Bad News for Test Prep Parents

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bottom line is that the scores of these AAP identification tests are affected when kids have been practicing with materials that replicate past tests. Some people know this and have decided to make some money off this fact. The more they can convince young parents that:
a: a child's intelligence is dependent on how many of this business's worksheets the child does and,
b: that there is no good education available in FCPS except in AAP and,
c: the best way to get a child into AAP is to use our services/products,
the more money they will make.

They do not want the school to know that kids have been prepped, because they know that the scores would then be taken less seriously. It would certainly be bad for business for the schools to know which second graders have been doing practice questions from old tests at camps or classes or clubs or just at home with a parent. Even the idea that teachers might be asking kids at school if they have seen questions like these before could be bad for business. Parents may hesitate to buy into test prep programs or materials if they hear that the schools might not use test results from kids who say they have seen questions like this before.

Most of these businesses sell other types of tutoring and test prep so they will not lose their shirts if FCPS were to stop using these tests or drop the AAP.
But it would eat into their profits to a certain extent.

It's funny that, in a thread about identification tests for a program for elementary and middle school students, there have been multiple posts about tests taken by high school students. FCPS has had to change the identification tests because of one kind of prepping that is inappropriate for that particular test, which has a different function than the SATs/ACTs.
But still, post after post filled with bromides about the wonders of preparation appears, seemingly in hopes that parents will conflate SAT/ACT preparation with prepping for these first and second grade tests. As though to say, "If it is good for the SATs/ACTs, than it must be good for these tests, too!"

Just trying to get the thread back on track.

Some people would rather people not see this information.

[Anonymous]

Interesting article. IQ doesn't predict success or even academic achievement. IQ is simply that which is measured on an IQ test. Beyond that, in the real world, it means squat. So why FCPS places any value in the WISC is dubious. The GBRS is a much better indicator of academic success.

Peyton Manning and Tom Brady understand this. They are not fooled by their hot genes and NFL combine scores. They understand success, preparation and hard work. Isn't that why we all where their jerseys and hang up their posters in or mansions. Be like Peyton.

[Anonymous]

The FCPS goon squad would censor the truth. Aptitude, intelligence, and IQ are fixed. You can't prepare or study for these tests. You can increase your score on school exams through prep but not aptitude tests or tests labelled IQ. Preparation is cheating. This is futile as these scores can't changed. It's immutable. Peyton, Tom and Phelps were all born with lofty and keen natural talent. These guys would be on top if they just hung out at the beach. Their extraordinary hard work and preparation has nothing to do with their success since it came from mommy and daddy in the genes. These tests are not achievement tests. You can only improve your scores on an achievement test through preparation. A good night's sleep and green eggs and ham is the key to performance. This is all one needs and everything will be fine. My kids did not prep or take a prep class. My kids took 20 practice tests from Princeton, Barron and Blue Book but they did not take a class and did not prepare...they are gifted

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tracy-alloway-phd-and-ross-alloway-phd/iq-tests_b_4168628.html

See what happens when information is censored?

The end of the IQ test and screening tests for AAP. It appears some have caught on to the political tactics of those who have used these inventions and concepts like IQ and race for self-serving social engineering.

--signed Marsahall (8-year-old son of Peyton Manning)

Take advantage of the information age with hard work and preparation. Information is all around us and everywhere. Ignore all the budding DCUM communists who wish to sanitize FCPS by ridding our communities of information and dictating what information is acceptable. In the 17th and 18th century they were successful at this. Virginians even prosecuted and killed Americans for reading, writing and attending schools. The information age is now equalizing the playing field and these pathetic slugs don't like it.

On track now

Interesting article. IQ doesn't predict success or even academic achievement. IQ is simply that which is measured on an IQ test. Beyond that, in the real world, it means squat. So why FCPS places any value in the WISC is dubious. The GBRS is a much better indicator of academic success.

Well, I'm sure you realize that working memory is a part of IQ tests right?

There are a TON of other research that shows that IQ does indeed predict many positive things, including academic achievement. They tested kids at 5, then checked their grades at 11. IQ's at 5 are notoriously affected by home environment, both positively and negatively.
IQ's at a later age are much more stable and indicative of a childs intelligence. They would get VERY different results IMO if they tested IQ at age 10 and them followed them for 15 years. But of course they don't want to do that, because they're trying to promote the book they're selling.

[Anonymous]

Peyton Manning and Tom Brady understand this. They are not fooled by their hot genes and NFL combine scores. They understand success, preparation and hard work. Isn't that why we all where their jerseys and hang up their posters in or mansions. Be like Peyton.

Ha, ha. We all want the glory and to be like Peyton and Tom on Sunday under the lights but most of us don't want to go through the drudgery or preparation and hard work from Monday through Saturday.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Peyton Manning and Tom Brady understand this. They are not fooled by their hot genes and NFL combine scores. They understand success, preparation and hard work. Isn't that why we all where their jerseys and hang up their posters in or mansions. Be like Peyton.

