Kobe Bryant killed in helicopter crash (per TMZ)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Only entitled white feminists are dragging Kobe's name through the mud right now. Could not even let the flames cool off before going straight into the agenda. What a vile bunch.

I don’t know...I wouldn’t start guessing on who is besmirching him. I’m white female feminist (not angry!) and I’ve been defending his legacy against criticism.

I am not white, but am a feminist and am defending his legacy too.

For feminists of color, particularly black feminists, it is more complicated because they grasp how important of a figure Kobe was and what he meant for communities of color and their sons, fathers, boyfriends, brothers etc. It is devastating for them.

I don’t understand why people keep bringing race into this. I could understand why he should be given the benefit of the doubt if the evidence against him was less credible. However, the forensic evidence is against him and he himself even admitted in his apology statement that although he believed at the time it was consensual, he now understands why she doesn’t see it that way. He did it, he raped her.

Most thinking people do not disagree on that. But because he was black, we shouldn’t bring that up?

See the post above you. It was the immediacy with which they sought to diminish him and the singularity of their focus. When there is a history in this country of diminishing, targeting and even assassinating prominent people of color, they approach these issues with a little more hesitancy. When there is a rampant problem of black masculinity and a startling dearth of black male figures in homes and for children, they are a little less inclined to tear down a strong, black, accomplished male icon that served as an inspiration to so many in the absence of their fathers and older brothers. When you are living that on a day to day basis, you need your heroes and your myths to keep you going. To keep that glimmer of hope. To see that one of you made it. Much of this is lost on some white feminists that want to clout chase and score metoo points.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Worth watching what Stephen Colbert, who lost his father and two brothers in a plane crash, had to say about this. It was not what I expected.

Interesting - thanks for posting.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Is it not all a part of his legacy?

If now isn’t the time to talk about it (and I’m not saying it is), at which magical date can we discuss the hard part?

They started literally a few hours after the crash when it wasn't even confirmed who else even died in the crash. It is vile behavior.

Raping someone is a vile behaviour. Cheating on a wife is a vile behaviour. No one is saying that his death is not a profound loss to his family and fans. His wife is struggling with the death of a spouse and an offspring. There are other families that have been impacted too and one mom has left behind three little kids. From a human perspective it is heart breaking.

You toss around that label very easily for someone that was not there and has no idea what really happened.

Would you condone people bringing up MLK's adultery mere hours after he died?

In this day and age? It would be absolutely be discussed I n the same manner as Kobe is being discussed. And guess what? I am sure Kobe knew that he carried this blight forever.

I asked if YOU would condone it. You did not answer.

Oh, absolutely. Those who think that MLK was to be judged for his adultry (which at least have two consenting adults) should be allowed to discuss it and think about it after his death. If it was already public knowledge, what is the point of trying to close the stable door once the horse is bolted?

Within hours of his assassination? Well, God bless you and keep you then. That's all I will say.

Was Kobe assassinated? Or was it the hubris of a uber-wealthy person who took his kid to practice on a helicopter in foul weather? Eventually, many other people lost their lives because of this bad behaviour.
What were the mores of the time when MLK was assassinated? Did people have 24/7 social media and news coverage? No. At that time, news came from news channels. If his marital affairs was common knowledge and had as much publicity as Kobe's rape case and social media was as prevelant, then there was no reason for MLK to not be similarly discussed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it not all a part of his legacy?

If now isn’t the time to talk about it (and I’m not saying it is), at which magical date can we discuss the hard part?

Sure. When his youngest has graduated college.

Ha ha. So what would he have told his daughters about protecting themselves from sexual assault? I am sure that conversation had to happen sometime sooner than college, right?

Victim was 19 year old woman. His oldest daughter is a 17 year old woman now, and was 5 months old when this happened.

You do realize that the conversation and norms around consent have changed pretty dramatically since 2003 don't you? I'm pretty sure "no means no" was en vogue and now it's "yes means yes" and enthusiastic, continuous consent, I think. I can't even keep up. Kobe himself has evolved as a person since then, as well.

There are many men I know of all age groups who have not been accused of rape, ever. He was accused of rape when it happened, according to the mores of that time. Today, he would have been rotting behind bars. He was one lucky guy who had a narrow escape from the jaws of justice, and his life went on with all the accolades, fame, wealth and blessings that was promised by his amazing talent. I think he was very, very blessed and had an amazing life. The sadness is truly for the survivors.

