Family rift - rethinking immediate family size

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t really understand what your title has to do with considering a 4th child. I don’t think bringing another child into your family should have anything to do with your relationship with your parents or your ILs.

And it certainly shouldn’t have anything to do with your parents’ politics. That fourth kid could end up a Fox News lover themselves. If your kids are all under 6, you have not yet reached the point where you realize that you have little control over who they become.

+1. I mean, maybe you should have five kids, just in case the fourth is a political apostate and you have to cut them out of your life.

People need to find some hobbies and different ways to relate to people in this world other than politics. My MIL struggled with this for a long time and recently admitted that she felt like she somehow failed as a parent because her son does not hold the same religious and political views. We had years of fraught visits where she would grill my husband and me for our views on things so she can understand where she went wrong. Once we had kids, she pretty quickly figured out that less politics = longer visits = better visits.

OP here - I have held my tongue for a long time over my father's Fox News watching BS but he has decided that he is going to be selfish and refuses to vaccinate himself rather than see his grandchildren. To me that shows us where we stand in his life. Protect your grandchildren when they cannot get vaccinated themselves or put them at risk.

I understand that’s painful and upsetting. I would just say, think about how your actions to your parents are modeling the behavior you want from your kids. If they disagree with you later on would you want them to cut you off? Maybe you can find a way to see him outdoors and masked just for the sake of letting your kids know him, know where you and they came from, and draw their own conclusions later.

I say this as someone who has forgiven much worse so that we can do that, and I know it’s not easy. But even if it’s a symbolic gathering twice a year that has value.

[Anonymous]

A rift between my brother and I made me so sad when I realized I was having a boy. It was a horrible way to feel, and I should not have imposed all the dysfunction on an innocent child, who has grown up to be one of the kindest and most thoughtful kids I know. Since then, things between my brother and I have improved, and we are close once more.

You can break patterns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Consider adopting an older child, OP. You will help a child find a loving home. You'll have the large family gatherings you want. You won't have to go through the baby phase or put your body through another pregnancy at an older age. It's win/win and you would be doing real good in the world.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t really understand what your title has to do with considering a 4th child. I don’t think bringing another child into your family should have anything to do with your relationship with your parents or your ILs.

And it certainly shouldn’t have anything to do with your parents’ politics. That fourth kid could end up a Fox News lover themselves. If your kids are all under 6, you have not yet reached the point where you realize that you have little control over who they become.

+1. I mean, maybe you should have five kids, just in case the fourth is a political apostate and you have to cut them out of your life.

People need to find some hobbies and different ways to relate to people in this world other than politics. My MIL struggled with this for a long time and recently admitted that she felt like she somehow failed as a parent because her son does not hold the same religious and political views. We had years of fraught visits where she would grill my husband and me for our views on things so she can understand where she went wrong. Once we had kids, she pretty quickly figured out that less politics = longer visits = better visits.

OP here - I have held my tongue for a long time over my father's Fox News watching BS but he has decided that he is going to be selfish and refuses to vaccinate himself rather than see his grandchildren. To me that shows us where we stand in his life. Protect your grandchildren when they cannot get vaccinated themselves or put them at risk.

Wait is this real? I feel like this is a troll. You cut your family off because your dad has autonomy over his own body and decided to not get a vaccine that’s not yet FDA approved? I’m pro-vaccine but this isn’t a black and white issue and you know that. My dad is also not getting the vaccine right now - he’s in medicine and has his reasons - and I respect his decision. Sure it’s your decision to not let your kids around non-vaccinated people but to cut them out of your life over that is truly insane and you sound like the most intolerant person in the world. I don’t think I’d want to be in your life anyway, so it’s likely your (and your kids’) loss- not theirs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t really understand what your title has to do with considering a 4th child. I don’t think bringing another child into your family should have anything to do with your relationship with your parents or your ILs.

And it certainly shouldn’t have anything to do with your parents’ politics. That fourth kid could end up a Fox News lover themselves. If your kids are all under 6, you have not yet reached the point where you realize that you have little control over who they become.

+1. I mean, maybe you should have five kids, just in case the fourth is a political apostate and you have to cut them out of your life.

