Why is there a teacher shortage?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your industry needs to grow up and get with supply and demand

DC pays teachers over 100k within 5-10 years if you are good enough

Sure, but the field has really struggled with figuring out how someone is “good enough.” How do you identify the strong teachers? Is it test scores? How do you address the many variables that affect those? Is it parent reviews? Student feedback? Admin observations? It’s remarkably difficult to quantify “strong teachers.” A lot of teaching is an art. That’s why merely having a certain degree isn’t enough. Can you effectively relay your content knowledge to a child?

Also… DC is also facing shortages. Paying teachers more isn’t enough.

I'm not a teacher but the most effective thing I have seen is 1/3 test scores, 1/3 principal/supervisor Evalution and 1/3 student evaluation.

I agree pay isn't the issue. It's just more of a bad whining look of those in the profession. The salaries are public knowledge, everyone knows what they are before signing up.

I will say the scope/expectations have changed with all the extra paperwork and helicopter parents. That's a legitimate gripe and something you couldn't have predicted.

I will absolutely not accept 1/3 test scores, 1/3 evaluations, 1/3 student evaluations. Test scores: how do you account for general ed classes vs. honors classes? Special education? High FARMS rate schools? I once had to take a failing mark on *MY* test data because a student was expelled before the test and wasn’t there to take it. Why should I be held accountable for that? Evaluations: These are ridiculously subjective. All it takes is for a teacher to upset an administrator, and the score goes down. I once lost a ton of points on an eval because a student didn’t have his book on his desk. Why should I lose pay for that? The other 30 students were doing just fine. Student evaluations: I have had to give plenty of failing grades for plagiarized assignments. What type of evaluation do you think I’m going to get from those students? Some teachers are extremely permissive and therefore popular with students. Students may not learn a thing in that class, but the teacher would get high marks.

Accuse me all you want of a “bad whining look.” I’m not going to play the role of the martyr anymore. This job is challenging and this job is important. Frankly, a functioning society depends on it. I don’t care if it looks like teachers are whining. It’s time to stop being doormats.

Please quit instead of complaining just quit. Why would you stay in a job that makes you so miserable, you are toxic to your colleagues and folks that actually want to be there

When things are wrong, people need to speak up to change them. Staying silent and accepting bad treatment is why teachers are so undervalued and underpaid. This shortage, the whole topic of this thread, is happening because teachers are doing exactly what you said: leave if you are miserable. They are leaving in droves. There are recommendations throughout this thread about how to counteract that. Since teachers’ valid concerns are seen as toxic and complaining, how far do you think we are going to get in solving this teacher shortage?

Except you’re not trying to improve things; you’re just complaining. Worse, you actually seem to be pushing back on proposals that could improve things like teacher pay and respect for the profession. That's what makes you toxic.

Can you point to things I wrote that push back on teacher pay and respect for the profession? I’m very sure I have directly stated what I believe needs to be done to improve pay and respect.

I’ve spoken to the BOE multiple times in support of teachers and students. I support newer teachers and serve as a mentor. You have no idea what I’ve done to support my profession. All you’ve seen is my frustration in an anonymous forum. I’m saying what many others are thinking. Instead of dismissing me, try listening.

You seem to say we shouldn’t assess the performance of teachers. And I’m guessing you‘re the same poster the doesn’t want to pay harder-to-fill positions more than other teachers. You’re not going to improve respect for teachers as long as teachers continue to reject performance assessments. And you’re not going to improve pay unless districts have the flexibility to pay what is necessary to recruit teachers in each area.

You are incorrect. I fully support teacher evaluations. I rejected ONE proposal that put 33% on student surveys, 33% on observations, and 33% on testing. Rejecting ONE proposal does not mean I don’t support assessment of performance. As for pay, I reject pitting teachers against each other by raising some pay and not others. I believe ALL teachers deserve better compensation. Since we are facing a shortage in historically easy-to-fill positions, I don’t see how keeping certain teachers’ pay lower is a viable choice.

You seem to be ignoring the immense amount of variables that go into these decisions. Should we link type of degree to pay, or should we link performance to pay? Somebody with a PhD in Chemistry may be brilliant in their field, but may lack the skills necessary to translate that content knowledge to others. Likewise, your BA-possessing 3rd grade teacher may not be as strong in certain content, but may have the personality and skills to engage students and push them further. Who gets more pay, the one with the content knowledge or the one with the better performance? How is that measured? What about the teacher who works in a school with disadvantaged students and limited resources? Their performance may not look as impressive on paper, but they may actually move students further. What about the general Ed teacher with 25 students with IEPs in addition to 100 other students? Should they get paid less than the SPED teacher with 30 students? Pay scales that differ will cause further animosity because you CAN’T adequately account for the many, many variables. This is not a reasonable solution. The reasonable solution is what I have been saying repeatedly: raise ALL salaries. What I have heard from you is a rather insulting idea that education and liberal arts majors have already hit their worth with the current salary scales. I simply disagree.

I’m not rejecting higher pay or teacher performance assessments. I’m rejecting the very narrow and damaging ideas presented on this thread.

And your solution is. All you have done is complain

Can you point to the complaints above? I don’t see where I have complained. I’ve simply disagreed with you, which is not the same as complaining.

My solution… again… is to raise ALL pay to make the field more attractive. Increasing entrance requirements and evaluating teacher performance can go along with that to justify the higher pay. I have no problem with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your industry needs to grow up and get with supply and demand

DC pays teachers over 100k within 5-10 years if you are good enough

Sure, but the field has really struggled with figuring out how someone is “good enough.” How do you identify the strong teachers? Is it test scores? How do you address the many variables that affect those? Is it parent reviews? Student feedback? Admin observations? It’s remarkably difficult to quantify “strong teachers.” A lot of teaching is an art. That’s why merely having a certain degree isn’t enough. Can you effectively relay your content knowledge to a child?

Also… DC is also facing shortages. Paying teachers more isn’t enough.

I'm not a teacher but the most effective thing I have seen is 1/3 test scores, 1/3 principal/supervisor Evalution and 1/3 student evaluation.

I agree pay isn't the issue. It's just more of a bad whining look of those in the profession. The salaries are public knowledge, everyone knows what they are before signing up.

I will say the scope/expectations have changed with all the extra paperwork and helicopter parents. That's a legitimate gripe and something you couldn't have predicted.

I will absolutely not accept 1/3 test scores, 1/3 evaluations, 1/3 student evaluations. Test scores: how do you account for general ed classes vs. honors classes? Special education? High FARMS rate schools? I once had to take a failing mark on *MY* test data because a student was expelled before the test and wasn’t there to take it. Why should I be held accountable for that? Evaluations: These are ridiculously subjective. All it takes is for a teacher to upset an administrator, and the score goes down. I once lost a ton of points on an eval because a student didn’t have his book on his desk. Why should I lose pay for that? The other 30 students were doing just fine. Student evaluations: I have had to give plenty of failing grades for plagiarized assignments. What type of evaluation do you think I’m going to get from those students? Some teachers are extremely permissive and therefore popular with students. Students may not learn a thing in that class, but the teacher would get high marks.

Accuse me all you want of a “bad whining look.” I’m not going to play the role of the martyr anymore. This job is challenging and this job is important. Frankly, a functioning society depends on it. I don’t care if it looks like teachers are whining. It’s time to stop being doormats.

Please quit instead of complaining just quit. Why would you stay in a job that makes you so miserable, you are toxic to your colleagues and folks that actually want to be there

When things are wrong, people need to speak up to change them. Staying silent and accepting bad treatment is why teachers are so undervalued and underpaid. This shortage, the whole topic of this thread, is happening because teachers are doing exactly what you said: leave if you are miserable. They are leaving in droves. There are recommendations throughout this thread about how to counteract that. Since teachers’ valid concerns are seen as toxic and complaining, how far do you think we are going to get in solving this teacher shortage?

