Study shows that 350k/year is barely scrapping by as middle class

[Anonymous]

We have 350K HHI now, but this was not how we started 30 years ago. Infact till we were 30 we had no savings but what was being deducted for SS. We had no equity, no house, no kids, no savings. We also had no debt but also nothing worth selling. We were H1B visa holders who were in limbo for years. We were unable to have a side-gig because we were legally in this country. Anyhow, as soon as we got the GC, our salary doubled. We continued to live as if we were making 35K, saved in our 401K and took the match, and started to save for a down payment on a house. 35K in one year, enabled us to buy a 300K house. We had our 2 kids but we knew that we were lagging behind significantly in our retirement and savings. In another decade (when we were 40), we had saved for college for both the kids and started to save aggressively for retirement investments. I stopped working after saving every single cent I earned for a decade, for my kids education.

350K is a lot of money. In our 50s, we now have 4 years of state college paid for both the kids and 1/2 million each for both of them. We have a 3 million term life insurance. No debts except for the house payment. A retirement that will give us at least 200K per year after taxes and inflation-adjusted, and two million in investments.

Going from living paycheck to paycheck, to a life style that allows us to take foreign vacations with our kids at least once or twice a year, have cleaning service twice a week, be able to pay for tutors and expensive EC activities etc, have nice cars etc - without looking at the price, is a huge luxury.

I think that not having any saving for 8 years of our lives and living in H1B limbo land, with minimal pay - is in the same category as having student debt and childcare cost - at the very least. Where we managed to come out ahead was choosing a DMV area where we could get a SFH for 300K. The schools are not that great, but we were able to bypass the private school costs by working with our kids from the very beginning and giving them an enriched learning environment at home. They were able to be in the magnet programs in the public school system. Of course, my being a SAHM helped because I was able to manage the needs of my family and we did not have daycare costs - but it also meant that we were a single income family and my financial contribution was not measurable in dollar terms or through a 401K contribution.

My kids will however get a leg-up in life that we did not have - no student debt, a car, some cash, no cost for their wedding. We are and will be well-off till the end of our lives if the world is not overtaken by zombies etc.

So, for anyone who is making 350K in their 30s and feeling middle class on this forum, I think that it could be a fair complaint. You have a lot of expenses, but you also have lots of savings in your 30s. Hopefully, when this decade is over and your kids are in school., you will be feeling very rich because you will certainly be rich. Take it from us - we made 350 in our late 40s, played catch up with our retirement. In our 30s, we had no savings and certainly not the lifestyle you are enjoying in your 30s.

Hopefully, you will not feel middle class in your 50s, and instead will feel very wealthy and rich. Because you are. Truly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Almost all of you are still missing the fact that 95% of the country doesn’t have the luxury of maxing out their 401k, saving for kids’ college, living in one of the most desirable cities to live in, paying for premium childcare and/or private schools for DCs, and on top of that still being able to afford relatively new cars and vacations. (Because today those ARE major luxuries) in no country except maybe Luxembourg is your HHI “middle-class”.

But go ahead and keep keep whining about how you’re middle-class on a 300k HHI, then when you’re surprised when people keep getting elected who want to “drain the swamp” that you live in/off of. or one the other end of the spectrum someone who wants to tax the poo-poo out of you; come back and read about how you think you’re the same as people in fly-over country who are making the ACTUAL median wage.

I don’t think anyone is missing that they are living in an expensive city, saving for retirement, and saving for kids college. It is just the scale of these things and the others you listed is so different in a HCOL city than a small Midwest town. If you read any of the financial articles or watch it on tv they are saying we should all be saving money for our emergency fund, 15% for retirement, and some for kids schooling. We are doing all that and yet the money still doesn’t feel like enough. Is it actually enough? Of course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Almost all of you are still missing the fact that 95% of the country doesn’t have the luxury of maxing out their 401k, saving for kids’ college, living in one of the most desirable cities to live in, paying for premium childcare and/or private schools for DCs, and on top of that still being able to afford relatively new cars and vacations. (Because today those ARE major luxuries) in no country except maybe Luxembourg is your HHI “middle-class”.

But go ahead and keep keep whining about how you’re middle-class on a 300k HHI, then when you’re surprised when people keep getting elected who want to “drain the swamp” that you live in/off of. or one the other end of the spectrum someone who wants to tax the poo-poo out of you; come back and read about how you think you’re the same as people in fly-over country who are making the ACTUAL median wage.

