Has Duran gone mad? (APS)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Daycare workers have been working with children for months. They are working with young children much more closely than any school teacher would ever work with children in a classroom.

Teachers aren’t more susceptible they simply are more organized and better paid so they feel they are entitled to teach from home and those poor people who have low wage jobs like daycare deserve to work because they get an education, they didn’t work as hard, etc

Every single time you think it’s so dangerous for teachers to be in a classroom where they will have minimal one on one contact with children stop and remember that everyday daycare workers are working with young children - holding them, helping them eat, helping them wash hands and so on - and everyday they come in contact with those children’s parents and are in a building all day with other adults. And then remember that there are kids that are 4,5 and even 6 because yes those ages are in daycares right now and are the same ages of children that teaches argued they can’t be around.

The argument teachers are making is they are “better than” so how dare they be expected to work. I have no respect for any of the teachers. I have even less respect for those who champion their faux cause.

I’m a special Ed teacher. I do all of that with older children. I’m not pitted against daycare teachers. I want them to be safe too. The main difference between my job and theirs is that they have the power to remove families from their facility, we do not. It’s the same with private school, many who have a code of conduct for families. I’m willing to teach in person but acknowledge the difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are you teachers so special again? 50 percent of our country’s teachers are back in the classroom. You teachers who want to stay home despite seeing the mental health and educational harms to kids are a disgrace. You all should just resign and let the dedicated lot of young teachers start helping them kids recover from this tragedy

Here in Arlington, dozens of schools been open in person since August. Those teachers have gone back to the classroom to teach. No issues.

There are not dozens of non-APS schools in Arlington.

If you include private, catholic and daycare/preschool, yes there are dozens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok so back to the real question (though the debates about how teachers deserve/don’t deserve respect are remarkably entertaining in that they are so ludicrous)...
No one thinks going back in the height of the pandemic is a good idea. The metrics are all red.
How do we get aps to see that there is a silent majority that does want to go back but not until metrics are met?

Well, you could start by finding the science that supports that. The most up to date research and recommendations support going back and have lambasted the arbitrary metrics crafted by politicians and teachers unions (e.g., NYC’s 3% rate). Masks and cohorts have demonstrated to be more than sufficient across the county to significantly mitigate the risk of transmission. https://globalepidemics.org/2020/12/18/schools-and-the-path-to-zero-strategies-for-pandemic-resilience-in-the-face-of-high-community-spread/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s no good data on spread because schools that are open (other than private) aren’t testing their populations. If lack of reported deaths is your metric, though, you are good. Some of us are a little wary of that. 🙄

Exactly.

So there is no data on spread in schools? How about teacher infection rates or something?

There is plenty of data about spread in schools (and lack there of). But people choose not to believe it.
https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/coronavirus/covid-19-data-insights/covid-19-outbreaks-by-selected-exposure-settings/

Yep, also: http://arlingtonparentsforeducation.org/research/why-cant-aps/

[Anonymous]

They did not divide APS middle and high into cohorts. They could have. They had all summer to do it. They didn’t. And they didn’t resort them. So they are not cohort of our kids and are not coming anything close to best practices. That’s why they shouldn’t open middle and high. They are also not doing testing. Read articles in today’s NYT article about England and secondary students. They are doing MASSIVE AMOUNTS of surveillance testing and they are STILL debating whether to open.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s no good data on spread because schools that are open (other than private) aren’t testing their populations. If lack of reported deaths is your metric, though, you are good. Some of us are a little wary of that. 🙄

Exactly.

So there is no data on spread in schools? How about teacher infection rates or something?

There is plenty of data about spread in schools (and lack there of). But people choose not to believe it.
https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/coronavirus/covid-19-data-insights/covid-19-outbreaks-by-selected-exposure-settings/

Yep, also: http://arlingtonparentsforeducation.org/research/why-cant-aps/

Did all those school districts cited stay open?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s no good data on spread because schools that are open (other than private) aren’t testing their populations. If lack of reported deaths is your metric, though, you are good. Some of us are a little wary of that. 🙄

Exactly.

So there is no data on spread in schools? How about teacher infection rates or something?

There is plenty of data about spread in schools (and lack there of). But people choose not to believe it.
https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/coronavirus/covid-19-data-insights/covid-19-outbreaks-by-selected-exposure-settings/

Yep, also: http://arlingtonparentsforeducation.org/research/why-cant-aps/

You cited APE lmao

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Daycare workers have been working with children for months. They are working with young children much more closely than any school teacher would ever work with children in a classroom.

