Jeff Selingo Newsletter: Class of 2022 "it's best to have a test score if it will help your case"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Standardized tests are not fair and penalize those from disadvantaged backgrounds and we all know it.

You know what they should do? Put a ton of really good, free SAT/ACT resources online so those who are economically disadvantaged can put in a ton of prep and practice.

Khan Academy already exist. Jeff Bezos should make Kaplan SAT/ACT course free for those disadvantaged.

On another note, so a non-URM kid and a URM kid, both from the same school and both set of parents are professionals, lives in same neighborhoods, will be judge differently just because of skin color?

Yes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Standardized tests are not fair and penalize those from disadvantaged backgrounds and we all know it.

You know what they should do? Put a ton of really good, free SAT/ACT resources online so those who are economically disadvantaged can put in a ton of prep and practice.

Khan Academy already exist. Jeff Bezos should make Kaplan SAT/ACT course free for those disadvantaged.

On another note, so a non-URM kid and a URM kid, both from the same school and both set of parents are professionals, lives in same neighborhoods, will be judge differently just because of skin color?

Yes

And you don’t think they get judged differently by the police, when they walk in a store, when they walk in a classroom, when it is time to refer kids to accelerated programs, etc.?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Standardized tests are not fair and penalize those from disadvantaged backgrounds and we all know it.

Then we need to look again at simply adjusting the scores for socioeconomic status. The huge problem with the current disdain for test scores is that holistic admissions seems to hurt Black kids with straight A’s and SAT scores over 1500. They usually get in some place pretty good, but they don’t have great success with the super selective schools.

I think that’s because activities are much easier for rich kids to game than grades and SAT are, and because colleges use holistic admissions more to pick out full-pay kids than to help Black kids.

there are almost Zero Black kids with 1500 SAT scores. (Less than 259 in 2006...last time they released this data) A black kid with Straight A AND 1500 can go anywhere they apply. An Asian or white kid...”What’s your hook? We get 15000 kids with these scores every year. Not good enough.”

Updated data:

The College Board’s publicly available data provides data on racial composition at 50-point score intervals. We estimate that in the entire country last year at most 2,200 black and 4,900 Latino test-takers scored above a 700. In comparison, roughly 48,000 whites and 52,800 Asians scored that high. The same absolute disparity persists among the highest scorers: 16,000 whites and 29,570 Asians scored above a 750, compared to only at most 1,000 blacks and 2,400 Latinos. (These estimates—which rely on conservative assumptions that maximize the number of high-scoring black students, are consistent with an older estimate from a 2005 paper in the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, which found that only 244 black students scored above a 750 on the math section of the SAT.)

Ibram Kendi would say that the math test is racist. Math is racism. [/ ducks]

[Anonymous]

So if my white, UMC kid has poor test scores and chooses not to submit (but a very good GPA), she’s screwed? Is test optional only for URM?

[Anonymous]

Colleges may have extended their test optional policy but with the vaccinations and everything opening up, 2022 is going to be different than 2021. UMC kids will have their chance to get their scores and college adcoms will know this. So UMC white kid should send in a score or their applications will appear weaker than the thousands who will send in a score. And yes I believe the continuation of text optional is for URMs. It plays into colleges desire to build a diverse class without taking a hit on avg SAT ACT scores which they need for rankings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Standardized tests are not fair and penalize those from disadvantaged backgrounds and we all know it.

You know what they should do? Put a ton of really good, free SAT/ACT resources online so those who are economically disadvantaged can put in a ton of prep and practice.

Khan Academy already exist. Jeff Bezos should make Kaplan SAT/ACT course free for those disadvantaged.

On another note, so a non-URM kid and a URM kid, both from the same school and both set of parents are professionals, lives in same neighborhoods, will be judge differently just because of skin color?

Yes

And you don’t think they get judged differently by the police, when they walk in a store, when they walk in a classroom, when it is time to refer kids to accelerated programs, etc.?

So they are the only ones who face disadvantages and deserve to have to do less to earn the same thing?

tell that to the Chinese American kid whose grandmother is viciously attacked on the subway and is fighting for her life in the hospital.... because of her race. Or the brown kid who's parents had their store vandalized after 9/11. Noooo sorry you have too many advantages so your pain and hardship doesn't matter, that's the breaks.

Enough of this f-ing nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Standardized tests are not fair and penalize those from disadvantaged backgrounds and we all know it.

You know what they should do? Put a ton of really good, free SAT/ACT resources online so those who are economically disadvantaged can put in a ton of prep and practice.

Khan Academy already exist. Jeff Bezos should make Kaplan SAT/ACT course free for those disadvantaged.

On another note, so a non-URM kid and a URM kid, both from the same school and both set of parents are professionals, lives in same neighborhoods, will be judge differently just because of skin color?

Yes

+2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Standardized tests are not fair and penalize those from disadvantaged backgrounds and we all know it.

Then we need to look again at simply adjusting the scores for socioeconomic status. The huge problem with the current disdain for test scores is that holistic admissions seems to hurt Black kids with straight A’s and SAT scores over 1500. They usually get in some place pretty good, but they don’t have great success with the super selective schools.

I think that’s because activities are much easier for rich kids to game than grades and SAT are, and because colleges use holistic admissions more to pick out full-pay kids than to help Black kids.

there are almost Zero Black kids with 1500 SAT scores. (Less than 259 in 2006...last time they released this data) A black kid with Straight A AND 1500 can go anywhere they apply. An Asian or white kid...”What’s your hook? We get 15000 kids with these scores every year. Not good enough.”

Go on Chance Me and admissions results sites other than this one.