Except you’re not trying to improve things; you’re just complaining. Worse, you actually seem to be pushing back on proposals that could improve things like teacher pay and respect for the profession. That's what makes you toxic.

Hang on there Britney Spears. I not the same poster, but why didn’t you respond when I asked you how you thought the 3-4 year olds I teach should have the power to pay me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your industry needs to grow up and get with supply and demand

DC pays teachers over 100k within 5-10 years if you are good enough

Sure, but the field has really struggled with figuring out how someone is “good enough.” How do you identify the strong teachers? Is it test scores? How do you address the many variables that affect those? Is it parent reviews? Student feedback? Admin observations? It’s remarkably difficult to quantify “strong teachers.” A lot of teaching is an art. That’s why merely having a certain degree isn’t enough. Can you effectively relay your content knowledge to a child?

Also… DC is also facing shortages. Paying teachers more isn’t enough.

I'm not a teacher but the most effective thing I have seen is 1/3 test scores, 1/3 principal/supervisor Evalution and 1/3 student evaluation.

I agree pay isn't the issue. It's just more of a bad whining look of those in the profession. The salaries are public knowledge, everyone knows what they are before signing up.

I will say the scope/expectations have changed with all the extra paperwork and helicopter parents. That's a legitimate gripe and something you couldn't have predicted.

I will absolutely not accept 1/3 test scores, 1/3 evaluations, 1/3 student evaluations. Test scores: how do you account for general ed classes vs. honors classes? Special education? High FARMS rate schools? I once had to take a failing mark on *MY* test data because a student was expelled before the test and wasn’t there to take it. Why should I be held accountable for that? Evaluations: These are ridiculously subjective. All it takes is for a teacher to upset an administrator, and the score goes down. I once lost a ton of points on an eval because a student didn’t have his book on his desk. Why should I lose pay for that? The other 30 students were doing just fine. Student evaluations: I have had to give plenty of failing grades for plagiarized assignments. What type of evaluation do you think I’m going to get from those students? Some teachers are extremely permissive and therefore popular with students. Students may not learn a thing in that class, but the teacher would get high marks.

Accuse me all you want of a “bad whining look.” I’m not going to play the role of the martyr anymore. This job is challenging and this job is important. Frankly, a functioning society depends on it. I don’t care if it looks like teachers are whining. It’s time to stop being doormats.

Please quit instead of complaining just quit. Why would you stay in a job that makes you so miserable, you are toxic to your colleagues and folks that actually want to be there

When things are wrong, people need to speak up to change them. Staying silent and accepting bad treatment is why teachers are so undervalued and underpaid. This shortage, the whole topic of this thread, is happening because teachers are doing exactly what you said: leave if you are miserable. They are leaving in droves. There are recommendations throughout this thread about how to counteract that. Since teachers’ valid concerns are seen as toxic and complaining, how far do you think we are going to get in solving this teacher shortage?

Except you’re not trying to improve things; you’re just complaining. Worse, you actually seem to be pushing back on proposals that could improve things like teacher pay and respect for the profession. That's what makes you toxic.

Hang on there Britney Spears. I not the same poster, but why didn’t you respond when I asked you how you thought the 3-4 year olds I teach should have the power to pay me.

PP here, but I’m the pp that proposed using student evals as a direct input to performance assessments and raises. I agree that’s dumb. Do it how every other profession does it: management does assessments based on a subjective review of a variety of factors, which could include observation, peer reviews, test scores, grades, and student evaluations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your industry needs to grow up and get with supply and demand

DC pays teachers over 100k within 5-10 years if you are good enough

Sure, but the field has really struggled with figuring out how someone is “good enough.” How do you identify the strong teachers? Is it test scores? How do you address the many variables that affect those? Is it parent reviews? Student feedback? Admin observations? It’s remarkably difficult to quantify “strong teachers.” A lot of teaching is an art. That’s why merely having a certain degree isn’t enough. Can you effectively relay your content knowledge to a child?

Also… DC is also facing shortages. Paying teachers more isn’t enough.

I'm not a teacher but the most effective thing I have seen is 1/3 test scores, 1/3 principal/supervisor Evalution and 1/3 student evaluation.

I agree pay isn't the issue. It's just more of a bad whining look of those in the profession. The salaries are public knowledge, everyone knows what they are before signing up.

I will say the scope/expectations have changed with all the extra paperwork and helicopter parents. That's a legitimate gripe and something you couldn't have predicted.

I will absolutely not accept 1/3 test scores, 1/3 evaluations, 1/3 student evaluations. Test scores: how do you account for general ed classes vs. honors classes? Special education? High FARMS rate schools? I once had to take a failing mark on *MY* test data because a student was expelled before the test and wasn’t there to take it. Why should I be held accountable for that? Evaluations: These are ridiculously subjective. All it takes is for a teacher to upset an administrator, and the score goes down. I once lost a ton of points on an eval because a student didn’t have his book on his desk. Why should I lose pay for that? The other 30 students were doing just fine. Student evaluations: I have had to give plenty of failing grades for plagiarized assignments. What type of evaluation do you think I’m going to get from those students? Some teachers are extremely permissive and therefore popular with students. Students may not learn a thing in that class, but the teacher would get high marks.

Accuse me all you want of a “bad whining look.” I’m not going to play the role of the martyr anymore. This job is challenging and this job is important. Frankly, a functioning society depends on it. I don’t care if it looks like teachers are whining. It’s time to stop being doormats.

Please quit instead of complaining just quit. Why would you stay in a job that makes you so miserable, you are toxic to your colleagues and folks that actually want to be there

When things are wrong, people need to speak up to change them. Staying silent and accepting bad treatment is why teachers are so undervalued and underpaid. This shortage, the whole topic of this thread, is happening because teachers are doing exactly what you said: leave if you are miserable. They are leaving in droves. There are recommendations throughout this thread about how to counteract that. Since teachers’ valid concerns are seen as toxic and complaining, how far do you think we are going to get in solving this teacher shortage?

Except you’re not trying to improve things; you’re just complaining. Worse, you actually seem to be pushing back on proposals that could improve things like teacher pay and respect for the profession. That's what makes you toxic.

Can you point to things I wrote that push back on teacher pay and respect for the profession? I’m very sure I have directly stated what I believe needs to be done to improve pay and respect.

I’ve spoken to the BOE multiple times in support of teachers and students. I support newer teachers and serve as a mentor. You have no idea what I’ve done to support my profession. All you’ve seen is my frustration in an anonymous forum. I’m saying what many others are thinking. Instead of dismissing me, try listening.

You seem to say we shouldn’t assess the performance of teachers. And I’m guessing you‘re the same poster the doesn’t want to pay harder-to-fill positions more than other teachers. You’re not going to improve respect for teachers as long as teachers continue to reject performance assessments. And you’re not going to improve pay unless districts have the flexibility to pay what is necessary to recruit teachers in each area.

You are incorrect. I fully support teacher evaluations. I rejected ONE proposal that put 33% on student surveys, 33% on observations, and 33% on testing. Rejecting ONE proposal does not mean I don’t support assessment of performance. As for pay, I reject pitting teachers against each other by raising some pay and not others. I believe ALL teachers deserve better compensation. Since we are facing a shortage in historically easy-to-fill positions, I don’t see how keeping certain teachers’ pay lower is a viable choice.

You seem to be ignoring the immense amount of variables that go into these decisions. Should we link type of degree to pay, or should we link performance to pay? Somebody with a PhD in Chemistry may be brilliant in their field, but may lack the skills necessary to translate that content knowledge to others. Likewise, your BA-possessing 3rd grade teacher may not be as strong in certain content, but may have the personality and skills to engage students and push them further. Who gets more pay, the one with the content knowledge or the one with the better performance? How is that measured? What about the teacher who works in a school with disadvantaged students and limited resources? Their performance may not look as impressive on paper, but they may actually move students further. What about the general Ed teacher with 25 students with IEPs in addition to 100 other students? Should they get paid less than the SPED teacher with 30 students? Pay scales that differ will cause further animosity because you CAN’T adequately account for the many, many variables. This is not a reasonable solution. The reasonable solution is what I have been saying repeatedly: raise ALL salaries. What I have heard from you is a rather insulting idea that education and liberal arts majors have already hit their worth with the current salary scales. I simply disagree.

