Board of Veterans Appeals (Attorney Advisor)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry I don’t believe half the stories on here about bva. Someone here has an agenda

+1

I did work there and while a lot of the scary stories are really outdated and overblown, the general vibe I got from this thread to keep my eyes open served me well. I kept my eyes on the exits and had the opportunity to leave well before the end of my first year.

I had a nice judge and met lots of nice people, but I got the vibe that there is a lack of stability with supervisor turnover. I didn’t like the work - it was okay. I was not going to have to work overtime to get it done and a lot of people don’t - people love to swap efficiency tips and your supervisor wants to know you are working hard to make quota and will help you if you are not a pain to them. They like to help you set goals and prioritize, so play the game.

Basically, though, there was nothing I saw that made me want to stay there. I didn’t want to do a rotation to KM because I’d risk losing my awesome judge. I didn’t want to become a supervisor in charge of 40 attorneys working for 4 different judges. I didn’t want to become a judge.

I got out and while I don’t dig the fear-mongering posts on here, I owe them a debt of gratitude for keeping me grounded and aware.

So apply for the job if your options are limited, but if you take it, do not stop job searching. It may work out for you at BVA and you want to stay but keep those options open until you know you can do the job and know you want to do the job.

Congrats! Did you have other legal experience prior to coming to the BVA? It seems from these posts that bva skills are non transferable.

BVA experience is so specialized that it’s not useful for most attorney positions in both the federal government and the private sector. While BVA experience won’t hurt an attorney, it generally doesn’t help. Most of the people who left BVA joined SSA as decision writers. BVA attorneys with prior litigation experience have an easier time finding other opportunities. That’s not to say that BVA attorneys with only BVA experience will never be able to transfer to a non-decision writing attorney. Career decision writers can and do find other non-decision writing attorney jobs at other agencies; however, they usually can only qualify for entry level GS-11 non-decision writing attorney positions

only for low prestige ones right? There are decision writer jobs at the USPTO but you have to have gone to a good law school to get that job

I agree that USPTO is more prestigious than BVA and more selective. However, from what I hear, the USPTO trademark examining attorney position is very stressful due to the high quota. BVA appears to be only slightly worse than USPTO. I say worse because while both BVA and USPTO have very high quotas, the level of bullying that *some* judges at BVA engage in is truly next level and career destroying.

I even wrote my law review note, which is published, in a trademark issue. It has been cited in many law review articles, Callmans on Unfair competition, a property law casebook, and I didn’t even get an interview for the trademark examiner job. At least with the BvA I’d have decision writing experience and I could demonstrate an interest in trademark law from my note. It may have made a difference. But then again my law school isn’t a prestige school.

Given your background, you're better off working in the private sector. Don't waste your time at USPTO or BVA.

had a horrible experience in private sector. I would really like a federal job

There is a good chance that you'll have an even worse experience at BVA. For your own sake, work somewhere else. Otherwise, you may be one of the 400 attorneys bemoaning the working conditions at BVA in the next BVA survey.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry I don’t believe half the stories on here about bva. Someone here has an agenda

.

Lol. Okay. I think people are being pretty honest. But unless you’ve been there and talked to a lot of other people who have worked there it’s really hard to grasp the situation. Everyone has different experiences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry I don’t believe half the stories on here about bva. Someone here has an agenda

+1

I did work there and while a lot of the scary stories are really outdated and overblown, the general vibe I got from this thread to keep my eyes open served me well. I kept my eyes on the exits and had the opportunity to leave well before the end of my first year.

I had a nice judge and met lots of nice people, but I got the vibe that there is a lack of stability with supervisor turnover. I didn’t like the work - it was okay. I was not going to have to work overtime to get it done and a lot of people don’t - people love to swap efficiency tips and your supervisor wants to know you are working hard to make quota and will help you if you are not a pain to them. They like to help you set goals and prioritize, so play the game.

