Ukrainian victory over Russia is inevitable

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick on the Walmart set all you want; but also be honest that Americas elite has a pretty crappy record with military adventure.

Please remind me which military adventures the Walmart set has not vigorously supported? Pretty much Ukraine, and why? Because Trump is a self declared friend of Putin, who was led to believe, by Russians, that Ukraine somehow conspired to interfere with his election.

That is what it's about. They are not the hapless victims of Americas elite. They are currently the hapless victims of Donald J. Trump.

A lot of people lost their appetite for endless wars after the never ending Afghanistan/Iraq debacles. Has absolutely nothing to do with Russia Russia Russia.

Agreed that the Cheney team did a lot of damage to US foreign policy. But if you turn your back now, you'll be the same as empowering Hitler in 1938.

"On 1st September over 320,000 children went to school at liberated territories and on Donbas, 29,500 of them are first graders. This is one of the main achievements of the SMO [special military operation]. We have torn over 1/3 million children out of the hands of the crazy rusophobic propaganda. This is wonderful."
https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1698238267181662561

"When some million and a half 10th- and 11th-graders across Russia and the Russian-occupied territories of Ukraine started the school year on Friday, they received new textbooks for their history classes. Of these, the most notable is the new 11th-grade Russian history text, hastily written at the direction of a Kremlin aide to justify what the Russian government calls the “special military operation” in Ukraine."
"The new textbook, titled History of Russia: 1945 to the Early 21st Century"
"Amnesty International denounced the book as a “blatant attempt to unlawfully indoctrinate school children in Russia and Russian-occupied Ukrainian territories,” pointing out that teachers in the occupied parts of Ukraine “are at risk of violence, arbitrary detention and ill-treatment” if they refuse to teach the material."
"Over more than 400 pages, Ukraine is mentioned more often than any other former Soviet or Russian possession. Its supposedly central role in Russia’s own history is unambiguously promoted, while Ukrainian independence and alignment with Europe are “unthinkable” and “civilization-ending.”"
"The most infamous periods of Soviet history—genocides, mass deportations, political prisons, mass executions—are barely mentioned at all."
"When describing Russia’s supposedly “historical” ownership of Ukraine’s Crimean Peninsula, for example, the book claims that ethnic Russians make up the “absolute majority” of Crimea’s population. But Russians only became the dominant ethnicity in Crimea through a policy of colonization and ethnic cleansing—especially after 1944, when Soviet leader Joseph Stalin ordered the deportation of the indigenous Crimean Tatar population, which he falsely accused of collectively collaborating with the Nazis."
https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/09/03/russia-schoolbook-schools-ukraine-west-indoctrination-history-falsification-war-hatred-putin/?tpcc=recirc_latest062921

You’re not really making a case for the Ukrainian ownership of Crimea here.

It's making a case that Russia is brainwashing children with a version of propaganda as revisionist history.

Russians have a difficult time dealing with 'factual logic and truth' versus untruths that they are forced to accept without question. When faced with a reality they cannot accept, many become irrational, angry and violent.

The man, thought to be in his early 40s and speaking in Russian, approached a group of children in the town of Einbeck in Lower Saxony who were sitting together on a bridge speaking Ukrainian. He told them they should be speaking Russian instead and that it was in fact Ukraine that started the war. The man then pulled the hair of a girl and threw a boy over the bridge’s five-metre high railing and into the canal, according to investigators. The boy hit the bridge’s iron girders before dropping into the water. The man then picked up a glass bottle and threw it at the boy while he was still in the water, hitting him on the right shoulder. The attacker fled as the other children helped the injured boy out of the water and told their parents."
https://www.yahoo.com/news/man-throws-10-old-off-144938016.html

Typically, they will seek to determine the level of authority making the statement and contrary statements are labeled as "delusions" (e.g. things that must be accepted without questioning or reasoning). This is a core tenant of Russian propaganda, so you'll see it play out here in DCUMS from time to time. There was a lull on this thread for a while, but it appears a new pair of Russian trolls may have been assigned to influence the thread. When confronted with facts that cannot be refuted or countered, many will instinctively react by undermining the person versus the fact.

