Bad News for Test Prep Parents

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The bottom line is that the scores of these AAP identification tests are affected when kids have been practicing with materials that replicate past tests. Some people know this and have decided to make some money off this fact. The more they can convince young parents that:
a: a child's intelligence is dependent on how many of this business's worksheets the child does and,
b: that there is no good education available in FCPS except in AAP and,
c: the best way to get a child into AAP is to use our services/products,
the more money they will make.

They do not want the school to know that kids have been prepped, because they know that the scores would then be taken less seriously. It would certainly be bad for business for the schools to know which second graders have been doing practice questions from old tests at camps or classes or clubs or just at home with a parent. Even the idea that teachers might be asking kids at school if they have seen questions like these before could be bad for business. Parents may hesitate to buy into test prep programs or materials if they hear that the schools might not use test results from kids who say they have seen questions like this before.

Most of these businesses sell other types of tutoring and test prep so they will not lose their shirts if FCPS were to stop using these tests or drop the AAP.
But it would eat into their profits to a certain extent.

This post is most likely the reason for the anti-FCPS screeds. Some people just do not like it when other people disagree with them.

And while SAT/ACT prep is not the same as prepping for the AAP identification tests, make sure you don't suggest that there are actually people in the world who don't need to take SAT prep courses to get high scores. Some people really do not like to hear that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The Washington Post article above (21:32) is about a young man with a 2270 SAT score who did not get accepted at JMU. Unfortunately, he had a 3.4 GPA. Even considering that this happened back before FCPS had changed its grading policies, a high SAT score just can not make up for a lower GPA.

This score was only 170 points away from perfect, but it did not matter without the GPA to back it up. A perfect score would not have made a difference in this case. Many schools don't even look at SAT/ACT scores so it is really the GPA and course choices that matter the most.

[Anonymous]

Colleges do not care about perfect SAT scores. (1) Anything over 2200 is in essentially the same category and for many schools anything over 2100. They want to see a high GPA in the most rigorous course load available at the student's high school.

Students in FCPS take the PSAT once or twice, maybe even three times before they need to take the SAT. Ninth graders with high PSAT scores without prepping are very likely to get equally high or higher scores on the SAT.

(2)

(1) No one said this. But if a student can get an A even if a B is all that is required the student usually goes for the A. It's not natural to hold back.

(2) High performing 9th graders with high PSAT scores are generally studious and hard working. These students don't usually change course or their behavior because they got a high PSAT. They continue with their preparation and good work habits and in general will continue to perform well. Many of these same students have been taking standardized tests yearly since elementary school for the State, school, and AAP.

[Anonymous]

The Washington Post article above (21:32) is about a young man with a 2270 SAT score who did not get accepted at JMU. Unfortunately, he had a 3.4 GPA. Even considering that this happened back before FCPS had changed its grading policies, a high SAT score just can not make up for a lower GPA.



This score was only 170 points away from perfect, but it did not matter without the GPA to back it up. A perfect score would not have made a difference in this case. Many schools don't even look at SAT/ACT scores so it is really the GPA and course choices that matter the most.

This proves nothing. One does not have complete information. I have seen Valedictorians with perfect SAT scores get rejected from facts contained in letters of reference (lukewarm recommendations, character issues, history of plagiarism, etc).

Your scenario does not proove causation. You did not have the full picture of the candidate.

[Anonymous]

And while SAT/ACT prep is not the same as prepping for the AAP identification tests, make sure you don't suggest that there are actually people in the world who don't need to take SAT prep courses to get high scores. Some people really do not like to hear that.

There is nothing wrong with "SAT prep courses", "SAT prep classes" or "SAT self/solo prep". It's all SAT prep. Much like FCPS, charter school, catholic school, private school or home school. Folk in each of these SAT prep or school environments can have top GPAs and SAT scores. Only one without creativity and concrete thinking ability draws the conclusion the only way to prep for the SAT is to attend "SAT prep classes".

Yes, the poster is correct. One doesn't have to take "SAT prep courses" to prep for the SAT test and get high scores. No one has said otherwise.

[Anonymous]

There is nothing wrong with "SAT prep courses", "SAT prep classes" or "SAT self/solo prep". It's all SAT prep. Much like FCPS, charter school, catholic school, private school or home school. Folk in each of these SAT prep or school environments can have top GPAs and SAT scores. Only one without creativity and concrete thinking ability draws the conclusion the only way to prep for the SAT is to attend "SAT prep classes".

Yes, the poster is correct. One doesn't have to take "SAT prep courses" to prep for the SAT test and get high scores. No one has said otherwise.

Nicely put. The poster with lack of creativity thinks the only way to get an education is to go to a bricks and mortar school house with a teacher standing in from of the room.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

There is nothing wrong with "SAT prep courses", "SAT prep classes" or "SAT self/solo prep". It's all SAT prep. Much like FCPS, charter school, catholic school, private school or home school. Folk in each of these SAT prep or school environments can have top GPAs and SAT scores. Only one without creativity and concrete thinking ability draws the conclusion the only way to prep for the SAT is to attend "SAT prep classes".