I’m not rejecting higher pay or teacher performance assessments. I’m rejecting the very narrow and damaging ideas presented on this thread.

And your solution is. All you have done is complain

Can you point to the complaints above? I don’t see where I have complained. I’ve simply disagreed with you, which is not the same as complaining.

My solution… again… is to raise ALL pay to make the field more attractive. Increasing entrance requirements and evaluating teacher performance can go along with that to justify the higher pay. I have no problem with that.

DP
I don’t see where you complained and I mentioned the same to a post earlier in the thread.

[Anonymous]

Generous pensions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your industry needs to grow up and get with supply and demand

DC pays teachers over 100k within 5-10 years if you are good enough

Sure, but the field has really struggled with figuring out how someone is “good enough.” How do you identify the strong teachers? Is it test scores? How do you address the many variables that affect those? Is it parent reviews? Student feedback? Admin observations? It’s remarkably difficult to quantify “strong teachers.” A lot of teaching is an art. That’s why merely having a certain degree isn’t enough. Can you effectively relay your content knowledge to a child?

Also… DC is also facing shortages. Paying teachers more isn’t enough.

I'm not a teacher but the most effective thing I have seen is 1/3 test scores, 1/3 principal/supervisor Evalution and 1/3 student evaluation.

I agree pay isn't the issue. It's just more of a bad whining look of those in the profession. The salaries are public knowledge, everyone knows what they are before signing up.

I will say the scope/expectations have changed with all the extra paperwork and helicopter parents. That's a legitimate gripe and something you couldn't have predicted.

I will absolutely not accept 1/3 test scores, 1/3 evaluations, 1/3 student evaluations. Test scores: how do you account for general ed classes vs. honors classes? Special education? High FARMS rate schools? I once had to take a failing mark on *MY* test data because a student was expelled before the test and wasn’t there to take it. Why should I be held accountable for that? Evaluations: These are ridiculously subjective. All it takes is for a teacher to upset an administrator, and the score goes down. I once lost a ton of points on an eval because a student didn’t have his book on his desk. Why should I lose pay for that? The other 30 students were doing just fine. Student evaluations: I have had to give plenty of failing grades for plagiarized assignments. What type of evaluation do you think I’m going to get from those students? Some teachers are extremely permissive and therefore popular with students. Students may not learn a thing in that class, but the teacher would get high marks.

Accuse me all you want of a “bad whining look.” I’m not going to play the role of the martyr anymore. This job is challenging and this job is important. Frankly, a functioning society depends on it. I don’t care if it looks like teachers are whining. It’s time to stop being doormats.

Please quit instead of complaining just quit. Why would you stay in a job that makes you so miserable, you are toxic to your colleagues and folks that actually want to be there

When things are wrong, people need to speak up to change them. Staying silent and accepting bad treatment is why teachers are so undervalued and underpaid. This shortage, the whole topic of this thread, is happening because teachers are doing exactly what you said: leave if you are miserable. They are leaving in droves. There are recommendations throughout this thread about how to counteract that. Since teachers’ valid concerns are seen as toxic and complaining, how far do you think we are going to get in solving this teacher shortage?

Except you’re not trying to improve things; you’re just complaining. Worse, you actually seem to be pushing back on proposals that could improve things like teacher pay and respect for the profession. That's what makes you toxic.

Can you point to things I wrote that push back on teacher pay and respect for the profession? I’m very sure I have directly stated what I believe needs to be done to improve pay and respect.

I’ve spoken to the BOE multiple times in support of teachers and students. I support newer teachers and serve as a mentor. You have no idea what I’ve done to support my profession. All you’ve seen is my frustration in an anonymous forum. I’m saying what many others are thinking. Instead of dismissing me, try listening.

You seem to say we shouldn’t assess the performance of teachers. And I’m guessing you‘re the same poster the doesn’t want to pay harder-to-fill positions more than other teachers. You’re not going to improve respect for teachers as long as teachers continue to reject performance assessments. And you’re not going to improve pay unless districts have the flexibility to pay what is necessary to recruit teachers in each area.

You are incorrect. I fully support teacher evaluations. I rejected ONE proposal that put 33% on student surveys, 33% on observations, and 33% on testing. Rejecting ONE proposal does not mean I don’t support assessment of performance. As for pay, I reject pitting teachers against each other by raising some pay and not others. I believe ALL teachers deserve better compensation. Since we are facing a shortage in historically easy-to-fill positions, I don’t see how keeping certain teachers’ pay lower is a viable choice.

You seem to be ignoring the immense amount of variables that go into these decisions. Should we link type of degree to pay, or should we link performance to pay? Somebody with a PhD in Chemistry may be brilliant in their field, but may lack the skills necessary to translate that content knowledge to others. Likewise, your BA-possessing 3rd grade teacher may not be as strong in certain content, but may have the personality and skills to engage students and push them further. Who gets more pay, the one with the content knowledge or the one with the better performance? How is that measured? What about the teacher who works in a school with disadvantaged students and limited resources? Their performance may not look as impressive on paper, but they may actually move students further. What about the general Ed teacher with 25 students with IEPs in addition to 100 other students? Should they get paid less than the SPED teacher with 30 students? Pay scales that differ will cause further animosity because you CAN’T adequately account for the many, many variables. This is not a reasonable solution. The reasonable solution is what I have been saying repeatedly: raise ALL salaries. What I have heard from you is a rather insulting idea that education and liberal arts majors have already hit their worth with the current salary scales. I simply disagree.

I’m not rejecting higher pay or teacher performance assessments. I’m rejecting the very narrow and damaging ideas presented on this thread.

And your solution is. All you have done is complain

Can you point to the complaints above? I don’t see where I have complained. I’ve simply disagreed with you, which is not the same as complaining.

My solution… again… is to raise ALL pay to make the field more attractive. Increasing entrance requirements and evaluating teacher performance can go along with that to justify the higher pay. I have no problem with that.

English teacher, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your industry needs to grow up and get with supply and demand

DC pays teachers over 100k within 5-10 years if you are good enough

Sure, but the field has really struggled with figuring out how someone is “good enough.” How do you identify the strong teachers? Is it test scores? How do you address the many variables that affect those? Is it parent reviews? Student feedback? Admin observations? It’s remarkably difficult to quantify “strong teachers.” A lot of teaching is an art. That’s why merely having a certain degree isn’t enough. Can you effectively relay your content knowledge to a child?

Also… DC is also facing shortages. Paying teachers more isn’t enough.

I'm not a teacher but the most effective thing I have seen is 1/3 test scores, 1/3 principal/supervisor Evalution and 1/3 student evaluation.

I agree pay isn't the issue. It's just more of a bad whining look of those in the profession. The salaries are public knowledge, everyone knows what they are before signing up.

I will say the scope/expectations have changed with all the extra paperwork and helicopter parents. That's a legitimate gripe and something you couldn't have predicted.

I will absolutely not accept 1/3 test scores, 1/3 evaluations, 1/3 student evaluations. Test scores: how do you account for general ed classes vs. honors classes? Special education? High FARMS rate schools? I once had to take a failing mark on *MY* test data because a student was expelled before the test and wasn’t there to take it. Why should I be held accountable for that? Evaluations: These are ridiculously subjective. All it takes is for a teacher to upset an administrator, and the score goes down. I once lost a ton of points on an eval because a student didn’t have his book on his desk. Why should I lose pay for that? The other 30 students were doing just fine. Student evaluations: I have had to give plenty of failing grades for plagiarized assignments. What type of evaluation do you think I’m going to get from those students? Some teachers are extremely permissive and therefore popular with students. Students may not learn a thing in that class, but the teacher would get high marks.

