Brightwood Protest: MPD has lost control. They all need to be replaced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

PP here,


Didn't start as late night protest.

1. A Vigil with a mixed crowd, mostly kids & young adults and several ANC commissioners began at 6pm at 7th and Kennedy
2. The group marched to 4D at 7pm
3. Police began gassing and spraying by 7:25


Best article so far

https://wtop.com/dc/2020/10/protests-continue-in-d...amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Few additional facts:

1. Deceased's father is a military veteran ARMY.
2. MPD actively has refused to share full camera footage with the public
3. Protesters are primarily DC residents who were met with forceful riot response from the beginning. This is directly contradictory to what Bowser promoted during the 1600 BLM mural protests with national coverage.
4. Karon was never placed under arrest, nor was he told he was being detained.
5. None of the footage from ring/nest cameras shows him going faster than 15-20 mph at any point.

Better WTOP link:

https://wtop.com/dc/2020/10/protests-continue-in-dc-for-2nd-night-over-fatal-moped-chase/

[Anonymous]

I understand the civil unrest after the George Floyd murder and the cops firing upon protestors at Lafayette. I think it was justified. I showed up to support. But I just don't get the outrage over the guy with the 2-page long rap sheet on DC Courts who decided that, rather than accepting being stopped by police when doing dumb traffic infractions, decides instead to run into a car and kill himself. I'm white, and I've been stopped on a moped when I did dumb stuff. The cop car even followed me because I refused to pull over immediately in a bike lane and found a safe place to park to talk to the cop. My husband was pulled over on a bicycle. I guess we should just run and sue next time. I'm sure his family will sue and we'll get to foot the bill for that in addition to all the OT and destruction.

[Anonymous]

As a motorcycle rider, if you choose to ride a moped like a mad person rather than stopping, including pulling out onto a cross street without looking, then yes, death is a possible and entirely likely outcome.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:It is tempting in situations like this to view things simplistically, as the poster above is doing. But, in real life, things are often complicated. This is one of those cases. Karon Hylton was not out for a joyride on the sidewalk. He was trying to find his keys that he had lost earlier. Sure, using a scooter on the sidewalk may not have been appropriate, but it does not justify a death sentence either.

Interesting debate technique. Accuse a poster of trying to view things simplistically...by drawing an overly simplistic false conclusion.

Where did anybody say that a "death" sentence had been issued, or that using a scooter on a sidewalk justified a death sentence?

Perhaps and overly simplistic causal relationship here?

The first response to this thread said:

If you

- ride a moped on a sidewalk, without a helmet, and
- illegally flee a legal police stop, and
- wreck while evading police, then...

The outcome is 100% on you.

Which suggests that death is an entirely acceptable outcome in this situation. You may prefer to call that something other than a death sentence, but it would simply be a distinction without a difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a motorcycle rider, if you choose to ride a moped like a mad person rather than stopping, including pulling out onto a cross street without looking, then yes, death is a possible and entirely likely outcome.

Death is a very likely outcome of chasing someone riding a moped, especially without a helmet. The officer made a terrible (and banned by MPD policy) choice and it predictably led to a death.

[Anonymous]

And this is just a question re broader issues surrounding policing: honestly if he was not Black what is the likelihood he would have been stopped at all?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I understand the civil unrest after the George Floyd murder and the cops firing upon protestors at Lafayette. I think it was justified. I showed up to support. But I just don't get the outrage over the guy with the 2-page long rap sheet on DC Courts who decided that, rather than accepting being stopped by police when doing dumb traffic infractions, decides instead to run into a car and kill himself. I'm white, and I've been stopped on a moped when I did dumb stuff. The cop car even followed me because I refused to pull over immediately in a bike lane and found a safe place to park to talk to the cop. My husband was pulled over on a bicycle. I guess we should just run and sue next time. I'm sure his family will sue and we'll get to foot the bill for that in addition to all the OT and destruction.