Ha, ha. We all want the glory and to be like Peyton and Tom on Sunday under the lights but most of us don't want to go through the drudgery or preparation and hard work from Monday through Saturday.

or take the hits.

[Anonymous]

Well, I'm sure you realize that working memory is a part of IQ tests right?

There are a TON of other research that shows that IQ does indeed predict many positive things, including academic achievement. They tested kids at 5, then checked their grades at 11. IQ's at 5 are notoriously affected by home environment, both positively and negatively.
IQ's at a later age are much more stable and indicative of a childs intelligence. They would get VERY different results IMO if they tested IQ at age 10 and them followed them for 15 years. But of course they don't want to do that, because they're trying to promote the book they're selling.

If you use your brain, even after 15 years, your measured IQ will improve. Just like muscle. I see document this all the time in my medical practice. The physiology and plasticity of the brain is as marvelous as that of skeletal muscle.

The authors of the book simply do not have the long-term follow-up. Longitudinal studies take time and resources to execute.

[Anonymous]

All, test results are only a small fraction of the kids in AAP. The vast majority are there not because of their test results (only the top 3-5% are in the pool), but because their teachers say they can handle it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All, test results are only a small fraction of the kids in AAP. The vast majority are there not because of their test results (only the top 3-5% are in the pool), but because their teachers say they can handle it.

Actually, the pool is somewhat bigger than that. It was about 10% f the county. That means that 10% of the county scored better than 132 on the NNAT or 132 on the CogAT (any section prior to 2012, or composite in 2012). 132 is 98%; but one section is a much lower threshold. Put in uncertainties in the test, and the fact that FCPS scores above national average, result in 2000 kids on average in pool. In 2012, there was a surge in the number of in-pool: 3000, even using the composite score instead of any subsection. It is believed that part of the surge was because of increasing test prep*, though the change from Form 6 to Form 7 may have factored in. 2000 in pool is 13% of the county; 3000 is is 20% or so. The pool used to be called the 13% pool for a reason.

In 2013, FCPS changed the test, and said the top 5% of the FxAT are in pool. I do not know how many were in pool overally, but 5% made it in based on the FxAT, by definition.

*Note that if, 20% of the county were prepping, and it averaged a 30 point jump, then more than 1/2 of the 20% would reach the baseline for in-pool (average FxAT score is above 100). lets assume 50%. Lets assume 8% would be in pool under the old rules for the CogAT, unprepped (the other 5% are in pool from the NNAT).

Unprepped kids would be 80% * 8% = 6.4% of the county: unprepped in pool]
Prepped kids would be 20% of the county * 50% admmision = 10% of the county.

So 16.4% of the county is in pool based on the cogAT, with prep.

So, prep can account for the surge of in-pool applicants.

It would be interesting to see what demographics were in pool that year. I bet there will be a surge in certain cultures relative to others.

[Anonymous]

...It is believed that part of the surge was because of increasing test prep*, though the change from Form 6 to Form 7 may have factored in. 2000 in pool is 13% of the county; 3000 is is 20% or so. The pool ...used to be called the 13% pool for a reason.

Most likely and tenable explanation is the economy over the last 8 years which has taken private options of the table (or at least delayed them). If private school is not an option then AAP is an option for these clients. It's not about people stealing tests and overnight prepping. The latter speculation is a smoke screen.

[Anonymous]

I AGREE. It's a matter of simple supply and demand, not test prepping the stolen test materials. The supply and demand imbalance is slowly squeezing out kids nd families who can't compete. And these children and families don't like it. Stealing test material is not the reason, it's a poor excuse for an argument made by FCPS and allies.

[Anonymous]

The pool used to be called the 13% pool for a reason.

In the early 2000's it was called the 10% pool.

[Anonymous]

The demographics of the AAP pool has changed today from yesterday. The old majority of the AAP doesn't like the fact the new majority has pushed them out. The old majority is now crying foul, cheaters and test stealers. The same has happened at TJ, magnet programs and highly gifted centers aroung the DC area and the country. The new majority has quietly academically out performed and eased out the old majority and the latter doesn't like it. The only people complaining here are the old majority or those who believe they belong to that club. The explanation for these dynamics are rather simple.

Even if you are born with a silver spoon in your mouth and loaded with genetic talent from mommy and daddy Peyton Manning still understands the importance of hard work and preparation for success. Some in academics haven't learned this lesson.

[Anonymous]

the test prep was something that really began happening two or three years ago. It is costing the county money to rescale/combat. This is money that could otherwise be used for teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:the test prep was something that really began happening two or three years ago. It is costing the county money to rescale/combat. This is money that could otherwise be used for teachers.

Agreed.