Accuse me all you want of a “bad whining look.” I’m not going to play the role of the martyr anymore. This job is challenging and this job is important. Frankly, a functioning society depends on it. I don’t care if it looks like teachers are whining. It’s time to stop being doormats.

Please quit instead of complaining just quit. Why would you stay in a job that makes you so miserable, you are toxic to your colleagues and folks that actually want to be there

When things are wrong, people need to speak up to change them. Staying silent and accepting bad treatment is why teachers are so undervalued and underpaid. This shortage, the whole topic of this thread, is happening because teachers are doing exactly what you said: leave if you are miserable. They are leaving in droves. There are recommendations throughout this thread about how to counteract that. Since teachers’ valid concerns are seen as toxic and complaining, how far do you think we are going to get in solving this teacher shortage?

Except you’re not trying to improve things; you’re just complaining. Worse, you actually seem to be pushing back on proposals that could improve things like teacher pay and respect for the profession. That's what makes you toxic.

Can you point to things I wrote that push back on teacher pay and respect for the profession? I’m very sure I have directly stated what I believe needs to be done to improve pay and respect.

I’ve spoken to the BOE multiple times in support of teachers and students. I support newer teachers and serve as a mentor. You have no idea what I’ve done to support my profession. All you’ve seen is my frustration in an anonymous forum. I’m saying what many others are thinking. Instead of dismissing me, try listening.

You seem to say we shouldn’t assess the performance of teachers. And I’m guessing you‘re the same poster the doesn’t want to pay harder-to-fill positions more than other teachers. You’re not going to improve respect for teachers as long as teachers continue to reject performance assessments. And you’re not going to improve pay unless districts have the flexibility to pay what is necessary to recruit teachers in each area.

You are incorrect. I fully support teacher evaluations. I rejected ONE proposal that put 33% on student surveys, 33% on observations, and 33% on testing. Rejecting ONE proposal does not mean I don’t support assessment of performance. As for pay, I reject pitting teachers against each other by raising some pay and not others. I believe ALL teachers deserve better compensation. Since we are facing a shortage in historically easy-to-fill positions, I don’t see how keeping certain teachers’ pay lower is a viable choice.

You seem to be ignoring the immense amount of variables that go into these decisions. Should we link type of degree to pay, or should we link performance to pay? Somebody with a PhD in Chemistry may be brilliant in their field, but may lack the skills necessary to translate that content knowledge to others. Likewise, your BA-possessing 3rd grade teacher may not be as strong in certain content, but may have the personality and skills to engage students and push them further. Who gets more pay, the one with the content knowledge or the one with the better performance? How is that measured? What about the teacher who works in a school with disadvantaged students and limited resources? Their performance may not look as impressive on paper, but they may actually move students further. What about the general Ed teacher with 25 students with IEPs in addition to 100 other students? Should they get paid less than the SPED teacher with 30 students? Pay scales that differ will cause further animosity because you CAN’T adequately account for the many, many variables. This is not a reasonable solution. The reasonable solution is what I have been saying repeatedly: raise ALL salaries. What I have heard from you is a rather insulting idea that education and liberal arts majors have already hit their worth with the current salary scales. I simply disagree.

I’m not rejecting higher pay or teacher performance assessments. I’m rejecting the very narrow and damaging ideas presented on this thread.

And your solution is. All you have done is complain

Can you point to the complaints above? I don’t see where I have complained. I’ve simply disagreed with you, which is not the same as complaining.

My solution… again… is to raise ALL pay to make the field more attractive. Increasing entrance requirements and evaluating teacher performance can go along with that to justify the higher pay. I have no problem with that.

DP
I don’t see where you complained and I mentioned the same to a post earlier in the thread.

Thank you for the support!

I’m passionate about this profession. I was upset at the implication that Education and Liberal Arts majors are somehow “less than,” especially considering that the mark of a good teacher rarely, if ever, has anything to do with a particular college degree. Since the teaching shortage is affecting all disciplines, the supply/demand argument isn’t as relevant as it once was. We need to attract all types of teachers.

I find it odd that I was called out so harshly for suggesting that all teachers deserve more pay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your industry needs to grow up and get with supply and demand

DC pays teachers over 100k within 5-10 years if you are good enough

Sure, but the field has really struggled with figuring out how someone is “good enough.” How do you identify the strong teachers? Is it test scores? How do you address the many variables that affect those? Is it parent reviews? Student feedback? Admin observations? It’s remarkably difficult to quantify “strong teachers.” A lot of teaching is an art. That’s why merely having a certain degree isn’t enough. Can you effectively relay your content knowledge to a child?

Also… DC is also facing shortages. Paying teachers more isn’t enough.

I'm not a teacher but the most effective thing I have seen is 1/3 test scores, 1/3 principal/supervisor Evalution and 1/3 student evaluation.

I agree pay isn't the issue. It's just more of a bad whining look of those in the profession. The salaries are public knowledge, everyone knows what they are before signing up.

I will say the scope/expectations have changed with all the extra paperwork and helicopter parents. That's a legitimate gripe and something you couldn't have predicted.

I will absolutely not accept 1/3 test scores, 1/3 evaluations, 1/3 student evaluations. Test scores: how do you account for general ed classes vs. honors classes? Special education? High FARMS rate schools? I once had to take a failing mark on *MY* test data because a student was expelled before the test and wasn’t there to take it. Why should I be held accountable for that? Evaluations: These are ridiculously subjective. All it takes is for a teacher to upset an administrator, and the score goes down. I once lost a ton of points on an eval because a student didn’t have his book on his desk. Why should I lose pay for that? The other 30 students were doing just fine. Student evaluations: I have had to give plenty of failing grades for plagiarized assignments. What type of evaluation do you think I’m going to get from those students? Some teachers are extremely permissive and therefore popular with students. Students may not learn a thing in that class, but the teacher would get high marks.

Accuse me all you want of a “bad whining look.” I’m not going to play the role of the martyr anymore. This job is challenging and this job is important. Frankly, a functioning society depends on it. I don’t care if it looks like teachers are whining. It’s time to stop being doormats.

Please quit instead of complaining just quit. Why would you stay in a job that makes you so miserable, you are toxic to your colleagues and folks that actually want to be there

When things are wrong, people need to speak up to change them. Staying silent and accepting bad treatment is why teachers are so undervalued and underpaid. This shortage, the whole topic of this thread, is happening because teachers are doing exactly what you said: leave if you are miserable. They are leaving in droves. There are recommendations throughout this thread about how to counteract that. Since teachers’ valid concerns are seen as toxic and complaining, how far do you think we are going to get in solving this teacher shortage?

Except you’re not trying to improve things; you’re just complaining. Worse, you actually seem to be pushing back on proposals that could improve things like teacher pay and respect for the profession. That's what makes you toxic.

Can you point to things I wrote that push back on teacher pay and respect for the profession? I’m very sure I have directly stated what I believe needs to be done to improve pay and respect.

I’ve spoken to the BOE multiple times in support of teachers and students. I support newer teachers and serve as a mentor. You have no idea what I’ve done to support my profession. All you’ve seen is my frustration in an anonymous forum. I’m saying what many others are thinking. Instead of dismissing me, try listening.

You seem to say we shouldn’t assess the performance of teachers. And I’m guessing you‘re the same poster the doesn’t want to pay harder-to-fill positions more than other teachers. You’re not going to improve respect for teachers as long as teachers continue to reject performance assessments. And you’re not going to improve pay unless districts have the flexibility to pay what is necessary to recruit teachers in each area.

You are incorrect. I fully support teacher evaluations. I rejected ONE proposal that put 33% on student surveys, 33% on observations, and 33% on testing. Rejecting ONE proposal does not mean I don’t support assessment of performance. As for pay, I reject pitting teachers against each other by raising some pay and not others. I believe ALL teachers deserve better compensation. Since we are facing a shortage in historically easy-to-fill positions, I don’t see how keeping certain teachers’ pay lower is a viable choice.

