Why is there a teacher shortage?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your industry needs to grow up and get with supply and demand

DC pays teachers over 100k within 5-10 years if you are good enough

Sure, but the field has really struggled with figuring out how someone is “good enough.” How do you identify the strong teachers? Is it test scores? How do you address the many variables that affect those? Is it parent reviews? Student feedback? Admin observations? It’s remarkably difficult to quantify “strong teachers.” A lot of teaching is an art. That’s why merely having a certain degree isn’t enough. Can you effectively relay your content knowledge to a child?

Also… DC is also facing shortages. Paying teachers more isn’t enough.

I'm not a teacher but the most effective thing I have seen is 1/3 test scores, 1/3 principal/supervisor Evalution and 1/3 student evaluation.

I agree pay isn't the issue. It's just more of a bad whining look of those in the profession. The salaries are public knowledge, everyone knows what they are before signing up.

I will say the scope/expectations have changed with all the extra paperwork and helicopter parents. That's a legitimate gripe and something you couldn't have predicted.

I will absolutely not accept 1/3 test scores, 1/3 evaluations, 1/3 student evaluations. Test scores: how do you account for general ed classes vs. honors classes? Special education? High FARMS rate schools? I once had to take a failing mark on *MY* test data because a student was expelled before the test and wasn’t there to take it. Why should I be held accountable for that? Evaluations: These are ridiculously subjective. All it takes is for a teacher to upset an administrator, and the score goes down. I once lost a ton of points on an eval because a student didn’t have his book on his desk. Why should I lose pay for that? The other 30 students were doing just fine. Student evaluations: I have had to give plenty of failing grades for plagiarized assignments. What type of evaluation do you think I’m going to get from those students? Some teachers are extremely permissive and therefore popular with students. Students may not learn a thing in that class, but the teacher would get high marks.

Accuse me all you want of a “bad whining look.” I’m not going to play the role of the martyr anymore. This job is challenging and this job is important. Frankly, a functioning society depends on it. I don’t care if it looks like teachers are whining. It’s time to stop being doormats.

Please quit instead of complaining just quit. Why would you stay in a job that makes you so miserable, you are toxic to your colleagues and folks that actually want to be there

Yup and that's what happening. People are quitting. The pay isn't competitive, parents are terrible, kids are entitled and difficult to discipline, administration micromanages staff and there's no planning time. You didn't need a 30+ page thread to explain that

The better question is how to entice more people to want to become teachers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your industry needs to grow up and get with supply and demand

DC pays teachers over 100k within 5-10 years if you are good enough

Sure, but the field has really struggled with figuring out how someone is “good enough.” How do you identify the strong teachers? Is it test scores? How do you address the many variables that affect those? Is it parent reviews? Student feedback? Admin observations? It’s remarkably difficult to quantify “strong teachers.” A lot of teaching is an art. That’s why merely having a certain degree isn’t enough. Can you effectively relay your content knowledge to a child?

Also… DC is also facing shortages. Paying teachers more isn’t enough.

I'm not a teacher but the most effective thing I have seen is 1/3 test scores, 1/3 principal/supervisor Evalution and 1/3 student evaluation.

I agree pay isn't the issue. It's just more of a bad whining look of those in the profession. The salaries are public knowledge, everyone knows what they are before signing up.

I will say the scope/expectations have changed with all the extra paperwork and helicopter parents. That's a legitimate gripe and something you couldn't have predicted.

I will absolutely not accept 1/3 test scores, 1/3 evaluations, 1/3 student evaluations. Test scores: how do you account for general ed classes vs. honors classes? Special education? High FARMS rate schools? I once had to take a failing mark on *MY* test data because a student was expelled before the test and wasn’t there to take it. Why should I be held accountable for that? Evaluations: These are ridiculously subjective. All it takes is for a teacher to upset an administrator, and the score goes down. I once lost a ton of points on an eval because a student didn’t have his book on his desk. Why should I lose pay for that? The other 30 students were doing just fine. Student evaluations: I have had to give plenty of failing grades for plagiarized assignments. What type of evaluation do you think I’m going to get from those students? Some teachers are extremely permissive and therefore popular with students. Students may not learn a thing in that class, but the teacher would get high marks.

Accuse me all you want of a “bad whining look.” I’m not going to play the role of the martyr anymore. This job is challenging and this job is important. Frankly, a functioning society depends on it. I don’t care if it looks like teachers are whining. It’s time to stop being doormats.