I don’t think anyone is missing that they are living in an expensive city, saving for retirement, and saving for kids college. It is just the scale of these things and the others you listed is so different in a HCOL city than a small Midwest town. If you read any of the financial articles or watch it on tv they are saying we should all be saving money for our emergency fund, 15% for retirement, and some for kids schooling. We are doing all that and yet the money still doesn’t feel like enough. Is it actually enough? Of course.

I will say again most of the country CAN NOT even do those things they’re stretched so thin
we’d like to be able to save for college for kids and retirement have relatively new cars and take a vacation or two per year
but half the country doesn’t have four hundred dollars to cover an unexpected expense (not hundred thousand, just hundred)
We spend more than 10% of our incomes on insurance premiums and copays (even through work), we still have to buy food and pay our mortgages and for cars and gas. We still have to pay sales taxes, property taxes, and income taxes, have to pay for utilities, etc...

Why do you think most people are so fed up with the current state of things? People wouldn’t say the American dream was dead if most were able to live in the best neighborhoods, save for colleges and retirement, go on vacations, pay for the best childcare, pay for private school, etc... and then still have 1k left over. Plus, heaven forbid you need to downsize and move somewhere cheaper, everyone who owns their house in D.C. could buy a mansion in “flyover” country and STILL have cash left over. What does someone with the average priced house of 250k do?

If you think 300k (top 5%) is middle-class you are clueless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:yep, let's say it takes you to age 30 to get to $0 net worth (loans education etc) and then 35 to be both maxing out and getting a $20K bonus, and you work 30 years. At 3% real (lower than historical stock market return), you'll accumulate $2.7 million of retirement account. Let's say you buy and maintain a $1mm house at 40 and pay that off over 20 years; it makes a 0% real return.

Guess what? that'll put you in the top 5% of households by wealth in one of the wealthiest countries in the world. https://dqydj.com/retiree-net-worth-retiree-wealth-america/

the 95th percentile has $3.5 million at 65+

You can then move to a nice fully paid for place in a less expensive locale for like $400K, and then have a $3.3 million nut off which you take $130K of incom supplemented by your $40-$70K of social security income, maybe some pension. You won't be a burden to your children for long term care, maybe even pay for your grandchildren's private school/college, give a lot to charity, travel the world a bit, whatever.

The struggle to get there may be harder than Frank Flyover, who may have the same house and car, but the end result is likely to be significantly better. And the advantage over frank flyover and your offspring's advantage over his offspring's will compound over time.

This this this this this.

Frank Flyover has had the same quality of life as the $350k earner for the BULK of his life, and will likely continue a similar lifestyle into retirement. He will not need to uproot himself at 66 to a different locale, away from family and friends, to afford to retire comfortably. His children will be eligible for merit aid in college. He himself will be eligible for subsidies, starting with healthcare.

Nope. Frank flyover will have a smaller retirement portfolio and less money considering that many expenses in retirement (food, healthcare, travel) are the same regardless of where you live.

Also no one should count on merit aid!

He will have enough to continue the same lifestyle and as I said likely be eligible for a subsidy on one of the highest expenses, healthcare. Frank Flyover can also be “rich” in retirement if he moves to a low cost country.

And I misspoke when I said merit aid, meant to say need based aid.

I'm confused. Why would a retiree need subsidies for healthcare? Most just keep working until 65 at least when they are then eligible for Medicare.

You know what a lot of "need based aid" is? LOANS. And when it doesn't cover everything, some parents take on these things called "Parent Plus Loans." Bad idea. But many do it.

If you think earning the national median income (~$60k) in flyover country is so cushy, go ahead and give it a whirl and report back to us.

Plenty people are forced to retire before being Medicare eligible.

Re LOANS, students with average academics take out loans to go to private colleges that they can't afford. Most State Universities would offer same students grant and need based scholarship packages. In some states like NY, state schools are basically free for anyone with HHI under $150K.

I have a sibling in flyover. He has a really cushy lifestyle, because as an MD he has the coastal salary without the expenses. But many of his friends and neighbors make $120-$180 and they have a) short commutes b) newer spacious houses c) inexpensive childcare and d) cheaper services costs from lawncare to activities for their kids. I observed that their lifestyles were better than of those making $300K here.