People need to find some hobbies and different ways to relate to people in this world other than politics. My MIL struggled with this for a long time and recently admitted that she felt like she somehow failed as a parent because her son does not hold the same religious and political views. We had years of fraught visits where she would grill my husband and me for our views on things so she can understand where she went wrong. Once we had kids, she pretty quickly figured out that less politics = longer visits = better visits.

OP here - I have held my tongue for a long time over my father's Fox News watching BS but he has decided that he is going to be selfish and refuses to vaccinate himself rather than see his grandchildren. To me that shows us where we stand in his life. Protect your grandchildren when they cannot get vaccinated themselves or put them at risk.

Wait is this real? I feel like this is a troll. You cut your family off because your dad has autonomy over his own body and decided to not get a vaccine that’s not yet FDA approved? I’m pro-vaccine but this isn’t a black and white issue and you know that. My dad is also not getting the vaccine right now - he’s in medicine and has his reasons - and I respect his decision. Sure it’s your decision to not let your kids around non-vaccinated people but to cut them out of your life over that is truly insane and you sound like the most intolerant person in the world. I don’t think I’d want to be in your life anyway, so it’s likely your (and your kids’) loss- not theirs.

I'm guessing OP is either a troll or a complete idiot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A rift between my brother and I made me so sad when I realized I was having a boy. It was a horrible way to feel, and I should not have imposed all the dysfunction on an innocent child, who has grown up to be one of the kindest and most thoughtful kids I know. Since then, things between my brother and I have improved, and we are close once more.

You can break patterns.

Not the point of the thread, but thanks, PP, because this resonated with me. I was completely agnostic about the gender of my first child, and she turned out to be a girl. But then I really wanted another girl for our second child, and was sad when it was a boy. Why? Because I (a woman) only had a brother, and while we would say we love each other if you pressed us, we have never been close and are just fundamentally different people, despite being very close in age. Almost certainly unfairly, I felt that two of the same gender would be close in a way that me and my brother never were. But you're right, it's not appropriate to impose or assume that dynamic for my kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A rift between my brother and I made me so sad when I realized I was having a boy. It was a horrible way to feel, and I should not have imposed all the dysfunction on an innocent child, who has grown up to be one of the kindest and most thoughtful kids I know. Since then, things between my brother and I have improved, and we are close once more.

You can break patterns.

Not the point of the thread, but thanks, PP, because this resonated with me. I was completely agnostic about the gender of my first child, and she turned out to be a girl. But then I really wanted another girl for our second child, and was sad when it was a boy. Why? Because I (a woman) only had a brother, and while we would say we love each other if you pressed us, we have never been close and are just fundamentally different people, despite being very close in age. Almost certainly unfairly, I felt that two of the same gender would be close in a way that me and my brother never were. But you're right, it's not appropriate to impose or assume that dynamic for my kids.

Can confirm that having a same sex sibling does not mean you will be close or similar to them.

[Anonymous]

Let's all just agree that sibling relationships are a crap shoot and you should never have another child based on the assumption you're giving your existing child(ren) a friend. Nor should you assume that your adult children will choose to prioritize you in their adult lives. You have children because you want to parent children, not because of any what-ifs or assumptions about the future. Period.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn’t. 4 kids is a lot, but you do you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t really understand what your title has to do with considering a 4th child. I don’t think bringing another child into your family should have anything to do with your relationship with your parents or your ILs.

And it certainly shouldn’t have anything to do with your parents’ politics. That fourth kid could end up a Fox News lover themselves. If your kids are all under 6, you have not yet reached the point where you realize that you have little control over who they become.

+1. I mean, maybe you should have five kids, just in case the fourth is a political apostate and you have to cut them out of your life.

People need to find some hobbies and different ways to relate to people in this world other than politics. My MIL struggled with this for a long time and recently admitted that she felt like she somehow failed as a parent because her son does not hold the same religious and political views. We had years of fraught visits where she would grill my husband and me for our views on things so she can understand where she went wrong. Once we had kids, she pretty quickly figured out that less politics = longer visits = better visits.

