Lost, considering returning to Catholicism despite disagreeing with so much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP seriously you believe in everything Catholics do not.

Pro Choice
Gay marriage
Divorce

Why would you want to be part of something that condones chiid abusers and is against the things you believe in?

How about Unitarian? Or Episcopalian?.

Millions or catholics are pro choice, pro gay marriage, fine with divorce, think women should be priests and church leaders, etc.

Yes but those like you lack the support from church leaders and their doctrine specifically calls you grave sinners. The Church will never change wrt those issues you listed, especially as the conservative third world gains more influence in Rome and grows in numbers. Your feckless church is even acting incredibly irresponsible in criticizing the world’s most influential and devout Catholic for his progressiveness and support for abortion and equality for the trans-community.
Why put up with that dishonesty and assault on decency? You can find a home in the Episcopal church where issues important to you are permitted and even celebrated.

“[The] world’s most influential and devout Catholic for his progressiveness and support for abortion[.]”

Yup, that guy puts to shame all those feckless sinners rattling their beads in the pew, especially the ones feeding the hungry, giving drink to the thirsty, sheltering the homeless, visiting the sick, etc., without ever leaving the boundaries of their parish.

Support for the destruction of innocent life, any individual victim of which might have done untold good in the world had they not been killed, is as retrograde an act as ever could be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am Catholic. My husband was raised Lutheran, and we looked at several churches before coming back to Catholicism.

I also enjoy the quiet and contemplative mass. Despite the reputation to the contrary, I don’t feel that I am told what to believe about social and political
topics during Catholic mass. I also feel that there is definitely room to disagree and debate the tenents of Catholicism. My husband went through RCIA, and he was very skeptical and had a lot of questions. I think that at times he was frustrated that he got less answers than he wanted, but I don’t think that I have ever heard anyone discouraged from questioning.

I hope that you consider returning, op. I think you will find that you see some things differently with adult eyes.

It may not be the "tenants of Catholicism" that bother OP so much, but rather the child sex abuse.

The same tired refrain, over and over, with no acknowledgement of the age of many of the accusations; the frequent absence of any corroboration beyond the word of the accuser, often against a dead person; the identical issues in other institutions including other churches and governmental entities; the steps the Church has taken to correct things; or the fact that sex abuse claims against the Church long ago became an industry because of the Church’s deep pockets, institutional size and presence, and reticence to defend even obviously false claims. Not to mention the political value of the scarlet letter to distract from the truth of the Church’s teaching on certain issues, particularly the right to life.

Wow -- talk about "the same tired refrain"!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP seriously you believe in everything Catholics do not.

Pro Choice
Gay marriage
Divorce

Why would you want to be part of something that condones chiid abusers and is against the things you believe in?

How about Unitarian? Or Episcopalian?.

Perhaps the OP has other beliefs the correspond with the church.
The core social values in Catholicism are:

1). Respect for life and dignity of all people.
2) Call to participate in family and community
3). Fundamental rights to life and human decency coupled with responsibility to provide those things to others.
4). Preferential treatment for the poor and vulnerable
5) Dignity and rights of workers
6). Care of the planet.
7). The promotion of justice and peace.

1) Then why do they lobby congress to make lenient laws for sexual abuse
2) Calls to whom? not everybody, they are not inclusive
3) Yet they pay for politicians that create laws against that.
4) Preferential? No, they lobby for low riches for the rich and less resources for the poor and mentally ill.
6) Have you seen the parking lot of a Catholic church?
7) No they lobby for laws that protect pedophiles.

This is such an interesting perspective. I'm sorry that you feel this way about the church or feel that these things are advocated within the Church.

I can tell you that while no one is perfect, if you look through the lives of the saints and other holy people within the Catholic church, the virtues and values that are lauded are those that I listed above.

Saint Teresa of Calcutta
https://catholicsaints.info/saint-teresa-of-calcutta/

Saint Dulce of the Poor
https://catholicsaints.info/saint-maria-rita-lopes-pontes-de-souza-brito/

Venerable Marcello Labor
https://catholicsaints.info/venerable-marcello-labor/

Saint Thérèse of Lisieux (the little flower)
https://catholicsaints.info/saint-therese-of-lisieux/


There are many, many more examples.
These are the people that we try to use as examples to lead us in our own lives here on earth. Of course, most of us fall far short.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to admit something that I'm still grappling with. I went to Catholic school through 12th grade. HS was very progressive for its time, so no issues whatsoever. Even as a much younger kid, I'd disagree (in my mind) with so much of it.