Basically, though, there was nothing I saw that made me want to stay there. I didn’t want to do a rotation to KM because I’d risk losing my awesome judge. I didn’t want to become a supervisor in charge of 40 attorneys working for 4 different judges. I didn’t want to become a judge.

I got out and while I don’t dig the fear-mongering posts on here, I owe them a debt of gratitude for keeping me grounded and aware.

So apply for the job if your options are limited, but if you take it, do not stop job searching. It may work out for you at BVA and you want to stay but keep those options open until you know you can do the job and know you want to do the job.

Congrats! Did you have other legal experience prior to coming to the BVA? It seems from these posts that bva skills are non transferable.

BVA experience is so specialized that it’s not useful for most attorney positions in both the federal government and the private sector. While BVA experience won’t hurt an attorney, it generally doesn’t help. Most of the people who left BVA joined SSA as decision writers. BVA attorneys with prior litigation experience have an easier time finding other opportunities. That’s not to say that BVA attorneys with only BVA experience will never be able to transfer to a non-decision writing attorney. Career decision writers can and do find other non-decision writing attorney jobs at other agencies; however, they usually can only qualify for entry level GS-11 non-decision writing attorney positions

only for low prestige ones right? There are decision writer jobs at the USPTO but you have to have gone to a good law school to get that job

I agree that USPTO is more prestigious than BVA and more selective. However, from what I hear, the USPTO trademark examining attorney position is very stressful due to the high quota. BVA appears to be only slightly worse than USPTO. I say worse because while both BVA and USPTO have very high quotas, the level of bullying that *some* judges at BVA engage in is truly next level and career destroying.

I even wrote my law review note, which is published, in a trademark issue. It has been cited in many law review articles, Callmans on Unfair competition, a property law casebook, and I didn’t even get an interview for the trademark examiner job. At least with the BvA I’d have decision writing experience and I could demonstrate an interest in trademark law from my note. It may have made a difference. But then again my law school isn’t a prestige school.

It's going to be interesting to see how USPTO will retain people now that more agencies are embracing full time WFH. I can imagine some employees are going to jump ship at the thought of not having to deal with quotas and still get to enjoy the full time WFH that USPTO provides.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry I don’t believe half the stories on here about bva. Someone here has an agenda

+1

I did work there and while a lot of the scary stories are really outdated and overblown, the general vibe I got from this thread to keep my eyes open served me well. I kept my eyes on the exits and had the opportunity to leave well before the end of my first year.

I had a nice judge and met lots of nice people, but I got the vibe that there is a lack of stability with supervisor turnover. I didn’t like the work - it was okay. I was not going to have to work overtime to get it done and a lot of people don’t - people love to swap efficiency tips and your supervisor wants to know you are working hard to make quota and will help you if you are not a pain to them. They like to help you set goals and prioritize, so play the game.

Basically, though, there was nothing I saw that made me want to stay there. I didn’t want to do a rotation to KM because I’d risk losing my awesome judge. I didn’t want to become a supervisor in charge of 40 attorneys working for 4 different judges. I didn’t want to become a judge.

I got out and while I don’t dig the fear-mongering posts on here, I owe them a debt of gratitude for keeping me grounded and aware.

So apply for the job if your options are limited, but if you take it, do not stop job searching. It may work out for you at BVA and you want to stay but keep those options open until you know you can do the job and know you want to do the job.

Congrats! Did you have other legal experience prior to coming to the BVA? It seems from these posts that bva skills are non transferable.

BVA experience is so specialized that it’s not useful for most attorney positions in both the federal government and the private sector. While BVA experience won’t hurt an attorney, it generally doesn’t help. Most of the people who left BVA joined SSA as decision writers. BVA attorneys with prior litigation experience have an easier time finding other opportunities. That’s not to say that BVA attorneys with only BVA experience will never be able to transfer to a non-decision writing attorney. Career decision writers can and do find other non-decision writing attorney jobs at other agencies; however, they usually can only qualify for entry level GS-11 non-decision writing attorney positions

only for low prestige ones right? There are decision writer jobs at the USPTO but you have to have gone to a good law school to get that job

I agree that USPTO is more prestigious than BVA and more selective. However, from what I hear, the USPTO trademark examining attorney position is very stressful due to the high quota. BVA appears to be only slightly worse than USPTO. I say worse because while both BVA and USPTO have very high quotas, the level of bullying that *some* judges at BVA engage in is truly next level and career destroying.

