TJ admissions decision - repercussions for Class of 2026

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In addition, 20% of the FCPS teachers must be Asian to properly reflect the student population. 20% of the County employees must be Asians to reflect the demographics of the County.
20% of the County contracts and grants must go to Asians and Asian groups. It is not equitable that virtually 0% goes to Asians and Asian groups.

FCPS would love to get more people applying to be teachers. The same goes for FCPD and FCFD.

Well, it’s possible that asians aren’t motivated to apply because they think their chances of getting these positions are too small and don’t want to invest time into it. May be board/county/state should introduce point systems and give booster points for all the under represented races (use ‘some’ proxy classification that implies race) and relax criteria a bit in all the government positions so more Asians and other minorities will apply in future! What do you think?

Sure. Go round up some applicants. We need more qualified teachers.

But we don't just want teaching positions. We want representation in the top positions like county judges or in contracts and grants. Just like you are advocating diversity in the top high school (and not any high school), we also want diversity in the top county positions. How about we get asian representation in the Supreme Court?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In addition, 20% of the FCPS teachers must be Asian to properly reflect the student population. 20% of the County employees must be Asians to reflect the demographics of the County.
20% of the County contracts and grants must go to Asians and Asian groups. It is not equitable that virtually 0% goes to Asians and Asian groups.

FCPS would love to get more people applying to be teachers. The same goes for FCPD and FCFD.

Well, it’s possible that asians aren’t motivated to apply because they think their chances of getting these positions are too small and don’t want to invest time into it. May be board/county/state should introduce point systems and give booster points for all the under represented races (use ‘some’ proxy classification that implies race) and relax criteria a bit in all the government positions so more Asians and other minorities will apply in future! What do you think?

Sure. Go round up some applicants. We need more qualified teachers.

But we don't just want teaching positions. We want representation in the top positions like county judges or in contracts and grants. Just like you are advocating diversity in the top high school (and not any high school), we also want diversity in the top county positions. How about we get asian representation in the Supreme Court?

Agree 100%. I suggested this on the thread in political.

Look at 8a options for fed contracts too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In addition, 20% of the FCPS teachers must be Asian to properly reflect the student population. 20% of the County employees must be Asians to reflect the demographics of the County.
20% of the County contracts and grants must go to Asians and Asian groups. It is not equitable that virtually 0% goes to Asians and Asian groups.

Let's not forget all the sport teams need to have 20% asian representation. It doesn't matter if there are better qualified athletes. Asian students deserve 20% of the spots in the name of equity

Why? The goal of an athletic team is to win games. There is no goal that TJ has that is expressly competitive in nature. The fact that it has been adjudged one of the top high schools in the country doesn't make that its goal.

Its goal is to educate talented students with an eye towards preparing them for a STEM or STEM-adjacent career. I would almost argue that the STEM community writ large would be better served by TJ taking really bright kids who are not sure what they want to do when they grow up and inspiring them to pursue STEM, rather than just taking kids whose parents have already decided that they will be doctors or engineers and giving them cool toys to play with for four years... especially when those kids are probably going to get to play with those cool toys in the form of summer internships anyway.

Oh boy, so many assumptions here! First, as a PP mentioned, team sports' main goals is to develop sportsmanship, encourage fitness,... Just as you said that TJ's original goal was not to become a top high school, sport teams were not originally created with the goal of winning games. Also, assuming that asian kids aren't as strong as others in some sports, would it not be good to allow them to participate? This will certainly benefit stronger athletes ie teach them empathy, the benefits of diversity and all that good stuff that many are saying TJ would benefit from if its students were more diverse. Lastly, why would you think that admitting asians in sport teams will cause the teams to become weaker? Maybe it's about time you look into your own prejudice and give some of these asian kids a chance to prove themselves just as you are advocating for the other minority groups to be given a chance to prove themselves academcally.

Lots to unpack here. Obviously there are a significant number of goals when it comes to scholastic sports that go above and beyond winning games, but the tryout process is designed to select players that will help the team win games. Asian students have an opportunity in those tryout process to show that they will be contributing members of the teams just like anyone else has, but coaches select players with an eye towards who will help them win games. And that's the key difference that people don't seem to understand. There are intramural opportunities for students to achieve many of the same ancillary goals that were mentioned earlier regarding physical fitness and camaraderie, but when it comes to interscholastic sports, the goal is to compete and win. If there are Asian players who can help teams win, I promise you coaches will select them - and they do in many sports.

That sort of goal does not exist with respect to the TJ admissions process. And that's fundamentally why the analogy doesn't work. You're trying to create equivalence where there is none.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In addition, 20% of the FCPS teachers must be Asian to properly reflect the student population. 20% of the County employees must be Asians to reflect the demographics of the County.
20% of the County contracts and grants must go to Asians and Asian groups. It is not equitable that virtually 0% goes to Asians and Asian groups.

FCPS would love to get more people applying to be teachers. The same goes for FCPD and FCFD.

Well, it’s possible that asians aren’t motivated to apply because they think their chances of getting these positions are too small and don’t want to invest time into it. May be board/county/state should introduce point systems and give booster points for all the under represented races (use ‘some’ proxy classification that implies race) and relax criteria a bit in all the government positions so more Asians and other minorities will apply in future! What do you think?

Sure. Go round up some applicants. We need more qualified teachers.

You see qualification is arbitrary. We can just dilute the requirements so that more people from all levels can easily qualify. If you understand the statistics, it is not difficult to come up with some new criteria that is overly represented by the specific under represented race/group and add some bonus points and also reduce the weightage to some existing criteria another race/group appears to be benefiting from. There is no need to go round up applicants, just publish the new selection criteria, applicants will come and there is no need to go door to door with a big drum.

