Brightwood Protest: MPD has lost control. They all need to be replaced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a motorcycle rider, if you choose to ride a moped like a mad person rather than stopping, including pulling out onto a cross street without looking, then yes, death is a possible and entirely likely outcome.

+1, from another rider.

And not wearing a helmet, too. Because if he had been, he’d very likely be alive.


He made a whole series of bad decisions that together resulted in him dying. Not doing even any one of them might’ve resulted in him living.

Ok, now do MPD. What could they have done differently?

Unless you're holding a seance there's not much to do with Karon's poor choices. Or are you arguing that if someone has even a minor fault then it doesn't matter?

Stop putting words in my mouth and then telling me what I said.


What I said was the deceased made a series of bad decisions that in summary caused his death. And that not doing any one of that combination of bad decisions might’ve been enough to have saved him.

Did MPD make bad decisions? I don’t know. I haven’t seen the video yet. Cops make bad decisions too. But cops had absolutely ZERO bearing on him not wearing a helmet. And that is likely what had to be the greatest contributor to his death. If the same exact scenario played out with no other factors changed, he’d be alive right now.

And the cops had nothing to do with him choosing not to wear a helmet. That’s all on him.

I don't see what words I put in your mouth.

There are plenty of motorcycle and bicycle riders who don't wear helmets. That on it's own is not the issue. Police harassment is a real thing, but you seem to have brushed it away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Serious question here. How did the scooter driver die? Did the police cruiser run him over?

That would be the police officer's fault.

Did he fall off of his scooter?

That would put the blame on the scooter driver for not wearing a helmet.

Did he hit another car?

Again, scooter driver's fault for not wearing a helmet.

It’s illegal to chase a scooter, so it’s the cops fault even if the scooter was running and crashed.

Like if a criminal is chasing you and you die, it’s the criminals fault.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Stop putting words in my mouth and then telling me what I said.


What I said was the deceased made a series of bad decisions that in summary caused his death. And that not doing any one of that combination of bad decisions might’ve been enough to have saved him.

Did MPD make bad decisions? I don’t know. I haven’t seen the video yet. Cops make bad decisions too. But cops had absolutely ZERO bearing on him not wearing a helmet. And that is likely what had to be the greatest contributor to his death. If the same exact scenario played out with no other factors changed, he’d be alive right now.

And the cops had nothing to do with him choosing not to wear a helmet. That’s all on him.

Now do the police, aka the people society pays to serve and protect us. Tell us about their series of decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand the civil unrest after the George Floyd murder and the cops firing upon protestors at Lafayette. I think it was justified. I showed up to support. But I just don't get the outrage over the guy with the 2-page long rap sheet on DC Courts who decided that, rather than accepting being stopped by police when doing dumb traffic infractions, decides instead to run into a car and kill himself. I'm white, and I've been stopped on a moped when I did dumb stuff. The cop car even followed me because I refused to pull over immediately in a bike lane and found a safe place to park to talk to the cop. My husband was pulled over on a bicycle. I guess we should just run and sue next time. I'm sure his family will sue and we'll get to foot the bill for that in addition to all the OT and destruction.

How does it help public safety when the police, in police cars, chase someone through the streets of DC for being on a moped on the sidewalk without a helmet?

Do you live in DC? Do you feel safer knowing that the police violate their own procedures on car chases on your streets?

Yes, I live in NE DC. I also don't support the no chase policy. I also don't care if the people fleeing a legitimate stop run into traffic. Do not care at all. I wish the police would do more traffic infraction enforcement.

People running from the police don't just kill themselves, they kill other people, and it's a predictable result of chases. My daughter goes to daycare a couple blocks from where this happened, and I do not want police creating dangerous situations on the sidewalks where she walks every day just because someone isn't wearing a helmet. Even I didn't care about Karon Hylton-Brown's life (which I do), I care about the safety of my community and it's a more dangerous place when officers act like they did here. Sure, Hylton-Brown could have stopped, but as a society we don't control that. We can (or at least should) be able to control the police.