I even wrote my law review note, which is published, in a trademark issue. It has been cited in many law review articles, Callmans on Unfair competition, a property law casebook, and I didn’t even get an interview for the trademark examiner job. At least with the BvA I’d have decision writing experience and I could demonstrate an interest in trademark law from my note. It may have made a difference. But then again my law school isn’t a prestige school.

It's going to be interesting to see how USPTO will retain people now that more agencies are embracing full time WFH. I can imagine some employees are going to jump ship at the thought of not having to deal with quotas and still get to enjoy the full time WFH that USPTO provides.

is there any stuff online about people complaining about uspto like with the bva? I knew a guy who worked at the uspto now he is in the private sector in IP law

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry I don’t believe half the stories on here about bva. Someone here has an agenda

+1

I did work there and while a lot of the scary stories are really outdated and overblown, the general vibe I got from this thread to keep my eyes open served me well. I kept my eyes on the exits and had the opportunity to leave well before the end of my first year.

I had a nice judge and met lots of nice people, but I got the vibe that there is a lack of stability with supervisor turnover. I didn’t like the work - it was okay. I was not going to have to work overtime to get it done and a lot of people don’t - people love to swap efficiency tips and your supervisor wants to know you are working hard to make quota and will help you if you are not a pain to them. They like to help you set goals and prioritize, so play the game.

Basically, though, there was nothing I saw that made me want to stay there. I didn’t want to do a rotation to KM because I’d risk losing my awesome judge. I didn’t want to become a supervisor in charge of 40 attorneys working for 4 different judges. I didn’t want to become a judge.

I got out and while I don’t dig the fear-mongering posts on here, I owe them a debt of gratitude for keeping me grounded and aware.

So apply for the job if your options are limited, but if you take it, do not stop job searching. It may work out for you at BVA and you want to stay but keep those options open until you know you can do the job and know you want to do the job.

Congrats! Did you have other legal experience prior to coming to the BVA? It seems from these posts that bva skills are non transferable.

BVA experience is so specialized that it’s not useful for most attorney positions in both the federal government and the private sector. While BVA experience won’t hurt an attorney, it generally doesn’t help. Most of the people who left BVA joined SSA as decision writers. BVA attorneys with prior litigation experience have an easier time finding other opportunities. That’s not to say that BVA attorneys with only BVA experience will never be able to transfer to a non-decision writing attorney. Career decision writers can and do find other non-decision writing attorney jobs at other agencies; however, they usually can only qualify for entry level GS-11 non-decision writing attorney positions

only for low prestige ones right? There are decision writer jobs at the USPTO but you have to have gone to a good law school to get that job

I agree that USPTO is more prestigious than BVA and more selective. However, from what I hear, the USPTO trademark examining attorney position is very stressful due to the high quota. BVA appears to be only slightly worse than USPTO. I say worse because while both BVA and USPTO have very high quotas, the level of bullying that *some* judges at BVA engage in is truly next level and career destroying.

I even wrote my law review note, which is published, in a trademark issue. It has been cited in many law review articles, Callmans on Unfair competition, a property law casebook, and I didn’t even get an interview for the trademark examiner job. At least with the BvA I’d have decision writing experience and I could demonstrate an interest in trademark law from my note. It may have made a difference. But then again my law school isn’t a prestige school.

