DA vs ECNL vs everything else

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^PP

I don't disagree but I don't think most parents really care about the motives of US Soccer or ECNL. If both leagues offer a platform for their kids to be easily seen and US Soccer wants to claim "casting a wider" net, well it might just be a good idea to get caught in THAT net versus trying your luck hoping you get on a great team that gets into top brackets at the remaining "open" showcases.

A caveat: ONLY KNOWINGLY LET YOUR DC GET CAUGHT IN THAT DA OR ECNL NET IF ONE OF THE FOLLOWING TRUE:

(1) Your semi-elite DC (with no college aspirations) and family has the cache of money (8-10K a year) and time to blow on soccer and nothing else and doesn't want to play other sports through middle and high school; or

(2) Your DC has enough college aspirations right now such that they (as in the DC, not the parents living the dream) want that option so they can play in college and be seen by scouts from 8th grade to sophomore year HS. [In that case, it is a rare middle schooler that knows this, and nothing wrong with waiting. PPs mentioned DAs should start at high school age, as the parents of middle schoolers are only jumping in out of fear they won't later be able to get in. Just not true for a great player who later decided as an 8th grader or HS freshman to make college ball the end game.]

If, and only if, you meet one on the 2 caveats, then you are a lucky dog to live in the oversaturated DMV with every flavor of DA and ECNL you can imagine.

My kids do have aspirations to play in college and so far appear to have to potential to be able to play in college. When the time comes and they either change their mind or their abilities are not up to snuff then they will play the game in a more relaxed and hopefully fun environment.

It is always a game by game and year by year proposition.

Sounds like that is the right choice. At our current club for younger DC, we have 1 parent with a DC like yours on our top team, and then about half who are conflicted and confused and you can tell are just going to get sucked in not really weighing all the repercussions, and then the other half who were happy with the status quo and have a great player who loved soccer but not seeking college level. Would be nice to have a Pipeline type club around. The 1 parent with the college bound DC was probably noisy enough that they threatened to leave without a change to ECNL (or DA).

Maybe the majority will all be wishing they could carpool to Baltimore for Pipeline now!

[Anonymous]

This thread is DA vs. ECNL vs. Everything Else...........not much "Everything Else" left.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The costs and travel are insane. There are enough quality teams between Richmond and Baltimore or even Philly to play in 20+ games against national-level competition. There is no need to have to travel to Boston or South Carolina to find quality teams. Jefferson, Bethesda, DELCO, EDP Showcase, WAGS, and Spirit are all top 25, nationally-ranked showcase tournaments within three hours of DC. Why spend the tens of thousands of dollars and travel time and costs to chase some dream to play college soccer when there are other ways to do so.

You are probably being idealistic with your statement and in a perfect world, I would agree that high quality competition can be had with less travel than either DA or ECNL currently does. The reason ppl pay the fees for ECNL and DA is because that is what it takes within our current system to get the best development environments, competition, and exposure. Is it ideal? Certainly not, but it is the system in which we live. The top 20 teams within say 100 miles of DC do not play in the same leagues or enroll in the same tournaments. You can do quite well developing technical skills at HP Elite, with private training, on your own, etc, but it is very difficult to replace the game experience of playing with and against top quality players. Right now, you can't get that in our local leagues, CCL, VPL, NCSL, etc.

If you have the money and time to invest in and access to ECNL/DA then by all means do so. But for those who don't, there are other means to play with competitive teams. If I look at Reg I u18, there are ateast ten non-ECNL/DA teams ranked in the top 25 that are within a three hour drive of DC. I know the pro-ECNL/DA folks have bought into the idea that ECNL/DA the only game in town but the evidence does not bare that out. Sure, the ECNL is pound-for-pound the best and the DA has potential to produce teams as strong or stronger than the ECNL but today there are many non-ECNL/DA teams that are stronger. Again, Pipeline, Arlington, Loundon (Pre-ECNL), etc. produce teams that consistantly beat the strongest ECNL teams. Again, if you live in Baltimore why the hell would you take your DD out of Pipeline and commute 50 miles to play for Bethesda or Maryland United ECNL when your DD's Pipeline team beats the hell out of said teams several times a year at local tournaments. Please tell me when Duke or USNWT calls the coaches of said teams looking for talent, those coaches wont reference your DD. Again, I know that the ECNL/DA are strong leagues with strong teams but for those parents who don't have access, there are other avenues. As much as some people want to make soccer exclusive to those who have access to ECNL/DA there are other avenues. You don;t have to spend $10,000 a year or spend your weekends drivign to New England for games to play against the top teams.