What do people not understand about the MEDIAN HHI being 50-75k?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We live in NW DC and this article is basically about us. We are more like $310K a year and I can account for our budget differences in property taxes, childcare, and food. But otherwise it's not that far off from what we spend. Our mortgage payment plus taxes is about the same as the mortgage payment here.

That said, we are 40, keep a liquid cash savings cushion of about 40K, have just shy of 1M in 401k, are on a path to retire around 60 and have about 75% of kids college in the bank by the time they get there. So we're comfortable, but we're driving non-flashy cars, living in a 3 bedroom house, going to public school, and living what's otherwise a pretty non-rich person lifestyle.

So what are you spending money on? Vacation, clothes, eating out, activities?

1M retirement savings is good but not where the majority of your money is going.

Not PP but I’d assume

- college savings (is over $1k per month per kid)
- childcare (at least 3k per month for 2 kids)
- mortgage for a home where kids can attend public school.

I’m a little bit higher of an income and calculated that 85% of my 450k HHI goes towards savings, taxes, mortgage, college savings and childcare.

Savings are not expenses. You may have earmarked that money for a specific purpose, but you did not spend it. It is not gone. You still have that money.

This is why it is hard to analyze without actual numbers.

Using similar rates to the source article you would have something like this:
310000 gross income
38000 401k
79360 taxes (based on 32% effective total)
192640 Net income (adding 4K child tax credit)
Expenses
12000 529 savings
65000 Mortgage PITI
5000 Utilities
24000 Childcare
24000 food (groceries, buying lunch, coffee, dinner out)
10000 Healthcare
4800 Car payment(s)
3000 Gas
1800 Cell phones
6000 clothing
5000 Gifts for family (Christmas, birthdays)
1000 Charity
7000 vacations (2 weeklong trips)
5000 entertainment (social gatherings, Getaway, sports tickets, etc)
Total expenses 173600
Cash remaining after expenses 19040

The devil is in the details, how much are you saving for retirement? Investments? 529? Future house Reno? What else is not on the above list? Emergency trip to visit sick family member? Cost of hobbies? Other stuff that is not easy to categorize?

Sorry, but if you make $310,000 a year and only give $1,000 to charity (but spend six times that much on clothing), you are a bad person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Almost all of you are still missing the fact that 95% of the country doesn’t have the luxury of maxing out their 401k, saving for kids’ college, living in one of the most desirable cities to live in, paying for premium childcare and/or private schools for DCs, and on top of that still being able to afford relatively new cars and vacations. (Because today those ARE major luxuries) in no country except maybe Luxembourg is your HHI “middle-class”.

But go ahead and keep keep whining about how you’re middle-class on a 300k HHI, then when you’re surprised when people keep getting elected who want to “drain the swamp” that you live in/off of. or one the other end of the spectrum someone who wants to tax the poo-poo out of you; come back and read about how you think you’re the same as people in fly-over country who are making the ACTUAL median wage.

I don’t think anyone is missing that they are living in an expensive city, saving for retirement, and saving for kids college. It is just the scale of these things and the others you listed is so different in a HCOL city than a small Midwest town. If you read any of the financial articles or watch it on tv they are saying we should all be saving money for our emergency fund, 15% for retirement, and some for kids schooling. We are doing all that and yet the money still doesn’t feel like enough. Is it actually enough? Of course.

I will say again most of the country CAN NOT even do those things they’re stretched so thin
we’d like to be able to save for college for kids and retirement have relatively new cars and take a vacation or two per year
but half the country doesn’t have four hundred dollars to cover an unexpected expense (not hundred thousand, just hundred)
We spend more than 10% of our incomes on insurance premiums and copays (even through work), we still have to buy food and pay our mortgages and for cars and gas. We still have to pay sales taxes, property taxes, and income taxes, have to pay for utilities, etc...

Why do you think most people are so fed up with the current state of things? People wouldn’t say the American dream was dead if most were able to live in the best neighborhoods, save for colleges and retirement, go on vacations, pay for the best childcare, pay for private school, etc... and then still have 1k left over. Plus, heaven forbid you need to downsize and move somewhere cheaper, everyone who owns their house in D.C. could buy a mansion in “flyover” country and STILL have cash left over. What does someone with the average priced house of 250k do?