I guess you understand I am being sarcastic. Its stupid and insulting to give 'quotas' and/or 'bonus' points to specific groups of people to boost their chances as if they can't compete fairly. You need remove barriers and provide incentives to that more people will become interested. For example, a while ago (in 2000s), I told my boss to hire more women and the response I got was - "I would love to hire more women, but we can't change our job requirements or choose a lesser qualified candidate. All we can do is to offer better benefits, flexible time etc so women feel more welcome here. Also, if there aren't many qualified candidates in pipeline, there isn't much we can do".

The point I am making here, we shouldn't reduce standards or introduce new selection critiera (quotas, bonus points etc) that favors one group over others. We should instead focus on generating interest, conduct seminars, teachers encourage good students from under represented schools to apply, offer extra classes/training, provide better transportation/assistance etc.

This is my take. I understand you may not necessarily agree with this, which is fine. Btw, we arguing in this channel doesn't change anything expect

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In addition, 20% of the FCPS teachers must be Asian to properly reflect the student population. 20% of the County employees must be Asians to reflect the demographics of the County.
20% of the County contracts and grants must go to Asians and Asian groups. It is not equitable that virtually 0% goes to Asians and Asian groups.

FCPS would love to get more people applying to be teachers. The same goes for FCPD and FCFD.

Well, it’s possible that asians aren’t motivated to apply because they think their chances of getting these positions are too small and don’t want to invest time into it. May be board/county/state should introduce point systems and give booster points for all the under represented races (use ‘some’ proxy classification that implies race) and relax criteria a bit in all the government positions so more Asians and other minorities will apply in future! What do you think?

Sure. Go round up some applicants. We need more qualified teachers.

You see qualification is arbitrary. We can just dilute the requirements so that more people from all levels can easily qualify. If you understand the statistics, it is not difficult to come up with some new criteria that is overly represented by the specific under represented race/group and add some bonus points and also reduce the weightage to some existing criteria another race/group appears to be benefiting from. There is no need to go round up applicants, just publish the new selection criteria, applicants will come and there is no need to go door to door with a big drum.

I guess you understand I am being sarcastic. Its stupid and insulting to give 'quotas' and/or 'bonus' points to specific groups of people to boost their chances as if they can't compete fairly. You need remove barriers and provide incentives to that more people will become interested. For example, a while ago (in 2000s), I told my boss to hire more women and the response I got was - "I would love to hire more women, but we can't change our job requirements or choose a lesser qualified candidate. All we can do is to offer better benefits, flexible time etc so women feel more welcome here. Also, if there aren't many qualified candidates in pipeline, there isn't much we can do".

The point I am making here, we shouldn't reduce standards or introduce new selection critiera (quotas, bonus points etc) that favors one group over others. We should instead focus on generating interest, conduct seminars, teachers encourage good students from under represented schools to apply, offer extra classes/training, provide better transportation/assistance etc.

This is my take. I understand you may not necessarily agree with this, which is fine. Btw, we arguing in this channel doesn't change anything expect

DP. Again - we are talking about 13 year olds here, not adults. There is NO COMPARISON to be had between admitting kids to a school and hiring them for a job.

I don't belong to the TJ Alumni Action Group, but they are doing literally all of the things that are highlighted in bold above. Folks in the Coalition 4 TJ frequently talk a good game about those being things that we should do, but they don't actually do any of them.

Guess which group seems more sincere?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In addition, 20% of the FCPS teachers must be Asian to properly reflect the student population. 20% of the County employees must be Asians to reflect the demographics of the County.
20% of the County contracts and grants must go to Asians and Asian groups. It is not equitable that virtually 0% goes to Asians and Asian groups.

FCPS would love to get more people applying to be teachers. The same goes for FCPD and FCFD.

Well, it’s possible that asians aren’t motivated to apply because they think their chances of getting these positions are too small and don’t want to invest time into it. May be board/county/state should introduce point systems and give booster points for all the under represented races (use ‘some’ proxy classification that implies race) and relax criteria a bit in all the government positions so more Asians and other minorities will apply in future! What do you think?

Sure. Go round up some applicants. We need more qualified teachers.

You see qualification is arbitrary. We can just dilute the requirements so that more people from all levels can easily qualify. If you understand the statistics, it is not difficult to come up with some new criteria that is overly represented by the specific under represented race/group and add some bonus points and also reduce the weightage to some existing criteria another race/group appears to be benefiting from. There is no need to go round up applicants, just publish the new selection criteria, applicants will come and there is no need to go door to door with a big drum.

I guess you understand I am being sarcastic. Its stupid and insulting to give 'quotas' and/or 'bonus' points to specific groups of people to boost their chances as if they can't compete fairly. You need remove barriers and provide incentives to that more people will become interested. For example, a while ago (in 2000s), I told my boss to hire more women and the response I got was - "I would love to hire more women, but we can't change our job requirements or choose a lesser qualified candidate. All we can do is to offer better benefits, flexible time etc so women feel more welcome here. Also, if there aren't many qualified candidates in pipeline, there isn't much we can do".

The point I am making here, we shouldn't reduce standards or introduce new selection critiera (quotas, bonus points etc) that favors one group over others. We should instead focus on generating interest, conduct seminars, teachers encourage good students from under represented schools to apply, offer extra classes/training, provide better transportation/assistance etc.

