This age discrepancy due to "redshirting" is ridiculous

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Or, if you keep your September kid back, then their October kid won't be the oldest!

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
(I have yet to see large numbers of 15 year olds in middle schools or 20 year olds in high schools, so that"s not a big factor to worry about.)

Was the trend as pronounced 10-15 years ago as it is now?

Though, I don't anticipate "large numbers" of children 2 years behind. I do anticipate large numbers of children one year behind (where large numbers equals >25% in a given environment). And a few outliers who are 2 years behind. It used to be only a few outliers were 1 year behind, so I am curious where things will stand in another 10-15 years.

I also wish I could flash forward and see what the children who were redshirted or not do with their own children.

In the mid to late eighties, Virginia gradually switched deadline from 31 December to 30 September. It took a few years, so among kids who entered K in those years there was at least a 15 month age span within each grade. Families had a fair amount of discretion to send their children or not during those years, with the date moving back a month each year, so there were a lot of September, October, and December birthday kids who were a year apart from each other in those classes.
So, if you went to school in Virginia and you are in your late twenties or early thirties, this was your school experience. What did you think? Were you very aware of the age differences in the kids in your grade? Did it make a big difference in your experience of school?

[Anonymous]

I understand what you are saying but it was one month per year---13 months difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OK, here we go, again, HOW MANY NON Aug/Sept kids are being red-shirted? Not many! This is just a non-issue and the only ones complaining are the ones sending their AUG/SEP birthday kid. And to that I say, make a choice and respect others' choices. Amen! If your kid is not an Aug/Sep birthday, please stop threading about this issue as it in NO WAY impacts your DC.

Great statement.

Except it's false.

Of course, it impacts my children. It changes the standards and expectations of the elementary school classroom. I'm not wild about my children going to middle school with 15 year-olds and to high school with 20-year-olds.

OMG. Stop being so ridiculous. Go get a hobby.

Hopefully your snowflakes will learn math skills outside the home. Break the I-don't-know-how-to-add cycle!

Oh wow. You are so right. I didn't think there would be many 20 year olds in HS because those kids would be redshirted AND held back again later. But you are right! Now, using math correctly, I know there will be a TON of those 20 year olds running around HS. TONS!! So scary. Freak out! Ahhhhh!! Jeepers!!! OMG! Let's get hysterical about it together!!

Or....maybe you can try yoga. Running might be good. Maybe even knitting? There's got to be something for you out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I understand what you are saying but it was one month per year---13 months difference.

But there were varying levels of parent and principal discretion for the months involved, so there was the possibility of a few months difference. You were allowed and even encouraged to start holding back your October and November four year olds before the date had been moved back that far.Also, this area has always been the home for military families who move in and out over the years. Many have children who start school in other states with different cutoff dates, so you can add those kids into the mix both back then and now.

[Anonymous]

It's not just military families that move in and out of here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
In the mid to late eighties, Virginia gradually switched deadline from 31 December to 30 September. It took a few years, so among kids who entered K in those years there was at least a 15 month age span within each grade. Families had a fair amount of discretion to send their children or not during those years, with the date moving back a month each year, so there were a lot of September, October, and December birthday kids who were a year apart from each other in those classes.
So, if you went to school in Virginia and you are in your late twenties or early thirties, this was your school experience. What did you think? Were you very aware of the age differences in the kids in your grade? Did it make a big difference in your experience of school?

I went to Virginia schools before the deadline was switched, but yes, children were aware of each other's ages. Age is a big thing in kid world. Even if we didn't know specifically you were held back (I had one K classmate who was held back) we knew who was "older than average." Even if we didn't know specifically you were leapfrogged a grade, we knew who was "younger than average."

Knowing the ages of other students did not make a big difference in my experience. However, I was a high achiever with strong academic talents, one of those grade skipping people.I do have concerns about the trend of redshirting because it contributes to the tendency of schools to have unrealistic expectations of the average K student. It makes parents ask questions like "my rising K isn't reading yet, will it be ok?" which is ridiculous when you compare it to things our parents used to ask about us "my rising K isn't snapping her pants yet, will it be ok?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How does a kid being 1 to 60 days OLDER impact your kid?? It doesn't!! Most kids being held are Aug/Sep birthdays and would have been 4 when KG began. Again, you are making an issue out of a kid being 15 days older than the next oldest child! What gives - what is your REAL issue???

I don't think people are talking about a few days - agree 1-60 not a big deal... It's more the outliers. The 90 days, the 160 days + 365 then you start to see real differences.

I for one am sending my 4 yo to K on time. Contrary to assumptions, I have no guilt. He spent the last year in a class of peers and did fine and I know he will do fine. It's more the perception in class of comparing my kid to a May red shirt that is now close to a year and half older than my child. I am sure teachers do their best, but with large classes, I imagine human nature may play in at time and my child may be viewed as "immature" even though my child is exactly on target for the age. It's just by comparison to the extreme red shirt kids my child might appear young.

IMO it's the extreme outliers, not the aug/sept kids whose parents deem the child is better off waiting a year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

So by your logic, a child should never go to day care at an early age and very limited preschool if any. The child is basically five, give or take a few weeks. Either a child is ready or not but to hold them back over a few weeks makes no sense. I have a September child so this does impact us and our plan is to send him. What ever skills he is behind on, we will work with him at home and help him "catch up." Academics come easy as he's reading at 3 and starting to write. He can spend hours doing school work and loves the structured activities at preschool. What would not be fair to him is to have to move him as he cannot stay at 5 at his preschool to a play based preschool where there are few academics being taught. At that point, Kumon, playground and other activities would better meet his needs. He needs to be in a structured learning program and parents today are anti-learning at earlier ages so there are very few private programs around that would meet his needs. Hence, K. is the right choice. Some kids aren't ready. Some kids are. Let those kids ready go. How does it harm your child by having a 4 year old/11 months start with your 5 year 5 month child? It doesn't

I think the people on this board that have the problem are the ones that think everyone should send their child on time--ready or not.