The Russian Government takes this to the extreme by indoctrinating / brainwashing children, monitoring their reactions and culling out those that do not adapt to the training. As adults they can also be labeled so that they can be quickly discredited or locked away.

"The patients with paranoid symptoms retained some insight into their condition but overestimated their own significance and could manifest grandiose ideas of reforming society. Thereby, sluggish schizophrenia could have such symptoms as "reform delusions", "perseverance", and "struggle for the truth"."
"On the covert orders of the KGB, thousands of social and political reformers—Soviet "dissidents"—were incarcerated in mental hospitals after being labelled with diagnoses of "sluggish schizophrenia", a disease fabricated by Snezhnevsky and "Moscow school" of psychiatry."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_abuse_of_psychiatry_in_the_Soviet_Union#:~:text=On%20the%20covert%20orders%20of,%22Moscow%20school%22%20of%20psychiatry.

Do you think DCUM might benefit from a character limit on a single post?

[Anonymous]

Pro-Ukrainian poster, I echo the PP above and ask you to please limit the written diarrhea.

Often your massive blocks of texts really don't pertain to the direction of the discussion, and they're so long people don't fully read them anyway.

It makes you nearly as irritating, sometimes, as the pro-Russian troll, who just posts laughable nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Pro-Ukrainian poster, I echo the PP above and ask you to please limit the written diarrhea.

Often your massive blocks of texts really don't pertain to the direction of the discussion, and they're so long people don't fully read them anyway.

It makes you nearly as irritating, sometimes, as the pro-Russian troll, who just posts laughable nonsense.

Dp.. I think they very much do pertain to the discussion and contribute a lot of additional context and insight. You, on the other hand, are just intellectually lazy and don't like reading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Pro-Ukrainian poster, I echo the PP above and ask you to please limit the written diarrhea.

Often your massive blocks of texts really don't pertain to the direction of the discussion, and they're so long people don't fully read them anyway.

It makes you nearly as irritating, sometimes, as the pro-Russian troll, who just posts laughable nonsense.

For all the accusations of "bots" on this thread, its that poster that is most "bot" like. It reads like an AI that values quantity over quality. Which ironically, is a Russian trait.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Pro-Ukrainian poster, I echo the PP above and ask you to please limit the written diarrhea.

Often your massive blocks of texts really don't pertain to the direction of the discussion, and they're so long people don't fully read them anyway.

It makes you nearly as irritating, sometimes, as the pro-Russian troll, who just posts laughable nonsense.

For all the accusations of "bots" on this thread, its that poster that is most "bot" like. It reads like an AI that values quantity over quality. Which ironically, is a Russian trait.

An AI response is similar to your post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick on the Walmart set all you want; but also be honest that Americas elite has a pretty crappy record with military adventure.

Please remind me which military adventures the Walmart set has not vigorously supported? Pretty much Ukraine, and why? Because Trump is a self declared friend of Putin, who was led to believe, by Russians, that Ukraine somehow conspired to interfere with his election.

That is what it's about. They are not the hapless victims of Americas elite. They are currently the hapless victims of Donald J. Trump.

A lot of people lost their appetite for endless wars after the never ending Afghanistan/Iraq debacles. Has absolutely nothing to do with Russia Russia Russia.

Agreed that the Cheney team did a lot of damage to US foreign policy. But if you turn your back now, you'll be the same as empowering Hitler in 1938.

"On 1st September over 320,000 children went to school at liberated territories and on Donbas, 29,500 of them are first graders. This is one of the main achievements of the SMO [special military operation]. We have torn over 1/3 million children out of the hands of the crazy rusophobic propaganda. This is wonderful."
https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1698238267181662561

