The Karen meme silences White women

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, OP, now you know how it feels and hopefully this will teach you and other people who are offended by the karen meme to be more understanding of what people who have to deal with racism go through every day.

I hope this is teaching you to have sympathy towards people who have to deal every day with racist comments like "all blacks are criminals," "all chinese people are carrying diseases," "all the vietnamese nail techs are talking about me behind my back," "all black women are angry," "all indian kids are nerds," etc...

Insulting people in order to increase their ability to sympathize seems like a poorly-considered strategy. But, your mileage may vary.

Given that you obviously see the harm of negative stereotypes, I am not sure why you support using one.

White privilege is an important issue and those who lack awareness of it or use it to their advantage should be called out. Singling out middle-aged white women seems a bit unfair and counter-productive.

This seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of the Karen meme, at least in its original meaning. A Karen is a certain type of entitled white woman of a certain generation who weaponizes white privilege to punish others, typically POC or service workers, whose behavior she disapproves of. In my circles (professional WOC), this has only been used in this context. It has never been used to simply refer to assertive middle-aged white women, but it seems that OP and you are using it in this way. At best, it's a misunderstanding of the term.

Today was the first time I have heard of your definition. I see the name used several times a day in these forums and I can’t remember it ever being used consistent with your definition. When it first started appearing, I even checked Urban Dictionary — obviously not necessarily an authoritative source but what are you going to do? — and the explanation there is similar to how I see it used here. However, that is much different than you define it. Basically, on DCUM “Karen” has become a general insult for any white female.

Moreover, as you can see from this very thread, women are told that it is only a meme and they should ignore it. But what you are talking about is serious and shouldn’t be ignored.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah no. I reported a black lady for stealing from trader joes last week. She was shoving things into her bag and I asked he if she was going to pay for that. She started yelling and filming. Trader joes intervened and called the police. When someone is doing something wrong I don’t care what color you are, I’m speaking up.

And you never paused to think that maybe she is hungry? Or offer to pay for her food? Why do people steal food? Just for fun, right?

I hear that some people justify looting, too ))))

Stealing is that, stealing.

Been seeing a lot of this "echo" popping up on DCUM lately. The neo-nazis are here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah no. I reported a black lady for stealing from trader joes last week. She was shoving things into her bag and I asked he if she was going to pay for that. She started yelling and filming. Trader joes intervened and called the police. When someone is doing something wrong I don’t care what color you are, I’m speaking up.

And you never paused to think that maybe she is hungry? Or offer to pay for her food? Why do people steal food? Just for fun, right?

Are you seriously defending a thief? She can go to a f::king food bank and stuff her bag.

Karen’s idea of “justice” is announcing how things SHOULD be done.

This is how society operates, by the rules of how things should be done.
Sorry it news to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, OP, now you know how it feels and hopefully this will teach you and other people who are offended by the karen meme to be more understanding of what people who have to deal with racism go through every day.

I hope this is teaching you to have sympathy towards people who have to deal every day with racist comments like "all blacks are criminals," "all chinese people are carrying diseases," "all the vietnamese nail techs are talking about me behind my back," "all black women are angry," "all indian kids are nerds," etc...

Insulting people in order to increase their ability to sympathize seems like a poorly-considered strategy. But, your mileage may vary.

Given that you obviously see the harm of negative stereotypes, I am not sure why you support using one.

White privilege is an important issue and those who lack awareness of it or use it to their advantage should be called out. Singling out middle-aged white women seems a bit unfair and counter-productive.

This seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of the Karen meme, at least in its original meaning. A Karen is a certain type of entitled white woman of a certain generation who weaponizes white privilege to punish others, typically POC or service workers, whose behavior she disapproves of. In my circles (professional WOC), this has only been used in this context. It has never been used to simply refer to assertive middle-aged white women, but it seems that OP and you are using it in this way. At best, it's a misunderstanding of the term.

“"Karen" is a pejorative term for a woman perceived to be self-entitled or demanding beyond the scope of what is considered appropriate or necessary, especially in public settings such as retail stores and restaurants.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah no. I reported a black lady for stealing from trader joes last week. She was shoving things into her bag and I asked he if she was going to pay for that. She started yelling and filming. Trader joes intervened and called the police. When someone is doing something wrong I don’t care what color you are, I’m speaking up.

And you never paused to think that maybe she is hungry? Or offer to pay for her food? Why do people steal food? Just for fun, right?

Are you seriously defending a thief? She can go to a f::king food bank and stuff her bag.

Karen’s idea of “justice” is announcing how things SHOULD be done.

This is how society operates, by the rules of how things should be done.
Sorry it news to you.

I'm gonna guess that "And you never paused..." poster is a Con pretending to be a fringy left-winger.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is screaming about it? Yes these 29 pages are a mixture of many women or men putting down middle-aged white woman as well as a number of women who find a slogan misogynistic, as the OP does.