If you think 300k (top 5%) is middle-class you are clueless.

It feels middle class when there is not much leftover, doesn’t mean it IS middle class. There is a perception that if you make >200k or 300k you are wealthy. It is so much higher than the national median that it must mean anyone making that money is swimming in cash, flying first class, private school for your 3 kids, brand new matching range rovers in the driveway. Again, all perception.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have 350K HHI now, but this was not how we started 30 years ago. Infact till we were 30 we had no savings but what was being deducted for SS. We had no equity, no house, no kids, no savings. We also had no debt but also nothing worth selling. We were H1B visa holders who were in limbo for years. We were unable to have a side-gig because we were legally in this country. Anyhow, as soon as we got the GC, our salary doubled. We continued to live as if we were making 35K, saved in our 401K and took the match, and started to save for a down payment on a house. 35K in one year, enabled us to buy a 300K house. We had our 2 kids but we knew that we were lagging behind significantly in our retirement and savings. In another decade (when we were 40), we had saved for college for both the kids and started to save aggressively for retirement investments. I stopped working after saving every single cent I earned for a decade, for my kids education.

350K is a lot of money. In our 50s, we now have 4 years of state college paid for both the kids and 1/2 million each for both of them. We have a 3 million term life insurance. No debts except for the house payment. A retirement that will give us at least 200K per year after taxes and inflation-adjusted, and two million in investments.

Going from living paycheck to paycheck, to a life style that allows us to take foreign vacations with our kids at least once or twice a year, have cleaning service twice a week, be able to pay for tutors and expensive EC activities etc, have nice cars etc - without looking at the price, is a huge luxury.

I think that not having any saving for 8 years of our lives and living in H1B limbo land, with minimal pay - is in the same category as having student debt and childcare cost - at the very least. Where we managed to come out ahead was choosing a DMV area where we could get a SFH for 300K. The schools are not that great, but we were able to bypass the private school costs by working with our kids from the very beginning and giving them an enriched learning environment at home. They were able to be in the magnet programs in the public school system. Of course, my being a SAHM helped because I was able to manage the needs of my family and we did not have daycare costs - but it also meant that we were a single income family and my financial contribution was not measurable in dollar terms or through a 401K contribution.

My kids will however get a leg-up in life that we did not have - no student debt, a car, some cash, no cost for their wedding. We are and will be well-off till the end of our lives if the world is not overtaken by zombies etc.

So, for anyone who is making 350K in their 30s and feeling middle class on this forum, I think that it could be a fair complaint. You have a lot of expenses, but you also have lots of savings in your 30s. Hopefully, when this decade is over and your kids are in school., you will be feeling very rich because you will certainly be rich. Take it from us - we made 350 in our late 40s, played catch up with our retirement. In our 30s, we had no savings and certainly not the lifestyle you are enjoying in your 30s.

Hopefully, you will not feel middle class in your 50s, and instead will feel very wealthy and rich. Because you are. Truly.

Thanks for sharing this perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Almost all of you are still missing the fact that 95% of the country doesn’t have the luxury of maxing out their 401k, saving for kids’ college, living in one of the most desirable cities to live in, paying for premium childcare and/or private schools for DCs, and on top of that still being able to afford relatively new cars and vacations. (Because today those ARE major luxuries) in no country except maybe Luxembourg is your HHI “middle-class”.

But go ahead and keep keep whining about how you’re middle-class on a 300k HHI, then when you’re surprised when people keep getting elected who want to “drain the swamp” that you live in/off of. or one the other end of the spectrum someone who wants to tax the poo-poo out of you; come back and read about how you think you’re the same as people in fly-over country who are making the ACTUAL median wage.

I don’t think anyone is missing that they are living in an expensive city, saving for retirement, and saving for kids college. It is just the scale of these things and the others you listed is so different in a HCOL city than a small Midwest town. If you read any of the financial articles or watch it on tv they are saying we should all be saving money for our emergency fund, 15% for retirement, and some for kids schooling. We are doing all that and yet the money still doesn’t feel like enough. Is it actually enough? Of course.