It's going to be interesting to see how USPTO will retain people now that more agencies are embracing full time WFH. I can imagine some employees are going to jump ship at the thought of not having to deal with quotas and still get to enjoy the full time WFH that USPTO provides.

is there any stuff online about people complaining about uspto like with the bva? I knew a guy who worked at the uspto now he is in the private sector in IP law

https://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=223986

Complaints about increased quota in the past few years. Morale has been low. But seems like not as many people complaining compared to BVA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry I don’t believe half the stories on here about bva. Someone here has an agenda

+1

I did work there and while a lot of the scary stories are really outdated and overblown, the general vibe I got from this thread to keep my eyes open served me well. I kept my eyes on the exits and had the opportunity to leave well before the end of my first year.

I had a nice judge and met lots of nice people, but I got the vibe that there is a lack of stability with supervisor turnover. I didn’t like the work - it was okay. I was not going to have to work overtime to get it done and a lot of people don’t - people love to swap efficiency tips and your supervisor wants to know you are working hard to make quota and will help you if you are not a pain to them. They like to help you set goals and prioritize, so play the game.

Basically, though, there was nothing I saw that made me want to stay there. I didn’t want to do a rotation to KM because I’d risk losing my awesome judge. I didn’t want to become a supervisor in charge of 40 attorneys working for 4 different judges. I didn’t want to become a judge.

I got out and while I don’t dig the fear-mongering posts on here, I owe them a debt of gratitude for keeping me grounded and aware.

So apply for the job if your options are limited, but if you take it, do not stop job searching. It may work out for you at BVA and you want to stay but keep those options open until you know you can do the job and know you want to do the job.

Congrats! Did you have other legal experience prior to coming to the BVA? It seems from these posts that bva skills are non transferable.

BVA experience is so specialized that it’s not useful for most attorney positions in both the federal government and the private sector. While BVA experience won’t hurt an attorney, it generally doesn’t help. Most of the people who left BVA joined SSA as decision writers. BVA attorneys with prior litigation experience have an easier time finding other opportunities. That’s not to say that BVA attorneys with only BVA experience will never be able to transfer to a non-decision writing attorney. Career decision writers can and do find other non-decision writing attorney jobs at other agencies; however, they usually can only qualify for entry level GS-11 non-decision writing attorney positions

only for low prestige ones right? There are decision writer jobs at the USPTO but you have to have gone to a good law school to get that job

I agree that USPTO is more prestigious than BVA and more selective. However, from what I hear, the USPTO trademark examining attorney position is very stressful due to the high quota. BVA appears to be only slightly worse than USPTO. I say worse because while both BVA and USPTO have very high quotas, the level of bullying that *some* judges at BVA engage in is truly next level and career destroying.

I even wrote my law review note, which is published, in a trademark issue. It has been cited in many law review articles, Callmans on Unfair competition, a property law casebook, and I didn’t even get an interview for the trademark examiner job. At least with the BvA I’d have decision writing experience and I could demonstrate an interest in trademark law from my note. It may have made a difference. But then again my law school isn’t a prestige school.

It's going to be interesting to see how USPTO will retain people now that more agencies are embracing full time WFH. I can imagine some employees are going to jump ship at the thought of not having to deal with quotas and still get to enjoy the full time WFH that USPTO provides.

is there any stuff online about people complaining about uspto like with the bva? I knew a guy who worked at the uspto now he is in the private sector in IP law

https://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=223986

Complaints about increased quota in the past few years. Morale has been low. But seems like not as many people complaining compared to BVA

gracias!

[Anonymous]

I am a trademark attorney at the USPTO. For the poster who wrote an article on trademark law, this could have actually worked against you. The USPTO does not care about experience, and generally hires 3L's with no trademark experience. You have to tailor your cover letter towards the production element of the job. They want to know that you work quickly, can take criticism well (your work is reviewed by a mentor for two years), and that you are okay with a repetitive job.

Yes, morale is very low here. It's an exhausting job. Not only is the production egregious, but everything you do is reviewed, and a small or large issue counts as an "error" against you - get enough errors and you will not be satisfactory. You are only as good as your last quarter at the PTO, which leads to massive burnout. People are fired there. Even people with extenuating family circumstances.

Unlike the BVA, I would still recommend it to people who have no other options. There is no upward mobility at the PTO and most are looking for jobs on the side.