Please quit instead of complaining just quit. Why would you stay in a job that makes you so miserable, you are toxic to your colleagues and folks that actually want to be there

+1

When I quit at the end of the year know that it is because so many of my colleagues did this and now I am making up sub plans for the other classes in my grade level who are starting out with long term subs.

Amazon at least knows that they are going to run out of workers in 2024 because they treat them so poorly. Your local
School system and you have no clue it is going to happen to them as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your industry needs to grow up and get with supply and demand

DC pays teachers over 100k within 5-10 years if you are good enough

Sure, but the field has really struggled with figuring out how someone is “good enough.” How do you identify the strong teachers? Is it test scores? How do you address the many variables that affect those? Is it parent reviews? Student feedback? Admin observations? It’s remarkably difficult to quantify “strong teachers.” A lot of teaching is an art. That’s why merely having a certain degree isn’t enough. Can you effectively relay your content knowledge to a child?

Also… DC is also facing shortages. Paying teachers more isn’t enough.

I'm not a teacher but the most effective thing I have seen is 1/3 test scores, 1/3 principal/supervisor Evalution and 1/3 student evaluation.

I agree pay isn't the issue. It's just more of a bad whining look of those in the profession. The salaries are public knowledge, everyone knows what they are before signing up.

I will say the scope/expectations have changed with all the extra paperwork and helicopter parents. That's a legitimate gripe and something you couldn't have predicted.

I will absolutely not accept 1/3 test scores, 1/3 evaluations, 1/3 student evaluations. Test scores: how do you account for general ed classes vs. honors classes? Special education? High FARMS rate schools? I once had to take a failing mark on *MY* test data because a student was expelled before the test and wasn’t there to take it. Why should I be held accountable for that? Evaluations: These are ridiculously subjective. All it takes is for a teacher to upset an administrator, and the score goes down. I once lost a ton of points on an eval because a student didn’t have his book on his desk. Why should I lose pay for that? The other 30 students were doing just fine. Student evaluations: I have had to give plenty of failing grades for plagiarized assignments. What type of evaluation do you think I’m going to get from those students? Some teachers are extremely permissive and therefore popular with students. Students may not learn a thing in that class, but the teacher would get high marks.

Accuse me all you want of a “bad whining look.” I’m not going to play the role of the martyr anymore. This job is challenging and this job is important. Frankly, a functioning society depends on it. I don’t care if it looks like teachers are whining. It’s time to stop being doormats.

Please quit instead of complaining just quit. Why would you stay in a job that makes you so miserable, you are toxic to your colleagues and folks that actually want to be there

+1

When I quit at the end of the year know that it is because so many of my colleagues did this and now I am making up sub plans for the other classes in my grade level who are starting out with long term subs.

Amazon at least knows that they are going to run out of workers in 2024 because they treat them so poorly. Your local
School system and you have no clue it is going to happen to them as well.

Warnings are everywhere. The news has been filled with sorry after story about school shortages. My local district is down 1/10th of their teaching staff. You’re correct. The ones remaining will be further burned out after covering for all of those vacant positions this year in addition to doing their own jobs.

Instead of telling the vocal teachers to quit, listen to what they are saying. This will get much worse as teachers continue to leave. I lost another in my department last week and we still haven’t figured out how to cover those classes. Still, nobody is upset at her for leaving. We all understand why she did it. There’s a shared grief among teachers right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your industry needs to grow up and get with supply and demand

DC pays teachers over 100k within 5-10 years if you are good enough

Sure, but the field has really struggled with figuring out how someone is “good enough.” How do you identify the strong teachers? Is it test scores? How do you address the many variables that affect those? Is it parent reviews? Student feedback? Admin observations? It’s remarkably difficult to quantify “strong teachers.” A lot of teaching is an art. That’s why merely having a certain degree isn’t enough. Can you effectively relay your content knowledge to a child?

Also… DC is also facing shortages. Paying teachers more isn’t enough.

I'm not a teacher but the most effective thing I have seen is 1/3 test scores, 1/3 principal/supervisor Evalution and 1/3 student evaluation.

I agree pay isn't the issue. It's just more of a bad whining look of those in the profession. The salaries are public knowledge, everyone knows what they are before signing up.