"When some million and a half 10th- and 11th-graders across Russia and the Russian-occupied territories of Ukraine started the school year on Friday, they received new textbooks for their history classes. Of these, the most notable is the new 11th-grade Russian history text, hastily written at the direction of a Kremlin aide to justify what the Russian government calls the “special military operation” in Ukraine."
"The new textbook, titled History of Russia: 1945 to the Early 21st Century"
"Amnesty International denounced the book as a “blatant attempt to unlawfully indoctrinate school children in Russia and Russian-occupied Ukrainian territories,” pointing out that teachers in the occupied parts of Ukraine “are at risk of violence, arbitrary detention and ill-treatment” if they refuse to teach the material."
"Over more than 400 pages, Ukraine is mentioned more often than any other former Soviet or Russian possession. Its supposedly central role in Russia’s own history is unambiguously promoted, while Ukrainian independence and alignment with Europe are “unthinkable” and “civilization-ending.”"
"The most infamous periods of Soviet history—genocides, mass deportations, political prisons, mass executions—are barely mentioned at all."
"When describing Russia’s supposedly “historical” ownership of Ukraine’s Crimean Peninsula, for example, the book claims that ethnic Russians make up the “absolute majority” of Crimea’s population. But Russians only became the dominant ethnicity in Crimea through a policy of colonization and ethnic cleansing—especially after 1944, when Soviet leader Joseph Stalin ordered the deportation of the indigenous Crimean Tatar population, which he falsely accused of collectively collaborating with the Nazis."
https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/09/03/russia-schoolbook-schools-ukraine-west-indoctrination-history-falsification-war-hatred-putin/?tpcc=recirc_latest062921

You’re not really making a case for the Ukrainian ownership of Crimea here.

It's making a case that Russia is brainwashing children with a version of propaganda as revisionist history.

Russians have a difficult time dealing with 'factual logic and truth' versus untruths that they are forced to accept without question. When faced with a reality they cannot accept, many become irrational, angry and violent.

The man, thought to be in his early 40s and speaking in Russian, approached a group of children in the town of Einbeck in Lower Saxony who were sitting together on a bridge speaking Ukrainian. He told them they should be speaking Russian instead and that it was in fact Ukraine that started the war. The man then pulled the hair of a girl and threw a boy over the bridge’s five-metre high railing and into the canal, according to investigators. The boy hit the bridge’s iron girders before dropping into the water. The man then picked up a glass bottle and threw it at the boy while he was still in the water, hitting him on the right shoulder. The attacker fled as the other children helped the injured boy out of the water and told their parents."
https://www.yahoo.com/news/man-throws-10-old-off-144938016.html

Typically, they will seek to determine the level of authority making the statement and contrary statements are labeled as "delusions" (e.g. things that must be accepted without questioning or reasoning). This is a core tenant of Russian propaganda, so you'll see it play out here in DCUMS from time to time. There was a lull on this thread for a while, but it appears a new pair of Russian trolls may have been assigned to influence the thread. When confronted with facts that cannot be refuted or countered, many will instinctively react by undermining the person versus the fact.

The Russian Government takes this to the extreme by indoctrinating / brainwashing children, monitoring their reactions and culling out those that do not adapt to the training. As adults they can also be labeled so that they can be quickly discredited or locked away.

"The patients with paranoid symptoms retained some insight into their condition but overestimated their own significance and could manifest grandiose ideas of reforming society. Thereby, sluggish schizophrenia could have such symptoms as "reform delusions", "perseverance", and "struggle for the truth"."
"On the covert orders of the KGB, thousands of social and political reformers—Soviet "dissidents"—were incarcerated in mental hospitals after being labelled with diagnoses of "sluggish schizophrenia", a disease fabricated by Snezhnevsky and "Moscow school" of psychiatry."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_abuse_of_psychiatry_in_the_Soviet_Union#:~:text=On%20the%20covert%20orders%20of,%22Moscow%20school%22%20of%20psychiatry.

Do you think DCUM might benefit from a character limit on a single post?

Only if you want to support fake posts. True posts include quotes and citations. Fake posts meant to generate hate and anger, or benefit Nation-State Actors are usually short and contain only opinions and falsehoods.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Pro-Ukrainian poster, I echo the PP above and ask you to please limit the written diarrhea.

Often your massive blocks of texts really don't pertain to the direction of the discussion, and they're so long people don't fully read them anyway.

It makes you nearly as irritating, sometimes, as the pro-Russian troll, who just posts laughable nonsense.

For all the accusations of "bots" on this thread, its that poster that is most "bot" like. It reads like an AI that values quantity over quality. Which ironically, is a Russian trait.