This is my take. I understand you may not necessarily agree with this, which is fine. Btw, we arguing in this channel doesn't change anything expect

DP. Again - we are talking about 13 year olds here, not adults. There is NO COMPARISON to be had between admitting kids to a school and hiring them for a job.

I don't belong to the TJ Alumni Action Group, but they are doing literally all of the things that are highlighted in bold above. Folks in the Coalition 4 TJ frequently talk a good game about those being things that we should do, but they don't actually do any of them.

Guess which group seems more sincere?

May be what FCPS is doing isn't enough to provide encouragement and may need to look into other ways to reach the kids. I am pretty sure its not the lack of talent that is keeping these kids away from STEM. This reminds me of few movies based on true stories such as 'stand and deliver', 'spare parts' etc., which serve as a beautiful example of what a kids can do with proper encouragement and support and not diluting standards. I am sure there are quite a few examples like these in all genres. Its possible to just encouragement isn't enough and may kids need financial assistance or may need to convince their parents to support kids etc.

Just an example, TSA (Technology Student Association - after school activity) conducts regional/national events each year at various locations. If selected, kids parents need to arrange for transportation, book hotel accommodations etc. I was talking to my spouse the other day, this is not fair to many kids as not all parents can actually afford this. On top of it, even getting to school level events also require a ton of support from parents, which not everyone afford (even if kids are interested) and schools aren't doing much about it. This is just a small example of lack of support offered by the schools and how do you believe that schools are doing everything they can to encourage URMs to pursue STEM. Anyways.

[Anonymous]

I am afraid all these quotas (or bonus points) eventually turn into crappy caste based reservation system in India. There was a famous statement from well known tech ceo - "India is the only country where people fight to get discriminated". In India, 50% of all available seats in higher education (ex: engineering, medical, management etc) are reserved and distributed among many different castes and different castes get different allocations. And on top, 33% is reserved to women. If this is not enough, the same reservation system continues into all the government positions. This is is not the end either - there is special channel and/or preference given in promotions with in the jobs to those who come from reservations also.

It becomes so obvious in colleges, in most cases, you can easily figure out which type of 'reservation/qutoa' the kid came from just by looking at their grades. In addition, kids automatically segregate themselves into different groups as many kids tend to associate themselves with other kids at their level intellectually (ex: in school projects etc). The same applies in government jobs, but it becomes even more demotivating to those who worked hard to get the job just to see some one who is obviously less talented with lesser qualifications, get the same job with reservation and gets promoted a lot faster than you do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am afraid all these quotas (or bonus points) eventually turn into crappy caste based reservation system in India. There was a famous statement from well known tech ceo - "India is the only country where people fight to get discriminated". In India, 50% of all available seats in higher education (ex: engineering, medical, management etc) are reserved and distributed among many different castes and different castes get different allocations. And on top, 33% is reserved to women. If this is not enough, the same reservation system continues into all the government positions. This is is not the end either - there is special channel and/or preference given in promotions with in the jobs to those who come from reservations also.

It becomes so obvious in colleges, in most cases, you can easily figure out which type of 'reservation/qutoa' the kid came from just by looking at their grades. In addition, kids automatically segregate themselves into different groups as many kids tend to associate themselves with other kids at their level intellectually (ex: in school projects etc). The same applies in government jobs, but it becomes even more demotivating to those who worked hard to get the job just to see some one who is obviously less talented with lesser qualifications, get the same job with reservation and gets promoted a lot faster than you do.

This is very true. Standards are actually lowered based on the castes for admissions in India. Most colleges follow rank based system for admissions and its fairly common to find some one who scored a rank of under 500 offered same exactly same admission as another who scored a rank of 40000 under reservation system i.e., think about treating 99 percentile same as 40 percentile. Also, when you apply for a government position, think about you requiring a minimum 3.75 GPA to even apply and some other applicant can easily get the same job even with 2.0 GPA. This is what indian reservation system turned into and politicians keep encouraging this and even add more types of 'quotas' and or find ways to increase the total allocations to even over 70% available to secure votes in elections. I hope we don't run into that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In addition, 20% of the FCPS teachers must be Asian to properly reflect the student population. 20% of the County employees must be Asians to reflect the demographics of the County.
20% of the County contracts and grants must go to Asians and Asian groups. It is not equitable that virtually 0% goes to Asians and Asian groups.

Let's not forget all the sport teams need to have 20% asian representation. It doesn't matter if there are better qualified athletes. Asian students deserve 20% of the spots in the name of equity

Why? The goal of an athletic team is to win games. There is no goal that TJ has that is expressly competitive in nature. The fact that it has been adjudged one of the top high schools in the country doesn't make that its goal.

Its goal is to educate talented students with an eye towards preparing them for a STEM or STEM-adjacent career. I would almost argue that the STEM community writ large would be better served by TJ taking really bright kids who are not sure what they want to do when they grow up and inspiring them to pursue STEM, rather than just taking kids whose parents have already decided that they will be doctors or engineers and giving them cool toys to play with for four years... especially when those kids are probably going to get to play with those cool toys in the form of summer internships anyway.

Oh boy, so many assumptions here! First, as a PP mentioned, team sports' main goals is to develop sportsmanship, encourage fitness,... Just as you said that TJ's original goal was not to become a top high school, sport teams were not originally created with the goal of winning games. Also, assuming that asian kids aren't as strong as others in some sports, would it not be good to allow them to participate? This will certainly benefit stronger athletes ie teach them empathy, the benefits of diversity and all that good stuff that many are saying TJ would benefit from if its students were more diverse. Lastly, why would you think that admitting asians in sport teams will cause the teams to become weaker? Maybe it's about time you look into your own prejudice and give some of these asian kids a chance to prove themselves just as you are advocating for the other minority groups to be given a chance to prove themselves academcally.