I will say the scope/expectations have changed with all the extra paperwork and helicopter parents. That's a legitimate gripe and something you couldn't have predicted.

I will absolutely not accept 1/3 test scores, 1/3 evaluations, 1/3 student evaluations. Test scores: how do you account for general ed classes vs. honors classes? Special education? High FARMS rate schools? I once had to take a failing mark on *MY* test data because a student was expelled before the test and wasn’t there to take it. Why should I be held accountable for that? Evaluations: These are ridiculously subjective. All it takes is for a teacher to upset an administrator, and the score goes down. I once lost a ton of points on an eval because a student didn’t have his book on his desk. Why should I lose pay for that? The other 30 students were doing just fine. Student evaluations: I have had to give plenty of failing grades for plagiarized assignments. What type of evaluation do you think I’m going to get from those students? Some teachers are extremely permissive and therefore popular with students. Students may not learn a thing in that class, but the teacher would get high marks.

Accuse me all you want of a “bad whining look.” I’m not going to play the role of the martyr anymore. This job is challenging and this job is important. Frankly, a functioning society depends on it. I don’t care if it looks like teachers are whining. It’s time to stop being doormats.

Please quit instead of complaining just quit. Why would you stay in a job that makes you so miserable, you are toxic to your colleagues and folks that actually want to be there

When things are wrong, people need to speak up to change them. Staying silent and accepting bad treatment is why teachers are so undervalued and underpaid. This shortage, the whole topic of this thread, is happening because teachers are doing exactly what you said: leave if you are miserable. They are leaving in droves. There are recommendations throughout this thread about how to counteract that. Since teachers’ valid concerns are seen as toxic and complaining, how far do you think we are going to get in solving this teacher shortage?

Except you’re not trying to improve things; you’re just complaining. Worse, you actually seem to be pushing back on proposals that could improve things like teacher pay and respect for the profession. That's what makes you toxic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your industry needs to grow up and get with supply and demand

DC pays teachers over 100k within 5-10 years if you are good enough

Sure, but the field has really struggled with figuring out how someone is “good enough.” How do you identify the strong teachers? Is it test scores? How do you address the many variables that affect those? Is it parent reviews? Student feedback? Admin observations? It’s remarkably difficult to quantify “strong teachers.” A lot of teaching is an art. That’s why merely having a certain degree isn’t enough. Can you effectively relay your content knowledge to a child?

Also… DC is also facing shortages. Paying teachers more isn’t enough.

I'm not a teacher but the most effective thing I have seen is 1/3 test scores, 1/3 principal/supervisor Evalution and 1/3 student evaluation.

I agree pay isn't the issue. It's just more of a bad whining look of those in the profession. The salaries are public knowledge, everyone knows what they are before signing up.

I will say the scope/expectations have changed with all the extra paperwork and helicopter parents. That's a legitimate gripe and something you couldn't have predicted.

I will absolutely not accept 1/3 test scores, 1/3 evaluations, 1/3 student evaluations. Test scores: how do you account for general ed classes vs. honors classes? Special education? High FARMS rate schools? I once had to take a failing mark on *MY* test data because a student was expelled before the test and wasn’t there to take it. Why should I be held accountable for that? Evaluations: These are ridiculously subjective. All it takes is for a teacher to upset an administrator, and the score goes down. I once lost a ton of points on an eval because a student didn’t have his book on his desk. Why should I lose pay for that? The other 30 students were doing just fine. Student evaluations: I have had to give plenty of failing grades for plagiarized assignments. What type of evaluation do you think I’m going to get from those students? Some teachers are extremely permissive and therefore popular with students. Students may not learn a thing in that class, but the teacher would get high marks.

Accuse me all you want of a “bad whining look.” I’m not going to play the role of the martyr anymore. This job is challenging and this job is important. Frankly, a functioning society depends on it. I don’t care if it looks like teachers are whining. It’s time to stop being doormats.

Please quit instead of complaining just quit. Why would you stay in a job that makes you so miserable, you are toxic to your colleagues and folks that actually want to be there

+1

When I quit at the end of the year know that it is because so many of my colleagues did this and now I am making up sub plans for the other classes in my grade level who are starting out with long term subs.

Amazon at least knows that they are going to run out of workers in 2024 because they treat them so poorly. Your local
School system and you have no clue it is going to happen to them as well.