My son attended excellent public k-12. He's class of 2021, and is attending a Jesuit University. He's enjoying new friends, loves his classes and professors. During the college app process, I convinced myself that this wasn't the school for him. Hadn't given it much thought because he applied to 11 schools, accepted to some that he loved, deferred/waitlisted at others.

He chose this college as soon as he was accepted, and withdrew all acceptances, waitlists, and deferrals. While I'm so proud of him, I definitely feel a twinge of shame and I don't know why! It's not directed solely at Catholicism, but organized religion in general.

There's a lot to love about the school that accepts all identities and religions, provides places of prayer for other denominations, leans very liberal, and is doing a bang up job at giving students an outlet to express their generation's angst on issues, including the history of religious injustices. I'll attend mass at the University chapel when invited for parent events because I haven't attended in a long time. I still love the feeling in church, it's calm in the chaos. I do have faith in something greater and divine, call it what you will. Like others have said, it's between me and my God, the rest is just fluff. I vote, therefore I am. (a dem)

This is one of the things I don't understand. How can the Jesuits create such awesome experiences on college campuses, then it all falls apart afterward?

OP, one of the things that has helped me is following Jesuits online. We don't have a Jesuit parish near me, but if we did, that's where I'd go.

Jesuits don't answer to the Pope. He's not their boss. That's not to say they're not guilty of turning a blind eye. I've avoided digging since my kid is there now. I did see an Instagram post on one of the non official accounts demanding accountability on their part when multiple lawsuits came to light. Another demanding accountability on funds funneled to support anything associated with misdoings. The kids aren't afraid to call them out on campus issues, crappy dining halls etc. They just throw money at them and tell them to start a club for their cause lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to admit something that I'm still grappling with. I went to Catholic school through 12th grade. HS was very progressive for its time, so no issues whatsoever. Even as a much younger kid, I'd disagree (in my mind) with so much of it.

My son attended excellent public k-12. He's class of 2021, and is attending a Jesuit University. He's enjoying new friends, loves his classes and professors. During the college app process, I convinced myself that this wasn't the school for him. Hadn't given it much thought because he applied to 11 schools, accepted to some that he loved, deferred/waitlisted at others.

He chose this college as soon as he was accepted, and withdrew all acceptances, waitlists, and deferrals. While I'm so proud of him, I definitely feel a twinge of shame and I don't know why! It's not directed solely at Catholicism, but organized religion in general.

There's a lot to love about the school that accepts all identities and religions, provides places of prayer for other denominations, leans very liberal, and is doing a bang up job at giving students an outlet to express their generation's angst on issues, including the history of religious injustices. I'll attend mass at the University chapel when invited for parent events because I haven't attended in a long time. I still love the feeling in church, it's calm in the chaos. I do have faith in something greater and divine, call it what you will. Like others have said, it's between me and my God, the rest is just fluff. I vote, therefore I am. (a dem)

This is one of the things I don't understand. How can the Jesuits create such awesome experiences on college campuses, then it all falls apart afterward?

OP, one of the things that has helped me is following Jesuits online. We don't have a Jesuit parish near me, but if we did, that's where I'd go.

Jesuits don't answer to the Pope. He's not their boss. That's not to say they're not guilty of turning a blind eye. I've avoided digging since my kid is there now. I did see an Instagram post on one of the non official accounts demanding accountability on their part when multiple lawsuits came to light. Another demanding accountability on funds funneled to support anything associated with misdoings. The kids aren't afraid to call them out on campus issues, crappy dining halls etc. They just throw money at them and tell them to start a club for their cause lol.

Jesuits actually take a special vow of obedience to the Pope. He's definitely their boss.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to admit something that I'm still grappling with. I went to Catholic school through 12th grade. HS was very progressive for its time, so no issues whatsoever. Even as a much younger kid, I'd disagree (in my mind) with so much of it.

My son attended excellent public k-12. He's class of 2021, and is attending a Jesuit University. He's enjoying new friends, loves his classes and professors. During the college app process, I convinced myself that this wasn't the school for him. Hadn't given it much thought because he applied to 11 schools, accepted to some that he loved, deferred/waitlisted at others.

He chose this college as soon as he was accepted, and withdrew all acceptances, waitlists, and deferrals. While I'm so proud of him, I definitely feel a twinge of shame and I don't know why! It's not directed solely at Catholicism, but organized religion in general.

