Study shows that 350k/year is barely scrapping by as middle class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Almost all of you are still missing the fact that 95% of the country doesn’t have the luxury of maxing out their 401k, saving for kids’ college, living in one of the most desirable cities to live in, paying for premium childcare and/or private schools for DCs, and on top of that still being able to afford relatively new cars and vacations. (Because today those ARE major luxuries) in no country except maybe Luxembourg is your HHI “middle-class”.

But go ahead and keep keep whining about how you’re middle-class on a 300k HHI, then when you’re surprised when people keep getting elected who want to “drain the swamp” that you live in/off of. or one the other end of the spectrum someone who wants to tax the poo-poo out of you; come back and read about how you think you’re the same as people in fly-over country who are making the ACTUAL median wage.

I don’t think anyone is missing that they are living in an expensive city, saving for retirement, and saving for kids college. It is just the scale of these things and the others you listed is so different in a HCOL city than a small Midwest town. If you read any of the financial articles or watch it on tv they are saying we should all be saving money for our emergency fund, 15% for retirement, and some for kids schooling. We are doing all that and yet the money still doesn’t feel like enough. Is it actually enough? Of course.

I will say again most of the country CAN NOT even do those things they’re stretched so thin
we’d like to be able to save for college for kids and retirement have relatively new cars and take a vacation or two per year
but half the country doesn’t have four hundred dollars to cover an unexpected expense (not hundred thousand, just hundred)
We spend more than 10% of our incomes on insurance premiums and copays (even through work), we still have to buy food and pay our mortgages and for cars and gas. We still have to pay sales taxes, property taxes, and income taxes, have to pay for utilities, etc...

Why do you think most people are so fed up with the current state of things? People wouldn’t say the American dream was dead if most were able to live in the best neighborhoods, save for colleges and retirement, go on vacations, pay for the best childcare, pay for private school, etc... and then still have 1k left over. Plus, heaven forbid you need to downsize and move somewhere cheaper, everyone who owns their house in D.C. could buy a mansion in “flyover” country and STILL have cash left over. What does someone with the average priced house of 250k do?

If you think 300k (top 5%) is middle-class you are clueless.

It feels middle class when there is not much leftover, doesn’t mean it IS middle class. There is a perception that if you make >200k or 300k you are wealthy. It is so much higher than the national median that it must mean anyone making that money is swimming in cash, flying first class, private school for your 3 kids, brand new matching range rovers in the driveway. Again, all perception.

If you make $300k HHI, you *can* fly first class, send 3 kids to private, and buy matching range rovers. You just can’t do that *and* save much for retirement.

This PP is proof most of these posters live in flyover. Private school tuition is close to $50k here. What, 47k? With a HHi of 300k you’d have to spend every penny you make after taxes to send three kids to private. It’s laughable you think you’d just need to give up saving for retirement. No, you couldn’t even save for retirement and send three kids to private. They’d also need to take on loans for college. Get it now??

Exactly! If you can’t send 3 kids to private AND fully pay for college AND fully fund your retirement, then you are most definitely middle class. UMC can do all this, but around here you need like $500k to be UMC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have 350K HHI now, but this was not how we started 30 years ago. Infact till we were 30 we had no savings but what was being deducted for SS. We had no equity, no house, no kids, no savings. We also had no debt but also nothing worth selling. We were H1B visa holders who were in limbo for years. We were unable to have a side-gig because we were legally in this country. Anyhow, as soon as we got the GC, our salary doubled. We continued to live as if we were making 35K, saved in our 401K and took the match, and started to save for a down payment on a house. 35K in one year, enabled us to buy a 300K house. We had our 2 kids but we knew that we were lagging behind significantly in our retirement and savings. In another decade (when we were 40), we had saved for college for both the kids and started to save aggressively for retirement investments. I stopped working after saving every single cent I earned for a decade, for my kids education.

350K is a lot of money. In our 50s, we now have 4 years of state college paid for both the kids and 1/2 million each for both of them. We have a 3 million term life insurance. No debts except for the house payment. A retirement that will give us at least 200K per year after taxes and inflation-adjusted, and two million in investments.

