Athletes have such an edge

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes I know those percentiles. At a top school like Harvard, if you're in the 93rd percentile, it's pretty apparent. Like you're taking different classes (which is what happens). I mean do you really think 93rd percentile academic ability is reasonable at Harvard?

Yes, I absolutely do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes I know those percentiles. At a top school like Harvard, if you're in the 93rd percentile, it's pretty apparent. Like you're taking different classes (which is what happens). I mean do you really think 93rd percentile academic ability is reasonable at Harvard?

Yes, I absolutely do.

As an example- 99th % in the NYC marathon is 2:49. 93% is 3:20.
These people are running different races. While the 93% finisher is a great runner, they cannot even see the 99% finisher.
Same in academics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes I know those percentiles. At a top school like Harvard, if you're in the 93rd percentile, it's pretty apparent. Like you're taking different classes (which is what happens). I mean do you really think 93rd percentile academic ability is reasonable at Harvard?

Yes, I absolutely do.

As an example- 99th % in the NYC marathon is 2:49. 93% is 3:20.
These people are running different races. While the 93% finisher is a great runner, they cannot even see the 99% finisher.
Same in academics.

Do you have any data showing that some in the 93rd percentile either can't handle work at Harvard or will end up being less successful than someone in the 99th percentile?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most athletes who are successful in their chosen sport spends hours and hours of training and have the discipline & work ethics to be successful.

Having a specific skill - a sport, musical instrument, singing, dancing is MUCH more rare than a kid with high stats.

Scarcity creates demand thus colleges will fight over an athlete much more than a kid with 1600 SAT/4.0+ GPA.

I have one kid who is academic and another who is athletic but I guild them not to be defined by it. You are more than your grades, school or sport.

Be a good person and kind to others!

I would be curious as to the actual number of 1600’s vs. National Level D1 Athletes. My bet would be that the 1600 score is rarer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most athletes who are successful in their chosen sport spends hours and hours of training and have the discipline & work ethics to be successful.

Having a specific skill - a sport, musical instrument, singing, dancing is MUCH more rare than a kid with high stats.

Scarcity creates demand thus colleges will fight over an athlete much more than a kid with 1600 SAT/4.0+ GPA.

I have one kid who is academic and another who is athletic but I guild them not to be defined by it. You are more than your grades, school or sport.

Be a good person and kind to others!

I would be curious as to the actual number of 1600’s vs. National Level D1 Athletes. My bet would be that the 1600 score is rarer.

1600 score About 1%, D1 athletes approximately 2-3% depending on sport.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes I know those percentiles. At a top school like Harvard, if you're in the 93rd percentile, it's pretty apparent. Like you're taking different classes (which is what happens). I mean do you really think 93rd percentile academic ability is reasonable at Harvard?

Yes, I absolutely do.

As an example- 99th % in the NYC marathon is 2:49. 93% is 3:20.
These people are running different races. While the 93% finisher is a great runner, they cannot even see the 99% finisher.
Same in academics.

Do you have any data showing that some in the 93rd percentile either can't handle work at Harvard or will end up being less successful than someone in the 99th percentile?

The 93 percenter finishes the marathon..heck do does the 99th percentile one that comes crawling in. The 99 percentile is elite and is a better marathoner than the slower finishers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes I know those percentiles. At a top school like Harvard, if you're in the 93rd percentile, it's pretty apparent. Like you're taking different classes (which is what happens). I mean do you really think 93rd percentile academic ability is reasonable at Harvard?

Yes, I absolutely do.

As an example- 99th % in the NYC marathon is 2:49. 93% is 3:20.
These people are running different races. While the 93% finisher is a great runner, they cannot even see the 99% finisher.
Same in academics.

Do you have any data showing that some in the 93rd percentile either can't handle work at Harvard or will end up being less successful than someone in the 99th percentile?

The 93 percenter finishes the marathon..heck do does the 99th percentile one that comes crawling in. The 99 percentile is elite and is a better marathoner than the slower finishers.

Meaning the top finishers are elite...the top 1 percent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes I know those percentiles. At a top school like Harvard, if you're in the 93rd percentile, it's pretty apparent. Like you're taking different classes (which is what happens). I mean do you really think 93rd percentile academic ability is reasonable at Harvard?

Yes, I absolutely do.

As an example- 99th % in the NYC marathon is 2:49. 93% is 3:20.
These people are running different races. While the 93% finisher is a great runner, they cannot even see the 99% finisher.
Same in academics.

Do you have any data showing that some in the 93rd percentile either can't handle work at Harvard or will end up being less successful than someone in the 99th percentile?

The 93 percenter finishes the marathon..heck do does the 99th percentile one that comes crawling in. The 99 percentile is elite and is a better marathoner than the slower finishers.

ok, that makes great sense in your analogy. Do you have an data showing that a 93rd percentile high school student performs measurably worse in college than a 99th percentile highschool student

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes I know those percentiles. At a top school like Harvard, if you're in the 93rd percentile, it's pretty apparent. Like you're taking different classes (which is what happens). I mean do you really think 93rd percentile academic ability is reasonable at Harvard?

Yes, I absolutely do.

As an example- 99th % in the NYC marathon is 2:49. 93% is 3:20.
These people are running different races. While the 93% finisher is a great runner, they cannot even see the 99% finisher.
Same in academics.

Do you have any data showing that some in the 93rd percentile either can't handle work at Harvard or will end up being less successful than someone in the 99th percentile?