There's a lot to love about the school that accepts all identities and religions, provides places of prayer for other denominations, leans very liberal, and is doing a bang up job at giving students an outlet to express their generation's angst on issues, including the history of religious injustices. I'll attend mass at the University chapel when invited for parent events because I haven't attended in a long time. I still love the feeling in church, it's calm in the chaos. I do have faith in something greater and divine, call it what you will. Like others have said, it's between me and my God, the rest is just fluff. I vote, therefore I am. (a dem)

This is one of the things I don't understand. How can the Jesuits create such awesome experiences on college campuses, then it all falls apart afterward?

OP, one of the things that has helped me is following Jesuits online. We don't have a Jesuit parish near me, but if we did, that's where I'd go.

Jesuits don't answer to the Pope. He's not their boss. That's not to say they're not guilty of turning a blind eye. I've avoided digging since my kid is there now. I did see an Instagram post on one of the non official accounts demanding accountability on their part when multiple lawsuits came to light. Another demanding accountability on funds funneled to support anything associated with misdoings. The kids aren't afraid to call them out on campus issues, crappy dining halls etc. They just throw money at them and tell them to start a club for their cause lol.

Jesuits - like all Catholics - do absolutely answer to the Pope.
They may not answer to their local Bishop (depending on the exact structure of the specific diocese in question) but they absolutely answer to the Pope. And currently, the Pope himself is a Jesuit!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to admit something that I'm still grappling with. I went to Catholic school through 12th grade. HS was very progressive for its time, so no issues whatsoever. Even as a much younger kid, I'd disagree (in my mind) with so much of it.

My son attended excellent public k-12. He's class of 2021, and is attending a Jesuit University. He's enjoying new friends, loves his classes and professors. During the college app process, I convinced myself that this wasn't the school for him. Hadn't given it much thought because he applied to 11 schools, accepted to some that he loved, deferred/waitlisted at others.

He chose this college as soon as he was accepted, and withdrew all acceptances, waitlists, and deferrals. While I'm so proud of him, I definitely feel a twinge of shame and I don't know why! It's not directed solely at Catholicism, but organized religion in general.

There's a lot to love about the school that accepts all identities and religions, provides places of prayer for other denominations, leans very liberal, and is doing a bang up job at giving students an outlet to express their generation's angst on issues, including the history of religious injustices. I'll attend mass at the University chapel when invited for parent events because I haven't attended in a long time. I still love the feeling in church, it's calm in the chaos. I do have faith in something greater and divine, call it what you will. Like others have said, it's between me and my God, the rest is just fluff. I vote, therefore I am. (a dem)

This is one of the things I don't understand. How can the Jesuits create such awesome experiences on college campuses, then it all falls apart afterward?

OP, one of the things that has helped me is following Jesuits online. We don't have a Jesuit parish near me, but if we did, that's where I'd go.

Jesuits don't answer to the Pope. He's not their boss. That's not to say they're not guilty of turning a blind eye. I've avoided digging since my kid is there now. I did see an Instagram post on one of the non official accounts demanding accountability on their part when multiple lawsuits came to light. Another demanding accountability on funds funneled to support anything associated with misdoings. The kids aren't afraid to call them out on campus issues, crappy dining halls etc. They just throw money at them and tell them to start a club for their cause lol.

Jesuits actually take a special vow of obedience to the Pope. He's definitely their boss.

This, they were literally kicked out of catholic countries over it

[Anonymous]

I have some similar issues with OP. Struggled for so long with Catholic religion. I was attending a progressive RC church that really tried to do the right thing. I enjoyed the music and homilies.

But when it was time to consider the possibility of religious instruction with the kids, I decided I just couldn't. I felt like I would have to ignore or justify too many things for them. What would be remaining was "love your neighbor" - this is a concept that can be found in a lot of different places beyond religion. If I would all be too confusing for them. I couldn't justify it.

I have no regrets. As time has gone on, more and more people have withdrawn from religion. This is represented by recent surveys - less than half of Americans belong to a place of worship now.

Since leaving, I've opened myself up to other avenues that has given me even better messages and music (Eastern philosophy)

If i ever were to go back, I would do it privately.

Good luck.

[Anonymous]

This Jewish temple welcomes non Jews. Look around. Ask. You aren't catholic and I don't know why on earth you would even support a group that does and continues to do things you find morally wrong. https://www.bethhillel.net/non-jewish-members.html

[Anonymous]

Well, OP -- you can see that you are a hot property here on DCUM, with Catholics trying to keep you (in their customary guilt-trippy kind of way) and people of other religions hoping to recruit you.

I'd say listen to the people who describe religions or churches that seem to meet your wants and needs, knowing that they are changeable and that you can change with them

[Anonymous]

Plenty of other churches and religions out there besides Catholicism OP. The Anglican / Episcopal church is basically Catholicism lite, with fewer problems.

