School residency cheaters investigated

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Agreed. And the scope of the issue is also completely blown up. This is "Cadillac Welfare Mom" redux (except with an Escalade!) While cheating isn't good, there's no evidence that it is some kind of systematic fraud making any sort of meaningful impact on DCPS. This just seems to be a perfect storm of white parents obsessed with being "shut out" from their PK3, and a "news" organization pushing an ideological agenda that is very happy to bash DC and black people in general.

Scope blown up? Really? You may not like the Daily Caller, but you are being disingenuous if you pretend this isn't a substantial problem.

There's no evidence that this is a "substantial problem"!! That's the whole point ...

From a 2012 article:
http://dcist.com/2012/05/dc_looks_into_non-residents_who_att.php

That, of course, got us to thinking—how many non-residents actually send their kids to D.C. public schools?
Not many, it seems. According to an audit performed by the D.C. Office of the State Superintendent for Education, of the 45,191 students in D.C. public schools, only 198 are non-residents. Of the 31,562 students enrolled in public charter schools, 38 were from outside D.C.
Still, the interesting issue seems to be that many of those non-resident students just don't pay what they owe. The audit found that 126 of the 198 non-resident students in DCPS avoided paying their way; in charter schools, it was 32 of the 38.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Agreed. And the scope of the issue is also completely blown up. This is "Cadillac Welfare Mom" redux (except with an Escalade!) While cheating isn't good, there's no evidence that it is some kind of systematic fraud making any sort of meaningful impact on DCPS. This just seems to be a perfect storm of white parents obsessed with being "shut out" from their PK3, and a "news" organization pushing an ideological agenda that is very happy to bash DC and black people in general.

Scope blown up? Really? You may not like the Daily Caller, but you are being disingenuous if you pretend this isn't a substantial problem.

There's no evidence that this is a "substantial problem"!! That's the whole point ...

From a 2012 article:
http://dcist.com/2012/05/dc_looks_into_non-residents_who_att.php

That, of course, got us to thinking—how many non-residents actually send their kids to D.C. public schools?
Not many, it seems. According to an audit performed by the D.C. Office of the State Superintendent for Education, of the 45,191 students in D.C. public schools, only 198 are non-residents. Of the 31,562 students enrolled in public charter schools, 38 were from outside D.C.
Still, the interesting issue seems to be that many of those non-resident students just don't pay what they owe. The audit found that 126 of the 198 non-resident students in DCPS avoided paying their way; in charter schools, it was 32 of the 38.

I thought there were more recent articles on this? Or maybe the issue just keeps coming up. Another 2012 article:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/d.c.-investigating-more-than-100-special-ed-students-for-residency-fraud/article/618326
"D.C. school officials are investigating whether they spent about $7.7 million to send 118 special-education students to private schools who they were never responsible for to begin with.

Under federal law, the District must pay to send special-education students whose needs aren't served by their neighborhood schools elsewhere, often to private school. Between tuition and transportation — school buses regularly transport students to Baltimore and further — the average cost per student is $65,000 each year."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Agreed. And the scope of the issue is also completely blown up. This is "Cadillac Welfare Mom" redux (except with an Escalade!) While cheating isn't good, there's no evidence that it is some kind of systematic fraud making any sort of meaningful impact on DCPS. This just seems to be a perfect storm of white parents obsessed with being "shut out" from their PK3, and a "news" organization pushing an ideological agenda that is very happy to bash DC and black people in general.

Scope blown up? Really? You may not like the Daily Caller, but you are being disingenuous if you pretend this isn't a substantial problem.

There's no evidence that this is a "substantial problem"!! That's the whole point ...

If you read other articles in Washington Post and elsewhere, consider the City Council hearing in 2012, read this and other forums (with the topic coming up again and again over time), and if you open your eyes, the problem is clear.

We're not in a court of law where evidence is needed for a conviction. Rather, plenty of information and examples indicate that this is a substantial problem deserving proper investigation and legal evidence collection.

You can choose to require unassailable evidence before you acknowledge a problem, but that's just dumb. Can I offer you a cigarette?

there's been absolutely no credible evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, that this is some kind of severe issue within the scope of issues facing DC and DC schools. just anonymous DCUM posters and busy bodies counting MD license plates. on the other hand, we have plenty of reason to believe that the Daily Caller "investigation" is a hack job or worse to further their own anti-federal/anti-"liberal" agenda.

Of course there are some parents committing fraud out there. That does not demonstrate this is THE PROBLEM ZoMG!!! with DC schools. If you are super exercised about residency fraud, please take a moment to think why.

There is plenty of credible evidence that residency fraud is a real thing. Our child went to a charter school (not HRCS) where people freely admitted that they lived in MD but had applied with a DC address. I'm not even sure some of them knew it was not okay; they acted like it was perfectly acceptable as long as they could find someone in DC to let them use their address. We switched to a different school and it is like night and day.

