APS Closing Nottingham

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the traffic deaths and safety issues are the primary concerns of the Nottingham neighborhood, then let’s have some meetings with County traffic experts and figure this out!! It can’t be that the facility can never be used for bus and car traffic. It just may take some additional calming measures or re-routing if school bound traffic. Plenty of neighborhoods have one-way traffic on streets near schools to avoid cut through and maximize safety. I’m positive the County and the neighborhood can work together to make this safe.

We've been trying for years, but you sound very optimistic.

yeah, lol, let's just have some meetings and figure this out!

do you really think that has not been tried? what makes you so positive they will listen when they have not for YEARS. Good lord, the naivete.

TJ and the surrounding neighborhood had the same problem. And they had to fight fight fight even after Fleet opened. But the County did finally add crosswalks and stop signs. you will need to be pushing both APS and the County and APS needs to push the County. Will you ever be completely satisfied? No. Will accidents still happen. Most likely. Just like everywhere else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not read the whole thread, but on paper, this whole thing makes a lot of sense to me. We do have excess capacity in that part of Arlington right now, we do need a swing space because we have a lot of old buildings.

I am sorry for the Nottingham community, as someone who has been through a boundary process that chopped up our neighborhood school, it sucked. But as a taxpayer, sorry folks, this is just life. There is no perfect solution, but I think this is a good call on APS' part.

As for traffic, etc. PLEASE. You have no idea. There are lots of neighborhoods in Arlington with multiple schools. Also plenty that have lived through huge construction projects. You will be OK.

I was with you until the traffic comment. The community is very sensitive because of the three tragic, recent deaths.

I live near TJ middle school where a pedestrian was also recently killed. Since we moved here, they have built Fleet and are now adding 1000 seats to the Career Center. They also took our neighborhood elementary school (Henry) and chopped it in half. So, again, I am sympathetic, I am, but I still think this decision makes sense.

Also, with the passage of Missing Middle, Arlington is basically announcing that no one is guaranteed anything, so get used to it, folks.

Oh, I totally agree that this makes sense, but flippant comments about getting over the traffic concerns are really unnecessary given the background of what has happened in the community/Neughborhood.

OK, fair enough. I don't know the whole background. I was just trying to make the point that lots of Arlington neighborhoods have to deal with significant amounts of school related traffic. I am not flippant about pedestrian deaths, and if there have been lots around Nottingham, that is a concern. Arlington Heights had to advocate years ago for a STOP sign on a busy school route. It took a ridiculous amount of time to get it, too. But generally speaking, I don't see APS stopping any projects because of traffic concerns. You will just have to advocate for safety where you can. Every school project has traffic concerns is my point.

I live in their neighborhood. You don't think we advocated for safety after the 1st, 2nd and 3rd death?! Get over yourself, you are truly awful.

You don't know anything about me, but thanks for calling me awful. Take a look at the pedestrian injury/fatality map in Arlington. https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiOTljN2M0YjQtNjU4ZS00MDJmLWI1NjMtYjc4MDRkMDI5ZjU1IiwidCI6IjgwMzU0ODA0LTFmZGYtNDI4ZS05ZjVmLTUwOTFlOTk0Y2Y1NCIsImMiOjF9

There certainly is a cluster of deaths and injuries along Little Falls, but also check out 2nd St S in Arlington Heights. You can see 2 deaths and 2 injuries in the last 10 years (and that's ignoring all the injuries along Rt. 50 just north of there). This neighborhood is home to 4 schools: TJ, Fleet, MPSA, and the Career Center. Over 3,000+ students.

And, you are not even talking about APS adding a new school at Tuckahoe. They are changing the traffic patterns around an existing site -- I would guess adding a lot more buses and fewer cars. And, for the third time, yes, I am sorry about the traffic concerns, and I think they are real, but that does not mean APS can't or should not do this.

But, I say this as a site neighbor to the Career Center site which is going to be under construction for MANY YEARS, in a neighborhood that already has a lot of students and a lot of traffic and also a lot of injuries, I do think this is part of living in an urban environment. I'm not saying to ignore safety, but I don't think we can not make changes because of traffic. We just have to do the best we can to mitigate it.