Lots to unpack here. Obviously there are a significant number of goals when it comes to scholastic sports that go above and beyond winning games, but the tryout process is designed to select players that will help the team win games. Asian students have an opportunity in those tryout process to show that they will be contributing members of the teams just like anyone else has, but coaches select players with an eye towards who will help them win games. And that's the key difference that people don't seem to understand. There are intramural opportunities for students to achieve many of the same ancillary goals that were mentioned earlier regarding physical fitness and camaraderie, but when it comes to interscholastic sports, the goal is to compete and win. If there are Asian players who can help teams win, I promise you coaches will select them - and they do in many sports.

That sort of goal does not exist with respect to the TJ admissions process. And that's fundamentally why the analogy doesn't work. You're trying to create equivalence where there is none.

If the "coaches select players with an eye towards who will help them win games" then they are not upholding the county mission statement for team sports. Maybe the selection process also needs an intervention from the school board like it did with TJ. I know Asian kids are more than welcome to try out, just like URM are welcome to apply for admission to TJ, but if one believes in diversity, then they can't pick and choose which departments benefit from diversity and which ones can do away with it. Why aren't you willing to lower the quality of a sport team but willing the lower the quality of a high school? (just for the sake of arguments, I am assuming like many PPs above that lowering admission standards will lower a sport team's strength as well as a high school academic strength).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In addition, 20% of the FCPS teachers must be Asian to properly reflect the student population. 20% of the County employees must be Asians to reflect the demographics of the County.
20% of the County contracts and grants must go to Asians and Asian groups. It is not equitable that virtually 0% goes to Asians and Asian groups.

Let's not forget all the sport teams need to have 20% asian representation. It doesn't matter if there are better qualified athletes. Asian students deserve 20% of the spots in the name of equity

Why? The goal of an athletic team is to win games. There is no goal that TJ has that is expressly competitive in nature. The fact that it has been adjudged one of the top high schools in the country doesn't make that its goal.

Its goal is to educate talented students with an eye towards preparing them for a STEM or STEM-adjacent career. I would almost argue that the STEM community writ large would be better served by TJ taking really bright kids who are not sure what they want to do when they grow up and inspiring them to pursue STEM, rather than just taking kids whose parents have already decided that they will be doctors or engineers and giving them cool toys to play with for four years... especially when those kids are probably going to get to play with those cool toys in the form of summer internships anyway.

Oh boy, so many assumptions here! First, as a PP mentioned, team sports' main goals is to develop sportsmanship, encourage fitness,... Just as you said that TJ's original goal was not to become a top high school, sport teams were not originally created with the goal of winning games. Also, assuming that asian kids aren't as strong as others in some sports, would it not be good to allow them to participate? This will certainly benefit stronger athletes ie teach them empathy, the benefits of diversity and all that good stuff that many are saying TJ would benefit from if its students were more diverse. Lastly, why would you think that admitting asians in sport teams will cause the teams to become weaker? Maybe it's about time you look into your own prejudice and give some of these asian kids a chance to prove themselves just as you are advocating for the other minority groups to be given a chance to prove themselves academcally.

Lots to unpack here. Obviously there are a significant number of goals when it comes to scholastic sports that go above and beyond winning games, but the tryout process is designed to select players that will help the team win games. Asian students have an opportunity in those tryout process to show that they will be contributing members of the teams just like anyone else has, but coaches select players with an eye towards who will help them win games. And that's the key difference that people don't seem to understand. There are intramural opportunities for students to achieve many of the same ancillary goals that were mentioned earlier regarding physical fitness and camaraderie, but when it comes to interscholastic sports, the goal is to compete and win. If there are Asian players who can help teams win, I promise you coaches will select them - and they do in many sports.

That sort of goal does not exist with respect to the TJ admissions process. And that's fundamentally why the analogy doesn't work. You're trying to create equivalence where there is none.

If the "coaches select players with an eye towards who will help them win games" then they are not upholding the county mission statement for team sports. Maybe the selection process also needs an intervention from the school board like it did with TJ. I know Asian kids are more than welcome to try out, just like URM are welcome to apply for admission to TJ, but if one believes in diversity, then they can't pick and choose which departments benefit from diversity and which ones can do away with it. Why aren't you willing to lower the quality of a sport team but willing the lower the quality of a high school? (just for the sake of arguments, I am assuming like many PPs above that lowering admission standards will lower a sport team's strength as well as a high school academic strength).

Say what you want about upholding the mission statement, but a good way for a coach to get fired is to lose too many games.

But again - you're trying to create an equivalence between sports and academics, and there simply isn't one.

There is no end of peer-reviewed research that confirms that legitimate experiential diversity in the academic environment benefits students across a wide range of metrics. That is a generally accepted truth in academia - so much so that citation in this case would be akin to proving that 2+2=4. There is no such research that legitimate experiential diversity improves sports performance metrics. And besides, the best way to create more diversity in scholastic athletic teams is to have a more diverse student body to choose from anyways. TJ's athletic teams are a heck of a lot more Asian than they were 15 years ago, that's for sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In addition, 20% of the FCPS teachers must be Asian to properly reflect the student population. 20% of the County employees must be Asians to reflect the demographics of the County.
20% of the County contracts and grants must go to Asians and Asian groups. It is not equitable that virtually 0% goes to Asians and Asian groups.

