Anyone else with kids who make "hate posters"??

[Anonymous]

I wrote some really horrible things about my mom in a journal in HS. When ai went to college, it disappeared. Fast forward 20 years and my mom bought me a bunch of stuff when she cleaned out her basement to downsize. In that box was my journal. The weird thing is that my mom moved 3x in between the journal vanishing and its reappearance.

[Anonymous]

OP here. I did decide that this poster warranted addressing so I talked to my child about it. When I brought it up, she immediately apologized. She said she couldn't even remember why she was mad. (She must have drawn it days ago, but I never noticed and took a close look at it until yesterday).

I asked her about the violent images, and told her that was crossing the line. I was kind of amazed at how well she explained herself. She says that sometimes she just gets so mad, she just can't control herself. And drawing is just her way of getting all her anger out. And she says that after she finishes, she feels better and she's not mad anymore.

I told her that next time she should rip it up after she finishes instead of hanging it up. Because when I saw it, it hurt me to see those words and pictures, and we shouldn't try to hurt each other. She argued with me a bit about that part, but eventually she agreed to it.

Overall, I think she has a pretty healthy take coping with some intense feelings. In the moment of anger, she really is teetering on the edge of sanity - shaking, whispering under her breath, and historically she has said some pretty disturbing things. But it's all to try to get a rise out of us, and she has the creativity to come up with some crazy stuff. I'd never bring this up to others in real life because of the judgment.

[Anonymous]

What you’re describing is textbook ADHD. Has she been evaluated? There are ways you can address the disregulation and improve her life. You may not wish to medicate her, but therapy is immensely helpful. Address these intense feelings now because untreated teens and young adults often self medicate in destructive ways. It’s hard to live your life out of sync.

Also, you need to have conversations about what’s appropriate and what isn’t in a variety of settings. When my dc was in fifth grade, some classmates were sick and tired of a kid who made inappropriate comments all the time, but never seemed to get in trouble. The kids took matters into their own hands, in a similarly inappropriate way. They created a shared google document that listed all the ways this kid was horrible and pressured classmates to sign it. Those kids got in trouble in a far more public way. Kids don’t intuitively know the best way to handle intense feelings in a situation where they feel powerless.

[Anonymous]

I’m one of the posters who don’t find this appalling. Therapy/cbt might help her learn coping techniques that she can use when she feels herself starting to get so upset so it doesn’t go that far. You might want to post on special needs board for ideas.

[Anonymous]

When my dd was younger than yours, when she would get very angry, she would stomp her feet on the floor and pretend to be an angry giant destroying a village. Once she was calm, we’d pretend together that we were benevolent giants rebuilding everything for the villagers. Your dd seems to be missing that second step. Therapy helped my dd to seek an appropriate outlet before things go off the rails, and it helped her to take stock of her actions and make amends after outbursts, without prompting. As she’s gotten older, her outbursts have become infrequent, less intense, and much shorter in duration.

[Anonymous]

Those are private thoughts which need to go in a journal or a diary. If she has so much energy she should pick a candidate and make posters in support of them

[Anonymous]

That is really aggressive and disturbing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What you’re describing is textbook ADHD. Has she been evaluated? There are ways you can address the disregulation and improve her life. You may not wish to medicate her, but therapy is immensely helpful. Address these intense feelings now because untreated teens and young adults often self medicate in destructive ways. It’s hard to live your life out of sync.

Also, you need to have conversations about what’s appropriate and what isn’t in a variety of settings. When my dc was in fifth grade, some classmates were sick and tired of a kid who made inappropriate comments all the time, but never seemed to get in trouble. The kids took matters into their own hands, in a similarly inappropriate way. They created a shared google document that listed all the ways this kid was horrible and pressured classmates to sign it. Those kids got in trouble in a far more public way. Kids don’t intuitively know the best way to handle intense feelings in a situation where they feel powerless.

We've talked to a child therapist months ago, but haven't had her evaluated - for various reasons, including covid, and the fact that she's actually been much happier and have had less episodes since she's been at home and out of school. But based on the initial consult, the therapist thought anxiety was a possibility.

She knows very well what's appropriate in a school setting, with friends, at other people's houses. She never has any issues there, she's a model student and guest at people's houses. Transitioning into a big public school was stressful for her, as was starting a full day of academic schooling, with new rules, new expectations, new people, new everything. Those were rough years, and she was sooooo cranky after school, like a live wire. But again, glowing reviews from teachers, no issues. She held it together at school, but she just fell apart at home.