You make it so simple. He was riding a moped on the sidewalk. That is dangerous. He was riding without a helmet. That is dangerous. He choose to flee the police. That is dangerous. He wasn't careful, which is why the police stopped him to prevent what happened and he flees and drives recklessly and dies. He is lucky no one else died due to his actions. What if he hit a stroller or parent with a child instead?

Is he more likely to hit a stroller when he's riding on the sidewalk or when he's being chased on the sidewalk? Is he more likely to hurt someone other than himself because he's riding without a helmet or because he's being chased. It actually is pretty simple. There's a reason the no chase policy exists, because chases are dangerous and they hurt and kill innocent people.

Right, so don't place any responsibility on him acting irresponsibility and blame the police. He killed himself with his actions.

If the criminal cop was not chasing him yes it’s his fault.

But since he was being chased it is the cops fault.

[jsteele]

According to the Chief Newsham, the officers have been suspended. They appear to have violated police regulations by not turning on their body worn cameras at the beginning of the chase and the chase does not appear to have been justified. The investigation is continuing and the officers could be fired.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious question here. How did the scooter driver die? Did the police cruiser run him over?

That would be the police officer's fault.

Did he fall off of his scooter?

That would put the blame on the scooter driver for not wearing a helmet.

Did he hit another car?

Again, scooter driver's fault for not wearing a helmet.

It’s illegal to chase a scooter, so it’s the cops fault even if the scooter was running and crashed.

Like if a criminal is chasing you and you die, it’s the criminals fault.

It might be illegal to chase a scooter, but that is not why he died. He died because he was not wearing a helmet. Period.

It is like I tell my little one about crossing the street. Just because the sign has turned walk, does not mean you can cross without looking both ways. I am not interested in suing the driver with my little ones corpse in the crosswalk. I tell them that I will put "it wasn't my fault" on their grave stone.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:According to the Chief Newsham, the officers have been suspended. They appear to have violated police regulations by not turning on their body worn cameras at the beginning of the chase and the chase does not appear to have been justified. The investigation is continuing and the officers could be fired.

All is good now. Scooter driver is alive. Police are in trouble. Grave stone can be etched "It wasn't my fault".

Or he could have worn a helmet. But it is the Police's fault!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand the civil unrest after the George Floyd murder and the cops firing upon protestors at Lafayette. I think it was justified. I showed up to support. But I just don't get the outrage over the guy with the 2-page long rap sheet on DC Courts who decided that, rather than accepting being stopped by police when doing dumb traffic infractions, decides instead to run into a car and kill himself. I'm white, and I've been stopped on a moped when I did dumb stuff. The cop car even followed me because I refused to pull over immediately in a bike lane and found a safe place to park to talk to the cop. My husband was pulled over on a bicycle. I guess we should just run and sue next time. I'm sure his family will sue and we'll get to foot the bill for that in addition to all the OT and destruction.

This was debunked. Just have to look at the docket and resulting charges/fines.

The deceased was not some super criminal as is being framed by this comment.

This is neither here nor there in terms of the crash, but to correct the PP he was under a stay-away order in Rockville over a domestic-violence incident at the time of his death. This is public record. You can look it up yourself if you like.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:According to the Chief Newsham, the officers have been suspended. They appear to have violated police regulations by not turning on their body worn cameras at the beginning of the chase and the chase does not appear to have been justified. The investigation is continuing and the officers could be fired.

All is good now. Scooter driver is alive. Police are in trouble. Grave stone can be etched "It wasn't my fault".

Or he could have worn a helmet. But it is the Police's fault!