Going from living paycheck to paycheck, to a life style that allows us to take foreign vacations with our kids at least once or twice a year, have cleaning service twice a week, be able to pay for tutors and expensive EC activities etc, have nice cars etc - without looking at the price, is a huge luxury.

I think that not having any saving for 8 years of our lives and living in H1B limbo land, with minimal pay - is in the same category as having student debt and childcare cost - at the very least. Where we managed to come out ahead was choosing a DMV area where we could get a SFH for 300K. The schools are not that great, but we were able to bypass the private school costs by working with our kids from the very beginning and giving them an enriched learning environment at home. They were able to be in the magnet programs in the public school system. Of course, my being a SAHM helped because I was able to manage the needs of my family and we did not have daycare costs - but it also meant that we were a single income family and my financial contribution was not measurable in dollar terms or through a 401K contribution.

My kids will however get a leg-up in life that we did not have - no student debt, a car, some cash, no cost for their wedding. We are and will be well-off till the end of our lives if the world is not overtaken by zombies etc.

So, for anyone who is making 350K in their 30s and feeling middle class on this forum, I think that it could be a fair complaint. You have a lot of expenses, but you also have lots of savings in your 30s. Hopefully, when this decade is over and your kids are in school., you will be feeling very rich because you will certainly be rich. Take it from us - we made 350 in our late 40s, played catch up with our retirement. In our 30s, we had no savings and certainly not the lifestyle you are enjoying in your 30s.

Hopefully, you will not feel middle class in your 50s, and instead will feel very wealthy and rich. Because you are. Truly.

You are way too rational for this thread.

No they a) bought a house cheaply 20 years ago b) had an educated SAHM mom who could provide both childcare in early years and school support (bet that also helped the husband's career) c) have been lucky not to retain the high salary into their 50's (many don't).

Sorry OR, but being on H1B visa after college does not remotely compare to having student loans and childcare costs. Everyone makes peanuts the first 5-6 years of their careers and most $300K households here are DUAL income, there just aren't that many $300K jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Almost all of you are still missing the fact that 95% of the country doesn’t have the luxury of maxing out their 401k, saving for kids’ college, living in one of the most desirable cities to live in, paying for premium childcare and/or private schools for DCs, and on top of that still being able to afford relatively new cars and vacations. (Because today those ARE major luxuries) in no country except maybe Luxembourg is your HHI “middle-class”.

But go ahead and keep keep whining about how you’re middle-class on a 300k HHI, then when you’re surprised when people keep getting elected who want to “drain the swamp” that you live in/off of. or one the other end of the spectrum someone who wants to tax the poo-poo out of you; come back and read about how you think you’re the same as people in fly-over country who are making the ACTUAL median wage.

I don’t think anyone is missing that they are living in an expensive city, saving for retirement, and saving for kids college. It is just the scale of these things and the others you listed is so different in a HCOL city than a small Midwest town. If you read any of the financial articles or watch it on tv they are saying we should all be saving money for our emergency fund, 15% for retirement, and some for kids schooling. We are doing all that and yet the money still doesn’t feel like enough. Is it actually enough? Of course.

I will say again most of the country CAN NOT even do those things they’re stretched so thin
we’d like to be able to save for college for kids and retirement have relatively new cars and take a vacation or two per year
but half the country doesn’t have four hundred dollars to cover an unexpected expense (not hundred thousand, just hundred)
We spend more than 10% of our incomes on insurance premiums and copays (even through work), we still have to buy food and pay our mortgages and for cars and gas. We still have to pay sales taxes, property taxes, and income taxes, have to pay for utilities, etc...

Why do you think most people are so fed up with the current state of things? People wouldn’t say the American dream was dead if most were able to live in the best neighborhoods, save for colleges and retirement, go on vacations, pay for the best childcare, pay for private school, etc... and then still have 1k left over. Plus, heaven forbid you need to downsize and move somewhere cheaper, everyone who owns their house in D.C. could buy a mansion in “flyover” country and STILL have cash left over. What does someone with the average priced house of 250k do?

If you think 300k (top 5%) is middle-class you are clueless.

It feels middle class when there is not much leftover, doesn’t mean it IS middle class. There is a perception that if you make >200k or 300k you are wealthy. It is so much higher than the national median that it must mean anyone making that money is swimming in cash, flying first class, private school for your 3 kids, brand new matching range rovers in the driveway. Again, all perception.