Let's not forget all the sport teams need to have 20% asian representation. It doesn't matter if there are better qualified athletes. Asian students deserve 20% of the spots in the name of equity

Why? The goal of an athletic team is to win games. There is no goal that TJ has that is expressly competitive in nature. The fact that it has been adjudged one of the top high schools in the country doesn't make that its goal.

Its goal is to educate talented students with an eye towards preparing them for a STEM or STEM-adjacent career. I would almost argue that the STEM community writ large would be better served by TJ taking really bright kids who are not sure what they want to do when they grow up and inspiring them to pursue STEM, rather than just taking kids whose parents have already decided that they will be doctors or engineers and giving them cool toys to play with for four years... especially when those kids are probably going to get to play with those cool toys in the form of summer internships anyway.

Oh boy, so many assumptions here! First, as a PP mentioned, team sports' main goals is to develop sportsmanship, encourage fitness,... Just as you said that TJ's original goal was not to become a top high school, sport teams were not originally created with the goal of winning games. Also, assuming that asian kids aren't as strong as others in some sports, would it not be good to allow them to participate? This will certainly benefit stronger athletes ie teach them empathy, the benefits of diversity and all that good stuff that many are saying TJ would benefit from if its students were more diverse. Lastly, why would you think that admitting asians in sport teams will cause the teams to become weaker? Maybe it's about time you look into your own prejudice and give some of these asian kids a chance to prove themselves just as you are advocating for the other minority groups to be given a chance to prove themselves academcally.

Lots to unpack here. Obviously there are a significant number of goals when it comes to scholastic sports that go above and beyond winning games, but the tryout process is designed to select players that will help the team win games. Asian students have an opportunity in those tryout process to show that they will be contributing members of the teams just like anyone else has, but coaches select players with an eye towards who will help them win games. And that's the key difference that people don't seem to understand. There are intramural opportunities for students to achieve many of the same ancillary goals that were mentioned earlier regarding physical fitness and camaraderie, but when it comes to interscholastic sports, the goal is to compete and win. If there are Asian players who can help teams win, I promise you coaches will select them - and they do in many sports.

That sort of goal does not exist with respect to the TJ admissions process. And that's fundamentally why the analogy doesn't work. You're trying to create equivalence where there is none.

If the "coaches select players with an eye towards who will help them win games" then they are not upholding the county mission statement for team sports. Maybe the selection process also needs an intervention from the school board like it did with TJ. I know Asian kids are more than welcome to try out, just like URM are welcome to apply for admission to TJ, but if one believes in diversity, then they can't pick and choose which departments benefit from diversity and which ones can do away with it. Why aren't you willing to lower the quality of a sport team but willing the lower the quality of a high school? (just for the sake of arguments, I am assuming like many PPs above that lowering admission standards will lower a sport team's strength as well as a high school academic strength).

Say what you want about upholding the mission statement, but a good way for a coach to get fired is to lose too many games.

But again - you're trying to create an equivalence between sports and academics, and there simply isn't one.

There is no end of peer-reviewed research that confirms that legitimate experiential diversity in the academic environment benefits students across a wide range of metrics. That is a generally accepted truth in academia - so much so that citation in this case would be akin to proving that 2+2=4. There is no such research that legitimate experiential diversity improves sports performance metrics. And besides, the best way to create more diversity in scholastic athletic teams is to have a more diverse student body to choose from anyways. TJ's athletic teams are a heck of a lot more Asian than they were 15 years ago, that's for sure.

Again, coaches being fired for losing too many games is a result of the school board not willing to disrupt the status quo and demand the diversity in sports that they are demanding of TJ. If every team needs to meet a racial quota, then its relative performance compared to other teams (that also need to meet the quota) won't change much and a particular team won't lose/win more games than it used to before the quota takes effects. The only difference is now we have diversity in sport teams. Wouldn't that be great?

You don't see an equivalence between sports and academics because you're not willing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In addition, 20% of the FCPS teachers must be Asian to properly reflect the student population. 20% of the County employees must be Asians to reflect the demographics of the County.
20% of the County contracts and grants must go to Asians and Asian groups. It is not equitable that virtually 0% goes to Asians and Asian groups.

Let's not forget all the sport teams need to have 20% asian representation. It doesn't matter if there are better qualified athletes. Asian students deserve 20% of the spots in the name of equity

Why? The goal of an athletic team is to win games. There is no goal that TJ has that is expressly competitive in nature. The fact that it has been adjudged one of the top high schools in the country doesn't make that its goal.

Its goal is to educate talented students with an eye towards preparing them for a STEM or STEM-adjacent career. I would almost argue that the STEM community writ large would be better served by TJ taking really bright kids who are not sure what they want to do when they grow up and inspiring them to pursue STEM, rather than just taking kids whose parents have already decided that they will be doctors or engineers and giving them cool toys to play with for four years... especially when those kids are probably going to get to play with those cool toys in the form of summer internships anyway.

Oh boy, so many assumptions here! First, as a PP mentioned, team sports' main goals is to develop sportsmanship, encourage fitness,... Just as you said that TJ's original goal was not to become a top high school, sport teams were not originally created with the goal of winning games. Also, assuming that asian kids aren't as strong as others in some sports, would it not be good to allow them to participate? This will certainly benefit stronger athletes ie teach them empathy, the benefits of diversity and all that good stuff that many are saying TJ would benefit from if its students were more diverse. Lastly, why would you think that admitting asians in sport teams will cause the teams to become weaker? Maybe it's about time you look into your own prejudice and give some of these asian kids a chance to prove themselves just as you are advocating for the other minority groups to be given a chance to prove themselves academcally.