And, again, really, I feel your pain. I do. A lot of us do. APS does not value continuity for kids at all, as it has shown in every single boundary process.

+1000 And I would also include the fact that the Career Center site is being expanded; so even more students will be coming and going to and from this compact area surrounded by major thoroughfare roads (Columbia Pike, Walter Reed, Glebe, and 50).

Unfortunately, PP, 22207 folks think this is fine for us folks living in less expensive neighborhoods in an urban environment; but believe they do not live in an urban environment - and expect to keep it that way no matter how much density is forced on the rest of Arlington.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I never said they weren't real. Mainly I am saying that just because a project will bring traffic doesn't mean it can't happen. Every single APS project has traffic implications. Nottingham is not unique in this regard. And yes, there is a terrible history there I was not specifically aware of, but if you look at the map I shared, this part of Arlington does not have the most safety concerns of anywhere in Arlington. Look at Columbia Pike for example.

I also think YOU are not aware of the issues other communities deal with. Are you aware of the specific traffic concerns the communities south of Rt 50 deal with? That doesn't stop new schools from being built here. We've also had fatalities. It's also awful.

Do you want to stop every APS project in Arlington? I am just saying, it does not make sense to not consider this just because of traffic issues. We have to manage and deal with the traffic issues as best we can. And that's the truth.

+1000000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Several Dozen Buses”? What in the world - Jamestown currently has 4 and Taylor I believe has 4/5. In what scenario would APS have 24 buses lined up outside Nottingham for drop off?

One in which 500-600 kids are being bused from their home neighborhoods 1 or more miles away, minus car traffic from extended day usage. Kidd who can walk to Jamestown can’t walk to Nottingham. That’s a stretch even for me and I put a lot of miles on my shoes.

No. Wakefield HS has several buses. 2000 students from - what, a third? - of the county. Still, I seriously doubt it is "several dozen" buses. Two dozen would be 24. "two" is not "several."

Buses make whole loops and routes. They don't just send one bus for every block and bring kids individually to school.
Buses hold 50 - 70 kids. 600 kids divided by 60 per bus = 10 buses. That's hardly "several dozen."

In fact, it's not even ONE dozen!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not read the whole thread, but on paper, this whole thing makes a lot of sense to me. We do have excess capacity in that part of Arlington right now, we do need a swing space because we have a lot of old buildings.

I am sorry for the Nottingham community, as someone who has been through a boundary process that chopped up our neighborhood school, it sucked. But as a taxpayer, sorry folks, this is just life. There is no perfect solution, but I think this is a good call on APS' part.

As for traffic, etc. PLEASE. You have no idea. There are lots of neighborhoods in Arlington with multiple schools. Also plenty that have lived through huge construction projects. You will be OK.

I was with you until the traffic comment. The community is very sensitive because of the three tragic, recent deaths.

I live near TJ middle school where a pedestrian was also recently killed. Since we moved here, they have built Fleet and are now adding 1000 seats to the Career Center. They also took our neighborhood elementary school (Henry) and chopped it in half. So, again, I am sympathetic, I am, but I still think this decision makes sense.

Also, with the passage of Missing Middle, Arlington is basically announcing that no one is guaranteed anything, so get used to it, folks.

Oh, I totally agree that this makes sense, but flippant comments about getting over the traffic concerns are really unnecessary given the background of what has happened in the community/Neughborhood.

OK, fair enough. I don't know the whole background. I was just trying to make the point that lots of Arlington neighborhoods have to deal with significant amounts of school related traffic. I am not flippant about pedestrian deaths, and if there have been lots around Nottingham, that is a concern. Arlington Heights had to advocate years ago for a STOP sign on a busy school route. It took a ridiculous amount of time to get it, too. But generally speaking, I don't see APS stopping any projects because of traffic concerns. You will just have to advocate for safety where you can. Every school project has traffic concerns is my point.

I live in their neighborhood. You don't think we advocated for safety after the 1st, 2nd and 3rd death?! Get over yourself, you are truly awful.