Key word: accused. How old are you? And do you have children? I guarantee you far more of your sons/daughters peers will have been accused of rape then previous generations. Norms have and are changing. My uber driver the other day was telling me about an issue her middle school teacher sibling was facing with all of the girls accusing the boys. Society will adjust.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it not all a part of his legacy?

If now isn’t the time to talk about it (and I’m not saying it is), at which magical date can we discuss the hard part?

They started literally a few hours after the crash when it wasn't even confirmed who else even died in the crash. It is vile behavior.

Raping someone is a vile behaviour. Cheating on a wife is a vile behaviour. No one is saying that his death is not a profound loss to his family and fans. His wife is struggling with the death of a spouse and an offspring. There are other families that have been impacted too and one mom has left behind three little kids. From a human perspective it is heart breaking.

You toss around that label very easily for someone that was not there and has no idea what really happened.

Would you condone people bringing up MLK's adultery mere hours after he died?

In this day and age? It would be absolutely be discussed I n the same manner as Kobe is being discussed. And guess what? I am sure Kobe knew that he carried this blight forever.

I asked if YOU would condone it. You did not answer.

Oh, absolutely. Those who think that MLK was to be judged for his adultry (which at least have two consenting adults) should be allowed to discuss it and think about it after his death. If it was already public knowledge, what is the point of trying to close the stable door once the horse is bolted?

Within hours of his assassination? Well, God bless you and keep you then. That's all I will say.

Was Kobe assassinated? Or was it the hubris of a uber-wealthy person who took his kid to practice on a helicopter in foul weather? Eventually, many other people lost their lives because of this bad behaviour.
What were the mores of the time when MLK was assassinated? Did people have 24/7 social media and news coverage? No. At that time, news came from news channels. If his marital affairs was common knowledge and had as much publicity as Kobe's rape case and social media was as prevelant, then there was no reason for MLK to not be similarly discussed.

Don't be obtuse, I was talking about MLK's assassination. Missing a daughter's school play is what triggered Kobe to start using a helicopter in the first place. You are blaming Kobe for the loss of those lives from what was likely caused by the pilot's error and bad weather? Goodness. People like you are the reason the culture is going to the gutter. God bless!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it not all a part of his legacy?

If now isn’t the time to talk about it (and I’m not saying it is), at which magical date can we discuss the hard part?

They started literally a few hours after the crash when it wasn't even confirmed who else even died in the crash. It is vile behavior.

Raping someone is a vile behaviour. Cheating on a wife is a vile behaviour. No one is saying that his death is not a profound loss to his family and fans. His wife is struggling with the death of a spouse and an offspring. There are other families that have been impacted too and one mom has left behind three little kids. From a human perspective it is heart breaking.

You toss around that label very easily for someone that was not there and has no idea what really happened.

Would you condone people bringing up MLK's adultery mere hours after he died?

In this day and age? It would be absolutely be discussed I n the same manner as Kobe is being discussed. And guess what? I am sure Kobe knew that he carried this blight forever.

I asked if YOU would condone it. You did not answer.

Oh, absolutely. Those who think that MLK was to be judged for his adultry (which at least have two consenting adults) should be allowed to discuss it and think about it after his death. If it was already public knowledge, what is the point of trying to close the stable door once the horse is bolted?

Within hours of his assassination? Well, God bless you and keep you then. That's all I will say.

Was Kobe assassinated? Or was it the hubris of a uber-wealthy person who took his kid to practice on a helicopter in foul weather? Eventually, many other people lost their lives because of this bad behaviour.
What were the mores of the time when MLK was assassinated? Did people have 24/7 social media and news coverage? No. At that time, news came from news channels. If his marital affairs was common knowledge and had as much publicity as Kobe's rape case and social media was as prevelant, then there was no reason for MLK to not be similarly discussed.

Wow, who knew that Kobe forced people to ride in the helicopter with him!

[Anonymous]

The pilot thread cited earlier had a lot of interesting and technical discussion. They mostly agree it’s bad weather complicated by “get-there-itis”’common in VIP trips. So sad.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Ok, so he's a HERO because:

He played basketball really well.
He's an attentive and loving father
Good friend
Helps out those less fortunate than himself.

Sounds like basically all the dads and frankly moms I know except for the basketball part.

If you'd like to see some real heroes, like actual people selflessly working for the good of mankind check out Pandemic on Netflix and check your priorities. I know science is harder than basketball for a lot of people but these people are sacrificing and working and risking their lives sometimes to save our species, but yeah let the millions mourn a basketball player who might be a rapist.

And then some wonder why we are where we are as a nation.

You have no idea what you are talking about, nor do you truly grasp the cultural importance of Kobe. Step out of your bubble.