You realize this isn’t a debate? If DA or ECNL are not logistically feasible then obviously you choose the best option nearby. Just don’t try and convince yourself that they are the same, they are not. But there is no shame in picking a strong team locally that saves some time and money. But don’t conflate your best option with the overall landscape. Did it occur to you that some Baltimore teams remain strong because there is no realistic, logistic DA/ECNL option for those kids?

Sure! I am not trying to convince myself. I have seen enough soccer to know that ECNL/DA is not the only avenue to make it to the big leagues. My problem is with who have convinced themselves that the ECNL/DA is the only way to deliver their kids to Div I soccer or the USWNT. Just take a look at the Jefferson Cup's top brackets. You will see a mix of ECNL and non-ECNL teams. Notice that at some age groups, it is the local non-ECNL teams in the top bracket playng against other ECNL teams from outside of the area. Again, not only are the non-ECNL teams better but they also compete against the top ECNL clubs in the nation and being seen by the top college coaches. Again, ECNL is a very competitive league but there are other competitive leagues including EDP and CCL, which is where the top teams in Region I play (Loudon, Arlington and others). Again, ECNL/DA makes sense for some families but doesn't for others. There are great alternatives to ECNL/DA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^PP

I don't disagree but I don't think most parents really care about the motives of US Soccer or ECNL. If both leagues offer a platform for their kids to be easily seen and US Soccer wants to claim "casting a wider" net, well it might just be a good idea to get caught in THAT net versus trying your luck hoping you get on a great team that gets into top brackets at the remaining "open" showcases.

A caveat: ONLY KNOWINGLY LET YOUR DC GET CAUGHT IN THAT DA OR ECNL NET IF ONE OF THE FOLLOWING TRUE:

(1) Your semi-elite DC (with no college aspirations) and family has the cache of money (8-10K a year) and time to blow on soccer and nothing else and doesn't want to play other sports through middle and high school; or

(2) Your DC has enough college aspirations right now such that they (as in the DC, not the parents living the dream) want that option so they can play in college and be seen by scouts from 8th grade to sophomore year HS. [In that case, it is a rare middle schooler that knows this, and nothing wrong with waiting. PPs mentioned DAs should start at high school age, as the parents of middle schoolers are only jumping in out of fear they won't later be able to get in. Just not true for a great player who later decided as an 8th grader or HS freshman to make college ball the end game.]

If, and only if, you meet one on the 2 caveats, then you are a lucky dog to live in the oversaturated DMV with every flavor of DA and ECNL you can imagine.

My kids do have aspirations to play in college and so far appear to have to potential to be able to play in college. When the time comes and they either change their mind or their abilities are not up to snuff then they will play the game in a more relaxed and hopefully fun environment.

It is always a game by game and year by year proposition.

Sounds like that is the right choice. At our current club for younger DC, we have 1 parent with a DC like yours on our top team, and then about half who are conflicted and confused and you can tell are just going to get sucked in not really weighing all the repercussions, and then the other half who were happy with the status quo and have a great player who loved soccer but not seeking college level. Would be nice to have a Pipeline type club around. The 1 parent with the college bound DC was probably noisy enough that they threatened to leave without a change to ECNL (or DA).

Maybe the majority will all be wishing they could carpool to Baltimore for Pipeline now!

Well, Pipeline says on their website that their younger girls teams are a feeder for Washington Spirit/Baltimore Armour for DA, sooo . . . . maybe not so different from NOVA options like FCV after all?

[Anonymous]

FCV has its own GDA. A better example is Arlington. Why couldn't Arlington just be a feeder for Spirit GDA, similar to Pipeline Soccer? I know they tried a year ago, but getting your own GDA seems to be an extreme result that changes what Pipeline Soccer offers its girls. No one at Pipeline has to leave for Spirit GDA, and you can be on the top team at Pipeline without doing GDA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FCV has its own GDA. A better example is Arlington. Why couldn't Arlington just be a feeder for Spirit GDA, similar to Pipeline Soccer? I know they tried a year ago, but getting your own GDA seems to be an extreme result that changes what Pipeline Soccer offers its girls. No one at Pipeline has to leave for Spirit GDA, and you can be on the top team at Pipeline without doing GDA.

Folks, It is marketing. No way Pipeline is allowing its best players leave for the Spirit, which is nothing more than a fly trap to attract unsuspecting parents and seperate them from $5,000.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCV has its own GDA. A better example is Arlington. Why couldn't Arlington just be a feeder for Spirit GDA, similar to Pipeline Soccer? I know they tried a year ago, but getting your own GDA seems to be an extreme result that changes what Pipeline Soccer offers its girls. No one at Pipeline has to leave for Spirit GDA, and you can be on the top team at Pipeline without doing GDA.

Folks, It is marketing. No way Pipeline is allowing its best players leave for the Spirit, which is nothing more than a fly trap to attract unsuspecting parents and seperate them from $5,000.