Teachers aren’t more susceptible they simply are more organized and better paid so they feel they are entitled to teach from home and those poor people who have low wage jobs like daycare deserve to work because they get an education, they didn’t work as hard, etc

Every single time you think it’s so dangerous for teachers to be in a classroom where they will have minimal one on one contact with children stop and remember that everyday daycare workers are working with young children - holding them, helping them eat, helping them wash hands and so on - and everyday they come in contact with those children’s parents and are in a building all day with other adults. And then remember that there are kids that are 4,5 and even 6 because yes those ages are in daycares right now and are the same ages of children that teaches argued they can’t be around.

The argument teachers are making is they are “better than” so how dare they be expected to work. I have no respect for any of the teachers. I have even less respect for those who champion their faux cause.

I’m a special Ed teacher. I do all of that with older children. I’m not pitted against daycare teachers. I want them to be safe too. The main difference between my job and theirs is that they have the power to remove families from their facility, we do not. It’s the same with private school, many who have a code of conduct for families. I’m willing to teach in person but acknowledge the difference.

Lol if you think most daycares and preschools in this area are monitoring what families do in their off hours. How would that even work?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They did not divide APS middle and high into cohorts. They could have. They had all summer to do it. They didn’t. And they didn’t resort them. So they are not cohort of our kids and are not coming anything close to best practices. That’s why they shouldn’t open middle and high. They are also not doing testing. Read articles in today’s NYT article about England and secondary students. They are doing MASSIVE AMOUNTS of surveillance testing and they are STILL debating whether to open.

I read this morning that the new strain(s) are being found in much higher levels, due to their surveillance testing, in young children ages 2-12, so that they now believe the children are the main vectors spreading the more contagious strains to their families and communities. I don’t want that to happen here. We can wait a couple more months FFS. Our government failed us in the beginning, and that’s why we don’t have the virus under control and kids aren’t in school. Public schools aren’t daycares and can’t operate in the same manner, by forcing out bad actors who knowingly send their sick kids into the buildings. Americans are absolute jerks. Why any of you are in a rush to send your kids back knowing what selfish a**holes your neighbors are (threatening law suits if your private club attempts contact tracing during a pandemic), I will never understand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are you teachers so special again? 50 percent of our country’s teachers are back in the classroom. You teachers who want to stay home despite seeing the mental health and educational harms to kids are a disgrace. You all should just resign and let the dedicated lot of young teachers start helping them kids recover from this tragedy

Here in Arlington, dozens of schools been open in person since August. Those teachers have gone back to the classroom to teach. No issues.

Exactly... APS is one of the rare school systems that has not opened at all since closing in March.

What? In the DMV? AFAIK, DCPS, FCPS, LCPS, ACPS, MCPS, PGPS, have all been closed since the pandemic in March, except for small cohorts of special needs students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Daycare workers have been working with children for months. They are working with young children much more closely than any school teacher would ever work with children in a classroom.

Teachers aren’t more susceptible they simply are more organized and better paid so they feel they are entitled to teach from home and those poor people who have low wage jobs like daycare deserve to work because they get an education, they didn’t work as hard, etc

Every single time you think it’s so dangerous for teachers to be in a classroom where they will have minimal one on one contact with children stop and remember that everyday daycare workers are working with young children - holding them, helping them eat, helping them wash hands and so on - and everyday they come in contact with those children’s parents and are in a building all day with other adults. And then remember that there are kids that are 4,5 and even 6 because yes those ages are in daycares right now and are the same ages of children that teaches argued they can’t be around.

The argument teachers are making is they are “better than” so how dare they be expected to work. I have no respect for any of the teachers. I have even less respect for those who champion their faux cause.

There are a lot of jobs which have terrible working conditions. Daycare work is one of them. Why would I aspire to have similarly terrible working conditions? That makes no sense.

I do feel responsible for my students, but I have 160 of them and they change every year, so it is ridiculous to expect from me the same level of personal investment in them that parents have.

It astonishes me that people think “guilting” teachers back into the school building is an effective persuasive technique. Do they do that to nurses, too? If all of the nurses at our local hospital quit because they deemed the risk wasn’t worth the pay, and if the hospital couldn’t easily restaff because, hello, nursing shortage... how many people would tell them “You OWE it to society to DO YOUR JOB?” Not many, I would think. No, the hospital would figure out a way to improve working conditions or add more enticement to draw them back in (such as extra hazard pay). No one seems to have thought of doing that for teachers. Instead, FCPS froze step increases and pay raises and will require a model of teaching (concurrent) that creates twice as much work for us. Many schools aren’t providing much reassurance that PPE is plentiful and that proper social distancing can take place. Why on earth would I be enthusiastic about going back to that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok so back to the real question (though the debates about how teachers deserve/don’t deserve respect are remarkably entertaining in that they are so ludicrous)...
No one thinks going back in the height of the pandemic is a good idea. The metrics are all red.
How do we get aps to see that there is a silent majority that does want to go back but not until metrics are met?