I will say again most of the country CAN NOT even do those things they’re stretched so thin
we’d like to be able to save for college for kids and retirement have relatively new cars and take a vacation or two per year
but half the country doesn’t have four hundred dollars to cover an unexpected expense (not hundred thousand, just hundred)
We spend more than 10% of our incomes on insurance premiums and copays (even through work), we still have to buy food and pay our mortgages and for cars and gas. We still have to pay sales taxes, property taxes, and income taxes, have to pay for utilities, etc...

Why do you think most people are so fed up with the current state of things? People wouldn’t say the American dream was dead if most were able to live in the best neighborhoods, save for colleges and retirement, go on vacations, pay for the best childcare, pay for private school, etc... and then still have 1k left over. Plus, heaven forbid you need to downsize and move somewhere cheaper, everyone who owns their house in D.C. could buy a mansion in “flyover” country and STILL have cash left over. What does someone with the average priced house of 250k do?

If you think 300k (top 5%) is middle-class you are clueless.

It feels middle class when there is not much leftover, doesn’t mean it IS middle class. There is a perception that if you make >200k or 300k you are wealthy. It is so much higher than the national median that it must mean anyone making that money is swimming in cash, flying first class, private school for your 3 kids, brand new matching range rovers in the driveway. Again, all perception.

If you make $300k HHI, you *can* fly first class, send 3 kids to private, and buy matching range rovers. You just can’t do that *and* save much for retirement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have 350K HHI now, but this was not how we started 30 years ago. Infact till we were 30 we had no savings but what was being deducted for SS. We had no equity, no house, no kids, no savings. We also had no debt but also nothing worth selling. We were H1B visa holders who were in limbo for years. We were unable to have a side-gig because we were legally in this country. Anyhow, as soon as we got the GC, our salary doubled. We continued to live as if we were making 35K, saved in our 401K and took the match, and started to save for a down payment on a house. 35K in one year, enabled us to buy a 300K house. We had our 2 kids but we knew that we were lagging behind significantly in our retirement and savings. In another decade (when we were 40), we had saved for college for both the kids and started to save aggressively for retirement investments. I stopped working after saving every single cent I earned for a decade, for my kids education.

350K is a lot of money. In our 50s, we now have 4 years of state college paid for both the kids and 1/2 million each for both of them. We have a 3 million term life insurance. No debts except for the house payment. A retirement that will give us at least 200K per year after taxes and inflation-adjusted, and two million in investments.

Going from living paycheck to paycheck, to a life style that allows us to take foreign vacations with our kids at least once or twice a year, have cleaning service twice a week, be able to pay for tutors and expensive EC activities etc, have nice cars etc - without looking at the price, is a huge luxury.

I think that not having any saving for 8 years of our lives and living in H1B limbo land, with minimal pay - is in the same category as having student debt and childcare cost - at the very least. Where we managed to come out ahead was choosing a DMV area where we could get a SFH for 300K. The schools are not that great, but we were able to bypass the private school costs by working with our kids from the very beginning and giving them an enriched learning environment at home. They were able to be in the magnet programs in the public school system. Of course, my being a SAHM helped because I was able to manage the needs of my family and we did not have daycare costs - but it also meant that we were a single income family and my financial contribution was not measurable in dollar terms or through a 401K contribution.

My kids will however get a leg-up in life that we did not have - no student debt, a car, some cash, no cost for their wedding. We are and will be well-off till the end of our lives if the world is not overtaken by zombies etc.

So, for anyone who is making 350K in their 30s and feeling middle class on this forum, I think that it could be a fair complaint. You have a lot of expenses, but you also have lots of savings in your 30s. Hopefully, when this decade is over and your kids are in school., you will be feeling very rich because you will certainly be rich. Take it from us - we made 350 in our late 40s, played catch up with our retirement. In our 30s, we had no savings and certainly not the lifestyle you are enjoying in your 30s.

Hopefully, you will not feel middle class in your 50s, and instead will feel very wealthy and rich. Because you are. Truly.

You are way too rational for this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Almost all of you are still missing the fact that 95% of the country doesn’t have the luxury of maxing out their 401k, saving for kids’ college, living in one of the most desirable cities to live in, paying for premium childcare and/or private schools for DCs, and on top of that still being able to afford relatively new cars and vacations. (Because today those ARE major luxuries) in no country except maybe Luxembourg is your HHI “middle-class”.