One PP mentioned how the PTO will fare now that more offices are adopting telework flexibility. This is a great point. The PTO could get away with the production because of the perk of telework. However, this is no longer unique to the PTO. To be able to spend a day not worrying about meeting a quota sounds like a dream to me!

Unlike the BVA, I wouldn't call the PTO toxic or vengeful. it's just not a place that most people will want to stay long term.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a trademark attorney at the USPTO. For the poster who wrote an article on trademark law, this could have actually worked against you. The USPTO does not care about experience, and generally hires 3L's with no trademark experience. You have to tailor your cover letter towards the production element of the job. They want to know that you work quickly, can take criticism well (your work is reviewed by a mentor for two years), and that you are okay with a repetitive job.

Yes, morale is very low here. It's an exhausting job. Not only is the production egregious, but everything you do is reviewed, and a small or large issue counts as an "error" against you - get enough errors and you will not be satisfactory. You are only as good as your last quarter at the PTO, which leads to massive burnout. People are fired there. Even people with extenuating family circumstances.

Unlike the BVA, I would still recommend it to people who have no other options. There is no upward mobility at the PTO and most are looking for jobs on the side.

One PP mentioned how the PTO will fare now that more offices are adopting telework flexibility. This is a great point. The PTO could get away with the production because of the perk of telework. However, this is no longer unique to the PTO. To be able to spend a day not worrying about meeting a quota sounds like a dream to me!

Unlike the BVA, I wouldn't call the PTO toxic or vengeful. it's just not a place that most people will want to stay long term.

Thanks for the insight. I actually had an interview at the PTO and one of the questions they asked was “How would you deal with a warning letter that you haven’t met the quota?” So, they are serious about the quota there. I didn’t get the job there and now work at the BVA. I’m just wondering, are many federal jobs production based?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a trademark attorney at the USPTO. For the poster who wrote an article on trademark law, this could have actually worked against you. The USPTO does not care about experience, and generally hires 3L's with no trademark experience. You have to tailor your cover letter towards the production element of the job. They want to know that you work quickly, can take criticism well (your work is reviewed by a mentor for two years), and that you are okay with a repetitive job.

Yes, morale is very low here. It's an exhausting job. Not only is the production egregious, but everything you do is reviewed, and a small or large issue counts as an "error" against you - get enough errors and you will not be satisfactory. You are only as good as your last quarter at the PTO, which leads to massive burnout. People are fired there. Even people with extenuating family circumstances.

Unlike the BVA, I would still recommend it to people who have no other options. There is no upward mobility at the PTO and most are looking for jobs on the side.

One PP mentioned how the PTO will fare now that more offices are adopting telework flexibility. This is a great point. The PTO could get away with the production because of the perk of telework. However, this is no longer unique to the PTO. To be able to spend a day not worrying about meeting a quota sounds like a dream to me!

Unlike the BVA, I wouldn't call the PTO toxic or vengeful. it's just not a place that most people will want to stay long term.

how do I Taylor towards production if I haven’t had a quota type job? I’ve had deadlines before, at work, on law review and I be always made them. Should I say in a cover letter I’m prepared to work as long as required to make quota ? I really have no life so I can do this. However I would like something less stressful but I honestly don’t have many options .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a trademark attorney at the USPTO. For the poster who wrote an article on trademark law, this could have actually worked against you. The USPTO does not care about experience, and generally hires 3L's with no trademark experience. You have to tailor your cover letter towards the production element of the job. They want to know that you work quickly, can take criticism well (your work is reviewed by a mentor for two years), and that you are okay with a repetitive job.

Yes, morale is very low here. It's an exhausting job. Not only is the production egregious, but everything you do is reviewed, and a small or large issue counts as an "error" against you - get enough errors and you will not be satisfactory. You are only as good as your last quarter at the PTO, which leads to massive burnout. People are fired there. Even people with extenuating family circumstances.

Unlike the BVA, I would still recommend it to people who have no other options. There is no upward mobility at the PTO and most are looking for jobs on the side.