Well, you could start by finding the science that supports that. The most up to date research and recommendations support going back and have lambasted the arbitrary metrics crafted by politicians and teachers unions (e.g., NYC’s 3% rate). Masks and cohorts have demonstrated to be more than sufficient across the county to significantly mitigate the risk of transmission. https://globalepidemics.org/2020/12/18/schools-and-the-path-to-zero-strategies-for-pandemic-resilience-in-the-face-of-high-community-spread/

Oh for God’s sake. I am sick to death of people referring to “the science” or “the studies” as some monolithic set of proofs that don’t need critical examination and evaluation. How many of your sources are from peer-reviewed scientific journals? Let me guess. None.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok so back to the real question (though the debates about how teachers deserve/don’t deserve respect are remarkably entertaining in that they are so ludicrous)...
No one thinks going back in the height of the pandemic is a good idea. The metrics are all red.
How do we get aps to see that there is a silent majority that does want to go back but not until metrics are met?

Well, you could start by finding the science that supports that. The most up to date research and recommendations support going back and have lambasted the arbitrary metrics crafted by politicians and teachers unions (e.g., NYC’s 3% rate). Masks and cohorts have demonstrated to be more than sufficient across the county to significantly mitigate the risk of transmission. https://globalepidemics.org/2020/12/18/schools-and-the-path-to-zero-strategies-for-pandemic-resilience-in-the-face-of-high-community-spread/

Oh for God’s sake. I am sick to death of people referring to “the science” or “the studies” as some monolithic set of proofs that don’t need critical examination and evaluation. How many of your sources are from peer-reviewed scientific journals? Let me guess. None.

Lol, not the PP but that link is a joint guidance document from Harvard and Brown's public health schools.

Things have changed since March. Catch up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They did not divide APS middle and high into cohorts. They could have. They had all summer to do it. They didn’t. And they didn’t resort them. So they are not cohort of our kids and are not coming anything close to best practices. That’s why they shouldn’t open middle and high. They are also not doing testing. Read articles in today’s NYT article about England and secondary students. They are doing MASSIVE AMOUNTS of surveillance testing and they are STILL debating whether to open.

I read this morning that the new strain(s) are being found in much higher levels, due to their surveillance testing, in young children ages 2-12, so that they now believe the children are the main vectors spreading the more contagious strains to their families and communities. I don’t want that to happen here. We can wait a couple more months FFS. Our government failed us in the beginning, and that’s why we don’t have the virus under control and kids aren’t in school. Public schools aren’t daycares and can’t operate in the same manner, by forcing out bad actors who knowingly send their sick kids into the buildings. Americans are absolute jerks. Why any of you are in a rush to send your kids back knowing what selfish a**holes your neighbors are (threatening law suits if your private club attempts contact tracing during a pandemic), I will never understand.

Agreed. How the new strain isn’t a game changer is beyond me. I’m keeping my kids home either way. But how anyone can knowingly expose teachers to this is astounding to me. Safety first. Before everything else. I do not trust APS with my kids’ safety with all their back and forth on metrics that allegedly matter and then abandoning them all together. No testing whatsoever. And now trying to force everyone back. I work for the federal government and the Trump administration is more protective of federal employees than APS is being of its own teachers. It’s astounding to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok so back to the real question (though the debates about how teachers deserve/don’t deserve respect are remarkably entertaining in that they are so ludicrous)...
No one thinks going back in the height of the pandemic is a good idea. The metrics are all red.
How do we get aps to see that there is a silent majority that does want to go back but not until metrics are met?

Well, you could start by finding the science that supports that. The most up to date research and recommendations support going back and have lambasted the arbitrary metrics crafted by politicians and teachers unions (e.g., NYC’s 3% rate). Masks and cohorts have demonstrated to be more than sufficient across the county to significantly mitigate the risk of transmission. https://globalepidemics.org/2020/12/18/schools-and-the-path-to-zero-strategies-for-pandemic-resilience-in-the-face-of-high-community-spread/

Oh for God’s sake. I am sick to death of people referring to “the science” or “the studies” as some monolithic set of proofs that don’t need critical examination and evaluation. How many of your sources are from peer-reviewed scientific journals? Let me guess. None.

Lol, not the PP but that link is a joint guidance document from Harvard and Brown's public health schools.

Things have changed since March. Catch up.

In other words, NOT scientific journals. See, this is what I mean? People don’t read carefully or critically anymore. You can’t even accurately read my 5 sentence posting.

And yes, I am familiar with the Brown University study. It is a great example of why economists should not play at being epidemiologists.