If you make $300k HHI, you *can* fly first class, send 3 kids to private, and buy matching range rovers. You just can’t do that *and* save much for retirement.

This PP is proof most of these posters live in flyover. Private school tuition is close to $50k here. What, 47k? With a HHi of 300k you’d have to spend every penny you make after taxes to send three kids to private. It’s laughable you think you’d just need to give up saving for retirement. No, you couldn’t even save for retirement and send three kids to private. They’d also need to take on loans for college. Get it now??

They clearly have no idea what things cost. I felt the same when I was dirt poor and felt for sure I was more clever and could do so much with $300K.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Almost all of you are still missing the fact that 95% of the country doesn’t have the luxury of maxing out their 401k, saving for kids’ college, living in one of the most desirable cities to live in, paying for premium childcare and/or private schools for DCs, and on top of that still being able to afford relatively new cars and vacations. (Because today those ARE major luxuries) in no country except maybe Luxembourg is your HHI “middle-class”.

But go ahead and keep keep whining about how you’re middle-class on a 300k HHI, then when you’re surprised when people keep getting elected who want to “drain the swamp” that you live in/off of. or one the other end of the spectrum someone who wants to tax the poo-poo out of you; come back and read about how you think you’re the same as people in fly-over country who are making the ACTUAL median wage.

I don’t think anyone is missing that they are living in an expensive city, saving for retirement, and saving for kids college. It is just the scale of these things and the others you listed is so different in a HCOL city than a small Midwest town. If you read any of the financial articles or watch it on tv they are saying we should all be saving money for our emergency fund, 15% for retirement, and some for kids schooling. We are doing all that and yet the money still doesn’t feel like enough. Is it actually enough? Of course.

I will say again most of the country CAN NOT even do those things they’re stretched so thin
we’d like to be able to save for college for kids and retirement have relatively new cars and take a vacation or two per year
but half the country doesn’t have four hundred dollars to cover an unexpected expense (not hundred thousand, just hundred)
We spend more than 10% of our incomes on insurance premiums and copays (even through work), we still have to buy food and pay our mortgages and for cars and gas. We still have to pay sales taxes, property taxes, and income taxes, have to pay for utilities, etc...

Why do you think most people are so fed up with the current state of things? People wouldn’t say the American dream was dead if most were able to live in the best neighborhoods, save for colleges and retirement, go on vacations, pay for the best childcare, pay for private school, etc... and then still have 1k left over. Plus, heaven forbid you need to downsize and move somewhere cheaper, everyone who owns their house in D.C. could buy a mansion in “flyover” country and STILL have cash left over. What does someone with the average priced house of 250k do?

If you think 300k (top 5%) is middle-class you are clueless.

It feels middle class when there is not much leftover, doesn’t mean it IS middle class. There is a perception that if you make >200k or 300k you are wealthy. It is so much higher than the national median that it must mean anyone making that money is swimming in cash, flying first class, private school for your 3 kids, brand new matching range rovers in the driveway. Again, all perception.

If you make $300k HHI, you *can* fly first class, send 3 kids to private, and buy matching range rovers. You just can’t do that *and* save much for retirement.

This PP is proof most of these posters live in flyover. Private school tuition is close to $50k here. What, 47k? With a HHi of 300k you’d have to spend every penny you make after taxes to send three kids to private. It’s laughable you think you’d just need to give up saving for retirement. No, you couldn’t even save for retirement and send three kids to private. They’d also need to take on loans for college. Get it now??

They clearly have no idea what things cost. I felt the same when I was dirt poor and felt for sure I was more clever and could do so much with $300K.

If you literally feel the same as when you were “dirt poor” vs. making $300k per year, then yes, you are almost certainly not very clever. Sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Almost all of you are still missing the fact that 95% of the country doesn’t have the luxury of maxing out their 401k, saving for kids’ college, living in one of the most desirable cities to live in, paying for premium childcare and/or private schools for DCs, and on top of that still being able to afford relatively new cars and vacations. (Because today those ARE major luxuries) in no country except maybe Luxembourg is your HHI “middle-class”.