Various Post articles have suggested that cross-border residency fraud is a real problem. There was the famous Post article a few years ago in which a student asked his teacher during a lesson on DC history and governance "what ward is Landover in" (where he lived). There was the infamous story about the elementary school child who brought cocaine into school in her backpack. When DC Child & Protective Services tried to intervene, the parents defense was lack of jurisdiction because they lived in Maryland! There was the mother who sued her son's DC charter school over allegations of inappropriate sexual conduct with a teacher -- the suit was brought in Prince George's County where they lived. There was when Wilson the HS football team was disqualified from a bowl game because it came out that some of the football players were Maryland residents. These are generally the cases that come to light because of some other story: cocaine in elementary school, misconduct by charter school staff, being kicked out of a championship game. Think of the situations that never see the light of day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Agreed. And the scope of the issue is also completely blown up. This is "Cadillac Welfare Mom" redux (except with an Escalade!) While cheating isn't good, there's no evidence that it is some kind of systematic fraud making any sort of meaningful impact on DCPS. This just seems to be a perfect storm of white parents obsessed with being "shut out" from their PK3, and a "news" organization pushing an ideological agenda that is very happy to bash DC and black people in general.

Scope blown up? Really? You may not like the Daily Caller, but you are being disingenuous if you pretend this isn't a substantial problem.

There's no evidence that this is a "substantial problem"!! That's the whole point ...

From a 2012 article:
http://dcist.com/2012/05/dc_looks_into_non-residents_who_att.php

That, of course, got us to thinking—how many non-residents actually send their kids to D.C. public schools?
Not many, it seems. According to an audit performed by the D.C. Office of the State Superintendent for Education, of the 45,191 students in D.C. public schools, only 198 are non-residents. Of the 31,562 students enrolled in public charter schools, 38 were from outside D.C.
Still, the interesting issue seems to be that many of those non-resident students just don't pay what they owe. The audit found that 126 of the 198 non-resident students in DCPS avoided paying their way; in charter schools, it was 32 of the 38.

I thought there were more recent articles on this? Or maybe the issue just keeps coming up. Another 2012 article:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/d.c.-investigating-more-than-100-special-ed-students-for-residency-fraud/article/618326
"D.C. school officials are investigating whether they spent about $7.7 million to send 118 special-education students to private schools who they were never responsible for to begin with.

Under federal law, the District must pay to send special-education students whose needs aren't served by their neighborhood schools elsewhere, often to private school. Between tuition and transportation — school buses regularly transport students to Baltimore and further — the average cost per student is $65,000 each year."

This is where the real costs are (direct cash out of pocket by DCPS) and where the incentive for cross-border fraud arguably is greatest.

[Anonymous]

So, which parent on a wait list is willing to be the plaintiff who sues to have all the MD families at their preferred school kicked out by injunction?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Agreed. And the scope of the issue is also completely blown up. This is "Cadillac Welfare Mom" redux (except with an Escalade!) While cheating isn't good, there's no evidence that it is some kind of systematic fraud making any sort of meaningful impact on DCPS. This just seems to be a perfect storm of white parents obsessed with being "shut out" from their PK3, and a "news" organization pushing an ideological agenda that is very happy to bash DC and black people in general.

Scope blown up? Really? You may not like the Daily Caller, but you are being disingenuous if you pretend this isn't a substantial problem.

There's no evidence that this is a "substantial problem"!! That's the whole point ...

If you read other articles in Washington Post and elsewhere, consider the City Council hearing in 2012, read this and other forums (with the topic coming up again and again over time), and if you open your eyes, the problem is clear.

We're not in a court of law where evidence is needed for a conviction. Rather, plenty of information and examples indicate that this is a substantial problem deserving proper investigation and legal evidence collection.

You can choose to require unassailable evidence before you acknowledge a problem, but that's just dumb. Can I offer you a cigarette?

there's been absolutely no credible evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, that this is some kind of severe issue within the scope of issues facing DC and DC schools. just anonymous DCUM posters and busy bodies counting MD license plates. on the other hand, we have plenty of reason to believe that the Daily Caller "investigation" is a hack job or worse to further their own anti-federal/anti-"liberal" agenda.

Of course there are some parents committing fraud out there. That does not demonstrate this is THE PROBLEM ZoMG!!! with DC schools. If you are super exercised about residency fraud, please take a moment to think why.

1. Really bothered by out-of-District students taking spots in DCPS and charters where DC students are shut out of the lottery.

2. Also bothered by DC incurring direct out of pocket costs for non-resident students for whom DC pays for special needs private schools.

3. Even where schools have spots availalble, bothered that scarce school resources are being used by non-residents and being diverted/distorted from other needs like science, enrichment, remedial help which would benefit DC students.

