That Brock Allen Turner is a dirtbag

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there's a lot of people sympathizing with Brock, because they've behaved similarly in their past. And to call him a rapist is to call yourself a rapist, and no one wants to think of themselves as a rapist.

There also seems to be a lot of people here who don't want to admit that getting blitzed drunk and unconscious for hours is very dangerous. No one wants to think of themselves that way.

No one has claimed that getting drunk and passing out is good behavior. NO ONE. Doesn't have anything to do with this guy's guilt.

[Anonymous]

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Yes, obviously there was enough to convict him. The jury convicted him. My point was that if she had had a better memory of the night - if she had been a better witness herself and provided more details about what happened - there may have been even more that they could have charged him with. In case you think I'm implying that she is in any way responsible for this assault I am not. But the reality is drinking to the point of blacking out has made her memory of the night very vague. Thank goodness those Swedes came along when they did because without them I don't know that this ever would have been brought to justice which is scary. She would have woken up behind that dumpster with her clothes a mess, abrasions on her body and no memory of what had happened to her. Scary!

I didn't think you were implying anything about her. I just think part of the reason we kind of accept insane sentences like these is because we imagine there are some facts up in the air. He was charged and convicted of sex crimes that permit a 14 year sentence. The problem isn't that he wasn't charged with enough, its that the judge didn't punish him commensurate with the offense he was convicted of.

Also, a small irony of the Swedes coming along is that they're probably the reason the more serious initial charge wasn't sent to the jury; they interrupted him before he could earn himself more jail time.

I still don't think that this guy was going to rape her. If that had been his intention he would have just done it rather than spending all that time doing that other stuff to her. This wasn't foreplay on his part and he knew that she was passed out cold. He was doing what he wanted to do and making the deliberate decision to leave no evidence behind while maintaining the ability to get up and leave in a hurry if someone came along. He did not anticipate the Swedes tackling the sh*t out of him however. Good for those Swedes!!!! And without those Swedes there would be no case. That is a very sobering thought.

He *did* rape her.

I guess I was going by the old fashioned P in V definition of rape. I don't think that occurred here because he did not want to leave his DNA on the victim. Some posters think that if the Swedes hadn't have come along when they did that he would have progressed to P in V penetration thus upping the severity of his crime and probably the amount of time he received from the judge.

What he did to this young woman was awful but it could have been even worse.

And I just looked at what he was actually convicted of: 6 charges, 3 of them felony. He was convicted of Assault with intent to rape. So it does not sound as though he was convicted of rape. He was convicted of felony sexual assault.

That is some really desperate hair splitting.

Umm, no. That is a FACT. And facts are important.

You are distinguishing between an attempted rape and a rape, and saying "Well, it wasn't that bad. He isn't really a rapist."

It wasn't for lack of trying.

He did not actually rape her which is why he was not convicted of rape. We don't call him a "rapist" any more than we would call the victim of an attempted murder a "murder victim".

I am not "apologizing" for this guy AT ALL. But if you start "convicting" him of things that he did not actually do you make what he DID do sound made up too.

Yeah, you are. We treat attempted murderers with the same harshness as actual murderers. Attempted rapists should get the same treatment as people who actually complete their rape.

Do you seriously believe that he didn't digitally penetrate her with his fingers? The witnesses weren't close enough to see, but do you seriously believe there was no penetration in this case? Any penetration is enough under the law to charge someone with rape (but you have to have a witness who can testify to it.)

He is a sex offender. If it makes you feel better to call him that, rather than a rapist, so be it.

we do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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This was going to be a regrettable night for Emily Doe whether she met up with this guy or not. If he had just backed off and left her alone she STILL would have been passed out behind a dumpster like a skid row bum.

And you know this how? Did she tell you she was planning to pass out behind a dumpster? Do you feel good about yourself for disparaging another human being?

She drank until she passed out. She passed out because she drank. She was going to pass out somewhere. As it turns out, she left a party alone with a 19 year old college kid who had no intention of bringing her back to his dorm room. She may have walked herself behind that dumpster to fool around with him and passed out while they were fooling around, she may have passed out on the sidewalk or in an alleyway or...anywhere. She could have met up with someone a lot scarier and more violent than Brock.

Do you not see that she made choices that were not going to end well for her that night? I am not "disparaging" this woman but she was not doing a good job of looking out for herself and she is responsible for some of the regrettable choices made that night. She did not deserve to get assaulted - nor is her assailant getting away with assaulting her. But she also is responsible for own regrettable actions.

[Anonymous]

It's safe to say he's a dirtbag and it's also safe to say where he learned his horrible behavior. His father obviously is not a good role model and the letter is very telling about his moral compass (or lack of).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there's a lot of people sympathizing with Brock, because they've behaved similarly in their past. And to call him a rapist is to call yourself a rapist, and no one wants to think of themselves as a rapist.

