Jeff Selingo Newsletter: Class of 2022 "it's best to have a test score if it will help your case"

[Anonymous]

One tidbit I heard on a webinar about this issue is that schools like test optional because they know only kids with high scores will submit and it then enables the school to report a higher SAT/ACT range for admitted students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s a stupid statement unless you know the test scores of the kids that didn’t Submit test scores. It’s only a valance statistical analysis if you compare like groups of people.

Shhh. Stop using logic. We’re going to reach all kinds of conclusions from differences in one variable of a multi-variable equation.

And it couldn’t possibly be that kids with high grades also tend to have high test scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Standardized tests are not fair and penalize those from disadvantaged backgrounds and we all know it.

You know what they should do? Put a ton of really good, free SAT/ACT resources online so those who are economically disadvantaged can put in a ton of prep and practice.

Khan Academy already exist. Jeff Bezos should make Kaplan SAT/ACT course free for those disadvantaged.

On another note, so a non-URM kid and a URM kid, both from the same school and both set of parents are professionals, lives in same neighborhoods, will be judge differently just because of skin color?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a stupid statement unless you know the test scores of the kids that didn’t Submit test scores. It’s only a valance statistical analysis if you compare like groups of people.

Shhh. Stop using logic. We’re going to reach all kinds of conclusions from differences in one variable of a multi-variable equation.

And it couldn’t possibly be that kids with high grades also tend to have high test scores.

Or you could read his blog. And all of the millions of words he's written in his books and articles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Standardized tests are not fair and penalize those from disadvantaged backgrounds and we all know it.

You know what they should do? Put a ton of really good, free SAT/ACT resources online so those who are economically disadvantaged can put in a ton of prep and practice.

Khan Academy already exist. Jeff Bezos should make Kaplan SAT/ACT course free for those disadvantaged.

On another note, so a non-URM kid and a URM kid, both from the same school and both set of parents are professionals, lives in same neighborhoods, will be judge differently just because of skin color?

Yeah, that post was sarcastic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s a stupid statement unless you know the test scores of the kids that didn’t Submit test scores. It’s only a valance statistical analysis if you compare like groups of people.

I agree; the groups aren’t comparable. It’s almost certain that the only kids who did very well submitted scores.

[Anonymous]

Maybe what that means is that wealthy kids tended to have test scores while poorer kids did not. Colleges need wealthier kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a stupid statement unless you know the test scores of the kids that didn’t Submit test scores. It’s only a valance statistical analysis if you compare like groups of people.

I agree; the groups aren’t comparable. It’s almost certain that the only kids who did very well submitted scores.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Standardized tests are not fair and penalize those from disadvantaged backgrounds and we all know it.

Then we need to look again at simply adjusting the scores for socioeconomic status. The huge problem with the current disdain for test scores is that holistic admissions seems to hurt Black kids with straight A’s and SAT scores over 1500. They usually get in some place pretty good, but they don’t have great success with the super selective schools.

I think that’s because activities are much easier for rich kids to game than grades and SAT are, and because colleges use holistic admissions more to pick out full-pay kids than to help Black kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One tidbit I heard on a webinar about this issue is that schools like test optional because they know only kids with high scores will submit and it then enables the school to report a higher SAT/ACT range for admitted students.

This sounds entirely plausible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Standardized tests are not fair and penalize those from disadvantaged backgrounds and we all know it.

Then we need to look again at simply adjusting the scores for socioeconomic status. The huge problem with the current disdain for test scores is that holistic admissions seems to hurt Black kids with straight A’s and SAT scores over 1500. They usually get in some place pretty good, but they don’t have great success with the super selective schools.

I think that’s because activities are much easier for rich kids to game than grades and SAT are, and because colleges use holistic admissions more to pick out full-pay kids than to help Black kids.

there are almost Zero Black kids with 1500 SAT scores. (Less than 259 in 2006...last time they released this data) A black kid with Straight A AND 1500 can go anywhere they apply. An Asian or white kid...”What’s your hook? We get 15000 kids with these scores every year. Not good enough.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Standardized tests are not fair and penalize those from disadvantaged backgrounds and we all know it.

Then we need to look again at simply adjusting the scores for socioeconomic status. The huge problem with the current disdain for test scores is that holistic admissions seems to hurt Black kids with straight A’s and SAT scores over 1500. They usually get in some place pretty good, but they don’t have great success with the super selective schools.

I think that’s because activities are much easier for rich kids to game than grades and SAT are, and because colleges use holistic admissions more to pick out full-pay kids than to help Black kids.

College Board already gives SES context.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Standardized tests are not fair and penalize those from disadvantaged backgrounds and we all know it.

Then we need to look again at simply adjusting the scores for socioeconomic status. The huge problem with the current disdain for test scores is that holistic admissions seems to hurt Black kids with straight A’s and SAT scores over 1500. They usually get in some place pretty good, but they don’t have great success with the super selective schools.

I think that’s because activities are much easier for rich kids to game than grades and SAT are, and because colleges use holistic admissions more to pick out full-pay kids than to help Black kids.

there are almost Zero Black kids with 1500 SAT scores. (Less than 259 in 2006...last time they released this data) A black kid with Straight A AND 1500 can go anywhere they apply. An Asian or white kid...”What’s your hook? We get 15000 kids with these scores every year. Not good enough.”

+1
No idea what PP is talking about. Black kids with straight A's and 1500s are generally very successful with the super selective schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One tidbit I heard on a webinar about this issue is that schools like test optional because they know only kids with high scores will submit and it then enables the school to report a higher SAT/ACT range for admitted students.

This sounds entirely plausible.

It's more than plausible. Universities have been using these to up their scores for Newsweek for years now. Supposedly their rankings don't use this anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Standardized tests are not fair and penalize those from disadvantaged backgrounds and we all know it.

Then we need to look again at simply adjusting the scores for socioeconomic status. The huge problem with the current disdain for test scores is that holistic admissions seems to hurt Black kids with straight A’s and SAT scores over 1500. They usually get in some place pretty good, but they don’t have great success with the super selective schools.

I think that’s because activities are much easier for rich kids to game than grades and SAT are, and because colleges use holistic admissions more to pick out full-pay kids than to help Black kids.

there are almost Zero Black kids with 1500 SAT scores. (Less than 259 in 2006...last time they released this data) A black kid with Straight A AND 1500 can go anywhere they apply. An Asian or white kid...”What’s your hook? We get 15000 kids with these scores every year. Not good enough.”

Updated data:

The College Board’s publicly available data provides data on racial composition at 50-point score intervals. We estimate that in the entire country last year at most 2,200 black and 4,900 Latino test-takers scored above a 700. In comparison, roughly 48,000 whites and 52,800 Asians scored that high. The same absolute disparity persists among the highest scorers: 16,000 whites and 29,570 Asians scored above a 750, compared to only at most 1,000 blacks and 2,400 Latinos. (These estimates—which rely on conservative assumptions that maximize the number of high-scoring black students, are consistent with an older estimate from a 2005 paper in the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, which found that only 244 black students scored above a 750 on the math section of the SAT.)