NP. Add me to the group that finds it misogynistic. If this were a man, we might find him annoying, or not (sometimes the manager needs respectful input). But we wouldn't call him names and tell him to take his shake and shut up.

Actually we do. But Chad just let it go over his head, and it faded away. Karen, in turn, asked to see our manager.

PP here. Chad, Thad and Brad are a bit different--they're the dumb athletes who can't do math.

Karen is just trying to do something that, if this were a man, nobody would care.

I'd argue the opposite. People do care. Its just that men take their frustrations out in physical violence. See the two Bethesda racists who attacked bystanders in two consecutive weeks just recently. Also all the school shooters. The Las Vegas man who murdered 500 people in 10 minutes. The Oklahoma bomber.

Karens take their frustrations out on workers and individuals they deem social lower than them. They think their appearance and calling police (even when they are the ones in the wrong) will protect them.

So yes, we care when both sides of the coin take out frustrations on hapless individuals which is why we're calling the actions and behavior out.

You're conflating the Las Vegas shooter with someone who got bad service. You're saying both are equally in the wrong.

Then you're going the additional step of saying that the person who got bad service was a bully instead of respectful. It doesn't sound like OP wanted to "beat up on hapless individuals", let alone machine gun them.

We agree that the Las Vegas shooter was evil. But somebody who got bad service and wants to talk to the manager, respectfully? What's wrong with that? If it were a man, you sure wouldn't care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, OP, now you know how it feels and hopefully this will teach you and other people who are offended by the karen meme to be more understanding of what people who have to deal with racism go through every day.

I hope this is teaching you to have sympathy towards people who have to deal every day with racist comments like "all blacks are criminals," "all chinese people are carrying diseases," "all the vietnamese nail techs are talking about me behind my back," "all black women are angry," "all indian kids are nerds," etc...

Insulting people in order to increase their ability to sympathize seems like a poorly-considered strategy. But, your mileage may vary.

Given that you obviously see the harm of negative stereotypes, I am not sure why you support using one.

White privilege is an important issue and those who lack awareness of it or use it to their advantage should be called out. Singling out middle-aged white women seems a bit unfair and counter-productive.

This seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of the Karen meme, at least in its original meaning. A Karen is a certain type of entitled white woman of a certain generation who weaponizes white privilege to punish others, typically POC or service workers, whose behavior she disapproves of. In my circles (professional WOC), this has only been used in this context. It has never been used to simply refer to assertive middle-aged white women, but it seems that OP and you are using it in this way. At best, it's a misunderstanding of the term.

“"Karen" is a pejorative term for a woman perceived to be self-entitled or demanding beyond the scope of what is considered appropriate or necessary, especially in public settings such as retail stores and restaurants.”

This is a perfect definition. And as a middle aged white suburban mom, I don't think its a sexist or racist (anti-white) term at all. In fact its pretty damn accurate for many women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'm too focused on the murder of a jogger et. al ad nauseam to pay this any mind.

Karen is one name. Can you list the names of the black men and women murdered by police?

I went down to the protests and marched from Lafayette Square to Capitol Hill and back. I can list some of the names of the black people murdered by police, but not all because the list is too long.

I can also care about white women's voices being marginalized. No, it doesn't rise to the same level. But I can find a few minutes in my day to worry about some care other things.

A middle aged white lady who doesn't want to talk to the manager because she's afraid someone will make fun of her is not even in the same plane as a black woman dying because cops in plain clothes broke into her home in the middle of the night and shot her 8 times when the guy they were looking for was already in police custody, let alone being on the same level.

PP again. Why can't we care about Breonna Taylor AND about misogyny? It's like saying a cancer patient shouldn't worry about a broken leg.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is screaming about it? Yes these 29 pages are a mixture of many women or men putting down middle-aged white woman as well as a number of women who find a slogan misogynistic, as the OP does.

NP. Add me to the group that finds it misogynistic. If this were a man, we might find him annoying, or not (sometimes the manager needs respectful input). But we wouldn't call him names and tell him to take his shake and shut up.

Actually we do. But Chad just let it go over his head, and it faded away. Karen, in turn, asked to see our manager.

PP here. Chad, Thad and Brad are a bit different--they're the dumb athletes who can't do math.

Karen is just trying to do something that, if this were a man, nobody would care.

I'd argue the opposite. People do care. Its just that men take their frustrations out in physical violence. See the two Bethesda racists who attacked bystanders in two consecutive weeks just recently. Also all the school shooters. The Las Vegas man who murdered 500 people in 10 minutes. The Oklahoma bomber.

Karens take their frustrations out on workers and individuals they deem social lower than them. They think their appearance and calling police (even when they are the ones in the wrong) will protect them.