Except the fact that Pipeline is affiliated with Baltimore Armour, which is essentially the Spirit DA in MD. So Pipeline is a feeder club in agreement. And I don't quite know how Pipeline or any club simply grants permission to leave. The idea that they would not "allow their" players to leave assumes they have some contractual control over these players for multiple years.

My guess is you are the parent of a 05 or 06 girl who is on a good Pipeline team currently and you are concerned about players leaving for Spirit and thus diluting your teams current greatness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCV has its own GDA. A better example is Arlington. Why couldn't Arlington just be a feeder for Spirit GDA, similar to Pipeline Soccer? I know they tried a year ago, but getting your own GDA seems to be an extreme result that changes what Pipeline Soccer offers its girls. No one at Pipeline has to leave for Spirit GDA, and you can be on the top team at Pipeline without doing GDA.

Folks, It is marketing. No way Pipeline is allowing its best players leave for the Spirit, which is nothing more than a fly trap to attract unsuspecting parents and seperate them from $5,000.

Except the fact that Pipeline is affiliated with Baltimore Armour, which is essentially the Spirit DA in MD. So Pipeline is a feeder club in agreement. And I don't quite know how Pipeline or any club simply grants permission to leave. The idea that they would not "allow their" players to leave assumes they have some contractual control over these players for multiple years.

My guess is you are the parent of a 05 or 06 girl who is on a good Pipeline team currently and you are concerned about players leaving for Spirit and thus diluting your teams current greatness.

You're right. Pipeline can't control the players but if the Spirit were taking their best players and Pipeline could not longer produce compeitive teams, it would end the relationship. The other side is that if you are a Pipeline player and already playing against the best teams, getting recruited and playing HS soccer, why would you go to the Spirit?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCV has its own GDA. A better example is Arlington. Why couldn't Arlington just be a feeder for Spirit GDA, similar to Pipeline Soccer? I know they tried a year ago, but getting your own GDA seems to be an extreme result that changes what Pipeline Soccer offers its girls. No one at Pipeline has to leave for Spirit GDA, and you can be on the top team at Pipeline without doing GDA.

Folks, It is marketing. No way Pipeline is allowing its best players leave for the Spirit, which is nothing more than a fly trap to attract unsuspecting parents and seperate them from $5,000.

Except the fact that Pipeline is affiliated with Baltimore Armour, which is essentially the Spirit DA in MD. So Pipeline is a feeder club in agreement. And I don't quite know how Pipeline or any club simply grants permission to leave. The idea that they would not "allow their" players to leave assumes they have some contractual control over these players for multiple years.

My guess is you are the parent of a 05 or 06 girl who is on a good Pipeline team currently and you are concerned about players leaving for Spirit and thus diluting your teams current greatness.

You're right. Pipeline can't control the players but if the Spirit were taking their best players and Pipeline could not longer produce compeitive teams, it would end the relationship. The other side is that if you are a Pipeline player and already playing against the best teams, getting recruited and playing HS soccer, why would you go to the Spirit?

That's not how it works. Parents and kids will seek out these options on their own regardless of club affiliation. No matter the formal agreement no club has any control over where a player chooses to play. A club does not enter a relationship like this not realizing that they will lose good players. The fact is, they likely would have lost them anyway but at least this way Pipeline can sell the potential of a pathway that only a small percentage of kids will actually qualify for anyways. Pipeline will remain successful in their leagues and tournaments because other clubs are in the same boat. So it is best to attract talent early because of the "pathway" offered through these club agreements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^PP

I don't disagree but I don't think most parents really care about the motives of US Soccer or ECNL. If both leagues offer a platform for their kids to be easily seen and US Soccer wants to claim "casting a wider" net, well it might just be a good idea to get caught in THAT net versus trying your luck hoping you get on a great team that gets into top brackets at the remaining "open" showcases.

A caveat: ONLY KNOWINGLY LET YOUR DC GET CAUGHT IN THAT DA OR ECNL NET IF ONE OF THE FOLLOWING TRUE:

(1) Your semi-elite DC (with no college aspirations) and family has the cache of money (8-10K a year) and time to blow on soccer and nothing else and doesn't want to play other sports through middle and high school; or

(2) Your DC has enough college aspirations right now such that they (as in the DC, not the parents living the dream) want that option so they can play in college and be seen by scouts from 8th grade to sophomore year HS. [In that case, it is a rare middle schooler that knows this, and nothing wrong with waiting. PPs mentioned DAs should start at high school age, as the parents of middle schoolers are only jumping in out of fear they won't later be able to get in. Just not true for a great player who later decided as an 8th grader or HS freshman to make college ball the end game.]