One PP mentioned how the PTO will fare now that more offices are adopting telework flexibility. This is a great point. The PTO could get away with the production because of the perk of telework. However, this is no longer unique to the PTO. To be able to spend a day not worrying about meeting a quota sounds like a dream to me!

Unlike the BVA, I wouldn't call the PTO toxic or vengeful. it's just not a place that most people will want to stay long term.

Thanks for the insight. I actually had an interview at the PTO and one of the questions they asked was “How would you deal with a warning letter that you haven’t met the quota?” So, they are serious about the quota there. I didn’t get the job there and now work at the BVA. I’m just wondering, are many federal jobs production based?

Most attorney jobs have a productivity rating element that is measured in different ways. At law firms, the productivity of attorneys is measured by the billable hour. The productivity of trial attorneys in the federal government can't be measured by the billable hour because its a government job. Instead, these attorneys are assessed by their ability to meet deadlines, which can be quite difficult given the sheer volume of cases that they handle. Other attorneys, such as the ones at BVA and the USPTO, have quotas to meet. These methods appear to be different, but they all measure one thing: productivity.

[Anonymous]

https://www.indeed.com/m/viewjob?jk=ea82503557a487dc&from=serp

A quick search shows entry level openings are out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.indeed.com/m/viewjob?jk=ea82503557a487dc&from=serp

A quick search shows entry level openings are out there.

it says “we seek recent law school graduates”. Do you really think they take someone 10-15 years out of law school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a trademark attorney at the USPTO. For the poster who wrote an article on trademark law, this could have actually worked against you. The USPTO does not care about experience, and generally hires 3L's with no trademark experience. You have to tailor your cover letter towards the production element of the job. They want to know that you work quickly, can take criticism well (your work is reviewed by a mentor for two years), and that you are okay with a repetitive job.

Yes, morale is very low here. It's an exhausting job. Not only is the production egregious, but everything you do is reviewed, and a small or large issue counts as an "error" against you - get enough errors and you will not be satisfactory. You are only as good as your last quarter at the PTO, which leads to massive burnout. People are fired there. Even people with extenuating family circumstances.

Unlike the BVA, I would still recommend it to people who have no other options. There is no upward mobility at the PTO and most are looking for jobs on the side.

One PP mentioned how the PTO will fare now that more offices are adopting telework flexibility. This is a great point. The PTO could get away with the production because of the perk of telework. However, this is no longer unique to the PTO. To be able to spend a day not worrying about meeting a quota sounds like a dream to me!

Unlike the BVA, I wouldn't call the PTO toxic or vengeful. it's just not a place that most people will want to stay long term.

how do I Taylor towards production if I haven’t had a quota type job? I’ve had deadlines before, at work, on law review and I be always made them. Should I say in a cover letter I’m prepared to work as long as required to make quota ? I really have no life so I can do this. However I would like something less stressful but I honestly don’t have many options .

If you are referring to the PTO hiring process, you just need to demonstrate that you have an interest in trademark law. You submit your application to USA jobs. If you meet the basic requirements, you get referred to selecting official. Resumes/cover letters are reviewed and then if you qualify, they send you a writing sample. If they like your sample, they give you an interview during which they will grill you with questions on meeting quota. If you haven’t had jobs based on quota, you should talk about how you met your demanding deadlines, how you prioritize your time so you don’t miss your deadlines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a trademark attorney at the USPTO. For the poster who wrote an article on trademark law, this could have actually worked against you. The USPTO does not care about experience, and generally hires 3L's with no trademark experience. You have to tailor your cover letter towards the production element of the job. They want to know that you work quickly, can take criticism well (your work is reviewed by a mentor for two years), and that you are okay with a repetitive job.

Yes, morale is very low here. It's an exhausting job. Not only is the production egregious, but everything you do is reviewed, and a small or large issue counts as an "error" against you - get enough errors and you will not be satisfactory. You are only as good as your last quarter at the PTO, which leads to massive burnout. People are fired there. Even people with extenuating family circumstances.