So yes, we care when both sides of the coin take out frustrations on hapless individuals which is why we're calling the actions and behavior out.

You're conflating the Las Vegas shooter with someone who got bad service. You're saying both are equally in the wrong.

Then you're going the additional step of saying that the person who got bad service was a bully instead of respectful. It doesn't sound like OP wanted to "beat up on hapless individuals", let alone machine gun them.

We agree that the Las Vegas shooter was evil. But somebody who got bad service and wants to talk to the manager, respectfully? What's wrong with that? If it were a man, you sure wouldn't care.

Nothing. Not a damn thing. As several people have told you all over and over again in the pages and pages and pages of this thread. But as usual, you (the collective you) aren't listening. It has been said some several times over that the meme is NOT about stifling the voice of white women. It is about calling out the self-righteous white women who choose to use their "status" against POC and others with less status than them. If that was not what OP was doing, then the meme is not talking about her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is screaming about it? Yes these 29 pages are a mixture of many women or men putting down middle-aged white woman as well as a number of women who find a slogan misogynistic, as the OP does.

NP. Add me to the group that finds it misogynistic. If this were a man, we might find him annoying, or not (sometimes the manager needs respectful input). But we wouldn't call him names and tell him to take his shake and shut up.

Actually we do. But Chad just let it go over his head, and it faded away. Karen, in turn, asked to see our manager.

PP here. Chad, Thad and Brad are a bit different--they're the dumb athletes who can't do math.

Karen is just trying to do something that, if this were a man, nobody would care.

I'd argue the opposite. People do care. Its just that men take their frustrations out in physical violence. See the two Bethesda racists who attacked bystanders in two consecutive weeks just recently. Also all the school shooters. The Las Vegas man who murdered 500 people in 10 minutes. The Oklahoma bomber.

Karens take their frustrations out on workers and individuals they deem social lower than them. They think their appearance and calling police (even when they are the ones in the wrong) will protect them.

So yes, we care when both sides of the coin take out frustrations on hapless individuals which is why we're calling the actions and behavior out.

You're conflating the Las Vegas shooter with someone who got bad service. You're saying both are equally in the wrong.

Then you're going the additional step of saying that the person who got bad service was a bully instead of respectful. It doesn't sound like OP wanted to "beat up on hapless individuals", let alone machine gun them.

We agree that the Las Vegas shooter was evil. But somebody who got bad service and wants to talk to the manager, respectfully? What's wrong with that? If it were a man, you sure wouldn't care.

Nothing. Not a damn thing. As several people have told you all over and over again in the pages and pages and pages of this thread. But as usual, you (the collective you) aren't listening. It has been said some several times over that the meme is NOT about stifling the voice of white women. It is about calling out the self-righteous white women who choose to use their "status" against POC and others with less status than them. If that was not what OP was doing, then the meme is not talking about her.

+1. The very fact that the Karens in this thread continue to misread and make it all about them is what makes them Karens. Most Karens are so busy speaking up that they have zero time to listen, as can be seen in this very thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

“"Karen" is a pejorative term for a woman perceived to be self-entitled or demanding beyond the scope of what is considered appropriate or necessary, especially in public settings such as retail stores and restaurants.”

This is a perfect definition. And as a middle aged white suburban mom, I don't think its a sexist or racist (anti-white) term at all. In fact its pretty damn accurate for many women.

As another middle-aged white suburban mom, I like the definition.

But I don't like your spin on it.

I don't think it's accurate for "many women" like us. The part that's bolded is key. Yet that's the part you and others are weaponizing against women, with ugly stereotypes about "most women" going beyond what's apparently "appropriate" for a woman. Which is apparently different from what's "appropriate" for a man.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

“"Karen" is a pejorative term for a woman perceived to be self-entitled or demanding beyond the scope of what is considered appropriate or necessary, especially in public settings such as retail stores and restaurants.”

This is a perfect definition. And as a middle aged white suburban mom, I don't think its a sexist or racist (anti-white) term at all. In fact its pretty damn accurate for many women.

As another middle-aged white suburban mom, I like the definition.

But I don't like your spin on it.

I don't think it's accurate for "many women" like us. The part that's bolded is key. Yet that's the part you and others are weaponizing against women, with ugly stereotypes about "most women" going beyond what's apparently "appropriate" for a woman. Which is apparently different from what's "appropriate" for a man.

I totally agree with your take.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing. Not a damn thing. As several people have told you all over and over again in the pages and pages and pages of this thread. But as usual, you (the collective you) aren't listening. It has been said some several times over that the meme is NOT about stifling the voice of white women. It is about calling out the self-righteous white women who choose to use their "status" against POC and others with less status than them. If that was not what OP was doing, then the meme is not talking about her.