But go ahead and keep keep whining about how you’re middle-class on a 300k HHI, then when you’re surprised when people keep getting elected who want to “drain the swamp” that you live in/off of. or one the other end of the spectrum someone who wants to tax the poo-poo out of you; come back and read about how you think you’re the same as people in fly-over country who are making the ACTUAL median wage.

I don’t think anyone is missing that they are living in an expensive city, saving for retirement, and saving for kids college. It is just the scale of these things and the others you listed is so different in a HCOL city than a small Midwest town. If you read any of the financial articles or watch it on tv they are saying we should all be saving money for our emergency fund, 15% for retirement, and some for kids schooling. We are doing all that and yet the money still doesn’t feel like enough. Is it actually enough? Of course.

I will say again most of the country CAN NOT even do those things they’re stretched so thin
we’d like to be able to save for college for kids and retirement have relatively new cars and take a vacation or two per year
but half the country doesn’t have four hundred dollars to cover an unexpected expense (not hundred thousand, just hundred)
We spend more than 10% of our incomes on insurance premiums and copays (even through work), we still have to buy food and pay our mortgages and for cars and gas. We still have to pay sales taxes, property taxes, and income taxes, have to pay for utilities, etc...

Why do you think most people are so fed up with the current state of things? People wouldn’t say the American dream was dead if most were able to live in the best neighborhoods, save for colleges and retirement, go on vacations, pay for the best childcare, pay for private school, etc... and then still have 1k left over. Plus, heaven forbid you need to downsize and move somewhere cheaper, everyone who owns their house in D.C. could buy a mansion in “flyover” country and STILL have cash left over. What does someone with the average priced house of 250k do?

If you think 300k (top 5%) is middle-class you are clueless.

It feels middle class when there is not much leftover, doesn’t mean it IS middle class. There is a perception that if you make >200k or 300k you are wealthy. It is so much higher than the national median that it must mean anyone making that money is swimming in cash, flying first class, private school for your 3 kids, brand new matching range rovers in the driveway. Again, all perception.

Have you ever thought you should just readjust your perception? Sounds like you just had too high expectations for what you could do on a $200-300k income. Even millionaires can overspend and blow through their income if not careful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Almost all of you are still missing the fact that 95% of the country doesn’t have the luxury of maxing out their 401k, saving for kids’ college, living in one of the most desirable cities to live in, paying for premium childcare and/or private schools for DCs, and on top of that still being able to afford relatively new cars and vacations. (Because today those ARE major luxuries) in no country except maybe Luxembourg is your HHI “middle-class”.

But go ahead and keep keep whining about how you’re middle-class on a 300k HHI, then when you’re surprised when people keep getting elected who want to “drain the swamp” that you live in/off of. or one the other end of the spectrum someone who wants to tax the poo-poo out of you; come back and read about how you think you’re the same as people in fly-over country who are making the ACTUAL median wage.

I don’t think anyone is missing that they are living in an expensive city, saving for retirement, and saving for kids college. It is just the scale of these things and the others you listed is so different in a HCOL city than a small Midwest town. If you read any of the financial articles or watch it on tv they are saying we should all be saving money for our emergency fund, 15% for retirement, and some for kids schooling. We are doing all that and yet the money still doesn’t feel like enough. Is it actually enough? Of course.

I will say again most of the country CAN NOT even do those things they’re stretched so thin
we’d like to be able to save for college for kids and retirement have relatively new cars and take a vacation or two per year
but half the country doesn’t have four hundred dollars to cover an unexpected expense (not hundred thousand, just hundred)
We spend more than 10% of our incomes on insurance premiums and copays (even through work), we still have to buy food and pay our mortgages and for cars and gas. We still have to pay sales taxes, property taxes, and income taxes, have to pay for utilities, etc...

Why do you think most people are so fed up with the current state of things? People wouldn’t say the American dream was dead if most were able to live in the best neighborhoods, save for colleges and retirement, go on vacations, pay for the best childcare, pay for private school, etc... and then still have 1k left over. Plus, heaven forbid you need to downsize and move somewhere cheaper, everyone who owns their house in D.C. could buy a mansion in “flyover” country and STILL have cash left over. What does someone with the average priced house of 250k do?

If you think 300k (top 5%) is middle-class you are clueless.