I'm sure I'll follow up with a therapist at some point in the future, but right now it seems a little silly to do so because she hardly has any issues and seems otherwise very well adjusted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When my dd was younger than yours, when she would get very angry, she would stomp her feet on the floor and pretend to be an angry giant destroying a village. Once she was calm, we’d pretend together that we were benevolent giants rebuilding everything for the villagers. Your dd seems to be missing that second step. Therapy helped my dd to seek an appropriate outlet before things go off the rails, and it helped her to take stock of her actions and make amends after outbursts, without prompting. As she’s gotten older, her outbursts have become infrequent, less intense, and much shorter in duration.

Yes, our child's outbursts have definitely lessened with age as well. I like how you handled the rebuilding portion of coming out of the anger phase. What do you think that would look like for our scenario?

I guess another PP had suggested making positive posters too. And my child actually does do that as well, once in a while. She makes cheering posters, birthday banners, etc with some pushing from me. But her natural personality is to be contrarian and independent and unique- so if anyone else is doing it, her natural inclination is to not want to do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I did decide that this poster warranted addressing so I talked to my child about it. When I brought it up, she immediately apologized. She said she couldn't even remember why she was mad. (She must have drawn it days ago, but I never noticed and took a close look at it until yesterday).

I asked her about the violent images, and told her that was crossing the line. I was kind of amazed at how well she explained herself. She says that sometimes she just gets so mad, she just can't control herself. And drawing is just her way of getting all her anger out. And she says that after she finishes, she feels better and she's not mad anymore.

I told her that next time she should rip it up after she finishes instead of hanging it up. Because when I saw it, it hurt me to see those words and pictures, and we shouldn't try to hurt each other. She argued with me a bit about that part, but eventually she agreed to it.

Overall, I think she has a pretty healthy take coping with some intense feelings. In the moment of anger, she really is teetering on the edge of sanity - shaking, whispering under her breath, and historically she has said some pretty disturbing things. But it's all to try to get a rise out of us, and she has the creativity to come up with some crazy stuff. I'd never bring this up to others in real life because of the judgment.

I'm 100% not judging you but I think these phrases have cause for alarm for a few reasons so I would urge you to seek some professional help here- you are best supported by experts here and not just winging it on your own, IMO. The edge of sanity is a telling phrase but you then immediately pivot to "but look how creative, its just to get a rise" the second part sounds like potential serious denial that this could be serious- which I get, we try to find the bright side of things for our kids but by now you should certainly seek some help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I did decide that this poster warranted addressing so I talked to my child about it. When I brought it up, she immediately apologized. She said she couldn't even remember why she was mad. (She must have drawn it days ago, but I never noticed and took a close look at it until yesterday).

I asked her about the violent images, and told her that was crossing the line. I was kind of amazed at how well she explained herself. She says that sometimes she just gets so mad, she just can't control herself. And drawing is just her way of getting all her anger out. And she says that after she finishes, she feels better and she's not mad anymore.

I told her that next time she should rip it up after she finishes instead of hanging it up. Because when I saw it, it hurt me to see those words and pictures, and we shouldn't try to hurt each other. She argued with me a bit about that part, but eventually she agreed to it.

Overall, I think she has a pretty healthy take coping with some intense feelings. In the moment of anger, she really is teetering on the edge of sanity - shaking, whispering under her breath, and historically she has said some pretty disturbing things. But it's all to try to get a rise out of us, and she has the creativity to come up with some crazy stuff. I'd never bring this up to others in real life because of the judgment.

I'm 100% not judging you but I think these phrases have cause for alarm for a few reasons so I would urge you to seek some professional help here- you are best supported by experts here and not just winging it on your own, IMO. The edge of sanity is a telling phrase but you then immediately pivot to "but look how creative, its just to get a rise" the second part sounds like potential serious denial that this could be serious- which I get, we try to find the bright side of things for our kids but by now you should certainly seek some help.

+1, this is really well put. The posters are a good first step, but there needs to be a second and third and fourth step, too. What happens when she flies into a rage at school or outside with friends or any place where she does not have immediate access to art supplies? Having an outside professional opinion will help you determine what is age appropriate and what is outside the realm of normal. When you're in the thick of it and living it every day, it's hard to be objective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What you’re describing is textbook ADHD. Has she been evaluated? There are ways you can address the disregulation and improve her life. You may not wish to medicate her, but therapy is immensely helpful. Address these intense feelings now because untreated teens and young adults often self medicate in destructive ways. It’s hard to live your life out of sync.

