I looked, it isn't their and they admit the standard is subjective, so the academics just decide based on their own subjective guess then try to convince others they are right.

So get either get me a rational standard or admit it's subjective.

My bad. I thought you were asking in good faith. I should have known better than to try to engage with someone who knows everything and has nothing to learn.

No you did not believe you were speaking to someone acting in good faith. I disagreed with the article and you just can't handle that. You don't bieve such a good faith disagreement is possible, which means you had bad faith all along.

No, truly I thought you might read something about an issue that you indicated you were ignorant of. It’s not just that you disagreed with the article, it’s that you just glibly dismissed it because you’re looking for some totally objective definition. But only you are the arbiter of objective, because again, you know everything and have nothing to learn. Even though studies repeatedly show that subjective stereotypes contribute to objectively worse outcomes, you know it everything.

So the next time someone calls you a racist, please know: you’ve earned it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The first book of an all time great author and illustrator has been removed from print due to political pressure. For those trying to claim this is some sort of commercial decision - take a look at Amazon's Best Seller List.

Lol! Because all of the repukes are rushing out to buy them and sell them on eBay to turn a profit. Man. Always a grift. Always.

This is in an unsupported fact, although this does make a profit for the publisher too, so perhaps a different grifter?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The first book of an all time great author and illustrator has been removed from print due to political pressure. For those trying to claim this is some sort of commercial decision - take a look at Amazon's Best Seller List.

This has already been discussed. Try to keep up.

It has, and you are being called out once again on your political motives, as is the publisher

Political? No. But yes, the motive was to refrain from profiting off of racist content. No one has said otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The first book of an all time great author and illustrator has been removed from print due to political pressure. For those trying to claim this is some sort of commercial decision - take a look at Amazon's Best Seller List.

This has already been discussed. Try to keep up.

It has, and you are being called out once again on your political motives, as is the publisher

Eh. Go read the only book in your possession, a tatty old copy of Little Black Sambo. Hey, it’s only subjective, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The first book of an all time great author and illustrator has been removed from print due to political pressure. For those trying to claim this is some sort of commercial decision - take a look at Amazon's Best Seller List.

I see a list of Dr. Seuss books that aren't the ones they're not publishing. That doesn't prove that any of these books were selling well. The new Stephen King is on the list, but that's not an argument for putting Rage back in print.

He didn't pull the book for political reasons.

Are you familiar with Rage? It's a book about a school shooting that King allowed to fall out of print for explicitly political reasons. Maybe try Googling before you speak if you don't know what you're talking about next time.