Unlike the BVA, I would still recommend it to people who have no other options. There is no upward mobility at the PTO and most are looking for jobs on the side.

One PP mentioned how the PTO will fare now that more offices are adopting telework flexibility. This is a great point. The PTO could get away with the production because of the perk of telework. However, this is no longer unique to the PTO. To be able to spend a day not worrying about meeting a quota sounds like a dream to me!

Unlike the BVA, I wouldn't call the PTO toxic or vengeful. it's just not a place that most people will want to stay long term.

how do I Taylor towards production if I haven’t had a quota type job? I’ve had deadlines before, at work, on law review and I be always made them. Should I say in a cover letter I’m prepared to work as long as required to make quota ? I really have no life so I can do this. However I would like something less stressful but I honestly don’t have many options .

If you are referring to the PTO hiring process, you just need to demonstrate that you have an interest in trademark law. You submit your application to USA jobs. If you meet the basic requirements, you get referred to selecting official. Resumes/cover letters are reviewed and then if you qualify, they send you a writing sample. If they like your sample, they give you an interview during which they will grill you with questions on meeting quota. If you haven’t had jobs based on quota, you should talk about how you met your demanding deadlines, how you prioritize your time so you don’t miss your deadlines.

I did, I mentioned my published law review note in my cover letter, which is on a Trademark issue. I got referred, but didn't get an interview. Someone else here said that mentioning it probably hurt me as they only care about making production. DO you think I should mention it has been cited in many law review articles , a treatise, a casebook, etc? Or is that too douchey? I don't want to do it, but if it would help me, then I will do it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a trademark attorney at the USPTO. For the poster who wrote an article on trademark law, this could have actually worked against you. The USPTO does not care about experience, and generally hires 3L's with no trademark experience. You have to tailor your cover letter towards the production element of the job. They want to know that you work quickly, can take criticism well (your work is reviewed by a mentor for two years), and that you are okay with a repetitive job.

Yes, morale is very low here. It's an exhausting job. Not only is the production egregious, but everything you do is reviewed, and a small or large issue counts as an "error" against you - get enough errors and you will not be satisfactory. You are only as good as your last quarter at the PTO, which leads to massive burnout. People are fired there. Even people with extenuating family circumstances.

Unlike the BVA, I would still recommend it to people who have no other options. There is no upward mobility at the PTO and most are looking for jobs on the side.

One PP mentioned how the PTO will fare now that more offices are adopting telework flexibility. This is a great point. The PTO could get away with the production because of the perk of telework. However, this is no longer unique to the PTO. To be able to spend a day not worrying about meeting a quota sounds like a dream to me!

Unlike the BVA, I wouldn't call the PTO toxic or vengeful. it's just not a place that most people will want to stay long term.

how do I Taylor towards production if I haven’t had a quota type job? I’ve had deadlines before, at work, on law review and I be always made them. Should I say in a cover letter I’m prepared to work as long as required to make quota ? I really have no life so I can do this. However I would like something less stressful but I honestly don’t have many options .

If you are referring to the PTO hiring process, you just need to demonstrate that you have an interest in trademark law. You submit your application to USA jobs. If you meet the basic requirements, you get referred to selecting official. Resumes/cover letters are reviewed and then if you qualify, they send you a writing sample. If they like your sample, they give you an interview during which they will grill you with questions on meeting quota. If you haven’t had jobs based on quota, you should talk about how you met your demanding deadlines, how you prioritize your time so you don’t miss your deadlines.

I did, I mentioned my published law review note in my cover letter, which is on a Trademark issue. I got referred, but didn't get an interview. Someone else here said that mentioning it probably hurt me as they only care about making production. DO you think I should mention it has been cited in many law review articles , a treatise, a casebook, etc? Or is that too douchey? I don't want to do it, but if it would help me, then I will do it

I think the fact that you got referred means your cover letter was good already. Did you get a KSA writing sample? If you didn’t get an interview, it might be the fact that you need to beef up your KSA sample.