Warnings are everywhere. The news has been filled with sorry after story about school shortages. My local district is down 1/10th of their teaching staff. You’re correct. The ones remaining will be further burned out after covering for all of those vacant positions this year in addition to doing their own jobs.

Instead of telling the vocal teachers to quit, listen to what they are saying. This will get much worse as teachers continue to leave. I lost another in my department last week and we still haven’t figured out how to cover those classes. Still, nobody is upset at her for leaving. We all understand why she did it. There’s a shared grief among teachers right now.

Unfortunately the unions are driving teaching into the ground. Their focus has been on protecting the bad teachers rather than recruiting/retaining good teachers. If the unions don’t get on board with quality/performance measures, then respect for teachers will continue to fall, as skilled teachers switch careers, leaving behind the dudes.

[Anonymous]

Base pay for teachers should be $70k year 1. Stipends for things like hard to fill positions (esol, sped, math), and for working in low income schools. Bonuses for 5 year retentions.

I used to teach in one of “those” schools and it is easily twice as hard as teaching at the UMC school. Compensate the teachers who choose that. A Fairfax county teacher should be able to make $100k teaching sped at Poe middle school 10 years into their career. If we want people to come, they have to be paid. Other careers pay.

I honestly have no idea where the money would come from. I know the budget is always tight. But we have to find money somewhere or people are going to continue to leave because the economy says we value editing online content more than teaching kids to read and write.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your industry needs to grow up and get with supply and demand

DC pays teachers over 100k within 5-10 years if you are good enough

Sure, but the field has really struggled with figuring out how someone is “good enough.” How do you identify the strong teachers? Is it test scores? How do you address the many variables that affect those? Is it parent reviews? Student feedback? Admin observations? It’s remarkably difficult to quantify “strong teachers.” A lot of teaching is an art. That’s why merely having a certain degree isn’t enough. Can you effectively relay your content knowledge to a child?

Also… DC is also facing shortages. Paying teachers more isn’t enough.

I'm not a teacher but the most effective thing I have seen is 1/3 test scores, 1/3 principal/supervisor Evalution and 1/3 student evaluation.

I agree pay isn't the issue. It's just more of a bad whining look of those in the profession. The salaries are public knowledge, everyone knows what they are before signing up.

I will say the scope/expectations have changed with all the extra paperwork and helicopter parents. That's a legitimate gripe and something you couldn't have predicted.

I will absolutely not accept 1/3 test scores, 1/3 evaluations, 1/3 student evaluations. Test scores: how do you account for general ed classes vs. honors classes? Special education? High FARMS rate schools? I once had to take a failing mark on *MY* test data because a student was expelled before the test and wasn’t there to take it. Why should I be held accountable for that? Evaluations: These are ridiculously subjective. All it takes is for a teacher to upset an administrator, and the score goes down. I once lost a ton of points on an eval because a student didn’t have his book on his desk. Why should I lose pay for that? The other 30 students were doing just fine. Student evaluations: I have had to give plenty of failing grades for plagiarized assignments. What type of evaluation do you think I’m going to get from those students? Some teachers are extremely permissive and therefore popular with students. Students may not learn a thing in that class, but the teacher would get high marks.

Accuse me all you want of a “bad whining look.” I’m not going to play the role of the martyr anymore. This job is challenging and this job is important. Frankly, a functioning society depends on it. I don’t care if it looks like teachers are whining. It’s time to stop being doormats.

Please quit instead of complaining just quit. Why would you stay in a job that makes you so miserable, you are toxic to your colleagues and folks that actually want to be there

When things are wrong, people need to speak up to change them. Staying silent and accepting bad treatment is why teachers are so undervalued and underpaid. This shortage, the whole topic of this thread, is happening because teachers are doing exactly what you said: leave if you are miserable. They are leaving in droves. There are recommendations throughout this thread about how to counteract that. Since teachers’ valid concerns are seen as toxic and complaining, how far do you think we are going to get in solving this teacher shortage?

Except you’re not trying to improve things; you’re just complaining. Worse, you actually seem to be pushing back on proposals that could improve things like teacher pay and respect for the profession. That's what makes you toxic.

Can you point to things I wrote that push back on teacher pay and respect for the profession? I’m very sure I have directly stated what I believe needs to be done to improve pay and respect.