+1. The very fact that the Karens in this thread continue to misread and make it all about them is what makes them Karens. Most Karens are so busy speaking up that they have zero time to listen, as can be seen in this very thread.

Here is an illustration of the crux of the problem as I see it. The first PP provides a reasonable explanation of the meaning of "Karen". That definition is not consistent with how I see it used here, but nevertheless. Then, the second PP comes along and accuses several posters in this thread of being "Karens". I admit that I have not read every page of this thread, but I doubt any poster here has attempted to use her status against POC. Indeed, that is not even what the second PP accuses them of doing. Rather, they are accused of misreading. Nobody has asked to speak to the manager -- I know because I am the manager.

Because, as the second PP demonstrates, "Karen" is routinely used as a simple insult devoid of any real meaning, the significance of the definition provided by the first PP is lost.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is screaming about it? Yes these 29 pages are a mixture of many women or men putting down middle-aged white woman as well as a number of women who find a slogan misogynistic, as the OP does.

NP. Add me to the group that finds it misogynistic. If this were a man, we might find him annoying, or not (sometimes the manager needs respectful input). But we wouldn't call him names and tell him to take his shake and shut up.

Actually we do. But Chad just let it go over his head, and it faded away. Karen, in turn, asked to see our manager.

PP here. Chad, Thad and Brad are a bit different--they're the dumb athletes who can't do math.

Karen is just trying to do something that, if this were a man, nobody would care.

I'd argue the opposite. People do care. Its just that men take their frustrations out in physical violence. See the two Bethesda racists who attacked bystanders in two consecutive weeks just recently. Also all the school shooters. The Las Vegas man who murdered 500 people in 10 minutes. The Oklahoma bomber.

Karens take their frustrations out on workers and individuals they deem social lower than them. They think their appearance and calling police (even when they are the ones in the wrong) will protect them.

So yes, we care when both sides of the coin take out frustrations on hapless individuals which is why we're calling the actions and behavior out.

You're conflating the Las Vegas shooter with someone who got bad service. You're saying both are equally in the wrong.

Then you're going the additional step of saying that the person who got bad service was a bully instead of respectful. It doesn't sound like OP wanted to "beat up on hapless individuals", let alone machine gun them.

We agree that the Las Vegas shooter was evil. But somebody who got bad service and wants to talk to the manager, respectfully? What's wrong with that? If it were a man, you sure wouldn't care.

Nothing. Not a damn thing. As several people have told you all over and over again in the pages and pages and pages of this thread. But as usual, you (the collective you) aren't listening. It has been said some several times over that the meme is NOT about stifling the voice of white women. It is about calling out the self-righteous white women who choose to use their "status" against POC and others with less status than them. If that was not what OP was doing, then the meme is not talking about her.

The bolded above X1000. I am a middle aged white woman and reading this thread is like bashing my head against the wall. As far as I can tell, no one on this thread has actually been silenced, told to shut up, or called out for racist or entitled acts or attitudes that don't apply to them in their day-to-day lives because of the Karen meme. It's all about the fear of being silenced, not the actual experience. Pages and pages about hypothetical silencing.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing. Not a damn thing. As several people have told you all over and over again in the pages and pages and pages of this thread. But as usual, you (the collective you) aren't listening. It has been said some several times over that the meme is NOT about stifling the voice of white women. It is about calling out the self-righteous white women who choose to use their "status" against POC and others with less status than them. If that was not what OP was doing, then the meme is not talking about her.

+1. The very fact that the Karens in this thread continue to misread and make it all about them is what makes them Karens. Most Karens are so busy speaking up that they have zero time to listen, as can be seen in this very thread.

Here is an illustration of the crux of the problem as I see it. The first PP provides a reasonable explanation of the meaning of "Karen". That definition is not consistent with how I see it used here, but nevertheless. Then, the second PP comes along and accuses several posters in this thread of being "Karens". I admit that I have not read every page of this thread, but I doubt any poster here has attempted to use her status against POC. Indeed, that is not even what the second PP accuses them of doing. Rather, they are accused of misreading. Nobody has asked to speak to the manager -- I know because I am the manager.

Because, as the second PP demonstrates, "Karen" is routinely used as a simple insult devoid of any real meaning, the significance of the definition provided by the first PP is lost.

Exactly. Some are trying to give "Karen" meaningful definitions. But many DCUMers aren't listening. They continue to use "Karen" as a broad insult that encompasses all white women of a certain age. Here's the sixth post on this thread:

I think that’s the point. We are sick of the outraged middle aged white woman. The problem is that your outrage is over absolutely nothing and you don’t care who you run over. Instead of building others up, you’ve focused on just yourself and tearing others down.

That post contains a boatload of assumptions about OP, about her motives, about how she planned to approach her problem, and about her intentions. Many of these assumptions are gendered and misogynistic; a white guy complaining about his shake would elicit a shrug.