So what has he done that every other generally good person and parent does except play basketball and be generous on a larger scale? And stop with the bubble baloney - that's a lame, meaningless argument for someone who doesn't have a cogent rebuttal.

Do you even watch sports? You honestly sound clueless.

Kobe has inspired millions of people around the world. Literally a global phenomenon. Only a special few have had such a drive for excellence and will to succeed at such a high level and utilized their public platform to evangelize that ethic. He made many, many people want to be better versions of themselves. He was an exemplar for many black men and boys about how to conduct yourself in public, work hard for your goals, bounce back from adversity. He was just beginning to do the same in other arenas. He meant so, so much to so many. Sometimes an athlete is more than just an athlete. Sometimes a singer is more than just a singer. Sometimes an artist is more than just an artist. Do not seek to diminish that which you do not understand.

Yes I watch sports, but I'm smart enough not to deify people who have a talent. Bono works hard too. He nurtured his talent to great reward. Telling people to work hard is hardly a new message and I guarantee you the fools chanting outside the Staples Center are not using the "mamba mindset" every day. If he's an example to black men I don't know how impressive that is. I guess how to use your privilege to get away with rape maybe and what adversity - getting caught raping a girl? Good ball player, but no better a person than anyone else on that plane - he just had a larger platform. I can list 10 black men who were better and more valuable role models but no, they aren't flashy which I guess to some makes them boring and thus less inspiring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, so he's a HERO because:

He played basketball really well.
He's an attentive and loving father
Good friend
Helps out those less fortunate than himself.

Sounds like basically all the dads and frankly moms I know except for the basketball part.

If you'd like to see some real heroes, like actual people selflessly working for the good of mankind check out Pandemic on Netflix and check your priorities. I know science is harder than basketball for a lot of people but these people are sacrificing and working and risking their lives sometimes to save our species, but yeah let the millions mourn a basketball player who might be a rapist.

And then some wonder why we are where we are as a nation.

You have no idea what you are talking about, nor do you truly grasp the cultural importance of Kobe. Step out of your bubble.

So what has he done that every other generally good person and parent does except play basketball and be generous on a larger scale? And stop with the bubble baloney - that's a lame, meaningless argument for someone who doesn't have a cogent rebuttal.

Do you even watch sports? You honestly sound clueless.

Kobe has inspired millions of people around the world. Literally a global phenomenon. Only a special few have had such a drive for excellence and will to succeed at such a high level and utilized their public platform to evangelize that ethic. He made many, many people want to be better versions of themselves. He was an exemplar for many black men and boys about how to conduct yourself in public, work hard for your goals, bounce back from adversity. He was just beginning to do the same in other arenas. He meant so, so much to so many. Sometimes an athlete is more than just an athlete. Sometimes a singer is more than just a singer. Sometimes an artist is more than just an artist. Do not seek to diminish that which you do not understand.

Yes I watch sports, but I'm smart enough not to deify people who have a talent. Bono works hard too. He nurtured his talent to great reward. Telling people to work hard is hardly a new message and I guarantee you the fools chanting outside the Staples Center are not using the "mamba mindset" every day. If he's an example to black men I don't know how impressive that is. I guess how to use your privilege to get away with rape maybe and what adversity - getting caught raping a girl? Good ball player, but no better a person than anyone else on that plane - he just had a larger platform. I can list 10 black men who were better and more valuable role models but no, they aren't flashy which I guess to some makes them boring and thus less inspiring.

Yup clueless and ignorant. Just because people’s values don’t align with yours doesn’t mean you are right. Many many many many many black men look up to Kobe. Nobody cares about your list. Step outside of your bubble. It’s a big world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it not all a part of his legacy?

If now isn’t the time to talk about it (and I’m not saying it is), at which magical date can we discuss the hard part?

Sure. When his youngest has graduated college.

Ha ha. So what would he have told his daughters about protecting themselves from sexual assault? I am sure that conversation had to happen sometime sooner than college, right?

Victim was 19 year old woman. His oldest daughter is a 17 year old woman now, and was 5 months old when this happened.

You do realize that the conversation and norms around consent have changed pretty dramatically since 2003 don't you? I'm pretty sure "no means no" was en vogue and now it's "yes means yes" and enthusiastic, continuous consent, I think. I can't even keep up. Kobe himself has evolved as a person since then, as well.

There are many men I know of all age groups who have not been accused of rape, ever. He was accused of rape when it happened, according to the mores of that time. Today, he would have been rotting behind bars. He was one lucky guy who had a narrow escape from the jaws of justice, and his life went on with all the accolades, fame, wealth and blessings that was promised by his amazing talent. I think he was very, very blessed and had an amazing life. The sadness is truly for the survivors.