I’ve spoken to the BOE multiple times in support of teachers and students. I support newer teachers and serve as a mentor. You have no idea what I’ve done to support my profession. All you’ve seen is my frustration in an anonymous forum. I’m saying what many others are thinking. Instead of dismissing me, try listening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Base pay for teachers should be $70k year 1. Stipends for things like hard to fill positions (esol, sped, math), and for working in low income schools. Bonuses for 5 year retentions.

I used to teach in one of “those” schools and it is easily twice as hard as teaching at the UMC school. Compensate the teachers who choose that. A Fairfax county teacher should be able to make $100k teaching sped at Poe middle school 10 years into their career. If we want people to come, they have to be paid. Other careers pay.

I honestly have no idea where the money would come from. I know the budget is always tight. But we have to find money somewhere or people are going to continue to leave because the economy says we value editing online content more than teaching kids to read and write.

For starters, IDEA should be fully funded at the federal level. That was how it was sold when the law passed. SPED in my district is a huge part of the budget and most of that is funded locally. Obviously the students requiring services are legally entitled to them and should receive them but the brunt of funding those services should not fall mostly to the local districts. Free up that money and you could pay all teachers considerably more, which would also increase the number of people willing to enter the field or stay in it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your industry needs to grow up and get with supply and demand

DC pays teachers over 100k within 5-10 years if you are good enough

Sure, but the field has really struggled with figuring out how someone is “good enough.” How do you identify the strong teachers? Is it test scores? How do you address the many variables that affect those? Is it parent reviews? Student feedback? Admin observations? It’s remarkably difficult to quantify “strong teachers.” A lot of teaching is an art. That’s why merely having a certain degree isn’t enough. Can you effectively relay your content knowledge to a child?

Also… DC is also facing shortages. Paying teachers more isn’t enough.

I'm not a teacher but the most effective thing I have seen is 1/3 test scores, 1/3 principal/supervisor Evalution and 1/3 student evaluation.

I agree pay isn't the issue. It's just more of a bad whining look of those in the profession. The salaries are public knowledge, everyone knows what they are before signing up.

I will say the scope/expectations have changed with all the extra paperwork and helicopter parents. That's a legitimate gripe and something you couldn't have predicted.

I will absolutely not accept 1/3 test scores, 1/3 evaluations, 1/3 student evaluations. Test scores: how do you account for general ed classes vs. honors classes? Special education? High FARMS rate schools? I once had to take a failing mark on *MY* test data because a student was expelled before the test and wasn’t there to take it. Why should I be held accountable for that? Evaluations: These are ridiculously subjective. All it takes is for a teacher to upset an administrator, and the score goes down. I once lost a ton of points on an eval because a student didn’t have his book on his desk. Why should I lose pay for that? The other 30 students were doing just fine. Student evaluations: I have had to give plenty of failing grades for plagiarized assignments. What type of evaluation do you think I’m going to get from those students? Some teachers are extremely permissive and therefore popular with students. Students may not learn a thing in that class, but the teacher would get high marks.

Accuse me all you want of a “bad whining look.” I’m not going to play the role of the martyr anymore. This job is challenging and this job is important. Frankly, a functioning society depends on it. I don’t care if it looks like teachers are whining. It’s time to stop being doormats.

Please quit instead of complaining just quit. Why would you stay in a job that makes you so miserable, you are toxic to your colleagues and folks that actually want to be there

When things are wrong, people need to speak up to change them. Staying silent and accepting bad treatment is why teachers are so undervalued and underpaid. This shortage, the whole topic of this thread, is happening because teachers are doing exactly what you said: leave if you are miserable. They are leaving in droves. There are recommendations throughout this thread about how to counteract that. Since teachers’ valid concerns are seen as toxic and complaining, how far do you think we are going to get in solving this teacher shortage?

Except you’re not trying to improve things; you’re just complaining. Worse, you actually seem to be pushing back on proposals that could improve things like teacher pay and respect for the profession. That's what makes you toxic.

Can you point to things I wrote that push back on teacher pay and respect for the profession? I’m very sure I have directly stated what I believe needs to be done to improve pay and respect.

I’ve spoken to the BOE multiple times in support of teachers and students. I support newer teachers and serve as a mentor. You have no idea what I’ve done to support my profession. All you’ve seen is my frustration in an anonymous forum. I’m saying what many others are thinking. Instead of dismissing me, try listening.