[Anonymous]

OP I know exactly how you feel. I left Catholicism in my 20's and returned in my late 30's. I really struggle and feel conflicted about some of the views of the Catholic faith, however I enjoy attending mass. There is something about the Catholic mass that spiritually moves me. It gives me great peace and joy. I have tried every other Christian denomination under the sun, but I felt lost like I did not belong.

With that said, I support rights for LGBTQ community, social justice issues, I support a women's right to choose especially in cases involving rape or when the life of a mother is at stake, I support the ordination of women into the priesthood, etc. There so many issues that I support that goes against the core teachings of the Catholic faith. Also, to add fire to the flame I am a minority attending a predominately white Catholic church here in Howard County where there are racist parishioners who are so out of touch with the needs of Latinos and those of African descent. I oftentimes want to run down the aisle and scream at these people, but I sit there in silence asking myself, "Why the Hell am I here?" I have a love hate relationship with Catholicism.

I think finding a good parish is the key because they do vary. I think part of my current frustration is that I truly do not like any of the Catholic parishes in Howard County. I found a church near my house that is inclusive, welcoming, vibrant, not out of touch with the modern world, has two women pastors, a phenomenal youth program, etc., but it is a Methodist church. In my case, I am not sure if I will leave the Catholic faith or not, however in the meantime I need a break from it to clear my head. I can honestly admit that returning was a mistake for me. Also, my kids care more about their extracurricular and school activities than they do religion. The Catholic faith and religion as a whole is slowly becoming an afterthought in my household.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP I know exactly how you feel. I left Catholicism in my 20's and returned in my late 30's. I really struggle and feel conflicted about some of the views of the Catholic faith, however I enjoy attending mass. There is something about the Catholic mass that spiritually moves me. It gives me great peace and joy. I have tried every other Christian denomination under the sun, but I felt lost like I did not belong.

With that said, I support rights for LGBTQ community, social justice issues, I support a women's right to choose especially in cases involving rape or when the life of a mother is at stake, I support the ordination of women into the priesthood, etc. There so many issues that I support that goes against the core teachings of the Catholic faith. Also, to add fire to the flame I am a minority attending a predominately white Catholic church here in Howard County where there are racist parishioners who are so out of touch with the needs of Latinos and those of African descent. I oftentimes want to run down the aisle and scream at these people, but I sit there in silence asking myself, "Why the Hell am I here?" I have a love hate relationship with Catholicism.

I think finding a good parish is the key because they do vary. I think part of my current frustration is that I truly do not like any of the Catholic parishes in Howard County. I found a church near my house that is inclusive, welcoming, vibrant, not out of touch with the modern world, has two women pastors, a phenomenal youth program, etc., but it is a Methodist church. In my case, I am not sure if I will leave the Catholic faith or not, however in the meantime I need a break from it to clear my head. I can honestly admit that returning was a mistake for me. Also, my kids care more about their extracurricular and school activities than they do religion. The Catholic faith and religion as a whole is slowly becoming an afterthought in my household.

You say, "There is something about the Catholic mass that spiritually moves me." Me too -- but that doesn't mean you have to belong to a catholic church when so much else about it does not suit you at all. You can go for the show on Christmas and Easter, or when you feel like it, and work on not letting the catholic guilt get in the way.

Don't feel you have to be a "member."

[Anonymous]

OP here - again thank you for all this valuable discussion. I was expecting to be ridiculed for my line of thinking and instead I feel not like an outsider for having my thoughts. Thank you for the acceptance and helpful discussion!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Grew up Catholic, married in the church, though disagreed with some of the teachings (lack of science) of PreCana. Since then, the child abuse scandal happened, my brother got divorced, I support gay marriage, and I support a woman’s right to abortion. So I took an extended break from the religion because I disagreed with so many tenets that I felt like a fraud.

I miss mass and the contemplative nature of Sunday gathering. I did some research on finding a new religion that checks all my boxes and it’s basically Judaism and I don’t think I can convert.

I had a realization recently and am considering just going again. I don’t agree with several things but I feel like if I teach my kids why, snd I take it for what it’s worth, then I might be OK. I truly miss the feeling that I get from Sunday mass, and I don’t think there are better options.

Any thoughts?

I was you. So much happier as a “high church” (liturgically) Episcopalian. The service is incredibly similar to traditional Catholic Mass, with a much more liberal world philosophy (just avoid churches that call themselves “Anglican” in the US, as that’s the right wing splinter group here, who took their toys and went home because one state ordained a gay, partnered bishop).