You seem to be ignoring the immense amount of variables that go into these decisions. Should we link type of degree to pay, or should we link performance to pay? Somebody with a PhD in Chemistry may be brilliant in their field, but may lack the skills necessary to translate that content knowledge to others. Likewise, your BA-possessing 3rd grade teacher may not be as strong in certain content, but may have the personality and skills to engage students and push them further. Who gets more pay, the one with the content knowledge or the one with the better performance? How is that measured? What about the teacher who works in a school with disadvantaged students and limited resources? Their performance may not look as impressive on paper, but they may actually move students further. What about the general Ed teacher with 25 students with IEPs in addition to 100 other students? Should they get paid less than the SPED teacher with 30 students? Pay scales that differ will cause further animosity because you CAN’T adequately account for the many, many variables. This is not a reasonable solution. The reasonable solution is what I have been saying repeatedly: raise ALL salaries. What I have heard from you is a rather insulting idea that education and liberal arts majors have already hit their worth with the current salary scales. I simply disagree.

I’m not rejecting higher pay or teacher performance assessments. I’m rejecting the very narrow and damaging ideas presented on this thread.

And your solution is. All you have done is complain

Can you point to the complaints above? I don’t see where I have complained. I’ve simply disagreed with you, which is not the same as complaining.

My solution… again… is to raise ALL pay to make the field more attractive. Increasing entrance requirements and evaluating teacher performance can go along with that to justify the higher pay. I have no problem with that.

English teacher, right?

Yes. Does that somehow have an impact on my argument?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your industry needs to grow up and get with supply and demand

DC pays teachers over 100k within 5-10 years if you are good enough

Sure, but the field has really struggled with figuring out how someone is “good enough.” How do you identify the strong teachers? Is it test scores? How do you address the many variables that affect those? Is it parent reviews? Student feedback? Admin observations? It’s remarkably difficult to quantify “strong teachers.” A lot of teaching is an art. That’s why merely having a certain degree isn’t enough. Can you effectively relay your content knowledge to a child?

Also… DC is also facing shortages. Paying teachers more isn’t enough.

I'm not a teacher but the most effective thing I have seen is 1/3 test scores, 1/3 principal/supervisor Evalution and 1/3 student evaluation.

I agree pay isn't the issue. It's just more of a bad whining look of those in the profession. The salaries are public knowledge, everyone knows what they are before signing up.

I will say the scope/expectations have changed with all the extra paperwork and helicopter parents. That's a legitimate gripe and something you couldn't have predicted.

I will absolutely not accept 1/3 test scores, 1/3 evaluations, 1/3 student evaluations. Test scores: how do you account for general ed classes vs. honors classes? Special education? High FARMS rate schools? I once had to take a failing mark on *MY* test data because a student was expelled before the test and wasn’t there to take it. Why should I be held accountable for that? Evaluations: These are ridiculously subjective. All it takes is for a teacher to upset an administrator, and the score goes down. I once lost a ton of points on an eval because a student didn’t have his book on his desk. Why should I lose pay for that? The other 30 students were doing just fine. Student evaluations: I have had to give plenty of failing grades for plagiarized assignments. What type of evaluation do you think I’m going to get from those students? Some teachers are extremely permissive and therefore popular with students. Students may not learn a thing in that class, but the teacher would get high marks.

Accuse me all you want of a “bad whining look.” I’m not going to play the role of the martyr anymore. This job is challenging and this job is important. Frankly, a functioning society depends on it. I don’t care if it looks like teachers are whining. It’s time to stop being doormats.

Please quit instead of complaining just quit. Why would you stay in a job that makes you so miserable, you are toxic to your colleagues and folks that actually want to be there

When things are wrong, people need to speak up to change them. Staying silent and accepting bad treatment is why teachers are so undervalued and underpaid. This shortage, the whole topic of this thread, is happening because teachers are doing exactly what you said: leave if you are miserable. They are leaving in droves. There are recommendations throughout this thread about how to counteract that. Since teachers’ valid concerns are seen as toxic and complaining, how far do you think we are going to get in solving this teacher shortage?

Except you’re not trying to improve things; you’re just complaining. Worse, you actually seem to be pushing back on proposals that could improve things like teacher pay and respect for the profession. That's what makes you toxic.

Can you point to things I wrote that push back on teacher pay and respect for the profession? I’m very sure I have directly stated what I believe needs to be done to improve pay and respect.

I’ve spoken to the BOE multiple times in support of teachers and students. I support newer teachers and serve as a mentor. You have no idea what I’ve done to support my profession. All you’ve seen is my frustration in an anonymous forum. I’m saying what many others are thinking. Instead of dismissing me, try listening.

You seem to say we shouldn’t assess the performance of teachers. And I’m guessing you‘re the same poster the doesn’t want to pay harder-to-fill positions more than other teachers. You’re not going to improve respect for teachers as long as teachers continue to reject performance assessments. And you’re not going to improve pay unless districts have the flexibility to pay what is necessary to recruit teachers in each area.

You are incorrect. I fully support teacher evaluations. I rejected ONE proposal that put 33% on student surveys, 33% on observations, and 33% on testing. Rejecting ONE proposal does not mean I don’t support assessment of performance. As for pay, I reject pitting teachers against each other by raising some pay and not others. I believe ALL teachers deserve better compensation. Since we are facing a shortage in historically easy-to-fill positions, I don’t see how keeping certain teachers’ pay lower is a viable choice.

You seem to be ignoring the immense amount of variables that go into these decisions. Should we link type of degree to pay, or should we link performance to pay? Somebody with a PhD in Chemistry may be brilliant in their field, but may lack the skills necessary to translate that content knowledge to others. Likewise, your BA-possessing 3rd grade teacher may not be as strong in certain content, but may have the personality and skills to engage students and push them further. Who gets more pay, the one with the content knowledge or the one with the better performance? How is that measured? What about the teacher who works in a school with disadvantaged students and limited resources? Their performance may not look as impressive on paper, but they may actually move students further. What about the general Ed teacher with 25 students with IEPs in addition to 100 other students? Should they get paid less than the SPED teacher with 30 students? Pay scales that differ will cause further animosity because you CAN’T adequately account for the many, many variables. This is not a reasonable solution. The reasonable solution is what I have been saying repeatedly: raise ALL salaries. What I have heard from you is a rather insulting idea that education and liberal arts majors have already hit their worth with the current salary scales. I simply disagree.

I’m not rejecting higher pay or teacher performance assessments. I’m rejecting the very narrow and damaging ideas presented on this thread.

And your solution is. All you have done is complain

Can you point to the complaints above? I don’t see where I have complained. I’ve simply disagreed with you, which is not the same as complaining.

My solution… again… is to raise ALL pay to make the field more attractive. Increasing entrance requirements and evaluating teacher performance can go along with that to justify the higher pay. I have no problem with that.

English teacher, right?

Maybe she can help you with your reading comprehension.

Not sure if anyone can help with your a$$holery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your industry needs to grow up and get with supply and demand

DC pays teachers over 100k within 5-10 years if you are good enough

Sure, but the field has really struggled with figuring out how someone is “good enough.” How do you identify the strong teachers? Is it test scores? How do you address the many variables that affect those? Is it parent reviews? Student feedback? Admin observations? It’s remarkably difficult to quantify “strong teachers.” A lot of teaching is an art. That’s why merely having a certain degree isn’t enough. Can you effectively relay your content knowledge to a child?

Also… DC is also facing shortages. Paying teachers more isn’t enough.

I'm not a teacher but the most effective thing I have seen is 1/3 test scores, 1/3 principal/supervisor Evalution and 1/3 student evaluation.

I agree pay isn't the issue. It's just more of a bad whining look of those in the profession. The salaries are public knowledge, everyone knows what they are before signing up.