You seem to say we shouldn’t assess the performance of teachers. And I’m guessing you‘re the same poster the doesn’t want to pay harder-to-fill positions more than other teachers. You’re not going to improve respect for teachers as long as teachers continue to reject performance assessments. And you’re not going to improve pay unless districts have the flexibility to pay what is necessary to recruit teachers in each area.

[Anonymous]

FCPS has a $90 million surplus. The school board is voting on Thursday on how to spend it. Guess what the highest priority is?

Adding bathrooms to football stadiums. Yup.

[Anonymous]

Sure, but the field has really struggled with figuring out how someone is “good enough.” How do you identify the strong teachers? Is it test scores? How do you address the many variables that affect those? Is it parent reviews? Student feedback? Admin observations? It’s remarkably difficult to quantify “strong teachers.” A lot of teaching is an art. That’s why merely having a certain degree isn’t enough. Can you effectively relay your content knowledge to a child?

This. If you increase pay only based on student test scores, then no one will go into special education, ESL, or Title I schools.

The biggest sign that there is a shortage IMO is not the STEM or special ed openings--it's the fact that so many ES classroom positions are going unfilled compared to previous years. That's ostensibly the easiest position to fill, and those teachers are no longer abundant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your industry needs to grow up and get with supply and demand

DC pays teachers over 100k within 5-10 years if you are good enough

Sure, but the field has really struggled with figuring out how someone is “good enough.” How do you identify the strong teachers? Is it test scores? How do you address the many variables that affect those? Is it parent reviews? Student feedback? Admin observations? It’s remarkably difficult to quantify “strong teachers.” A lot of teaching is an art. That’s why merely having a certain degree isn’t enough. Can you effectively relay your content knowledge to a child?

Also… DC is also facing shortages. Paying teachers more isn’t enough.

I'm not a teacher but the most effective thing I have seen is 1/3 test scores, 1/3 principal/supervisor Evalution and 1/3 student evaluation.

I agree pay isn't the issue. It's just more of a bad whining look of those in the profession. The salaries are public knowledge, everyone knows what they are before signing up.

I will say the scope/expectations have changed with all the extra paperwork and helicopter parents. That's a legitimate gripe and something you couldn't have predicted.

I will absolutely not accept 1/3 test scores, 1/3 evaluations, 1/3 student evaluations. Test scores: how do you account for general ed classes vs. honors classes? Special education? High FARMS rate schools? I once had to take a failing mark on *MY* test data because a student was expelled before the test and wasn’t there to take it. Why should I be held accountable for that? Evaluations: These are ridiculously subjective. All it takes is for a teacher to upset an administrator, and the score goes down. I once lost a ton of points on an eval because a student didn’t have his book on his desk. Why should I lose pay for that? The other 30 students were doing just fine. Student evaluations: I have had to give plenty of failing grades for plagiarized assignments. What type of evaluation do you think I’m going to get from those students? Some teachers are extremely permissive and therefore popular with students. Students may not learn a thing in that class, but the teacher would get high marks.

Accuse me all you want of a “bad whining look.” I’m not going to play the role of the martyr anymore. This job is challenging and this job is important. Frankly, a functioning society depends on it. I don’t care if it looks like teachers are whining. It’s time to stop being doormats.

Please quit instead of complaining just quit. Why would you stay in a job that makes you so miserable, you are toxic to your colleagues and folks that actually want to be there

When things are wrong, people need to speak up to change them. Staying silent and accepting bad treatment is why teachers are so undervalued and underpaid. This shortage, the whole topic of this thread, is happening because teachers are doing exactly what you said: leave if you are miserable. They are leaving in droves. There are recommendations throughout this thread about how to counteract that. Since teachers’ valid concerns are seen as toxic and complaining, how far do you think we are going to get in solving this teacher shortage?

Except you’re not trying to improve things; you’re just complaining. Worse, you actually seem to be pushing back on proposals that could improve things like teacher pay and respect for the profession. That's what makes you toxic.

Can you point to things I wrote that push back on teacher pay and respect for the profession? I’m very sure I have directly stated what I believe needs to be done to improve pay and respect.

I’ve spoken to the BOE multiple times in support of teachers and students. I support newer teachers and serve as a mentor. You have no idea what I’ve done to support my profession. All you’ve seen is my frustration in an anonymous forum. I’m saying what many others are thinking. Instead of dismissing me, try listening.