Hah! Nice try. Only Russian news articles can be used to program Russian AI propaganda. The diversity of news sources is a sign that actual news was provided. Bots are limited to RT and Tass, etc. because Western sources would taint the storyline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Pro-Ukrainian poster, I echo the PP above and ask you to please limit the written diarrhea.

Often your massive blocks of texts really don't pertain to the direction of the discussion, and they're so long people don't fully read them anyway.

It makes you nearly as irritating, sometimes, as the pro-Russian troll, who just posts laughable nonsense.

Everything you say does make me question who you are. If you were Ukrainian, I would think you'd be interested in multiple reference links about how the War is going back home? Strange.

In short, longer posts with multiple topic areas help to defeat AI programs. AI programs work best on short paragraphs with low information content value. This permits the AI to counter in a 1:1 fashion. When multiple themes are presented to the AI, it becomes confused following the thread and tends to make mistakes. Once the AI becomes tripped up like this, it needs to be reset, since it's machine learning weights have been tainted with disjointed facts that aren't conducive to propaganda.

Longer posts will also irritate people with different points of view and opinions, since I've noticed that there are a lot of opinions and comments without research to back it up. The irritation is somewhat intentional. A Russian propagandist blogging doesn't have the luxury to reason out non-approved themes unless they're senior level - and even that's a risk. This limits their ability to maneuver on topics, or they risk upsetting their superiors.

But if you're Ukrainian, you already know this (or should). After all, you received a daily dose of it?

[Anonymous]

But if you are Ukrainian, take heart - things are looking up.

"Maksim Kuzminov, the 28-year-old Russian pilot of the Mi-8 helicopter who surrendered to Ukraine after landing in a Ukrainian airfield on Aug. 23, called on other Russian pilots to follow his example."
"If you do what I did, this kind of thing, you will not regret it at all. You will be provided for the rest of your life with absolutely everything," Kuzminov stated. "You will be offered work everywhere, whatever you want to do. You will just discover for yourself the world of colors."
"What is happening now is simply the genocide of the Ukrainian people. Both Ukrainian and Russian. The basis of my action is not to contribute to these crimes. Ukraine will definitely win this war simply because the people have rallied very much... No one wants this war. When Ukraine wins is only a matter of time."
https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-pilot-transferred-ukraine-calls-214209549.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Pro-Ukrainian poster, I echo the PP above and ask you to please limit the written diarrhea.

Often your massive blocks of texts really don't pertain to the direction of the discussion, and they're so long people don't fully read them anyway.

It makes you nearly as irritating, sometimes, as the pro-Russian troll, who just posts laughable nonsense.

Everything you say does make me question who you are. If you were Ukrainian, I would think you'd be interested in multiple reference links about how the War is going back home? Strange.

In short, longer posts with multiple topic areas help to defeat AI programs. AI programs work best on short paragraphs with low information content value. This permits the AI to counter in a 1:1 fashion. When multiple themes are presented to the AI, it becomes confused following the thread and tends to make mistakes. Once the AI becomes tripped up like this, it needs to be reset, since it's machine learning weights have been tainted with disjointed facts that aren't conducive to propaganda.

Longer posts will also irritate people with different points of view and opinions, since I've noticed that there are a lot of opinions and comments without research to back it up. The irritation is somewhat intentional. A Russian propagandist blogging doesn't have the luxury to reason out non-approved themes unless they're senior level - and even that's a risk. This limits their ability to maneuver on topics, or they risk upsetting their superiors.

But if you're Ukrainian, you already know this (or should). After all, you received a daily dose of it?

The thing is that your posts aren’t reasoning it out. They are more of a data dump with little reason or logic. I think you’re altogether exaggerating their literary or research value. They are boring and clearly designed to further a point of view rather than a diversity of sources.

[Anonymous]

I am going to repost this every few pages as this thread is daunting to navigate. But it holds true.

Why is the U.S. & NATO losing the war in Ukraine?


A Russian wife turned to her husband and asked, "What's this special military operation our glorious leader keeps talking about?" Her husband replied, "It's a war to stop America and NATO." "Oh, right” she says “How's it going?"