Lots to unpack here. Obviously there are a significant number of goals when it comes to scholastic sports that go above and beyond winning games, but the tryout process is designed to select players that will help the team win games. Asian students have an opportunity in those tryout process to show that they will be contributing members of the teams just like anyone else has, but coaches select players with an eye towards who will help them win games. And that's the key difference that people don't seem to understand. There are intramural opportunities for students to achieve many of the same ancillary goals that were mentioned earlier regarding physical fitness and camaraderie, but when it comes to interscholastic sports, the goal is to compete and win. If there are Asian players who can help teams win, I promise you coaches will select them - and they do in many sports.

That sort of goal does not exist with respect to the TJ admissions process. And that's fundamentally why the analogy doesn't work. You're trying to create equivalence where there is none.

If the "coaches select players with an eye towards who will help them win games" then they are not upholding the county mission statement for team sports. Maybe the selection process also needs an intervention from the school board like it did with TJ. I know Asian kids are more than welcome to try out, just like URM are welcome to apply for admission to TJ, but if one believes in diversity, then they can't pick and choose which departments benefit from diversity and which ones can do away with it. Why aren't you willing to lower the quality of a sport team but willing the lower the quality of a high school? (just for the sake of arguments, I am assuming like many PPs above that lowering admission standards will lower a sport team's strength as well as a high school academic strength).

Say what you want about upholding the mission statement, but a good way for a coach to get fired is to lose too many games.

But again - you're trying to create an equivalence between sports and academics, and there simply isn't one.

There is no end of peer-reviewed research that confirms that legitimate experiential diversity in the academic environment benefits students across a wide range of metrics. That is a generally accepted truth in academia - so much so that citation in this case would be akin to proving that 2+2=4. There is no such research that legitimate experiential diversity improves sports performance metrics. And besides, the best way to create more diversity in scholastic athletic teams is to have a more diverse student body to choose from anyways. TJ's athletic teams are a heck of a lot more Asian than they were 15 years ago, that's for sure.

Again, coaches being fired for losing too many games is a result of the school board not willing to disrupt the status quo and demand the diversity in sports that they are demanding of TJ. If every team needs to meet a racial quota, then its relative performance compared to other teams (that also need to meet the quota) won't change much and a particular team won't lose/win more games than it used to before the quota takes effects. The only difference is now we have diversity in sport teams. Wouldn't that be great?

You don't see an equivalence between sports and academics because you're not willing

No… I don’t see an equivalence because there is no equivalence. There is no aspect of TJ’s mission that includes winning any contest or competition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In addition, 20% of the FCPS teachers must be Asian to properly reflect the student population. 20% of the County employees must be Asians to reflect the demographics of the County.
20% of the County contracts and grants must go to Asians and Asian groups. It is not equitable that virtually 0% goes to Asians and Asian groups.

Let's not forget all the sport teams need to have 20% asian representation. It doesn't matter if there are better qualified athletes. Asian students deserve 20% of the spots in the name of equity

Why? The goal of an athletic team is to win games. There is no goal that TJ has that is expressly competitive in nature. The fact that it has been adjudged one of the top high schools in the country doesn't make that its goal.

Its goal is to educate talented students with an eye towards preparing them for a STEM or STEM-adjacent career. I would almost argue that the STEM community writ large would be better served by TJ taking really bright kids who are not sure what they want to do when they grow up and inspiring them to pursue STEM, rather than just taking kids whose parents have already decided that they will be doctors or engineers and giving them cool toys to play with for four years... especially when those kids are probably going to get to play with those cool toys in the form of summer internships anyway.

Oh boy, so many assumptions here! First, as a PP mentioned, team sports' main goals is to develop sportsmanship, encourage fitness,... Just as you said that TJ's original goal was not to become a top high school, sport teams were not originally created with the goal of winning games. Also, assuming that asian kids aren't as strong as others in some sports, would it not be good to allow them to participate? This will certainly benefit stronger athletes ie teach them empathy, the benefits of diversity and all that good stuff that many are saying TJ would benefit from if its students were more diverse. Lastly, why would you think that admitting asians in sport teams will cause the teams to become weaker? Maybe it's about time you look into your own prejudice and give some of these asian kids a chance to prove themselves just as you are advocating for the other minority groups to be given a chance to prove themselves academcally.

Lots to unpack here. Obviously there are a significant number of goals when it comes to scholastic sports that go above and beyond winning games, but the tryout process is designed to select players that will help the team win games. Asian students have an opportunity in those tryout process to show that they will be contributing members of the teams just like anyone else has, but coaches select players with an eye towards who will help them win games. And that's the key difference that people don't seem to understand. There are intramural opportunities for students to achieve many of the same ancillary goals that were mentioned earlier regarding physical fitness and camaraderie, but when it comes to interscholastic sports, the goal is to compete and win. If there are Asian players who can help teams win, I promise you coaches will select them - and they do in many sports.

That sort of goal does not exist with respect to the TJ admissions process. And that's fundamentally why the analogy doesn't work. You're trying to create equivalence where there is none.

If the "coaches select players with an eye towards who will help them win games" then they are not upholding the county mission statement for team sports. Maybe the selection process also needs an intervention from the school board like it did with TJ. I know Asian kids are more than welcome to try out, just like URM are welcome to apply for admission to TJ, but if one believes in diversity, then they can't pick and choose which departments benefit from diversity and which ones can do away with it. Why aren't you willing to lower the quality of a sport team but willing the lower the quality of a high school? (just for the sake of arguments, I am assuming like many PPs above that lowering admission standards will lower a sport team's strength as well as a high school academic strength).