You seem to say we shouldn’t assess the performance of teachers. And I’m guessing you‘re the same poster the doesn’t want to pay harder-to-fill positions more than other teachers. You’re not going to improve respect for teachers as long as teachers continue to reject performance assessments. And you’re not going to improve pay unless districts have the flexibility to pay what is necessary to recruit teachers in each area.

You are incorrect. I fully support teacher evaluations. I rejected ONE proposal that put 33% on student surveys, 33% on observations, and 33% on testing. Rejecting ONE proposal does not mean I don’t support assessment of performance. As for pay, I reject pitting teachers against each other by raising some pay and not others. I believe ALL teachers deserve better compensation. Since we are facing a shortage in historically easy-to-fill positions, I don’t see how keeping certain teachers’ pay lower is a viable choice.

You seem to be ignoring the immense amount of variables that go into these decisions. Should we link type of degree to pay, or should we link performance to pay? Somebody with a PhD in Chemistry may be brilliant in their field, but may lack the skills necessary to translate that content knowledge to others. Likewise, your BA-possessing 3rd grade teacher may not be as strong in certain content, but may have the personality and skills to engage students and push them further. Who gets more pay, the one with the content knowledge or the one with the better performance? How is that measured? What about the teacher who works in a school with disadvantaged students and limited resources? Their performance may not look as impressive on paper, but they may actually move students further. What about the general Ed teacher with 25 students with IEPs in addition to 100 other students? Should they get paid less than the SPED teacher with 30 students? Pay scales that differ will cause further animosity because you CAN’T adequately account for the many, many variables. This is not a reasonable solution. The reasonable solution is what I have been saying repeatedly: raise ALL salaries. What I have heard from you is a rather insulting idea that education and liberal arts majors have already hit their worth with the current salary scales. I simply disagree.

I’m not rejecting higher pay or teacher performance assessments. I’m rejecting the very narrow and damaging ideas presented on this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Sure, but the field has really struggled with figuring out how someone is “good enough.” How do you identify the strong teachers? Is it test scores? How do you address the many variables that affect those? Is it parent reviews? Student feedback? Admin observations? It’s remarkably difficult to quantify “strong teachers.” A lot of teaching is an art. That’s why merely having a certain degree isn’t enough. Can you effectively relay your content knowledge to a child?

This. If you increase pay only based on student test scores, then no one will go into special education, ESL, or Title I schools.

The biggest sign that there is a shortage IMO is not the STEM or special ed openings--it's the fact that so many ES classroom positions are going unfilled compared to previous years. That's ostensibly the easiest position to fill, and those teachers are no longer abundant.

A shrinking percentage of high school graduates are entering teacher prep programs at universities and an even smaller percentage are exiting with those degrees.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Base pay for teachers should be $70k year 1. Stipends for things like hard to fill positions (esol, sped, math), and for working in low income schools. Bonuses for 5 year retentions.

I used to teach in one of “those” schools and it is easily twice as hard as teaching at the UMC school. Compensate the teachers who choose that. A Fairfax county teacher should be able to make $100k teaching sped at Poe middle school 10 years into their career. If we want people to come, they have to be paid. Other careers pay.

I honestly have no idea where the money would come from. I know the budget is always tight. But we have to find money somewhere or people are going to continue to leave because the economy says we value editing online content more than teaching kids to read and write.

For starters, IDEA should be fully funded at the federal level. That was how it was sold when the law passed. SPED in my district is a huge part of the budget and most of that is funded locally. Obviously the students requiring services are legally entitled to them and should receive them but the brunt of funding those services should not fall mostly to the local districts. Free up that money and you could pay all teachers considerably more, which would also increase the number of people willing to enter the field or stay in it.

This. So much this.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Your industry needs to grow up and get with supply and demand

DC pays teachers over 100k within 5-10 years if you are good enough

Sure, but the field has really struggled with figuring out how someone is “good enough.” How do you identify the strong teachers? Is it test scores? How do you address the many variables that affect those? Is it parent reviews? Student feedback? Admin observations? It’s remarkably difficult to quantify “strong teachers.” A lot of teaching is an art. That’s why merely having a certain degree isn’t enough. Can you effectively relay your content knowledge to a child?

Also… DC is also facing shortages. Paying teachers more isn’t enough.

I'm not a teacher but the most effective thing I have seen is 1/3 test scores, 1/3 principal/supervisor Evalution and 1/3 student evaluation.