You don't know anything about me, but thanks for calling me awful. Take a look at the pedestrian injury/fatality map in Arlington. https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiOTljN2M0YjQtNjU4ZS00MDJmLWI1NjMtYjc4MDRkMDI5ZjU1IiwidCI6IjgwMzU0ODA0LTFmZGYtNDI4ZS05ZjVmLTUwOTFlOTk0Y2Y1NCIsImMiOjF9

There certainly is a cluster of deaths and injuries along Little Falls, but also check out 2nd St S in Arlington Heights. You can see 2 deaths and 2 injuries in the last 10 years (and that's ignoring all the injuries along Rt. 50 just north of there). This neighborhood is home to 4 schools: TJ, Fleet, MPSA, and the Career Center. Over 3,000+ students.

And, you are not even talking about APS adding a new school at Tuckahoe. They are changing the traffic patterns around an existing site -- I would guess adding a lot more buses and fewer cars. And, for the third time, yes, I am sorry about the traffic concerns, and I think they are real, but that does not mean APS can't or should not do this.

But, I say this as a site neighbor to the Career Center site which is going to be under construction for MANY YEARS, in a neighborhood that already has a lot of students and a lot of traffic and also a lot of injuries, I do think this is part of living in an urban environment. I'm not saying to ignore safety, but I don't think we can not make changes because of traffic. We just have to do the best we can to mitigate it.

And, again, really, I feel your pain. I do. A lot of us do. APS does not value continuity for kids at all, as it has shown in every single boundary process.

+1000 And I would also include the fact that the Career Center site is being expanded; so even more students will be coming and going to and from this compact area surrounded by major thoroughfare roads (Columbia Pike, Walter Reed, Glebe, and 50).

Unfortunately, PP, 22207 folks think this is fine for us folks living in less expensive neighborhoods in an urban environment; but believe they do not live in an urban environment - and expect to keep it that way no matter how much density is forced on the rest of Arlington.

Yeah those of us who are so-called “discount buyers” who “made different choices” should just suck it up for the Notties. I mean we we chose to live here so we definitely should give them deference about their traffic concerns. We’ve had traffic fatalities in our neighborhood too.

These next few months are going to be so much fun hearing all the arguments why their school is so special compared to all the other schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I never said they weren't real. Mainly I am saying that just because a project will bring traffic doesn't mean it can't happen. Every single APS project has traffic implications. Nottingham is not unique in this regard. And yes, there is a terrible history there I was not specifically aware of, but if you look at the map I shared, this part of Arlington does not have the most safety concerns of anywhere in Arlington. Look at Columbia Pike for example.

I also think YOU are not aware of the issues other communities deal with. Are you aware of the specific traffic concerns the communities south of Rt 50 deal with? That doesn't stop new schools from being built here. We've also had fatalities. It's also awful.

Do you want to stop every APS project in Arlington? I am just saying, it does not make sense to not consider this just because of traffic issues. We have to manage and deal with the traffic issues as best we can. And that's the truth.

You lost all credibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not read the whole thread, but on paper, this whole thing makes a lot of sense to me. We do have excess capacity in that part of Arlington right now, we do need a swing space because we have a lot of old buildings.

I am sorry for the Nottingham community, as someone who has been through a boundary process that chopped up our neighborhood school, it sucked. But as a taxpayer, sorry folks, this is just life. There is no perfect solution, but I think this is a good call on APS' part.

As for traffic, etc. PLEASE. You have no idea. There are lots of neighborhoods in Arlington with multiple schools. Also plenty that have lived through huge construction projects. You will be OK.

I was with you until the traffic comment. The community is very sensitive because of the three tragic, recent deaths.

I live near TJ middle school where a pedestrian was also recently killed. Since we moved here, they have built Fleet and are now adding 1000 seats to the Career Center. They also took our neighborhood elementary school (Henry) and chopped it in half. So, again, I am sympathetic, I am, but I still think this decision makes sense.

Also, with the passage of Missing Middle, Arlington is basically announcing that no one is guaranteed anything, so get used to it, folks.

Oh, I totally agree that this makes sense, but flippant comments about getting over the traffic concerns are really unnecessary given the background of what has happened in the community/Neughborhood.