Say what you want about upholding the mission statement, but a good way for a coach to get fired is to lose too many games.

But again - you're trying to create an equivalence between sports and academics, and there simply isn't one.

There is no end of peer-reviewed research that confirms that legitimate experiential diversity in the academic environment benefits students across a wide range of metrics. That is a generally accepted truth in academia - so much so that citation in this case would be akin to proving that 2+2=4. There is no such research that legitimate experiential diversity improves sports performance metrics. And besides, the best way to create more diversity in scholastic athletic teams is to have a more diverse student body to choose from anyways. TJ's athletic teams are a heck of a lot more Asian than they were 15 years ago, that's for sure.

Again, coaches being fired for losing too many games is a result of the school board not willing to disrupt the status quo and demand the diversity in sports that they are demanding of TJ. If every team needs to meet a racial quota, then its relative performance compared to other teams (that also need to meet the quota) won't change much and a particular team won't lose/win more games than it used to before the quota takes effects. The only difference is now we have diversity in sport teams. Wouldn't that be great?

You don't see an equivalence between sports and academics because you're not willing

No… I don’t see an equivalence because there is no equivalence. There is no aspect of TJ’s mission that includes winning any contest or competition.

Show me where fcps says that school team sports' mission is to win competitions. The goal is to increase fitness, foster camaraderie, sportsmanship...and winning/losing is a result of the competitive nature of the activity. Of course, everyone wants to win. Same for any high school. The goal is to educate, but we also have school rankings and academic teams. None of them will openly say that they make it their mission to win competitions or be #1 but it sure is an unspoken goal just like in school sports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In addition, 20% of the FCPS teachers must be Asian to properly reflect the student population. 20% of the County employees must be Asians to reflect the demographics of the County.
20% of the County contracts and grants must go to Asians and Asian groups. It is not equitable that virtually 0% goes to Asians and Asian groups.

Let's not forget all the sport teams need to have 20% asian representation. It doesn't matter if there are better qualified athletes. Asian students deserve 20% of the spots in the name of equity

Why? The goal of an athletic team is to win games. There is no goal that TJ has that is expressly competitive in nature. The fact that it has been adjudged one of the top high schools in the country doesn't make that its goal.

Its goal is to educate talented students with an eye towards preparing them for a STEM or STEM-adjacent career. I would almost argue that the STEM community writ large would be better served by TJ taking really bright kids who are not sure what they want to do when they grow up and inspiring them to pursue STEM, rather than just taking kids whose parents have already decided that they will be doctors or engineers and giving them cool toys to play with for four years... especially when those kids are probably going to get to play with those cool toys in the form of summer internships anyway.

Oh boy, so many assumptions here! First, as a PP mentioned, team sports' main goals is to develop sportsmanship, encourage fitness,... Just as you said that TJ's original goal was not to become a top high school, sport teams were not originally created with the goal of winning games. Also, assuming that asian kids aren't as strong as others in some sports, would it not be good to allow them to participate? This will certainly benefit stronger athletes ie teach them empathy, the benefits of diversity and all that good stuff that many are saying TJ would benefit from if its students were more diverse. Lastly, why would you think that admitting asians in sport teams will cause the teams to become weaker? Maybe it's about time you look into your own prejudice and give some of these asian kids a chance to prove themselves just as you are advocating for the other minority groups to be given a chance to prove themselves academcally.

Lots to unpack here. Obviously there are a significant number of goals when it comes to scholastic sports that go above and beyond winning games, but the tryout process is designed to select players that will help the team win games. Asian students have an opportunity in those tryout process to show that they will be contributing members of the teams just like anyone else has, but coaches select players with an eye towards who will help them win games. And that's the key difference that people don't seem to understand. There are intramural opportunities for students to achieve many of the same ancillary goals that were mentioned earlier regarding physical fitness and camaraderie, but when it comes to interscholastic sports, the goal is to compete and win. If there are Asian players who can help teams win, I promise you coaches will select them - and they do in many sports.

That sort of goal does not exist with respect to the TJ admissions process. And that's fundamentally why the analogy doesn't work. You're trying to create equivalence where there is none.

If the "coaches select players with an eye towards who will help them win games" then they are not upholding the county mission statement for team sports. Maybe the selection process also needs an intervention from the school board like it did with TJ. I know Asian kids are more than welcome to try out, just like URM are welcome to apply for admission to TJ, but if one believes in diversity, then they can't pick and choose which departments benefit from diversity and which ones can do away with it. Why aren't you willing to lower the quality of a sport team but willing the lower the quality of a high school? (just for the sake of arguments, I am assuming like many PPs above that lowering admission standards will lower a sport team's strength as well as a high school academic strength).

Say what you want about upholding the mission statement, but a good way for a coach to get fired is to lose too many games.

But again - you're trying to create an equivalence between sports and academics, and there simply isn't one.

There is no end of peer-reviewed research that confirms that legitimate experiential diversity in the academic environment benefits students across a wide range of metrics. That is a generally accepted truth in academia - so much so that citation in this case would be akin to proving that 2+2=4. There is no such research that legitimate experiential diversity improves sports performance metrics. And besides, the best way to create more diversity in scholastic athletic teams is to have a more diverse student body to choose from anyways. TJ's athletic teams are a heck of a lot more Asian than they were 15 years ago, that's for sure.