What does ready mean? You could have a child start at six and not read and write but deemed ready as he is 6. You can have an almost 5 year old ready and is reading and writing prior to entering. You can have a five year old who is somewhere in the middle. K. is where kids are supposed to get those skills so ready or not, they should start so they can learn academic and social skills. I'm amazed that so many kids do not have basic literacy skills at age five. In less there are medical or developmental delays, kids at a minimum should know how to count, know all the letters and basic sight words. Is it really that hard to spend 15-20 minutes working with your kid a few days a week?

[Anonymous]

Maturity and academics are two different things. If the child is in a group of kids outside the school, does he tend to play more with the younger ones? That's one measure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The REAL issue is that some of them feel guilty about sending their children and want you to send yours so that they won't feel guilty.

Or don't want to shell out for one more year if preschool...

Or the parents who held their kids back because they "weren't ready" are upset because time alone didn't fix their kids' problems, and now they feel guilty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The REAL issue is that some of them feel guilty about sending their children and want you to send yours so that they won't feel guilty.

Or don't want to shell out for one more year if preschool...

Or the parents who held their kids back because they "weren't ready" are upset because time alone didn't fix their kids' problems, and now they feel guilty.

No, really. Go back and look through this thread or the gazillion others on the topic. It's the moms of the on-timers who get their wazoo all out of whack. Just relax. It's not a race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So by your logic, a child should never go to day care at an early age and very limited preschool if any. The child is basically five, give or take a few weeks. Either a child is ready or not but to hold them back over a few weeks makes no sense. I have a September child so this does impact us and our plan is to send him. What ever skills he is behind on, we will work with him at home and help him "catch up." Academics come easy as he's reading at 3 and starting to write. He can spend hours doing school work and loves the structured activities at preschool. What would not be fair to him is to have to move him as he cannot stay at 5 at his preschool to a play based preschool where there are few academics being taught. At that point, Kumon, playground and other activities would better meet his needs. He needs to be in a structured learning program and parents today are anti-learning at earlier ages so there are very few private programs around that would meet his needs. Hence, K. is the right choice. Some kids aren't ready. Some kids are. Let those kids ready go. How does it harm your child by having a 4 year old/11 months start with your 5 year 5 month child? It doesn't

I think the people on this board that have the problem are the ones that think everyone should send their child on time--ready or not.

What does ready mean? You could have a child start at six and not read and write but deemed ready as he is 6. You can have an almost 5 year old ready and is reading and writing prior to entering. You can have a five year old who is somewhere in the middle. K. is where kids are supposed to get those skills so ready or not, they should start so they can learn academic and social skills. I'm amazed that so many kids do not have basic literacy skills at age five. In less there are medical or developmental delays, kids at a minimum should know how to count, know all the letters and basic sight words. Is it really that hard to spend 15-20 minutes working with your kid a few days a week?

You are wrong. A child does NOT need sight words for K. The ability to but not to actually read the words. Learning through play environments don't push rote memorization so they don't have sight words down at the start of K but pick them up easily b/c they have the learning tools to do so. Overall it doesn't make a difference, but going into K, they often do not have sight words memorized but they are still very much qualified.

[Anonymous]

ITA, pushing sight words on kids who should be playing in preschool is depressing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So by your logic, a child should never go to day care at an early age and very limited preschool if any. The child is basically five, give or take a few weeks. Either a child is ready or not but to hold them back over a few weeks makes no sense. I have a September child so this does impact us and our plan is to send him. What ever skills he is behind on, we will work with him at home and help him "catch up." Academics come easy as he's reading at 3 and starting to write. He can spend hours doing school work and loves the structured activities at preschool. What would not be fair to him is to have to move him as he cannot stay at 5 at his preschool to a play based preschool where there are few academics being taught. At that point, Kumon, playground and other activities would better meet his needs. He needs to be in a structured learning program and parents today are anti-learning at earlier ages so there are very few private programs around that would meet his needs. Hence, K. is the right choice. Some kids aren't ready. Some kids are. Let those kids ready go. How does it harm your child by having a 4 year old/11 months start with your 5 year 5 month child? It doesn't

I think the people on this board that have the problem are the ones that think everyone should send their child on time--ready or not.

What does ready mean? You could have a child start at six and not read and write but deemed ready as he is 6. You can have an almost 5 year old ready and is reading and writing prior to entering. You can have a five year old who is somewhere in the middle. K. is where kids are supposed to get those skills so ready or not, they should start so they can learn academic and social skills. I'm amazed that so many kids do not have basic literacy skills at age five. In less there are medical or developmental delays, kids at a minimum should know how to count, know all the letters and basic sight words. Is it really that hard to spend 15-20 minutes working with your kid a few days a week?

You are wrong. A child does NOT need sight words for K. The ability to but not to actually read the words. Learning through play environments don't push rote memorization so they don't have sight words down at the start of K but pick them up easily b/c they have the learning tools to do so. Overall it doesn't make a difference, but going into K, they often do not have sight words memorized but they are still very much qualified.

So, then if kids do not need to know it, why not start K. on time. Why hold back over a month if they don't need any academic starting skills as according to you it makes no difference. It helps to have kids ready for school. It may not matter in the long run but it makes the transition to K. much easier.