OK, fair enough. I don't know the whole background. I was just trying to make the point that lots of Arlington neighborhoods have to deal with significant amounts of school related traffic. I am not flippant about pedestrian deaths, and if there have been lots around Nottingham, that is a concern. Arlington Heights had to advocate years ago for a STOP sign on a busy school route. It took a ridiculous amount of time to get it, too. But generally speaking, I don't see APS stopping any projects because of traffic concerns. You will just have to advocate for safety where you can. Every school project has traffic concerns is my point.

I live in their neighborhood. You don't think we advocated for safety after the 1st, 2nd and 3rd death?! Get over yourself, you are truly awful.

You don't know anything about me, but thanks for calling me awful. Take a look at the pedestrian injury/fatality map in Arlington. https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiOTljN2M0YjQtNjU4ZS00MDJmLWI1NjMtYjc4MDRkMDI5ZjU1IiwidCI6IjgwMzU0ODA0LTFmZGYtNDI4ZS05ZjVmLTUwOTFlOTk0Y2Y1NCIsImMiOjF9

There certainly is a cluster of deaths and injuries along Little Falls, but also check out 2nd St S in Arlington Heights. You can see 2 deaths and 2 injuries in the last 10 years (and that's ignoring all the injuries along Rt. 50 just north of there). This neighborhood is home to 4 schools: TJ, Fleet, MPSA, and the Career Center. Over 3,000+ students.

And, you are not even talking about APS adding a new school at Tuckahoe. They are changing the traffic patterns around an existing site -- I would guess adding a lot more buses and fewer cars. And, for the third time, yes, I am sorry about the traffic concerns, and I think they are real, but that does not mean APS can't or should not do this.

But, I say this as a site neighbor to the Career Center site which is going to be under construction for MANY YEARS, in a neighborhood that already has a lot of students and a lot of traffic and also a lot of injuries, I do think this is part of living in an urban environment. I'm not saying to ignore safety, but I don't think we can not make changes because of traffic. We just have to do the best we can to mitigate it.

And, again, really, I feel your pain. I do. A lot of us do. APS does not value continuity for kids at all, as it has shown in every single boundary process.

+1000 And I would also include the fact that the Career Center site is being expanded; so even more students will be coming and going to and from this compact area surrounded by major thoroughfare roads (Columbia Pike, Walter Reed, Glebe, and 50).

Unfortunately, PP, 22207 folks think this is fine for us folks living in less expensive neighborhoods in an urban environment; but believe they do not live in an urban environment - and expect to keep it that way no matter how much density is forced on the rest of Arlington.

Yeah those of us who are so-called “discount buyers” who “made different choices” should just suck it up for the Notties. I mean we we chose to live here so we definitely should give them deference about their traffic concerns. We’ve had traffic fatalities in our neighborhood too.

These next few months are going to be so much fun hearing all the arguments why their school is so special compared to all the other schools.

Groan. Crap like this is why we still have hazing in 2023. Someone put up with something stupid, and thinks it’s only fair to force others to put up with the same. And it’s not “Nottingham” or it’s PTA or it’s parents doing anything to you or not allowing something to happen. It’s APS staff, with a school board YOU elected. If your school is dysfunctional TAKE IT UP WITH THEM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Good lord these Nottingham parents, I can't even. There is ALWAYS something getting in the way of using their resources for the greater good of the community. It's such a strange coincidence, but there is always one thing that just makes the plan unworkable for them where it would work for every other community.

PP has been so polite to Nottingham parent in explaining that other schools also deal with traffic issues and manage to get through it, and Notting parent has been nothing but snotty and rude to them. What kind of discourse is this, Nottingham parent? What will it take for you to understand that other APS school communities go through this stuff all the time, and manage to get through it, without being jerks to everyone around them. The real solution here is not to stand there and argumentatively block the move, but to work towards making it as safe as possible for everyone -- but of course you won't be doing that if your safety concerns are really just a pretext for not wanting your local school to be used in this way.

If you woke up one morning and found out the elementary school within a few blocks of your house would close in a few years, wouldn’t you be upset and try everything you could to advocate for a different plan?

[Anonymous]

Look just stop. The argument that PEOPLE WILL DIE if Nottingham ceases being a neighborhood school is hysterical and insane.