I agree pay isn't the issue. It's just more of a bad whining look of those in the profession. The salaries are public knowledge, everyone knows what they are before signing up.

I will say the scope/expectations have changed with all the extra paperwork and helicopter parents. That's a legitimate gripe and something you couldn't have predicted.

I will absolutely not accept 1/3 test scores, 1/3 evaluations, 1/3 student evaluations. Test scores: how do you account for general ed classes vs. honors classes? Special education? High FARMS rate schools? I once had to take a failing mark on *MY* test data because a student was expelled before the test and wasn’t there to take it. Why should I be held accountable for that? Evaluations: These are ridiculously subjective. All it takes is for a teacher to upset an administrator, and the score goes down. I once lost a ton of points on an eval because a student didn’t have his book on his desk. Why should I lose pay for that? The other 30 students were doing just fine. Student evaluations: I have had to give plenty of failing grades for plagiarized assignments. What type of evaluation do you think I’m going to get from those students? Some teachers are extremely permissive and therefore popular with students. Students may not learn a thing in that class, but the teacher would get high marks.

Accuse me all you want of a “bad whining look.” I’m not going to play the role of the martyr anymore. This job is challenging and this job is important. Frankly, a functioning society depends on it. I don’t care if it looks like teachers are whining. It’s time to stop being doormats.

Please quit instead of complaining just quit. Why would you stay in a job that makes you so miserable, you are toxic to your colleagues and folks that actually want to be there

When things are wrong, people need to speak up to change them. Staying silent and accepting bad treatment is why teachers are so undervalued and underpaid. This shortage, the whole topic of this thread, is happening because teachers are doing exactly what you said: leave if you are miserable. They are leaving in droves. There are recommendations throughout this thread about how to counteract that. Since teachers’ valid concerns are seen as toxic and complaining, how far do you think we are going to get in solving this teacher shortage?

Except you’re not trying to improve things; you’re just complaining. Worse, you actually seem to be pushing back on proposals that could improve things like teacher pay and respect for the profession. That's what makes you toxic.

Can you point to things I wrote that push back on teacher pay and respect for the profession? I’m very sure I have directly stated what I believe needs to be done to improve pay and respect.

I’ve spoken to the BOE multiple times in support of teachers and students. I support newer teachers and serve as a mentor. You have no idea what I’ve done to support my profession. All you’ve seen is my frustration in an anonymous forum. I’m saying what many others are thinking. Instead of dismissing me, try listening.

You seem to say we shouldn’t assess the performance of teachers. And I’m guessing you‘re the same poster the doesn’t want to pay harder-to-fill positions more than other teachers. You’re not going to improve respect for teachers as long as teachers continue to reject performance assessments. And you’re not going to improve pay unless districts have the flexibility to pay what is necessary to recruit teachers in each area.

You are incorrect. I fully support teacher evaluations. I rejected ONE proposal that put 33% on student surveys, 33% on observations, and 33% on testing. Rejecting ONE proposal does not mean I don’t support assessment of performance. As for pay, I reject pitting teachers against each other by raising some pay and not others. I believe ALL teachers deserve better compensation. Since we are facing a shortage in historically easy-to-fill positions, I don’t see how keeping certain teachers’ pay lower is a viable choice.

You seem to be ignoring the immense amount of variables that go into these decisions. Should we link type of degree to pay, or should we link performance to pay? Somebody with a PhD in Chemistry may be brilliant in their field, but may lack the skills necessary to translate that content knowledge to others. Likewise, your BA-possessing 3rd grade teacher may not be as strong in certain content, but may have the personality and skills to engage students and push them further. Who gets more pay, the one with the content knowledge or the one with the better performance? How is that measured? What about the teacher who works in a school with disadvantaged students and limited resources? Their performance may not look as impressive on paper, but they may actually move students further. What about the general Ed teacher with 25 students with IEPs in addition to 100 other students? Should they get paid less than the SPED teacher with 30 students? Pay scales that differ will cause further animosity because you CAN’T adequately account for the many, many variables. This is not a reasonable solution. The reasonable solution is what I have been saying repeatedly: raise ALL salaries. What I have heard from you is a rather insulting idea that education and liberal arts majors have already hit their worth with the current salary scales. I simply disagree.

I’m not rejecting higher pay or teacher performance assessments. I’m rejecting the very narrow and damaging ideas presented on this thread.

And your solution is. All you have done is complain