Again, coaches being fired for losing too many games is a result of the school board not willing to disrupt the status quo and demand the diversity in sports that they are demanding of TJ. If every team needs to meet a racial quota, then its relative performance compared to other teams (that also need to meet the quota) won't change much and a particular team won't lose/win more games than it used to before the quota takes effects. The only difference is now we have diversity in sport teams. Wouldn't that be great?

You don't see an equivalence between sports and academics because you're not willing

No… I don’t see an equivalence because there is no equivalence. There is no aspect of TJ’s mission that includes winning any contest or competition.

You are correct. There is none. This is just an analogy which is being misapplied to mislead simpletons and support their bias.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In addition, 20% of the FCPS teachers must be Asian to properly reflect the student population. 20% of the County employees must be Asians to reflect the demographics of the County.
20% of the County contracts and grants must go to Asians and Asian groups. It is not equitable that virtually 0% goes to Asians and Asian groups.

Let's not forget all the sport teams need to have 20% asian representation. It doesn't matter if there are better qualified athletes. Asian students deserve 20% of the spots in the name of equity

Why? The goal of an athletic team is to win games. There is no goal that TJ has that is expressly competitive in nature. The fact that it has been adjudged one of the top high schools in the country doesn't make that its goal.

Its goal is to educate talented students with an eye towards preparing them for a STEM or STEM-adjacent career. I would almost argue that the STEM community writ large would be better served by TJ taking really bright kids who are not sure what they want to do when they grow up and inspiring them to pursue STEM, rather than just taking kids whose parents have already decided that they will be doctors or engineers and giving them cool toys to play with for four years... especially when those kids are probably going to get to play with those cool toys in the form of summer internships anyway.

Oh boy, so many assumptions here! First, as a PP mentioned, team sports' main goals is to develop sportsmanship, encourage fitness,... Just as you said that TJ's original goal was not to become a top high school, sport teams were not originally created with the goal of winning games. Also, assuming that asian kids aren't as strong as others in some sports, would it not be good to allow them to participate? This will certainly benefit stronger athletes ie teach them empathy, the benefits of diversity and all that good stuff that many are saying TJ would benefit from if its students were more diverse. Lastly, why would you think that admitting asians in sport teams will cause the teams to become weaker? Maybe it's about time you look into your own prejudice and give some of these asian kids a chance to prove themselves just as you are advocating for the other minority groups to be given a chance to prove themselves academcally.

Lots to unpack here. Obviously there are a significant number of goals when it comes to scholastic sports that go above and beyond winning games, but the tryout process is designed to select players that will help the team win games. Asian students have an opportunity in those tryout process to show that they will be contributing members of the teams just like anyone else has, but coaches select players with an eye towards who will help them win games. And that's the key difference that people don't seem to understand. There are intramural opportunities for students to achieve many of the same ancillary goals that were mentioned earlier regarding physical fitness and camaraderie, but when it comes to interscholastic sports, the goal is to compete and win. If there are Asian players who can help teams win, I promise you coaches will select them - and they do in many sports.

That sort of goal does not exist with respect to the TJ admissions process. And that's fundamentally why the analogy doesn't work. You're trying to create equivalence where there is none.

If the "coaches select players with an eye towards who will help them win games" then they are not upholding the county mission statement for team sports. Maybe the selection process also needs an intervention from the school board like it did with TJ. I know Asian kids are more than welcome to try out, just like URM are welcome to apply for admission to TJ, but if one believes in diversity, then they can't pick and choose which departments benefit from diversity and which ones can do away with it. Why aren't you willing to lower the quality of a sport team but willing the lower the quality of a high school? (just for the sake of arguments, I am assuming like many PPs above that lowering admission standards will lower a sport team's strength as well as a high school academic strength).

Say what you want about upholding the mission statement, but a good way for a coach to get fired is to lose too many games.

But again - you're trying to create an equivalence between sports and academics, and there simply isn't one.

There is no end of peer-reviewed research that confirms that legitimate experiential diversity in the academic environment benefits students across a wide range of metrics. That is a generally accepted truth in academia - so much so that citation in this case would be akin to proving that 2+2=4. There is no such research that legitimate experiential diversity improves sports performance metrics. And besides, the best way to create more diversity in scholastic athletic teams is to have a more diverse student body to choose from anyways. TJ's athletic teams are a heck of a lot more Asian than they were 15 years ago, that's for sure.

Again, coaches being fired for losing too many games is a result of the school board not willing to disrupt the status quo and demand the diversity in sports that they are demanding of TJ. If every team needs to meet a racial quota, then its relative performance compared to other teams (that also need to meet the quota) won't change much and a particular team won't lose/win more games than it used to before the quota takes effects. The only difference is now we have diversity in sport teams. Wouldn't that be great?

You don't see an equivalence between sports and academics because you're not willing

No… I don’t see an equivalence because there is no equivalence. There is no aspect of TJ’s mission that includes winning any contest or competition.

Show me where fcps says that school team sports' mission is to win competitions. The goal is to increase fitness, foster camaraderie, sportsmanship...and winning/losing is a result of the competitive nature of the activity. Of course, everyone wants to win. Same for any high school. The goal is to educate, but we also have school rankings and academic teams. None of them will openly say that they make it their mission to win competitions or be #1 but it sure is an unspoken goal just like in school sports.

Go into any high school and look for the years that teams had great camaraderie or the school records for sportsmanship. Now look for the years that the teams won state championships and the list of school record holders. My guess is that you will have a much easier time finding one than the other.