4. Bothered that DC taxpayers are being ripped off, particularly by out of state fraudsters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, which parent on a wait list is willing to be the plaintiff who sues to have all the MD families at their preferred school kicked out by injunction?

They likely would get threatened with bodily harm or worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a DCPS teacher and I can think of about 15 kids at my school who live in MD. Some have told me flat out, some I've figured out in other ways. This is anecdotal, of course, but if I can think of 15 without even trying I'm assuming there are at least another 15 that I don't know about.

I'm sure the next question will be, have you reported it? And, no. Administration has made it pretty clear that they don't want to know. And in some ways, I can see their point--if the administration goes on a hunt to kick these kids out (many of whom are part of families who are well liked, are involved, etc.) it's going to cause a trust issue with remaining families. So while I don't necessarily agree with that stance, I do sort of understand it. I think systemwide tougher verification (random checks, etc) is the way to go, because if it's something the entire district is doing the administration doesn't come out looking like the bad guys. I'm a DC taxpayer too, and I don't like the fact that there's so much cheating.

Do you sense that they may be looking the other way because otherwise that particular school would be under-enrolled and put on the closing list? Because 15 kids off the top of your head is more than half a class.

Not in our case, though I'm sure there are schools where this would be a consideration. We'd still be a long way from under-enrolled. It would almost certainly change staffing--we might lose a position, which wouldn't be ideal. All of those kids don't come out of the same grade level, so it would be a few here, a few there--but the overall numbers might trigger us losing a position, which would then make other classes bigger, or mean that we lost one of the resource support positions.

This sounds like those third world countries that score poorly on the Transparency International index because the personal and bureaucratic incentives to overlook fraud and corruption are strong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:there's been absolutely no credible evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, that this is some kind of severe issue within the scope of issues facing DC and DC schools. just anonymous DCUM posters and busy bodies counting MD license plates. on the other hand, we have plenty of reason to believe that the Daily Caller "investigation" is a hack job or worse to further their own anti-federal/anti-"liberal" agenda.

Personally, I think it's just the opposite. Lots of credible evidence there is lots of residency fraud occurring, and that it's been going on for year. In addition to this recent Daily Caller series and all the details it provides, there have been several similar reports from the Washington Post and other sources. By contrast, there's zero evidence of the Daily Caller investigation being a "hack job," and just lots of insults posted here from people who are likely residency cheaters themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think an examination of rosniak's wife's workplace would show more graft and waste of taxpayer dollars than all the Maryland cheaters in the world. It appears to be a "foundation" for female healthcare executives. To... have female health care executives.

Yeah, yeah, we get it, Ms. Walton. You want to shift the topic to your personal investigation of the reporters involved, their colleges, and their wedding registries. Unfortunately for you, none of those things demonstrate fraud.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dear ms. Watson,

You're not a crusader. You are a self-aggrandizement small person harassing children. Really? You're shocked that many parents were upset that you stalked them? I'm shocked that you have the balls to even basically say that what you really want is for Ludlow Taylor to get white enough for your kids to go there.

God help your kids.

You just illustrated 09:18's point.

You defend theft by calling the messenger racist. Lovely morals.

I don't think PP is defending theft but repudiating the way in which it's being handled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, which parent on a wait list is willing to be the plaintiff who sues to have all the MD families at their preferred school kicked out by injunction?

They likely would get threatened with bodily harm or worse.

Parents probably do not have standing to compel D.C. to enforce its own laws.

[Anonymous]

People's obsession with residency fraud is a great example of the availability bias at work ...

Listen up. Eradicating residency fraud will save a few bucks and may make some people feel better. But it will NOT:

- Guarantee that you don't get "shut out" of your PK3 choice
- Make any of the schools that still have PK3 slots any more acceptable to you
- Make it any more likely that you will keep your child all the way through 5th grade in many of the neighborhoods where people complain about PK3 slots
- Solve the terrible achievement gap still present in DC
- Explain why UMC kids get CMI, but low SES kids get Rocketship
- Provide a good middle school on Capitol Hill
- Provide a good high school on Capitol Hill
- Solves overcrowding at Deal and makes Hardy a more viable option
- Modernize all the schools that desperately need it
- Create a gifted and talented program that serves everyone and strengthens neighborhood schools overall
- Ensures that disabled kids actually get their needs met at DCPS and charters
- Meets all the demand for bilingual education
- Gives all students the amount of recess and outdoor time necessary for their healthy development
- or any of the other zillion problems discussed here on a daily basis

[Anonymous]

It would open up schools to DC residents that are not taken up by out-of-DC residents. Reduce costs for paying teachers for not DC residents - surely DC can find a better way to use those funds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It would open up schools to DC residents that are not taken up by out-of-DC residents. Reduce costs for paying teachers for not DC residents - surely DC can find a better way to use those funds.

Not to mention prove that we are serious about tackling fraud and cronyism.