Most Americans are fat. I’m not going to compare myself to the hoards of Americans who are poor and fat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Almost all of you are still missing the fact that 95% of the country doesn’t have the luxury of maxing out their 401k, saving for kids’ college, living in one of the most desirable cities to live in, paying for premium childcare and/or private schools for DCs, and on top of that still being able to afford relatively new cars and vacations. (Because today those ARE major luxuries) in no country except maybe Luxembourg is your HHI “middle-class”.

But go ahead and keep keep whining about how you’re middle-class on a 300k HHI, then when you’re surprised when people keep getting elected who want to “drain the swamp” that you live in/off of. or one the other end of the spectrum someone who wants to tax the poo-poo out of you; come back and read about how you think you’re the same as people in fly-over country who are making the ACTUAL median wage.

I don’t think anyone is missing that they are living in an expensive city, saving for retirement, and saving for kids college. It is just the scale of these things and the others you listed is so different in a HCOL city than a small Midwest town. If you read any of the financial articles or watch it on tv they are saying we should all be saving money for our emergency fund, 15% for retirement, and some for kids schooling. We are doing all that and yet the money still doesn’t feel like enough. Is it actually enough? Of course.

I will say again most of the country CAN NOT even do those things they’re stretched so thin
we’d like to be able to save for college for kids and retirement have relatively new cars and take a vacation or two per year
but half the country doesn’t have four hundred dollars to cover an unexpected expense (not hundred thousand, just hundred)
We spend more than 10% of our incomes on insurance premiums and copays (even through work), we still have to buy food and pay our mortgages and for cars and gas. We still have to pay sales taxes, property taxes, and income taxes, have to pay for utilities, etc...

Why do you think most people are so fed up with the current state of things? People wouldn’t say the American dream was dead if most were able to live in the best neighborhoods, save for colleges and retirement, go on vacations, pay for the best childcare, pay for private school, etc... and then still have 1k left over. Plus, heaven forbid you need to downsize and move somewhere cheaper, everyone who owns their house in D.C. could buy a mansion in “flyover” country and STILL have cash left over. What does someone with the average priced house of 250k do?

If you think 300k (top 5%) is middle-class you are clueless.

It feels middle class when there is not much leftover, doesn’t mean it IS middle class. There is a perception that if you make >200k or 300k you are wealthy. It is so much higher than the national median that it must mean anyone making that money is swimming in cash, flying first class, private school for your 3 kids, brand new matching range rovers in the driveway. Again, all perception.

If you make $300k HHI, you *can* fly first class, send 3 kids to private, and buy matching range rovers. You just can’t do that *and* save much for retirement.

How? Private school is 50k per year. So we are talking 150k in tuition each year. HHI is 350k. This leaves after taxes and retirement maybe 40k to live off. You’d have to all live in a studio apartment with your three kids and eat canned tuna each night. There definitely wouldn’t be room for luxury vacations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Almost all of you are still missing the fact that 95% of the country doesn’t have the luxury of maxing out their 401k, saving for kids’ college, living in one of the most desirable cities to live in, paying for premium childcare and/or private schools for DCs, and on top of that still being able to afford relatively new cars and vacations. (Because today those ARE major luxuries) in no country except maybe Luxembourg is your HHI “middle-class”.

But go ahead and keep keep whining about how you’re middle-class on a 300k HHI, then when you’re surprised when people keep getting elected who want to “drain the swamp” that you live in/off of. or one the other end of the spectrum someone who wants to tax the poo-poo out of you; come back and read about how you think you’re the same as people in fly-over country who are making the ACTUAL median wage.

I don’t think anyone is missing that they are living in an expensive city, saving for retirement, and saving for kids college. It is just the scale of these things and the others you listed is so different in a HCOL city than a small Midwest town. If you read any of the financial articles or watch it on tv they are saying we should all be saving money for our emergency fund, 15% for retirement, and some for kids schooling. We are doing all that and yet the money still doesn’t feel like enough. Is it actually enough? Of course.

I will say again most of the country CAN NOT even do those things they’re stretched so thin
we’d like to be able to save for college for kids and retirement have relatively new cars and take a vacation or two per year
but half the country doesn’t have four hundred dollars to cover an unexpected expense (not hundred thousand, just hundred)
We spend more than 10% of our incomes on insurance premiums and copays (even through work), we still have to buy food and pay our mortgages and for cars and gas. We still have to pay sales taxes, property taxes, and income taxes, have to pay for utilities, etc...