I don't know what was going on in 2006, but, if you go on the sites where the applicants are, you'll see posts from Black students with unweighted GPAs over 3.8 at tough schools, decent activities (example: student body president; statewide debate prizes) and scores over 1500 every few days. Assuming that 10 percent of great applicants post their stats online, that means that there might be about 500 to 1,000 Black kids per year who, based mainly on stats, are obviously on par with great white students.

Those high-stats Black students seem to do well at getting merit aid from places like, say, the University of Rochester or Creighton, but they don't seem to have fabulous odds of getting into places like Wash. U. or Tufts. They don't seem to have any huge noticeable edge over white unhooked kids when it comes to getting into HYPSM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Standardized tests are not fair and penalize those from disadvantaged backgrounds and we all know it.

Then we need to look again at simply adjusting the scores for socioeconomic status. The huge problem with the current disdain for test scores is that holistic admissions seems to hurt Black kids with straight A’s and SAT scores over 1500. They usually get in some place pretty good, but they don’t have great success with the super selective schools.

I think that’s because activities are much easier for rich kids to game than grades and SAT are, and because colleges use holistic admissions more to pick out full-pay kids than to help Black kids.

there are almost Zero Black kids with 1500 SAT scores. (Less than 259 in 2006...last time they released this data) A black kid with Straight A AND 1500 can go anywhere they apply. An Asian or white kid...”What’s your hook? We get 15000 kids with these scores every year. Not good enough.”

Updated data:

The College Board’s publicly available data provides data on racial composition at 50-point score intervals. We estimate that in the entire country last year at most 2,200 black and 4,900 Latino test-takers scored above a 700. In comparison, roughly 48,000 whites and 52,800 Asians scored that high. The same absolute disparity persists among the highest scorers: 16,000 whites and 29,570 Asians scored above a 750, compared to only at most 1,000 blacks and 2,400 Latinos. (These estimates—which rely on conservative assumptions that maximize the number of high-scoring black students, are consistent with an older estimate from a 2005 paper in the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, which found that only 244 black students scored above a 750 on the math section of the SAT.)

Ibram Kendi would say that the math test is racist. Math is racism. [/ ducks]

You're right, math isn't racist. Despite being over 70 percent of the US population, based on the 16,000 number whites account for only 33 percent of the highest scorers. Based on population figures, whites are way underperforming. Just make sure you have purity in your analysis about college admissions. When Asian kids make up 60 percent of a class, don't start espousing holistic arguments like how much more well rounded your kid is than the high scoring Asian kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So if my white, UMC kid has poor test scores and chooses not to submit (but a very good GPA), she’s screwed? Is test optional only for URM?

Test optional is meant for people who couldn't get access to the test. This year, since pretty much everyone can sit for the test before November (these kids are already vax eligible), if you can't write an essay about your personal/family risk that prevented you from sitting for the test, then you better submit the scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Standardized tests are not fair and penalize those from disadvantaged backgrounds and we all know it.

You know what they should do? Put a ton of really good, free SAT/ACT resources online so those who are economically disadvantaged can put in a ton of prep and practice.

Khan Academy already exist. Jeff Bezos should make Kaplan SAT/ACT course free for those disadvantaged.

On another note, so a non-URM kid and a URM kid, both from the same school and both set of parents are professionals, lives in same neighborhoods, will be judge differently just because of skin color?

Yes

And you don’t think they get judged differently by the police, when they walk in a store, when they walk in a classroom, when it is time to refer kids to accelerated programs, etc.?

So they are the only ones who face disadvantages and deserve to have to do less to earn the same thing?

tell that to the Chinese American kid whose grandmother is viciously attacked on the subway and is fighting for her life in the hospital.... because of her race. Or the brown kid who's parents had their store vandalized after 9/11. Noooo sorry you have too many advantages so your pain and hardship doesn't matter, that's the breaks.

Enough of this f-ing nonsense.

Yes, enough of this nonsense trying to improve as a society by reducing racism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Standardized tests are not fair and penalize those from disadvantaged backgrounds and we all know it.

You know what they should do? Put a ton of really good, free SAT/ACT resources online so those who are economically disadvantaged can put in a ton of prep and practice.

Khan Academy already exist. Jeff Bezos should make Kaplan SAT/ACT course free for those disadvantaged.

On another note, so a non-URM kid and a URM kid, both from the same school and both set of parents are professionals, lives in same neighborhoods, will be judge differently just because of skin color?

Yes

And you don’t think they get judged differently by the police, when they walk in a store, when they walk in a classroom, when it is time to refer kids to accelerated programs, etc.?

So they are the only ones who face disadvantages and deserve to have to do less to earn the same thing?

tell that to the Chinese American kid whose grandmother is viciously attacked on the subway and is fighting for her life in the hospital.... because of her race. Or the brown kid who's parents had their store vandalized after 9/11. Noooo sorry you have too many advantages so your pain and hardship doesn't matter, that's the breaks.

Enough of this f-ing nonsense.

Yes, enough of this nonsense trying to improve as a society by reducing racism.

Yes. Enough! Unless ALL racism matters not just the ones you pick and choose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So if my white, UMC kid has poor test scores and chooses not to submit (but a very good GPA), she’s screwed? Is test optional only for URM?

Ya, pretty much, that is a red flag.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So if my white, UMC kid has poor test scores and chooses not to submit (but a very good GPA), she’s screwed? Is test optional only for URM?

Yes. They will assume she was hiding her scores.

[Anonymous]

"It's best to have a score if it will help your case. If you're White. If you are a URM, don't sweat it. If you're Asian, it's best to have a score and then add 50 points if that score."