OP here - I have held my tongue for a long time over my father's Fox News watching BS but he has decided that he is going to be selfish and refuses to vaccinate himself rather than see his grandchildren. To me that shows us where we stand in his life. Protect your grandchildren when they cannot get vaccinated themselves or put them at risk.

Wait is this real? I feel like this is a troll. You cut your family off because your dad has autonomy over his own body and decided to not get a vaccine that’s not yet FDA approved? I’m pro-vaccine but this isn’t a black and white issue and you know that. My dad is also not getting the vaccine right now - he’s in medicine and has his reasons - and I respect his decision. Sure it’s your decision to not let your kids around non-vaccinated people but to cut them out of your life over that is truly insane and you sound like the most intolerant person in the world. I don’t think I’d want to be in your life anyway, so it’s likely your (and your kids’) loss- not theirs.

I'm guessing OP is either a troll or a complete idiot.

Well, that's certainly generous of you.

It's a pretty strange idea that somehow formal FDA approval is a significant hurdle for people waiting. Maybe there some people that are looking for that, certainly the polls indicate so. It doesn't seem logical given the scope of use under the EUA. The FDA will review the material, but if there was a serious problem that was going to block approval, it would have been found by now. The difference between the data for the emergency use and full authorization isn't that different and unlike most other drugs approved on an emergency basis, there is an enormous sample size. To the extent that the vaccine is going to cause some massive defect only apparent years later, well the FDA approval isn't going to see that or consider it when approving the drug. Further, it seems odd that the group of people screaming about mask mandates is really holding out for the bureaucrats' stamp.

[Anonymous]

Count your blessings that your three are healthy and normal. The fourth may not be. Can you and DH handle that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t really understand what your title has to do with considering a 4th child. I don’t think bringing another child into your family should have anything to do with your relationship with your parents or your ILs.

And it certainly shouldn’t have anything to do with your parents’ politics. That fourth kid could end up a Fox News lover themselves. If your kids are all under 6, you have not yet reached the point where you realize that you have little control over who they become.

+1. I mean, maybe you should have five kids, just in case the fourth is a political apostate and you have to cut them out of your life.

People need to find some hobbies and different ways to relate to people in this world other than politics. My MIL struggled with this for a long time and recently admitted that she felt like she somehow failed as a parent because her son does not hold the same religious and political views. We had years of fraught visits where she would grill my husband and me for our views on things so she can understand where she went wrong. Once we had kids, she pretty quickly figured out that less politics = longer visits = better visits.

OP here - I have held my tongue for a long time over my father's Fox News watching BS but he has decided that he is going to be selfish and refuses to vaccinate himself rather than see his grandchildren. To me that shows us where we stand in his life. Protect your grandchildren when they cannot get vaccinated themselves or put them at risk.

Wait is this real? I feel like this is a troll. You cut your family off because your dad has autonomy over his own body and decided to not get a vaccine that’s not yet FDA approved? I’m pro-vaccine but this isn’t a black and white issue and you know that. My dad is also not getting the vaccine right now - he’s in medicine and has his reasons - and I respect his decision. Sure it’s your decision to not let your kids around non-vaccinated people but to cut them out of your life over that is truly insane and you sound like the most intolerant person in the world. I don’t think I’d want to be in your life anyway, so it’s likely your (and your kids’) loss- not theirs.

I'm guessing OP is either a troll or a complete idiot.

Well, that's certainly generous of you.

It's a pretty strange idea that somehow formal FDA approval is a significant hurdle for people waiting. Maybe there some people that are looking for that, certainly the polls indicate so. It doesn't seem logical given the scope of use under the EUA. The FDA will review the material, but if there was a serious problem that was going to block approval, it would have been found by now. The difference between the data for the emergency use and full authorization isn't that different and unlike most other drugs approved on an emergency basis, there is an enormous sample size. To the extent that the vaccine is going to cause some massive defect only apparent years later, well the FDA approval isn't going to see that or consider it when approving the drug. Further, it seems odd that the group of people screaming about mask mandates is really holding out for the bureaucrats' stamp.