But go ahead and keep keep whining about how you’re middle-class on a 300k HHI, then when you’re surprised when people keep getting elected who want to “drain the swamp” that you live in/off of. or one the other end of the spectrum someone who wants to tax the poo-poo out of you; come back and read about how you think you’re the same as people in fly-over country who are making the ACTUAL median wage.

I don’t think anyone is missing that they are living in an expensive city, saving for retirement, and saving for kids college. It is just the scale of these things and the others you listed is so different in a HCOL city than a small Midwest town. If you read any of the financial articles or watch it on tv they are saying we should all be saving money for our emergency fund, 15% for retirement, and some for kids schooling. We are doing all that and yet the money still doesn’t feel like enough. Is it actually enough? Of course.

I will say again most of the country CAN NOT even do those things they’re stretched so thin
we’d like to be able to save for college for kids and retirement have relatively new cars and take a vacation or two per year
but half the country doesn’t have four hundred dollars to cover an unexpected expense (not hundred thousand, just hundred)
We spend more than 10% of our incomes on insurance premiums and copays (even through work), we still have to buy food and pay our mortgages and for cars and gas. We still have to pay sales taxes, property taxes, and income taxes, have to pay for utilities, etc...

Why do you think most people are so fed up with the current state of things? People wouldn’t say the American dream was dead if most were able to live in the best neighborhoods, save for colleges and retirement, go on vacations, pay for the best childcare, pay for private school, etc... and then still have 1k left over. Plus, heaven forbid you need to downsize and move somewhere cheaper, everyone who owns their house in D.C. could buy a mansion in “flyover” country and STILL have cash left over. What does someone with the average priced house of 250k do?

If you think 300k (top 5%) is middle-class you are clueless.

The majority of the country is POOR particularly when you consider the wealth of this country. Now you can keep sticking to the mathematical definition of middle/median class but does not change the facts in the ground when it comes to quality of life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Almost all of you are still missing the fact that 95% of the country doesn’t have the luxury of maxing out their 401k, saving for kids’ college, living in one of the most desirable cities to live in, paying for premium childcare and/or private schools for DCs, and on top of that still being able to afford relatively new cars and vacations. (Because today those ARE major luxuries) in no country except maybe Luxembourg is your HHI “middle-class”.

But go ahead and keep keep whining about how you’re middle-class on a 300k HHI, then when you’re surprised when people keep getting elected who want to “drain the swamp” that you live in/off of. or one the other end of the spectrum someone who wants to tax the poo-poo out of you; come back and read about how you think you’re the same as people in fly-over country who are making the ACTUAL median wage.

I don’t think anyone is missing that they are living in an expensive city, saving for retirement, and saving for kids college. It is just the scale of these things and the others you listed is so different in a HCOL city than a small Midwest town. If you read any of the financial articles or watch it on tv they are saying we should all be saving money for our emergency fund, 15% for retirement, and some for kids schooling. We are doing all that and yet the money still doesn’t feel like enough. Is it actually enough? Of course.

I will say again most of the country CAN NOT even do those things they’re stretched so thin
we’d like to be able to save for college for kids and retirement have relatively new cars and take a vacation or two per year
but half the country doesn’t have four hundred dollars to cover an unexpected expense (not hundred thousand, just hundred)
We spend more than 10% of our incomes on insurance premiums and copays (even through work), we still have to buy food and pay our mortgages and for cars and gas. We still have to pay sales taxes, property taxes, and income taxes, have to pay for utilities, etc...

Why do you think most people are so fed up with the current state of things? People wouldn’t say the American dream was dead if most were able to live in the best neighborhoods, save for colleges and retirement, go on vacations, pay for the best childcare, pay for private school, etc... and then still have 1k left over. Plus, heaven forbid you need to downsize and move somewhere cheaper, everyone who owns their house in D.C. could buy a mansion in “flyover” country and STILL have cash left over. What does someone with the average priced house of 250k do?

If you think 300k (top 5%) is middle-class you are clueless.

It feels middle class when there is not much leftover, doesn’t mean it IS middle class. There is a perception that if you make >200k or 300k you are wealthy. It is so much higher than the national median that it must mean anyone making that money is swimming in cash, flying first class, private school for your 3 kids, brand new matching range rovers in the driveway. Again, all perception.