“Well” he replied “so far we have lost over 20 generals, 100,000 troops killed, countless injured, 3000 tanks, 300 aircraft, hundreds of helicopters, countless armoured vehicles, artillery and trucks, our flagship along with other naval ships, our army is being defeated in most areas and we have had to resort to conscripting 500,000 Russians including murderers and rapists to replace our losses”.

“Wow” replied the wife “what about America and NATO”?

“They haven’t turned up yet”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am going to repost this every few pages as this thread is daunting to navigate. But it holds true.

Why is the U.S. & NATO losing the war in Ukraine?


A Russian wife turned to her husband and asked, "What's this special military operation our glorious leader keeps talking about?" Her husband replied, "It's a war to stop America and NATO." "Oh, right” she says “How's it going?"

“Well” he replied “so far we have lost over 20 generals, 100,000 troops killed, countless injured, 3000 tanks, 300 aircraft, hundreds of helicopters, countless armoured vehicles, artillery and trucks, our flagship along with other naval ships, our army is being defeated in most areas and we have had to resort to conscripting 500,000 Russians including murderers and rapists to replace our losses”.

“Wow” replied the wife “what about America and NATO”?

“They haven’t turned up yet”

Can’t wait to see AI or Russian bots discern this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Pro-Ukrainian poster, I echo the PP above and ask you to please limit the written diarrhea.

Often your massive blocks of texts really don't pertain to the direction of the discussion, and they're so long people don't fully read them anyway.

It makes you nearly as irritating, sometimes, as the pro-Russian troll, who just posts laughable nonsense.

Everything you say does make me question who you are. If you were Ukrainian, I would think you'd be interested in multiple reference links about how the War is going back home? Strange.

In short, longer posts with multiple topic areas help to defeat AI programs. AI programs work best on short paragraphs with low information content value. This permits the AI to counter in a 1:1 fashion. When multiple themes are presented to the AI, it becomes confused following the thread and tends to make mistakes. Once the AI becomes tripped up like this, it needs to be reset, since it's machine learning weights have been tainted with disjointed facts that aren't conducive to propaganda.

Longer posts will also irritate people with different points of view and opinions, since I've noticed that there are a lot of opinions and comments without research to back it up. The irritation is somewhat intentional. A Russian propagandist blogging doesn't have the luxury to reason out non-approved themes unless they're senior level - and even that's a risk. This limits their ability to maneuver on topics, or they risk upsetting their superiors.

But if you're Ukrainian, you already know this (or should). After all, you received a daily dose of it?

The thing is that your posts aren’t reasoning it out. They are more of a data dump with little reason or logic. I think you’re altogether exaggerating their literary or research value. They are boring and clearly designed to further a point of view rather than a diversity of sources.

to paraphrase your complaint: "Stop with all of your pesky facts! You make it hard for the russian operators and their attempt at snarky one-liners!"

Sorry but I disagree with you and welcome the long posts. The more facts and details, the better. A big part of the problem with politics is that too much of it is superficial and emotion-based, lacking in detail.

[Anonymous]

Unfortunately, we are engaged in an unwinnable war against Russia.

Russia has nukes, patience, no morals, and Putin. And Iranian drones. And trade with China & India.

Absolutely an unwinnable war that will accomplish little more than the near total annihilation of Ukraine and itscitizens.

This is the sad truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately, we are engaged in an unwinnable war against Russia.

Russia has nukes, patience, no morals, and Putin. And Iranian drones. And trade with China & India.

Absolutely an unwinnable war that will accomplish little more than the near total annihilation of Ukraine and itscitizens.

This is the sad truth.

Who is "we" ?

If it is the US, no, the US is not at war with Russia, nor does it have troops on the ground there. If we is NATO, then, no, NATO is not at war in Ukraine either. At the moment, The Ukrainians are trying to get the Russians to leave their country. Yes, they have help from the US and other allies, and so far, it is going pretty well. The Russians have been losing ground for months, the troops have been losing morale and the Russian military is showing to be a fat and lazy bear.

In fact,

So when you say it is unwinnable, on what is that supposition based?