How does it help public safety when the police, in police cars, chase someone through the streets of DC for being on a moped on the sidewalk without a helmet?

Do you live in DC? Do you feel safer knowing that the police violate their own procedures on car chases on your streets?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I understand the civil unrest after the George Floyd murder and the cops firing upon protestors at Lafayette. I think it was justified. I showed up to support. But I just don't get the outrage over the guy with the 2-page long rap sheet on DC Courts who decided that, rather than accepting being stopped by police when doing dumb traffic infractions, decides instead to run into a car and kill himself. I'm white, and I've been stopped on a moped when I did dumb stuff. The cop car even followed me because I refused to pull over immediately in a bike lane and found a safe place to park to talk to the cop. My husband was pulled over on a bicycle. I guess we should just run and sue next time. I'm sure his family will sue and we'll get to foot the bill for that in addition to all the OT and destruction.

I'm not ok with harassing or executing someone just because they have a 2 page long rap sheet.

And don't even try to convince me that MPD was just doing their job. They don't give a crap about our safety. They were targeting this guy for harassment.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is tempting in situations like this to view things simplistically, as the poster above is doing. But, in real life, things are often complicated. This is one of those cases. Karon Hylton was not out for a joyride on the sidewalk. He was trying to find his keys that he had lost earlier. Sure, using a scooter on the sidewalk may not have been appropriate, but it does not justify a death sentence either.

Interesting debate technique. Accuse a poster of trying to view things simplistically...by drawing an overly simplistic false conclusion.

Where did anybody say that a "death" sentence had been issued, or that using a scooter on a sidewalk justified a death sentence?

Perhaps and overly simplistic causal relationship here?

The first response to this thread said:

If you

- ride a moped on a sidewalk, without a helmet, and
- illegally flee a legal police stop, and
- wreck while evading police, then...

The outcome is 100% on you.

Which suggests that death is an entirely acceptable outcome in this situation. You may prefer to call that something other than a death sentence, but it would simply be a distinction without a difference.

It's only a distinction without a difference if you believe that language doesn't matter. I don't believe that. Using the most deliberately inflammatory language possible *does* matter. Moreover, as I pointed out earlier, the "death sentence" language suggests intent. That's both inaccurate and not helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand the civil unrest after the George Floyd murder and the cops firing upon protestors at Lafayette. I think it was justified. I showed up to support. But I just don't get the outrage over the guy with the 2-page long rap sheet on DC Courts who decided that, rather than accepting being stopped by police when doing dumb traffic infractions, decides instead to run into a car and kill himself. I'm white, and I've been stopped on a moped when I did dumb stuff. The cop car even followed me because I refused to pull over immediately in a bike lane and found a safe place to park to talk to the cop. My husband was pulled over on a bicycle. I guess we should just run and sue next time. I'm sure his family will sue and we'll get to foot the bill for that in addition to all the OT and destruction.

I'm not ok with harassing or executing someone just because they have a 2 page long rap sheet.

And don't even try to convince me that MPD was just doing their job. They don't give a crap about our safety. They were targeting this guy for harassment.

No one was harassed or executed. If you are riding a moped on the sidewalk you should risk getting pulled over. It is a legitimate stop. Indeed, I have been pulled over for being on my moped in a crosswalk going like 5mph. Do I think the cops should go after SUVs driving like mad people instead? Yes. But that was a legitimate stop too. It's your decision to run.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand the civil unrest after the George Floyd murder and the cops firing upon protestors at Lafayette. I think it was justified. I showed up to support. But I just don't get the outrage over the guy with the 2-page long rap sheet on DC Courts who decided that, rather than accepting being stopped by police when doing dumb traffic infractions, decides instead to run into a car and kill himself. I'm white, and I've been stopped on a moped when I did dumb stuff. The cop car even followed me because I refused to pull over immediately in a bike lane and found a safe place to park to talk to the cop. My husband was pulled over on a bicycle. I guess we should just run and sue next time. I'm sure his family will sue and we'll get to foot the bill for that in addition to all the OT and destruction.