If, and only if, you meet one on the 2 caveats, then you are a lucky dog to live in the oversaturated DMV with every flavor of DA and ECNL you can imagine.

My kids do have aspirations to play in college and so far appear to have to potential to be able to play in college. When the time comes and they either change their mind or their abilities are not up to snuff then they will play the game in a more relaxed and hopefully fun environment.

It is always a game by game and year by year proposition.

Sounds like that is the right choice. At our current club for younger DC, we have 1 parent with a DC like yours on our top team, and then about half who are conflicted and confused and you can tell are just going to get sucked in not really weighing all the repercussions, and then the other half who were happy with the status quo and have a great player who loved soccer but not seeking college level. Would be nice to have a Pipeline type club around. The 1 parent with the college bound DC was probably noisy enough that they threatened to leave without a change to ECNL (or DA).

Maybe the majority will all be wishing they could carpool to Baltimore for Pipeline now!

Why is this so hard to understand? Clubs like Loudon, Pipeline and Arlington do not play 2nd fiddle to ECNL clubs or DA. These teams are just as intense or even more so than ECNL. These players are also heading to Div I. Just remember that only two clubs in MD and two (moving to three) in NoVA have ECNL. Those five teams and the DA teams do not have all the talent in the DMV. You folks are delusional if you believe they do. To assume that your kid could show up and play for a strong Loudon, Arlington or Pipeline team is insane.

[Anonymous]

^^PP Then if Loudoun and Arlington didn’t feel like they were still powerhouses and not losing talent why did Loudoun partner with FCV and then apply for and get EXNL? Why did Arlington apply for and rumored to have been granted GDA to go along with their current boys DA. Why is Pipeline currently in a partnership with Armour and Spirit?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^PP Then if Loudoun and Arlington didn’t feel like they were still powerhouses and not losing talent why did Loudoun partner with FCV and then apply for and get EXNL? Why did Arlington apply for and rumored to have been granted GDA to go along with their current boys DA. Why is Pipeline currently in a partnership with Armour and Spirit?

With respect, it is because of lemmings like you. These clubs are all competetive and no one wants to be left out especially when they produce a better-quality product than the other clubs that have ECNL or DA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCV has its own GDA. A better example is Arlington. Why couldn't Arlington just be a feeder for Spirit GDA, similar to Pipeline Soccer? I know they tried a year ago, but getting your own GDA seems to be an extreme result that changes what Pipeline Soccer offers its girls. No one at Pipeline has to leave for Spirit GDA, and you can be on the top team at Pipeline without doing GDA.

Folks, It is marketing. No way Pipeline is allowing its best players leave for the Spirit, which is nothing more than a fly trap to attract unsuspecting parents and seperate them from $5,000.

Except the fact that Pipeline is affiliated with Baltimore Armour, which is essentially the Spirit DA in MD. So Pipeline is a feeder club in agreement. And I don't quite know how Pipeline or any club simply grants permission to leave. The idea that they would not "allow their" players to leave assumes they have some contractual control over these players for multiple years.

My guess is you are the parent of a 05 or 06 girl who is on a good Pipeline team currently and you are concerned about players leaving for Spirit and thus diluting your teams current greatness.

You're right. Pipeline can't control the players but if the Spirit were taking their best players and Pipeline could not longer produce compeitive teams, it would end the relationship. The other side is that if you are a Pipeline player and already playing against the best teams, getting recruited and playing HS soccer, why would you go to the Spirit?

To offer a snapshot of how this plays out let’s use Loudoun as an example. They are considered a powerhouse club. Every girls Red team from U10-U13 is ranked 1st in the state. Every Single One.

Then comes U14, U15, U16 etc...and where is Loudoun Red ranked then?
Overall somewhere between 8th and 21st but mostly between 8-11th in the State.

So what happened to those number 1 ranked teams at U14? I’ll answer it for you, ECNL and DA. Loudoun always lost top players to clubs in those leagues. While they still remained competitive a 7-20 point drop is not insignificant.

So what does Loudoun do? They eventually get granted membership to ECNL as way of retaining the players they had traditionally lost.

[Anonymous]

Great point! How do Pipeline and Arlington remain competitive? At U17, Loudon and Arlington are in the top 3.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^PP Then if Loudoun and Arlington didn’t feel like they were still powerhouses and not losing talent why did Loudoun partner with FCV and then apply for and get EXNL? Why did Arlington apply for and rumored to have been granted GDA to go along with their current boys DA. Why is Pipeline currently in a partnership with Armour and Spirit?

With respect, it is because of lemmings like you. These clubs are all competetive and no one wants to be left out especially when they produce a better-quality product than the other clubs that have ECNL or DA.

How has Pipeline done at Jeff Cup? Will I regularly find champions or finalists in the top brackets in multiple age groups?