[Anonymous]

OK. Just to recap the argument. There have been several traffic fatalities along Yorktown Boulevard. As a consequence, Nottingham can’t ever be used for any purpose other than exactly how it’s being used right now. Neighborhood school with only 2 classes in at least 2 grades. There have been similar traffic fatalities at the Fleet/TJ site (also very close to the career center that brings people from all over the county all day long), but that’s different because their houses cost less. Did I get it right?

[Anonymous]

Forget it, Jake. It's Nottingham.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because APS had a history of mistakes and overlooking issues. Some of us don’t think it’s in the best interest of any kids to put a 100 % drop off school in an area where three adults have recently been killed by cars.

I’m a Nott parent. I know these streets. We are incredibly lucky that no children have been killed. Some of us would like to keep it that way. Others are flippantly dismissive and just plain insensitive.

It seems odd to me that Nottingham parents are trying to portray Little Falls as a death trap while also demanding that their children get to keep attending the school. So only current families know how to navigate the traffic issues?

Not odd at all. Nottingham is known for its walkability. Current families don't ALL drive to the school, in fact very few do at all. You realize that will be the scenario right? All busses and car riders. That changes the dynamic of the neighborhood for several hours in the morning and evening (extended day). I am not a Nottingham parent but I do live in the neighborhood. Its also been proven that drivers use less caution when not in their own neighborhood and when in a hurry (drop offs).

You are twisting yourself into a pretzel here. The tragic pedestrian deaths have occurred with current traffic levels. It seems to be that a responsible, concerned parent would be advocating for the closure of Nottingham on that basis alone.

Dramatic much? No, we advocated for traffic reduction and stop signs. It's not reasonable to close a school. It is reasonable to enforce traffic safety protocols.

It’s not drama to point out how hypocritical the Nottingham parents are. If the traffic is so dangerous, why do you want your children to keep attending school there? Ohhhhh, right, that’s not what it is about at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good lord these Nottingham parents, I can't even. There is ALWAYS something getting in the way of using their resources for the greater good of the community. It's such a strange coincidence, but there is always one thing that just makes the plan unworkable for them where it would work for every other community.

PP has been so polite to Nottingham parent in explaining that other schools also deal with traffic issues and manage to get through it, and Notting parent has been nothing but snotty and rude to them. What kind of discourse is this, Nottingham parent? What will it take for you to understand that other APS school communities go through this stuff all the time, and manage to get through it, without being jerks to everyone around them. The real solution here is not to stand there and argumentatively block the move, but to work towards making it as safe as possible for everyone -- but of course you won't be doing that if your safety concerns are really just a pretext for not wanting your local school to be used in this way.

If you woke up one morning and found out the elementary school within a few blocks of your house would close in a few years, wouldn’t you be upset and try everything you could to advocate for a different plan?

So many APS families have been rezoned to schools that are farther away from them that were not as convenient and that were not their expectation when they moved into the area, including me, twice. In the end, it was fine. I say this with kindness -- it will be okay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK. Just to recap the argument. There have been several traffic fatalities along Yorktown Boulevard. As a consequence, Nottingham can’t ever be used for any purpose other than exactly how it’s being used right now. Neighborhood school with only 2 classes in at least 2 grades. There have been similar traffic fatalities at the Fleet/TJ site (also very close to the career center that brings people from all over the county all day long), but that’s different because their houses cost less. Did I get it right?

Well, you could start by getting the name of the road right. Just one clue that you have no idea what you're talking about. Clearly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK. Just to recap the argument. There have been several traffic fatalities along Yorktown Boulevard. As a consequence, Nottingham can’t ever be used for any purpose other than exactly how it’s being used right now. Neighborhood school with only 2 classes in at least 2 grades. There have been similar traffic fatalities at the Fleet/TJ site (also very close to the career center that brings people from all over the county all day long), but that’s different because their houses cost less. Did I get it right?

Well, you could start by getting the name of the road right. Just one clue that you have no idea what you're talking about. Clearly.

I don't understand why PP is comparing this to Fleet/TJ. Unless there's a proposal to use Fleet for swing space, which there is not.