I will say the scope/expectations have changed with all the extra paperwork and helicopter parents. That's a legitimate gripe and something you couldn't have predicted.

I will absolutely not accept 1/3 test scores, 1/3 evaluations, 1/3 student evaluations. Test scores: how do you account for general ed classes vs. honors classes? Special education? High FARMS rate schools? I once had to take a failing mark on *MY* test data because a student was expelled before the test and wasn’t there to take it. Why should I be held accountable for that? Evaluations: These are ridiculously subjective. All it takes is for a teacher to upset an administrator, and the score goes down. I once lost a ton of points on an eval because a student didn’t have his book on his desk. Why should I lose pay for that? The other 30 students were doing just fine. Student evaluations: I have had to give plenty of failing grades for plagiarized assignments. What type of evaluation do you think I’m going to get from those students? Some teachers are extremely permissive and therefore popular with students. Students may not learn a thing in that class, but the teacher would get high marks.

Accuse me all you want of a “bad whining look.” I’m not going to play the role of the martyr anymore. This job is challenging and this job is important. Frankly, a functioning society depends on it. I don’t care if it looks like teachers are whining. It’s time to stop being doormats.

Please quit instead of complaining just quit. Why would you stay in a job that makes you so miserable, you are toxic to your colleagues and folks that actually want to be there

When things are wrong, people need to speak up to change them. Staying silent and accepting bad treatment is why teachers are so undervalued and underpaid. This shortage, the whole topic of this thread, is happening because teachers are doing exactly what you said: leave if you are miserable. They are leaving in droves. There are recommendations throughout this thread about how to counteract that. Since teachers’ valid concerns are seen as toxic and complaining, how far do you think we are going to get in solving this teacher shortage?

Except you’re not trying to improve things; you’re just complaining. Worse, you actually seem to be pushing back on proposals that could improve things like teacher pay and respect for the profession. That's what makes you toxic.

Can you point to things I wrote that push back on teacher pay and respect for the profession? I’m very sure I have directly stated what I believe needs to be done to improve pay and respect.

I’ve spoken to the BOE multiple times in support of teachers and students. I support newer teachers and serve as a mentor. You have no idea what I’ve done to support my profession. All you’ve seen is my frustration in an anonymous forum. I’m saying what many others are thinking. Instead of dismissing me, try listening.

You seem to say we shouldn’t assess the performance of teachers. And I’m guessing you‘re the same poster the doesn’t want to pay harder-to-fill positions more than other teachers. You’re not going to improve respect for teachers as long as teachers continue to reject performance assessments. And you’re not going to improve pay unless districts have the flexibility to pay what is necessary to recruit teachers in each area.

You are incorrect. I fully support teacher evaluations. I rejected ONE proposal that put 33% on student surveys, 33% on observations, and 33% on testing. Rejecting ONE proposal does not mean I don’t support assessment of performance. As for pay, I reject pitting teachers against each other by raising some pay and not others. I believe ALL teachers deserve better compensation. Since we are facing a shortage in historically easy-to-fill positions, I don’t see how keeping certain teachers’ pay lower is a viable choice.

You seem to be ignoring the immense amount of variables that go into these decisions. Should we link type of degree to pay, or should we link performance to pay? Somebody with a PhD in Chemistry may be brilliant in their field, but may lack the skills necessary to translate that content knowledge to others. Likewise, your BA-possessing 3rd grade teacher may not be as strong in certain content, but may have the personality and skills to engage students and push them further. Who gets more pay, the one with the content knowledge or the one with the better performance? How is that measured? What about the teacher who works in a school with disadvantaged students and limited resources? Their performance may not look as impressive on paper, but they may actually move students further. What about the general Ed teacher with 25 students with IEPs in addition to 100 other students? Should they get paid less than the SPED teacher with 30 students? Pay scales that differ will cause further animosity because you CAN’T adequately account for the many, many variables. This is not a reasonable solution. The reasonable solution is what I have been saying repeatedly: raise ALL salaries. What I have heard from you is a rather insulting idea that education and liberal arts majors have already hit their worth with the current salary scales. I simply disagree.

I’m not rejecting higher pay or teacher performance assessments. I’m rejecting the very narrow and damaging ideas presented on this thread.

And your solution is. All you have done is complain

Can you point to the complaints above? I don’t see where I have complained. I’ve simply disagreed with you, which is not the same as complaining.

My solution… again… is to raise ALL pay to make the field more attractive. Increasing entrance requirements and evaluating teacher performance can go along with that to justify the higher pay. I have no problem with that.

English teacher, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your industry needs to grow up and get with supply and demand

DC pays teachers over 100k within 5-10 years if you are good enough

Sure, but the field has really struggled with figuring out how someone is “good enough.” How do you identify the strong teachers? Is it test scores? How do you address the many variables that affect those? Is it parent reviews? Student feedback? Admin observations? It’s remarkably difficult to quantify “strong teachers.” A lot of teaching is an art. That’s why merely having a certain degree isn’t enough. Can you effectively relay your content knowledge to a child?

Also… DC is also facing shortages. Paying teachers more isn’t enough.

I'm not a teacher but the most effective thing I have seen is 1/3 test scores, 1/3 principal/supervisor Evalution and 1/3 student evaluation.

I agree pay isn't the issue. It's just more of a bad whining look of those in the profession. The salaries are public knowledge, everyone knows what they are before signing up.

I will say the scope/expectations have changed with all the extra paperwork and helicopter parents. That's a legitimate gripe and something you couldn't have predicted.

I will absolutely not accept 1/3 test scores, 1/3 evaluations, 1/3 student evaluations. Test scores: how do you account for general ed classes vs. honors classes? Special education? High FARMS rate schools? I once had to take a failing mark on *MY* test data because a student was expelled before the test and wasn’t there to take it. Why should I be held accountable for that? Evaluations: These are ridiculously subjective. All it takes is for a teacher to upset an administrator, and the score goes down. I once lost a ton of points on an eval because a student didn’t have his book on his desk. Why should I lose pay for that? The other 30 students were doing just fine. Student evaluations: I have had to give plenty of failing grades for plagiarized assignments. What type of evaluation do you think I’m going to get from those students? Some teachers are extremely permissive and therefore popular with students. Students may not learn a thing in that class, but the teacher would get high marks.

Accuse me all you want of a “bad whining look.” I’m not going to play the role of the martyr anymore. This job is challenging and this job is important. Frankly, a functioning society depends on it. I don’t care if it looks like teachers are whining. It’s time to stop being doormats.

Please quit instead of complaining just quit. Why would you stay in a job that makes you so miserable, you are toxic to your colleagues and folks that actually want to be there

When things are wrong, people need to speak up to change them. Staying silent and accepting bad treatment is why teachers are so undervalued and underpaid. This shortage, the whole topic of this thread, is happening because teachers are doing exactly what you said: leave if you are miserable. They are leaving in droves. There are recommendations throughout this thread about how to counteract that. Since teachers’ valid concerns are seen as toxic and complaining, how far do you think we are going to get in solving this teacher shortage?

Except you’re not trying to improve things; you’re just complaining. Worse, you actually seem to be pushing back on proposals that could improve things like teacher pay and respect for the profession. That's what makes you toxic.

Can you point to things I wrote that push back on teacher pay and respect for the profession? I’m very sure I have directly stated what I believe needs to be done to improve pay and respect.

I’ve spoken to the BOE multiple times in support of teachers and students. I support newer teachers and serve as a mentor. You have no idea what I’ve done to support my profession. All you’ve seen is my frustration in an anonymous forum. I’m saying what many others are thinking. Instead of dismissing me, try listening.

You seem to say we shouldn’t assess the performance of teachers. And I’m guessing you‘re the same poster the doesn’t want to pay harder-to-fill positions more than other teachers. You’re not going to improve respect for teachers as long as teachers continue to reject performance assessments. And you’re not going to improve pay unless districts have the flexibility to pay what is necessary to recruit teachers in each area.