The 93 percenter finishes the marathon..heck do does the 99th percentile one that comes crawling in. The 99 percentile is elite and is a better marathoner than the slower finishers.

ok, that makes great sense in your analogy. Do you have an data showing that a 93rd percentile high school student performs measurably worse in college than a 99th percentile highschool student

It is ok for there to be places for the top students to study. Relax.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All I know is, at my kids school, the seniors who have been accepted to top schools are also top students. I don't see lesser students being given a pass to top schools because of sports.

The lesser students are being actively discouraged from applying to top schools by the college counseling office.

[Anonymous]

Clearly the responses to this post are one one side or the other.

Personally, I don’t think it’s fair. Life not fair - and this lumps into that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes I know those percentiles. At a top school like Harvard, if you're in the 93rd percentile, it's pretty apparent. Like you're taking different classes (which is what happens). I mean do you really think 93rd percentile academic ability is reasonable at Harvard?

Yes, I absolutely do.

As an example- 99th % in the NYC marathon is 2:49. 93% is 3:20.
These people are running different races. While the 93% finisher is a great runner, they cannot even see the 99% finisher.
Same in academics.

Do you have any data showing that some in the 93rd percentile either can't handle work at Harvard or will end up being less successful than someone in the 99th percentile?

The 93 percenter finishes the marathon..heck do does the 99th percentile one that comes crawling in. The 99 percentile is elite and is a better marathoner than the slower finishers.

ok, that makes great sense in your analogy. Do you have an data showing that a 93rd percentile high school student performs measurably worse in college than a 99th percentile highschool student

It is ok for there to be places for the top students to study. Relax.

To boil it down, jocks who are in the 93rd percentile don't belong at certain schools with 99th percentile students, but you have zero outcome data to validate that view?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most athletes who are successful in their chosen sport spends hours and hours of training and have the discipline & work ethics to be successful.

Having a specific skill - a sport, musical instrument, singing, dancing is MUCH more rare than a kid with high stats.

Scarcity creates demand thus colleges will fight over an athlete much more than a kid with 1600 SAT/4.0+ GPA.

I have one kid who is academic and another who is athletic but I guild them not to be defined by it. You are more than your grades, school or sport.

Be a good person and kind to others!

I would be curious as to the actual number of 1600’s vs. National Level D1 Athletes. My bet would be that the 1600 score is rarer.

When my DD scored a 2400 a few years ago, the estimate was around 500-600 perfect SAT scorers and around 1500 perfect ACT scorers. However, I’m assuming even the craziest poster on this thread doesn’t think there is a huge gulf in academic ability between a 1500 or 1550 scorer and a 1600 one? Then those totals increase a lot. Also, a significant percentage of D1 athletes either walked on after getting accepted or, if recruited, did not receive and special admissions consideration. Coaches only have a small number of semi-guaranteed slots in non-revenue sports, and the rest of the kids that they hope to add to the team have to make it in on their own. So it would be tough to make this comparison even if you think high SATs are a reasonable proxy for high academic ability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes I know those percentiles. At a top school like Harvard, if you're in the 93rd percentile, it's pretty apparent. Like you're taking different classes (which is what happens). I mean do you really think 93rd percentile academic ability is reasonable at Harvard?

Yes, I absolutely do.

As an example- 99th % in the NYC marathon is 2:49. 93% is 3:20.
These people are running different races. While the 93% finisher is a great runner, they cannot even see the 99% finisher.
Same in academics.

Do you have any data showing that some in the 93rd percentile either can't handle work at Harvard or will end up being less successful than someone in the 99th percentile?

The 93 percenter finishes the marathon..heck do does the 99th percentile one that comes crawling in. The 99 percentile is elite and is a better marathoner than the slower finishers.

ok, that makes great sense in your analogy. Do you have an data showing that a 93rd percentile high school student performs measurably worse in college than a 99th percentile highschool student

It is ok for there to be places for the top students to study. Relax.

Agree, and to the question, there's an abundance of data connecting SATs and various measures of outcomes. As I'm sure you know, studies focus on differences across the entire spectrum, rather than within the top decile of scores. That said, I'm pretty intimately aware of the massive delta in ability across Harvard students. I'd certainly rather hire at one end of that than the other (and I do).

As far as success, that's an interesting question. It's pretty uncontroversial that the Harvard brand is going to boost career prospects to the point where perhaps these differences become harder to measure. That said, if Harvard takes the attitude that they can admit whoever because they're going to be successful anyway, well that's going to ultimately dilute the brand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes I know those percentiles. At a top school like Harvard, if you're in the 93rd percentile, it's pretty apparent. Like you're taking different classes (which is what happens). I mean do you really think 93rd percentile academic ability is reasonable at Harvard?

Yes, I absolutely do.

As an example- 99th % in the NYC marathon is 2:49. 93% is 3:20.
These people are running different races. While the 93% finisher is a great runner, they cannot even see the 99% finisher.
Same in academics.

Do you have any data showing that some in the 93rd percentile either can't handle work at Harvard or will end up being less successful than someone in the 99th percentile?

The 93 percenter finishes the marathon..heck do does the 99th percentile one that comes crawling in. The 99 percentile is elite and is a better marathoner than the slower finishers.

ok, that makes great sense in your analogy. Do you have an data showing that a 93rd percentile high school student performs measurably worse in college than a 99th percentile highschool student

It is ok for there to be places for the top students to study. Relax.

To boil it down, jocks who are in the 93rd percentile don't belong at certain schools with 99th percentile students, but you have zero outcome data to validate that view?

Not everyone can be at the top of the class and the schools seem to want to continue to recruit jocks. If one kid wants to spend hours a day running or swimming or whatever and another wants to spend that time on academic work, the world will continue to spin.