Unfortunately, not all is good. A young man is needlessly dead. Police accountability is important and essential to gain the trust of citizens. As I said in my earlier post, real life is complicated. Not everything is binary or a simple right/wrong situation. Instead of picking a team and defending it against all comers, maybe consider that there is blame to go around and that there are steps that can be taken to prevent future needless deaths.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:According to the Chief Newsham, the officers have been suspended. They appear to have violated police regulations by not turning on their body worn cameras at the beginning of the chase and the chase does not appear to have been justified. The investigation is continuing and the officers could be fired.

All is good now. Scooter driver is alive. Police are in trouble. Grave stone can be etched "It wasn't my fault".

Or he could have worn a helmet. But it is the Police's fault!

Unfortunately, not all is good. A young man is needlessly dead. Police accountability is important and essential to gain the trust of citizens. As I said in my earlier post, real life is complicated. Not everything is binary or a simple right/wrong situation. Instead of picking a team and defending it against all comers, maybe consider that there is blame to go around and that there are steps that can be taken to prevent future needless deaths.

But you aren't saying there is "blame to go around." You said upthread that the officers gave him a "death sentence," so you clearly think there is only one side that should be blamed here.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:According to the Chief Newsham, the officers have been suspended. They appear to have violated police regulations by not turning on their body worn cameras at the beginning of the chase and the chase does not appear to have been justified. The investigation is continuing and the officers could be fired.

All is good now. Scooter driver is alive. Police are in trouble. Grave stone can be etched "It wasn't my fault".

Or he could have worn a helmet. But it is the Police's fault!

Unfortunately, not all is good. A young man is needlessly dead. Police accountability is important and essential to gain the trust of citizens. As I said in my earlier post, real life is complicated. Not everything is binary or a simple right/wrong situation. Instead of picking a team and defending it against all comers, maybe consider that there is blame to go around and that there are steps that can be taken to prevent future needless deaths.

Sounds like you're making a play for Mayor 2022

[Anonymous]

As a parent. I am not worried "about blame to go around". That is lame reasoning when your kid is in the morgue. As a parent I tell my kids to look both ways, I don't care if you are 'right' and in the crosswalk. You are also dead.

Same here. Maybe the kid is 'right'. But he is dead and that conclusion could have been avoided had he been wearing a helmet. Which the police COULD NOT force on his head. Only he could have impacted that decision...which resulted in his being in the morgue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a parent. I am not worried "about blame to go around". That is lame reasoning when your kid is in the morgue. As a parent I tell my kids to look both ways, I don't care if you are 'right' and in the crosswalk. You are also dead.

Same here. Maybe the kid is 'right'. But he is dead and that conclusion could have been avoided had he been wearing a helmet. Which the police COULD NOT force on his head. Only he could have impacted that decision...which resulted in his being in the morgue.

People have a lot of misplaced faith in the effectiveness of helmets.

Unless your argument is that the police wouldn't have chased him, in their vehicles, through city streets, if he'd been wearing a helmet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a parent. I am not worried "about blame to go around". That is lame reasoning when your kid is in the morgue. As a parent I tell my kids to look both ways, I don't care if you are 'right' and in the crosswalk. You are also dead.

Same here. Maybe the kid is 'right'. But he is dead and that conclusion could have been avoided had he been wearing a helmet. Which the police COULD NOT force on his head. Only he could have impacted that decision...which resulted in his being in the morgue.

So if a drunk driver hit your helmetless kid while biking you'd only blame your kid? Or you'd look to BOTH CONTRIBUTING FACTORS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It might be illegal to chase a scooter, but that is not why he died. He died because he was not wearing a helmet. Period.

It is like I tell my little one about crossing the street. Just because the sign has turned walk, does not mean you can cross without looking both ways. I am not interested in suing the driver with my little ones corpse in the crosswalk. I tell them that I will put "it wasn't my fault" on their grave stone.

Speaking of child traffic deaths - you know what I'm interested in? I'm interested in streets where, when a child (or non-child) crosses in a marked crosswalk with a walk signal without looking both ways, and a careless driver fails to see the child, the driver doesn't kill the child.