Sure. But by today's standard s most men are rapists... I don't know any men that didn't have sex with a woman who was too drunk to consent.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Why is everyone forgetting that he was accused if rape?

Oh please, nobody’s forgetting it. It’s unforgettable. His rape case in Colorado was one of the biggest news stories in recent years and it never fully faded from folks memory. What is forgotten, however, is his apology.

Go back and read it.

Neil Irvin, director of the organization Men Can Stop Rape, said this about Bryant’s apology in 2016 when the Lakers star retired...

”Kobe is the only accused individual who I’ve ever seen provide an apology in writing in my 16 years of doing rape prevention work. I read it and it fits with what I know about rape: survivors don’t lie. I know we’ve been taught to believe they do but that’s a story which only serves to empower rapists. Kobe’s apology actually serves to push against the idea that survivors lie. He’s saying the opposite.”

Ben Roethlisberger, Patrick Kane, Jameison Winston, and numerous other sports icons have been accused of sexual assault and they all took the same stance when charged...the victim is lying. Even beloved player and now Nationwide pitchman Peyton Manning, whom a female trainer at the University of Tennessee once charged with shoving his naked ass in her face, took the all too familiar route of deny, deny, deny.

Go read Kobe’s apology, which if the case had gone to trial most certainly would have been used by prosecutors against him because it’s essentially an admission. You know his attorney’s advised their client against it but he did it anyway. Why? Why risk losing the livelihood and lifelong dream of being a professional athlete, why risk going to prison? Why not just take the routine stance of denial and calling the victim a liar?

Go read his apology and ask yourself is that typical of the one-dimensional monster you so adamantly insist he is.

So if you apologize for raping someone then it's all good?

This is such bullshit.

He's a rapist.

The way I read his apology was that there was enough there that a guilty verdict in court was possible. And he didn’t want to go to court anyway. His apology was part of the settlement. Not a legal expert but I felt like he was forced to say that.

I think you need to do more reading. The forensic evidence strongly suggests that he forcibly raped her. He himself later came as close as possible to admitting that while still maintaining his essential innocence which is bullshit by the way (I'm sorry you're offended. I'm sorry you feel that I raped you).

https://www.thedailybeast.com/kobe-bryants-disturbing-rape-case-the-dna-evidence-the-accusers-story-and-the-half-confession

He raped her and the system let him get away with it but because he's a black super star athlete who later had a bunch of daughters and did some nice things for women's basketball, we're racist if we bring that up.

PP who wrote the bolded. I was saying that the apology doesn’t mean he is somehow better than the others mentioned or had some epiphany. Only that he was forced to apologize because of the evidence or it might have gone to court. I don’t know if he did it or not. Sounds to me like he did.

[Anonymous]

I’ve lived in LA for 20 years and have never once cheered for Lobe Bryant, due to his past. I’m very very sad for kids kids, but I’m not going to pretend now that I care about him. He is a rapist and I’m not sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve lived in LA for 20 years and have never once cheered for Lobe Bryant, due to his past. I’m very very sad for kids kids, but I’m not going to pretend now that I care about him. He is a rapist and I’m not sad.

Yeah okay, he was the most popular athlete in the universe at the time of the accusation and oh yeah, they also found someone else’s semen in her underwear. Real credible rape accusation. No money motives there.

[Anonymous]

I don't know whether kobe was a rapist or not, but lol at all these people who say that kobe got away with it because he was rich or that it happened so long ago. People still don't go to jail for rape! You all honestly think people go to prison for rape?

Even in liberal, progressive Austin Tx, each year over 1000 women report sexual assault. Of those only 100 alleged rapists are arrested. And over a several year period only ONE case resulted in a prosecution. And the victim was a man! https://www.thedailybeast.com/no-justice-at-all-class-action-lawsuit-says-austin-officials-failed-female-rape-victims

Point? There's no justice for women who are raped. And while that's the case there will be no peace for men who stand accused, rightly or wrongly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve lived in LA for 20 years and have never once cheered for Lobe Bryant, due to his past. I’m very very sad for kids kids, but I’m not going to pretend now that I care about him. He is a rapist and I’m not sad.

Yeah okay, he was the most popular athlete in the universe at the time of the accusation and oh yeah, they also found someone else’s semen in her underwear. Real credible rape accusation. No money motives there.

I believe her and did you not listen to his apology? Give me a break. I live in LA and work with celebrities. I believe her.