You are incorrect. I fully support teacher evaluations. I rejected ONE proposal that put 33% on student surveys, 33% on observations, and 33% on testing. Rejecting ONE proposal does not mean I don’t support assessment of performance. As for pay, I reject pitting teachers against each other by raising some pay and not others. I believe ALL teachers deserve better compensation. Since we are facing a shortage in historically easy-to-fill positions, I don’t see how keeping certain teachers’ pay lower is a viable choice.

You seem to be ignoring the immense amount of variables that go into these decisions. Should we link type of degree to pay, or should we link performance to pay? Somebody with a PhD in Chemistry may be brilliant in their field, but may lack the skills necessary to translate that content knowledge to others. Likewise, your BA-possessing 3rd grade teacher may not be as strong in certain content, but may have the personality and skills to engage students and push them further. Who gets more pay, the one with the content knowledge or the one with the better performance? How is that measured? What about the teacher who works in a school with disadvantaged students and limited resources? Their performance may not look as impressive on paper, but they may actually move students further. What about the general Ed teacher with 25 students with IEPs in addition to 100 other students? Should they get paid less than the SPED teacher with 30 students? Pay scales that differ will cause further animosity because you CAN’T adequately account for the many, many variables. This is not a reasonable solution. The reasonable solution is what I have been saying repeatedly: raise ALL salaries. What I have heard from you is a rather insulting idea that education and liberal arts majors have already hit their worth with the current salary scales. I simply disagree.

I’m not rejecting higher pay or teacher performance assessments. I’m rejecting the very narrow and damaging ideas presented on this thread.

And your solution is. All you have done is complain

Can you point to the complaints above? I don’t see where I have complained. I’ve simply disagreed with you, which is not the same as complaining.

My solution… again… is to raise ALL pay to make the field more attractive. Increasing entrance requirements and evaluating teacher performance can go along with that to justify the higher pay. I have no problem with that.

English teacher, right?

Yes. Does that somehow have an impact on my argument?

Of course it does! You’re clearly unable to think objectively about compensation because you know, on average, STEM graduates have more lucrative alternative careers than English majors.

[Anonymous]

Money doesn't grow on trees. Pay should be based on demand so English teachers should probably be paid less so stem and sped teachers can be paid more to decrease the opening in those areas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your industry needs to grow up and get with supply and demand

DC pays teachers over 100k within 5-10 years if you are good enough

Sure, but the field has really struggled with figuring out how someone is “good enough.” How do you identify the strong teachers? Is it test scores? How do you address the many variables that affect those? Is it parent reviews? Student feedback? Admin observations? It’s remarkably difficult to quantify “strong teachers.” A lot of teaching is an art. That’s why merely having a certain degree isn’t enough. Can you effectively relay your content knowledge to a child?

Also… DC is also facing shortages. Paying teachers more isn’t enough.

I'm not a teacher but the most effective thing I have seen is 1/3 test scores, 1/3 principal/supervisor Evalution and 1/3 student evaluation.

I agree pay isn't the issue. It's just more of a bad whining look of those in the profession. The salaries are public knowledge, everyone knows what they are before signing up.

I will say the scope/expectations have changed with all the extra paperwork and helicopter parents. That's a legitimate gripe and something you couldn't have predicted.

I will absolutely not accept 1/3 test scores, 1/3 evaluations, 1/3 student evaluations. Test scores: how do you account for general ed classes vs. honors classes? Special education? High FARMS rate schools? I once had to take a failing mark on *MY* test data because a student was expelled before the test and wasn’t there to take it. Why should I be held accountable for that? Evaluations: These are ridiculously subjective. All it takes is for a teacher to upset an administrator, and the score goes down. I once lost a ton of points on an eval because a student didn’t have his book on his desk. Why should I lose pay for that? The other 30 students were doing just fine. Student evaluations: I have had to give plenty of failing grades for plagiarized assignments. What type of evaluation do you think I’m going to get from those students? Some teachers are extremely permissive and therefore popular with students. Students may not learn a thing in that class, but the teacher would get high marks.

Accuse me all you want of a “bad whining look.” I’m not going to play the role of the martyr anymore. This job is challenging and this job is important. Frankly, a functioning society depends on it. I don’t care if it looks like teachers are whining. It’s time to stop being doormats.

Please quit instead of complaining just quit. Why would you stay in a job that makes you so miserable, you are toxic to your colleagues and folks that actually want to be there

When things are wrong, people need to speak up to change them. Staying silent and accepting bad treatment is why teachers are so undervalued and underpaid. This shortage, the whole topic of this thread, is happening because teachers are doing exactly what you said: leave if you are miserable. They are leaving in droves. There are recommendations throughout this thread about how to counteract that. Since teachers’ valid concerns are seen as toxic and complaining, how far do you think we are going to get in solving this teacher shortage?

Except you’re not trying to improve things; you’re just complaining. Worse, you actually seem to be pushing back on proposals that could improve things like teacher pay and respect for the profession. That's what makes you toxic.

Can you point to things I wrote that push back on teacher pay and respect for the profession? I’m very sure I have directly stated what I believe needs to be done to improve pay and respect.

I’ve spoken to the BOE multiple times in support of teachers and students. I support newer teachers and serve as a mentor. You have no idea what I’ve done to support my profession. All you’ve seen is my frustration in an anonymous forum. I’m saying what many others are thinking. Instead of dismissing me, try listening.

You seem to say we shouldn’t assess the performance of teachers. And I’m guessing you‘re the same poster the doesn’t want to pay harder-to-fill positions more than other teachers. You’re not going to improve respect for teachers as long as teachers continue to reject performance assessments. And you’re not going to improve pay unless districts have the flexibility to pay what is necessary to recruit teachers in each area.

You are incorrect. I fully support teacher evaluations. I rejected ONE proposal that put 33% on student surveys, 33% on observations, and 33% on testing. Rejecting ONE proposal does not mean I don’t support assessment of performance. As for pay, I reject pitting teachers against each other by raising some pay and not others. I believe ALL teachers deserve better compensation. Since we are facing a shortage in historically easy-to-fill positions, I don’t see how keeping certain teachers’ pay lower is a viable choice.

You seem to be ignoring the immense amount of variables that go into these decisions. Should we link type of degree to pay, or should we link performance to pay? Somebody with a PhD in Chemistry may be brilliant in their field, but may lack the skills necessary to translate that content knowledge to others. Likewise, your BA-possessing 3rd grade teacher may not be as strong in certain content, but may have the personality and skills to engage students and push them further. Who gets more pay, the one with the content knowledge or the one with the better performance? How is that measured? What about the teacher who works in a school with disadvantaged students and limited resources? Their performance may not look as impressive on paper, but they may actually move students further. What about the general Ed teacher with 25 students with IEPs in addition to 100 other students? Should they get paid less than the SPED teacher with 30 students? Pay scales that differ will cause further animosity because you CAN’T adequately account for the many, many variables. This is not a reasonable solution. The reasonable solution is what I have been saying repeatedly: raise ALL salaries. What I have heard from you is a rather insulting idea that education and liberal arts majors have already hit their worth with the current salary scales. I simply disagree.

I’m not rejecting higher pay or teacher performance assessments. I’m rejecting the very narrow and damaging ideas presented on this thread.

And your solution is. All you have done is complain

Can you point to the complaints above? I don’t see where I have complained. I’ve simply disagreed with you, which is not the same as complaining.

My solution… again… is to raise ALL pay to make the field more attractive. Increasing entrance requirements and evaluating teacher performance can go along with that to justify the higher pay. I have no problem with that.

English teacher, right?

Yes. Does that somehow have an impact on my argument?

Of course it does! You’re clearly unable to think objectively about compensation because you know, on average, STEM graduates have more lucrative alternative careers than English majors.