How does it help public safety when the police, in police cars, chase someone through the streets of DC for being on a moped on the sidewalk without a helmet?

Do you live in DC? Do you feel safer knowing that the police violate their own procedures on car chases on your streets?

Yes, I live in NE DC. I also don't support the no chase policy. I also don't care if the people fleeing a legitimate stop run into traffic. Do not care at all. I wish the police would do more traffic infraction enforcement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a motorcycle rider, if you choose to ride a moped like a mad person rather than stopping, including pulling out onto a cross street without looking, then yes, death is a possible and entirely likely outcome.

+1, from another rider.

And not wearing a helmet, too. Because if he had been, he’d very likely be alive.


He made a whole series of bad decisions that together resulted in him dying. Not doing even any one of them might’ve resulted in him living.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a motorcycle rider, if you choose to ride a moped like a mad person rather than stopping, including pulling out onto a cross street without looking, then yes, death is a possible and entirely likely outcome.

+1, from another rider.

And not wearing a helmet, too. Because if he had been, he’d very likely be alive.


He made a whole series of bad decisions that together resulted in him dying. Not doing even any one of them might’ve resulted in him living.

Ok, now do MPD. What could they have done differently?

Unless you're holding a seance there's not much to do with Karon's poor choices. Or are you arguing that if someone has even a minor fault then it doesn't matter?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand the civil unrest after the George Floyd murder and the cops firing upon protestors at Lafayette. I think it was justified. I showed up to support. But I just don't get the outrage over the guy with the 2-page long rap sheet on DC Courts who decided that, rather than accepting being stopped by police when doing dumb traffic infractions, decides instead to run into a car and kill himself. I'm white, and I've been stopped on a moped when I did dumb stuff. The cop car even followed me because I refused to pull over immediately in a bike lane and found a safe place to park to talk to the cop. My husband was pulled over on a bicycle. I guess we should just run and sue next time. I'm sure his family will sue and we'll get to foot the bill for that in addition to all the OT and destruction.

How does it help public safety when the police, in police cars, chase someone through the streets of DC for being on a moped on the sidewalk without a helmet?

Do you live in DC? Do you feel safer knowing that the police violate their own procedures on car chases on your streets?

Yes, I live in NE DC. I also don't support the no chase policy. I also don't care if the people fleeing a legitimate stop run into traffic. Do not care at all. I wish the police would do more traffic infraction enforcement.

People running from the police don't just kill themselves, they kill other people, and it's a predictable result of chases. My daughter goes to daycare a couple blocks from where this happened, and I do not want police creating dangerous situations on the sidewalks where she walks every day just because someone isn't wearing a helmet. Even I didn't care about Karon Hylton-Brown's life (which I do), I care about the safety of my community and it's a more dangerous place when officers act like they did here. Sure, Hylton-Brown could have stopped, but as a society we don't control that. We can (or at least should) be able to control the police.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Last night was the second night of protests regarding MPD's handling of the scooter incident and the subsequent death of a Brightwood resident.

Medics report several infants and several 14-18 year olds were pepper sprayed with tear gas, response escalated by poilice at 8:45 PM.

Thoughts?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1QKYefjSb0

Here are some thoughts:

If you

- ride a moped on a sidewalk, without a helmet, and
- illegally flee a legal police stop, and
- wreck while evading police, then...

The outcome is 100% on you. There is nothing for reasonable, rational people to protest.

More

- If you bring an infant to a riot, you are negligent
- 14-18 year olds in Brightwood are hardly babies: that's the cohort committing much of the smash-and-grabs and muggings.
- People smashing squad car and HQ windows belong in jail
- Anyone launching powerful fireworks at police officers should do serious jail time

+1 You blame the police for getting things under control that the leaders should have kept in control. You don't bring babies to a protest especially with covid.