There also seems to be a lot of people here who don't want to admit that getting blitzed drunk and unconscious for hours is very dangerous. No one wants to think of themselves that way.

No one has claimed that getting drunk and passing out is good behavior. NO ONE. Doesn't have anything to do with this guy's guilt.

and I didn't say it did.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Holy. Shit.

https://mobile.twitter.com/laurenduca/status/739505679635992577

Actually, the father is correct.

Both of them were drunk. Both. She was so drunk, she had no idea of anything, and didn't come-to until she was in the hospital, with no recollection. She was black-out drunk. While no one deserves to be raped, she placed herself in a very dangerous state. I do want to know where her friends were, where her sister was, where ANY responsible person was - probably drunk themselves. It would have been a cold day in hell, in college, when I would have left one of my friends (or a perfect stranger) alone, that dangerously drunk.

His son, in his drunken state, assaulted this girl. Very, very wrong. He IS taking responsibility for his actions. What disturbs me, is not only is she NOT taking responsibility for her own stupidity, but she has all the pity in the world. The net result of that is the message that people can get as stupid-drunk as they want and expect NO harm to come of them. That is NOT a message I have EVER given my children, and ever will.

This statement from the victim? “You took away my worth, my privacy, my energy, my time, my intimacy, my confidence, my own voice, until today,” she read in court from her victim impact statement,

What kind of worth does one have when one is so drunk, one can't even function? What kind of confidence? What kind of intimacy?

And this? "I was the wounded antelope of the herd, completely alone and vulnerable, physically unable to fend for myself, and he chose me."

She completely brushes aside her responsibility in becoming a 'wounded antelope'.


The judge did good in this case.

I'm so glad I've only see a few ignorant messages like yours in response to this verdict and article.

It is not illegal to get black-out drunk. This is what the victim did.

It is illegal to stand on a public sidewalk/park/area/etc. drinking alcohol. The victim did not do this.

It is illegal to drink and then drive. The victim did not do this.

It is illegal to be drunk in public, being a nuisance. The victim did not do this.

It is illegal to sexually assault another person. This is what Brock did.

It is illegal to digitally penetrate another person. This is what Brock did.

It is illegal to rub your erect penis on an unconscious person. This is what Brock did.

It is illegal to rape another person. This is what Brock did.

Maybe by breaking it down for you, you'll be able to understand that what she did was not illegal. What he did, was illegal.

She did own up to the fact that it was not smart to drink that much. But again, not illegal. He's never owned up to the fact that what he did was illegal. Even now, after being convicted, he nor his father/family believe what he did was illegal. He did what he did because he drank is their mentality. The alcohol is the perpetrator and Brock and his victim are the real victims!

Telling a woman that she wouldn't have been raped if she hadn't of been so drunk is wrong.
Telling a woman that she wouldn't have been raped if she hadn't been running along in the dark is wrong.
Telling a woman that she wouldn't have been raped if her skirt wasn't so short is wrong.

I refuse to teach my daughter that doing any of the above could lead to her being raped. Why? Because I expect you to teach your son that rape/sexual assault is illegal. End of story.

I've taught my kids that when you're drunk out of your mind and unconscious or high on drugs, you're putting yourself in a very vulnerable position because there are bad people in this world who will take advantage of you if they can. Wish that weren't true, but it is.

[Anonymous]

What do we know about his family connection (i.e., parents connection to power and money)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:It can be very confusing for an 18 or 19 year old boy when he is with a girl and they both been drinking heavily in regards to where the line is...especially if he has no explicit conversations with anyone about the exact parameters of what constitutes consent.

In many cases, you are asking a boy whose judgment is impaired to make judgment calls on the amount of impairment of the girl, something that can be very hard for him to do. A boy can be drunk and not realize the girl is as drunk or drunker than he is.

I would expect a kid who gets into Stanford to realize that he should not finger a woman who is unconscious behind a dumpster.

But he was a DRUNK kid who got into Stanford. Brains and rational thought go out the window when you're that drunk. Women can't trust someone like that to care what they're doing.

And when a kid gets so drunk that he forgets about consent, he should go to jail. If he can't control himself, he shouldn't drink.

True. When a girl goes to a party, accidentally drinks too much, cheats on her boyfriend and ends up by a dumpster, she shouldn't drink. No college kid should drink.

A girl isn't cheating on her boyfriend when she's being raped.

I should have specified, before at the party. That's where she cheated on him.

Yes, according to HER RAPIST a year after he was originally questioned...she kissed him

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Holy. Shit.

https://mobile.twitter.com/laurenduca/status/739505679635992577

Actually, the father is correct.