Yes, the poster is correct. One doesn't have to take "SAT prep courses" to prep for the SAT test and get high scores. No one has said otherwise.

Nicely put. The poster with lack of creativity thinks the only way to get an education is to go to a bricks and mortar school house with a teacher standing in from of the room.

And some kids don't even have to prepare for the SAT at all. That's what really gets people worked up. But's it's true and it's life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The Washington Post article above (21:32) is about a young man with a 2270 SAT score who did not get accepted at JMU. Unfortunately, he had a 3.4 GPA. Even considering that this happened back before FCPS had changed its grading policies, a high SAT score just can not make up for a lower GPA.

it's true; you need both. But it can just as easily go the other way, low SAT and good grades won't get you there either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Colleges do not care about perfect SAT scores. Anything over 2200 is in essentially the same category and for many schools anything over 2100. They want to see a high GPA in the most rigorous course load available at the student's high school.

Students in FCPS take the PSAT once or twice, maybe even three times before they need to take the SAT. Ninth graders with high PSAT scores without prepping are very likely to get equally high or higher scores on the SAT.

well that's saying a mouthful. What % of the test takers get over a 2200 on the SAT?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The Washington Post article above (21:32) is about a young man with a 2270 SAT score who did not get accepted at JMU. Unfortunately, he had a 3.4 GPA. Even considering that this happened back before FCPS had changed its grading policies, a high SAT score just can not make up for a lower GPA.



This score was only 170 points away from perfect, but it did not matter without the GPA to back it up. A perfect score would not have made a difference in this case. Many schools don't even look at SAT/ACT scores so it is really the GPA and course choices that matter the most.

This proves nothing. One does not have complete information. I have seen Valedictorians with perfect SAT scores get rejected from facts contained in letters of reference (lukewarm recommendations, character issues, history of plagiarism, etc).

Your scenario does not proove causation. You did not have the full picture of the candidate.

not just that but grades are handed out like candy at some schools in some jurisdictions that want the kids to have high self esteem so these "valedictorians" get into college like say Delaware St. and it turns out they need remedial math, English ... but hey they were valedictorians.

[Anonymous]

Touche

it's true; you need both. But it can just as easily go the other way, low SAT and good grades won't get you there either.

More nonsense, I know 3 published students with good grades and low SAT scores who went to Harvard. If they were not published (unique) they probably would not have gotten in -- even with good grades and high SATs. Many applicants are nothing special therefore you had better have high GPAs and high SATs scores if you want to clear the 5% cut. Even then, it's a crap shoot.

I understand why you may wish to counsel other childern not to prepare for the SAT but for God's sake don't give your own children that advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Touche

it's true; you need both. But it can just as easily go the other way, low SAT and good grades won't get you there either.

More nonsense, I know 3 published students with good grades and low SAT scores who went to Harvard. If they were not published (unique) they probably would not have gotten in -- even with good grades and high SATs. Many applicants are nothing special therefore you had better have high GPAs and high SATs scores if you want to clear the 5% cut. Even then, it's a crap shoot.

I understand why you may wish to counsel other childern not to prepare for the SAT but for God's sake don't give your own children that advice.

I know several people with good grades and low SATs at NOVA. So we can go around and around on this all day

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Touche

it's true; you need both. But it can just as easily go the other way, low SAT and good grades won't get you there either.

More nonsense, I know 3 published students with good grades and low SAT scores who went to Harvard. If they were not published (unique) they probably would not have gotten in -- even with good grades and high SATs. Many applicants are nothing special therefore you had better have high GPAs and high SATs scores if you want to clear the 5% cut. Even then, it's a crap shoot.

I understand why you may wish to counsel other childern not to prepare for the SAT but for God's sake don't give your own children that advice.

? I wrote the post you are quoting, stand by it, but in no way was suggesting children should not prep for the SAT. Quite the opposite. It is important. Take it seriously!

[Anonymous]

not just that but grades are handed out like candy at some schools in some jurisdictions that want the kids to have high self esteem so these "valedictorians" get into college like say Delaware St. and it turns out they need remedial math, English ... but hey they were valedictorians.

So very true.

What percentage of FCPS make the honor roll? (up to 50% in some schools)
What percentage of FCPS have straight As? (up to 20% in some high performing schools)
What rational student in this setting will listen to their wise parent and simply blow off a meaningless SAT test for admission to UVA or Harvard? (not many where I live)

Peyton Manning is correct. Hard work and preparation is the better road taken to success than leaving things to chance.

[Anonymous]

I know several people with good grades and low SATs at NOVA. So we can go around and around on this all day

Yes, we are well aware these 3 people are part of your household.