If you make $300k HHI, you *can* fly first class, send 3 kids to private, and buy matching range rovers. You just can’t do that *and* save much for retirement.

This PP is proof most of these posters live in flyover. Private school tuition is close to $50k here. What, 47k? With a HHi of 300k you’d have to spend every penny you make after taxes to send three kids to private. It’s laughable you think you’d just need to give up saving for retirement. No, you couldn’t even save for retirement and send three kids to private. They’d also need to take on loans for college. Get it now??

They clearly have no idea what things cost. I felt the same when I was dirt poor and felt for sure I was more clever and could do so much with $300K.

If you literally feel the same as when you were “dirt poor” vs. making $300k per year, then yes, you are almost certainly not very clever. Sorry.

You lack critical reading skills. Could explain why you don't make a decent salary.

[Anonymous]

I know I'm just another dumb guy living in an average DC family (HHI $90k at age 50) but sending three kids to private school at $50k each is not middle class. When you get into three times the average income for an area, the violin gets very small.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know I'm just another dumb guy living in an average DC family (HHI $90k at age 50) but sending three kids to private school at $50k each is not middle class. When you get into three times the average income for an area, the violin gets very small.

See but you could get need based scholarships to give your kids free rides.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know I'm just another dumb guy living in an average DC family (HHI $90k at age 50) but sending three kids to private school at $50k each is not middle class. When you get into three times the average income for an area, the violin gets very small.

I am the poster above you. Of course that's not middle class. In fact if you can afford even one 50K tuition you are not middle class. The question is can you afford this on $300K, and i will say resoundly NO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know I'm just another dumb guy living in an average DC family (HHI $90k at age 50) but sending three kids to private school at $50k each is not middle class. When you get into three times the average income for an area, the violin gets very small.

I am the poster above you. Of course that's not middle class. In fact if you can afford even one 50K tuition you are not middle class. The question is can you afford this on $300K, and i will say resoundly NO.

DP but I’ve completely lost track about what you are even arguing about now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know I'm just another dumb guy living in an average DC family (HHI $90k at age 50) but sending three kids to private school at $50k each is not middle class. When you get into three times the average income for an area, the violin gets very small.

See but you could get need based scholarships to give your kids free rides.

irrelevant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know I'm just another dumb guy living in an average DC family (HHI $90k at age 50) but sending three kids to private school at $50k each is not middle class. When you get into three times the average income for an area, the violin gets very small.

I am the poster above you. Of course that's not middle class. In fact if you can afford even one 50K tuition you are not middle class. The question is can you afford this on $300K, and i will say resoundly NO.

DP but I’ve completely lost track about what you are even arguing about now.

agree. bottom line i don't understand how anyone can "scrap" by on 350....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know I'm just another dumb guy living in an average DC family (HHI $90k at age 50) but sending three kids to private school at $50k each is not middle class. When you get into three times the average income for an area, the violin gets very small.

I am the poster above you. Of course that's not middle class. In fact if you can afford even one 50K tuition you are not middle class. The question is can you afford this on $300K, and i will say resoundly NO.

DP but I’ve completely lost track about what you are even arguing about now.

DP also, it was about the poster who said 300k income meant you could send 3 kids to private school at 50k each

[Anonymous]

Most of these 350K jobs are not that stable nor are they easily found so one has to take that into an account when doing math. We are actually more frugal now with one person earning 350k then when we both were making about 250K combined. So in general it does feel somewhat boring and middle classy. It is nice this time of year to not have to pay social security anymore

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know I'm just another dumb guy living in an average DC family (HHI $90k at age 50) but sending three kids to private school at $50k each is not middle class. When you get into three times the average income for an area, the violin gets very small.

I am the poster above you. Of course that's not middle class. In fact if you can afford even one 50K tuition you are not middle class. The question is can you afford this on $300K, and i will say resoundly NO.

DP but I’ve completely lost track about what you are even arguing about now.

DP also, it was about the poster who said 300k income meant you could send 3 kids to private school at 50k each

And fly first class on luxury vacations!! LOL. You won’t even be taking driving vacations with 3 kids in private school here on 300k HHI