Both of them were drunk. Both. She was so drunk, she had no idea of anything, and didn't come-to until she was in the hospital, with no recollection. She was black-out drunk. While no one deserves to be raped, she placed herself in a very dangerous state. I do want to know where her friends were, where her sister was, where ANY responsible person was - probably drunk themselves. It would have been a cold day in hell, in college, when I would have left one of my friends (or a perfect stranger) alone, that dangerously drunk.

His son, in his drunken state, assaulted this girl. Very, very wrong. He IS taking responsibility for his actions. What disturbs me, is not only is she NOT taking responsibility for her own stupidity, but she has all the pity in the world. The net result of that is the message that people can get as stupid-drunk as they want and expect NO harm to come of them. That is NOT a message I have EVER given my children, and ever will.

This statement from the victim? “You took away my worth, my privacy, my energy, my time, my intimacy, my confidence, my own voice, until today,” she read in court from her victim impact statement,

What kind of worth does one have when one is so drunk, one can't even function? What kind of confidence? What kind of intimacy?

And this? "I was the wounded antelope of the herd, completely alone and vulnerable, physically unable to fend for myself, and he chose me."

She completely brushes aside her responsibility in becoming a 'wounded antelope'.


The judge did good in this case.

Probably in the minority on this forum but I completely agree with you. And for her to equate her experience with that if someone who is raped by a stranger (i.e. Pulled off the sidewalk without warning and raped with life threatened) trivializes the latter's assault. These crimes are absolutely different.

Rape is rape. I wasn't pulled off a street by a random but I was drugged and carried unconscious up to his dorm room. You think my experience in the aftermath of my rape is different bc I was drinking that night or bc I left my beer unattended with someone I thought was a friend? The only thing that makes my experience different than the violent stranger rape you describe, is that people like you would blame me for thinking I should be able to go out and have a beer w/o getting raped. Actually, people like you would probably also blame a victim of stranger rape for their clothing or the hour they were walking around at night. This woman was so drunk that she passed out unconscious. he was rejected by other more coherent women's that night - he chose her bc she couldn't fight back. Let me repeat, rape is rape.

The key point is that those other women rejected him and he backed off. He was not trying to force himself on anyone. And Emily Doe was not exactly a babe in the woods herself. She willingly left with this guy and she probably would have willingly engaged in sexual acts with him if she had not passed out. But she did pass out and he kept going...an obvious sexual assault.

This was going to be a regrettable night for Emily Doe whether she met up with this guy or not. If he had just backed off and left her alone she STILL would have been passed out behind a dumpster like a skid row bum.

Regretting a drunk night is way, way, WAY different than being raped.

She could have been the Virgin Mary and people like you would still find a way to rationalize that it was her fault.

[Anonymous]

That his dad described sexual activity as "getting action" shows the mindset this kid was raised with. Who knows, maybe he and his dad had man to man talks about this. Dad" hey brock, good swim times! how about your social life? you getting any action with the coeds there?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This was going to be a regrettable night for Emily Doe whether she met up with this guy or not. If he had just backed off and left her alone she STILL would have been passed out behind a dumpster like a skid row bum.

And you know this how? Did she tell you she was planning to pass out behind a dumpster? Do you feel good about yourself for disparaging another human being?

She drank until she passed out. She passed out because she drank. She was going to pass out somewhere. As it turns out, she left a party alone with a 19 year old college kid who had no intention of bringing her back to his dorm room. She may have walked herself behind that dumpster to fool around with him and passed out while they were fooling around, she may have passed out on the sidewalk or in an alleyway or...anywhere. She could have met up with someone a lot scarier and more violent than Brock.

Do you not see that she made choices that were not going to end well for her that night? I am not "disparaging" this woman but she was not doing a good job of looking out for herself and she is responsible for some of the regrettable choices made that night. She did not deserve to get assaulted - nor is her assailant getting away with assaulting her. But she also is responsible for own regrettable actions.

Thank you for saying what too many people here don't want to admit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What do we know about his family connection (i.e., parents connection to power and money)?

He was in school on scholarship. Not rich, not well connected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What do we know about his family connection (i.e., parents connection to power and money)?

good question

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there's a lot of people sympathizing with Brock, because they've behaved similarly in their past. And to call him a rapist is to call yourself a rapist, and no one wants to think of themselves as a rapist.

There also seems to be a lot of people here who don't want to admit that getting blitzed drunk and unconscious for hours is very dangerous. No one wants to think of themselves that way.

No one has claimed that getting drunk and passing out is good behavior. NO ONE. Doesn't have anything to do with this guy's guilt.

and I didn't say it did.

Every time you post, you excuse the rapist's behavior. You are part of the problem that led this guy to think that this was okay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do we know about his family connection (i.e., parents connection to power and money)?

He was in school on scholarship. Not rich, not well connected.

He was a potential Olympian on the Stanford swim team. He was very protected.