Uh ma’am this is a Wendy’s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t really understand what your title has to do with considering a 4th child. I don’t think bringing another child into your family should have anything to do with your relationship with your parents or your ILs.

And it certainly shouldn’t have anything to do with your parents’ politics. That fourth kid could end up a Fox News lover themselves. If your kids are all under 6, you have not yet reached the point where you realize that you have little control over who they become.

+1. I mean, maybe you should have five kids, just in case the fourth is a political apostate and you have to cut them out of your life.

People need to find some hobbies and different ways to relate to people in this world other than politics. My MIL struggled with this for a long time and recently admitted that she felt like she somehow failed as a parent because her son does not hold the same religious and political views. We had years of fraught visits where she would grill my husband and me for our views on things so she can understand where she went wrong. Once we had kids, she pretty quickly figured out that less politics = longer visits = better visits.

OP here - I have held my tongue for a long time over my father's Fox News watching BS but he has decided that he is going to be selfish and refuses to vaccinate himself rather than see his grandchildren. To me that shows us where we stand in his life. Protect your grandchildren when they cannot get vaccinated themselves or put them at risk.

Wait is this real? I feel like this is a troll. You cut your family off because your dad has autonomy over his own body and decided to not get a vaccine that’s not yet FDA approved? I’m pro-vaccine but this isn’t a black and white issue and you know that. My dad is also not getting the vaccine right now - he’s in medicine and has his reasons - and I respect his decision. Sure it’s your decision to not let your kids around non-vaccinated people but to cut them out of your life over that is truly insane and you sound like the most intolerant person in the world. I don’t think I’d want to be in your life anyway, so it’s likely your (and your kids’) loss- not theirs.

I'm guessing OP is either a troll or a complete idiot.

Well, that's certainly generous of you.

It's a pretty strange idea that somehow formal FDA approval is a significant hurdle for people waiting. Maybe there some people that are looking for that, certainly the polls indicate so. It doesn't seem logical given the scope of use under the EUA. The FDA will review the material, but if there was a serious problem that was going to block approval, it would have been found by now. The difference between the data for the emergency use and full authorization isn't that different and unlike most other drugs approved on an emergency basis, there is an enormous sample size. To the extent that the vaccine is going to cause some massive defect only apparent years later, well the FDA approval isn't going to see that or consider it when approving the drug. Further, it seems odd that the group of people screaming about mask mandates is really holding out for the bureaucrats' stamp.

All this is 100% true, but there is a huge trust and communication gap between conservatives and the public health community that we need to overcome. The reasons may be frustrating or based on incomplete information, but it doesn't get better by writing them off as dumb, selfish, and irredeemable; or using manipulative language ("that shows us where we stand in his life"), which seems to be OP's strategy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here - we don't come from dysfunctional homes but have grown apart over the years from DHs family and my family mostly due to political beliefs. My mother in law has passed and my FIL is much older and we aren't very close with my SIL. My parents have become very Trump/Fox news loving people who just don't share common beliefs with DH and I any more. We are close with my sister and her family however.

So, what if one of your kids decides to become a republican? I guess you’ll just alienate yourself from them too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I get it. We are close to our parents, but only had one sibling each. Our siblings never married or had kids. Holidays are pretty boring and really low key. Nothing like the loud, raucous holidays I had as a child with 15 cousins (dh had the same!), tons of aunts and uncles and a full house. We miss larger holiday gatherings. It was a huge reason we had a 3rd child. I'd never demand grandkids or anything like that, but I'm hoping that out of 3 kids we will get grandkids.

Currently our house is so full and fun on holidays. Screaming kids on Christmas morning and we invite grandparents to enjoy. Still wish our kids had cousins, but we have a lot of close friends and we've tried to help that with giving them siblings. We're debating going for #4 too.

I feel you! My sister had 2 children, I had no children. So there are 2 grandchildren. I was raised by parents who were one of 4 and 9 so we had TONS of cousins and whatnot. Thanksgiving involved having to put 3 tables together AND having a kids' table in the kitchen.... and now Thanksgiving is 8 people.

I guess my sister probably wishes her kids actually had cousins but c'est la vie!