I’m beginning to think the other poster is correct regarding your reading comprehension. Multiple posters have stated that the shortage is affecting all fields. This is no longer a STEM / SPED issue. I provided specific examples, including the fact my district is down 10%, and it isn’t exclusively within STEM or SPED. I have also provided several valid, reasoned examples why a tiered pay system won’t work. Pay needs to universally increase.

Your solution to the teacher shortage appears to be “keep most teachers at their current pay because they aren’t valuable.” It is that mindset, among other insulting ones, that is driving this shortage. Contrary to your deluded belief about liberal arts majors, we are highly employable. This mass exodus to other fields is showing that.

I’m beginning to believe you are simply a troll trying to get a rise out of me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Generous pensions.

Wouldn’t that reduce the teacher shortage?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your industry needs to grow up and get with supply and demand

DC pays teachers over 100k within 5-10 years if you are good enough

Sure, but the field has really struggled with figuring out how someone is “good enough.” How do you identify the strong teachers? Is it test scores? How do you address the many variables that affect those? Is it parent reviews? Student feedback? Admin observations? It’s remarkably difficult to quantify “strong teachers.” A lot of teaching is an art. That’s why merely having a certain degree isn’t enough. Can you effectively relay your content knowledge to a child?

Also… DC is also facing shortages. Paying teachers more isn’t enough.

I'm not a teacher but the most effective thing I have seen is 1/3 test scores, 1/3 principal/supervisor Evalution and 1/3 student evaluation.

I agree pay isn't the issue. It's just more of a bad whining look of those in the profession. The salaries are public knowledge, everyone knows what they are before signing up.

I will say the scope/expectations have changed with all the extra paperwork and helicopter parents. That's a legitimate gripe and something you couldn't have predicted.

I will absolutely not accept 1/3 test scores, 1/3 evaluations, 1/3 student evaluations. Test scores: how do you account for general ed classes vs. honors classes? Special education? High FARMS rate schools? I once had to take a failing mark on *MY* test data because a student was expelled before the test and wasn’t there to take it. Why should I be held accountable for that? Evaluations: These are ridiculously subjective. All it takes is for a teacher to upset an administrator, and the score goes down. I once lost a ton of points on an eval because a student didn’t have his book on his desk. Why should I lose pay for that? The other 30 students were doing just fine. Student evaluations: I have had to give plenty of failing grades for plagiarized assignments. What type of evaluation do you think I’m going to get from those students? Some teachers are extremely permissive and therefore popular with students. Students may not learn a thing in that class, but the teacher would get high marks.

Accuse me all you want of a “bad whining look.” I’m not going to play the role of the martyr anymore. This job is challenging and this job is important. Frankly, a functioning society depends on it. I don’t care if it looks like teachers are whining. It’s time to stop being doormats.

Please quit instead of complaining just quit. Why would you stay in a job that makes you so miserable, you are toxic to your colleagues and folks that actually want to be there

When things are wrong, people need to speak up to change them. Staying silent and accepting bad treatment is why teachers are so undervalued and underpaid. This shortage, the whole topic of this thread, is happening because teachers are doing exactly what you said: leave if you are miserable. They are leaving in droves. There are recommendations throughout this thread about how to counteract that. Since teachers’ valid concerns are seen as toxic and complaining, how far do you think we are going to get in solving this teacher shortage?

Except you’re not trying to improve things; you’re just complaining. Worse, you actually seem to be pushing back on proposals that could improve things like teacher pay and respect for the profession. That's what makes you toxic.

Can you point to things I wrote that push back on teacher pay and respect for the profession? I’m very sure I have directly stated what I believe needs to be done to improve pay and respect.

I’ve spoken to the BOE multiple times in support of teachers and students. I support newer teachers and serve as a mentor. You have no idea what I’ve done to support my profession. All you’ve seen is my frustration in an anonymous forum. I’m saying what many others are thinking. Instead of dismissing me, try listening.

You seem to say we shouldn’t assess the performance of teachers. And I’m guessing you‘re the same poster the doesn’t want to pay harder-to-fill positions more than other teachers. You’re not going to improve respect for teachers as long as teachers continue to reject performance assessments. And you’re not going to improve pay unless districts have the flexibility to pay what is necessary to recruit teachers in each area.

You are incorrect. I fully support teacher evaluations. I rejected ONE proposal that put 33% on student surveys, 33% on observations, and 33% on testing. Rejecting ONE proposal does not mean I don’t support assessment of performance. As for pay, I reject pitting teachers against each other by raising some pay and not others. I believe ALL teachers deserve better compensation. Since we are facing a shortage in historically easy-to-fill positions, I don’t see how keeping certain teachers’ pay lower is a viable choice.

You seem to be ignoring the immense amount of variables that go into these decisions. Should we link type of degree to pay, or should we link performance to pay? Somebody with a PhD in Chemistry may be brilliant in their field, but may lack the skills necessary to translate that content knowledge to others. Likewise, your BA-possessing 3rd grade teacher may not be as strong in certain content, but may have the personality and skills to engage students and push them further. Who gets more pay, the one with the content knowledge or the one with the better performance? How is that measured? What about the teacher who works in a school with disadvantaged students and limited resources? Their performance may not look as impressive on paper, but they may actually move students further. What about the general Ed teacher with 25 students with IEPs in addition to 100 other students? Should they get paid less than the SPED teacher with 30 students? Pay scales that differ will cause further animosity because you CAN’T adequately account for the many, many variables. This is not a reasonable solution. The reasonable solution is what I have been saying repeatedly: raise ALL salaries. What I have heard from you is a rather insulting idea that education and liberal arts majors have already hit their worth with the current salary scales. I simply disagree.

I’m not rejecting higher pay or teacher performance assessments. I’m rejecting the very narrow and damaging ideas presented on this thread.

And your solution is. All you have done is complain

Can you point to the complaints above? I don’t see where I have complained. I’ve simply disagreed with you, which is not the same as complaining.

My solution… again… is to raise ALL pay to make the field more attractive. Increasing entrance requirements and evaluating teacher performance can go along with that to justify the higher pay. I have no problem with that.

English teacher, right?

Yes. Does that somehow have an impact on my argument?

Of course it does! You’re clearly unable to think objectively about compensation because you know, on average, STEM graduates have more lucrative alternative careers than English majors.

I’m beginning to think the other poster is correct regarding your reading comprehension. Multiple posters have stated that the shortage is affecting all fields. This is no longer a STEM / SPED issue. I provided specific examples, including the fact my district is down 10%, and it isn’t exclusively within STEM or SPED. I have also provided several valid, reasoned examples why a tiered pay system won’t work. Pay needs to universally increase.

Your solution to the teacher shortage appears to be “keep most teachers at their current pay because they aren’t valuable.” It is that mindset, among other insulting ones, that is driving this shortage. Contrary to your deluded belief about liberal arts majors, we are highly employable. This mass exodus to other fields is showing that.

I’m beginning to believe you are simply a troll trying to get a rise out of me.

Your posts have been carefully worded to be technically accurate, but misleading. You’re right that the shortage isn’t *exclusively* STEM and SPED, but those are where there have been most severe shortages over a sustained period of time. And while liberal arts majors may be highly employable, the pay gap between teachers and graduates with STEM degrees is greater than the pay gap between teachers and graduates with liberal arts degrees. I’m sure you know that. You’ve worded your posts to avoid directly refuting those facts. But they obviously don’t fit into the narrative that would most benefit you.

Further, even if it is true that teacher pay needs to go up across the board, that doesn't mean it only needs to go up by the same amount across the board. Such a move would almost certainly leave SPED positions hard to fill, as there would remain an incentive to teach in a different field for the same pay.

You also have not explained why teaching is uniquely unable to accommodate differentiated pay scales for different specialty areas. You seem to merely claim that it would hurt the feelings of teachers with liberal arts degrees. That may be true, but that's just as true outside of teaching, where STEM grads get paid more than liberal arts grads.