Why do you think most people are so fed up with the current state of things? People wouldn’t say the American dream was dead if most were able to live in the best neighborhoods, save for colleges and retirement, go on vacations, pay for the best childcare, pay for private school, etc... and then still have 1k left over. Plus, heaven forbid you need to downsize and move somewhere cheaper, everyone who owns their house in D.C. could buy a mansion in “flyover” country and STILL have cash left over. What does someone with the average priced house of 250k do?

If you think 300k (top 5%) is middle-class you are clueless.

It feels middle class when there is not much leftover, doesn’t mean it IS middle class. There is a perception that if you make >200k or 300k you are wealthy. It is so much higher than the national median that it must mean anyone making that money is swimming in cash, flying first class, private school for your 3 kids, brand new matching range rovers in the driveway. Again, all perception.

If you make $300k HHI, you *can* fly first class, send 3 kids to private, and buy matching range rovers. You just can’t do that *and* save much for retirement.

This PP is proof most of these posters live in flyover. Private school tuition is close to $50k here. What, 47k? With a HHi of 300k you’d have to spend every penny you make after taxes to send three kids to private. It’s laughable you think you’d just need to give up saving for retirement. No, you couldn’t even save for retirement and send three kids to private. They’d also need to take on loans for college. Get it now??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Almost all of you are still missing the fact that 95% of the country doesn’t have the luxury of maxing out their 401k, saving for kids’ college, living in one of the most desirable cities to live in, paying for premium childcare and/or private schools for DCs, and on top of that still being able to afford relatively new cars and vacations. (Because today those ARE major luxuries) in no country except maybe Luxembourg is your HHI “middle-class”.

But go ahead and keep keep whining about how you’re middle-class on a 300k HHI, then when you’re surprised when people keep getting elected who want to “drain the swamp” that you live in/off of. or one the other end of the spectrum someone who wants to tax the poo-poo out of you; come back and read about how you think you’re the same as people in fly-over country who are making the ACTUAL median wage.

I don’t think anyone is missing that they are living in an expensive city, saving for retirement, and saving for kids college. It is just the scale of these things and the others you listed is so different in a HCOL city than a small Midwest town. If you read any of the financial articles or watch it on tv they are saying we should all be saving money for our emergency fund, 15% for retirement, and some for kids schooling. We are doing all that and yet the money still doesn’t feel like enough. Is it actually enough? Of course.

I will say again most of the country CAN NOT even do those things they’re stretched so thin
we’d like to be able to save for college for kids and retirement have relatively new cars and take a vacation or two per year
but half the country doesn’t have four hundred dollars to cover an unexpected expense (not hundred thousand, just hundred)
We spend more than 10% of our incomes on insurance premiums and copays (even through work), we still have to buy food and pay our mortgages and for cars and gas. We still have to pay sales taxes, property taxes, and income taxes, have to pay for utilities, etc...

Why do you think most people are so fed up with the current state of things? People wouldn’t say the American dream was dead if most were able to live in the best neighborhoods, save for colleges and retirement, go on vacations, pay for the best childcare, pay for private school, etc... and then still have 1k left over. Plus, heaven forbid you need to downsize and move somewhere cheaper, everyone who owns their house in D.C. could buy a mansion in “flyover” country and STILL have cash left over. What does someone with the average priced house of 250k do?

If you think 300k (top 5%) is middle-class you are clueless.

It feels middle class when there is not much leftover, doesn’t mean it IS middle class. There is a perception that if you make >200k or 300k you are wealthy. It is so much higher than the national median that it must mean anyone making that money is swimming in cash, flying first class, private school for your 3 kids, brand new matching range rovers in the driveway. Again, all perception.

If you make $300k HHI, you *can* fly first class, send 3 kids to private, and buy matching range rovers. You just can’t do that *and* save much for retirement.

This PP is proof most of these posters live in flyover. Private school tuition is close to $50k here. What, 47k? With a HHi of 300k you’d have to spend every penny you make after taxes to send three kids to private. It’s laughable you think you’d just need to give up saving for retirement. No, you couldn’t even save for retirement and send three kids to private. They’d also need to take on loans for college. Get it now??

I weep for you.

[Anonymous]

First of all, that is not a study, apart from how to spend as much money as fast as possible!