Also, you need to have conversations about what’s appropriate and what isn’t in a variety of settings. When my dc was in fifth grade, some classmates were sick and tired of a kid who made inappropriate comments all the time, but never seemed to get in trouble. The kids took matters into their own hands, in a similarly inappropriate way. They created a shared google document that listed all the ways this kid was horrible and pressured classmates to sign it. Those kids got in trouble in a far more public way. Kids don’t intuitively know the best way to handle intense feelings in a situation where they feel powerless.

We've talked to a child therapist months ago, but haven't had her evaluated - for various reasons, including covid, and the fact that she's actually been much happier and have had less episodes since she's been at home and out of school. But based on the initial consult, the therapist thought anxiety was a possibility.

She knows very well what's appropriate in a school setting, with friends, at other people's houses. She never has any issues there, she's a model student and guest at people's houses. Transitioning into a big public school was stressful for her, as was starting a full day of academic schooling, with new rules, new expectations, new people, new everything. Those were rough years, and she was sooooo cranky after school, like a live wire. But again, glowing reviews from teachers, no issues. She held it together at school, but she just fell apart at home.

I'm sure I'll follow up with a therapist at some point in the future, but right now it seems a little silly to do so because she hardly has any issues and seems otherwise very well adjusted.

OP,


Your daughter probably feels like the rules(and life in general) should always make perfect sense, and thus if she is having trouble following all of them, then there has to be something wrong with her or with the person making them (you, because you are her safe place). She has to realize that sometimes, rules are really shitty and you can obey/disobey/tactfully question them without making them personal.

Your DD sounds a lot like my second grader("perfectionist", very bright, teacher's favorite).

A year ago, I posted about her saying that she wished me dead because I did not let her take her red play/dress up glasses to school. She put the glasses on right before we left the house so I did not have time to explain why she could not wear them in class. Her teacher later confirmed that they were not allowed in class because they would be a distraction.

I was not too concerned because my older sister(the sweet and sensitive one in my large family) said the same thing about my mother at that age.

However, I realized that my older sister and my daughter had similar personality traits: they both hate confrontation and they follow rules to the letter. My older sister still has this "problem". She is prone to overeacting to issues because she piles up grievances in her attempt to avoid confrontation.

We got lucky (unlucky?) that an unbearable situation presented itself at school, and my DD had to stand up for herself several times. Additionally, she watched me stand up for her, and she quickly picked up on how to tackle ugly situatiions without letting them overwhelm her.

I think some therapy(more like coaching, behavior modelling and role playing) might really help your daughter. Maybe she needs help figuring out how to process emotions and to ask questions when she feels offended/insecure so that every slight/disagreement does not seem so personal.

I think you also have to reassure over and over again that the rules are meant to help guide her even though they sometimes seem impossible. And you have to be more sensitive with her. She is sensitive if she gets worked up so easily.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What you’re describing is textbook ADHD. Has she been evaluated? There are ways you can address the disregulation and improve her life. You may not wish to medicate her, but therapy is immensely helpful. Address these intense feelings now because untreated teens and young adults often self medicate in destructive ways. It’s hard to live your life out of sync.

Also, you need to have conversations about what’s appropriate and what isn’t in a variety of settings. When my dc was in fifth grade, some classmates were sick and tired of a kid who made inappropriate comments all the time, but never seemed to get in trouble. The kids took matters into their own hands, in a similarly inappropriate way. They created a shared google document that listed all the ways this kid was horrible and pressured classmates to sign it. Those kids got in trouble in a far more public way. Kids don’t intuitively know the best way to handle intense feelings in a situation where they feel powerless.

We've talked to a child therapist months ago, but haven't had her evaluated - for various reasons, including covid, and the fact that she's actually been much happier and have had less episodes since she's been at home and out of school. But based on the initial consult, the therapist thought anxiety was a possibility.

She knows very well what's appropriate in a school setting, with friends, at other people's houses. She never has any issues there, she's a model student and guest at people's houses. Transitioning into a big public school was stressful for her, as was starting a full day of academic schooling, with new rules, new expectations, new people, new everything. Those were rough years, and she was sooooo cranky after school, like a live wire. But again, glowing reviews from teachers, no issues. She held it together at school, but she just fell apart at home.

I'm sure I'll follow up with a therapist at some point in the future, but right now it seems a little silly to do so because she hardly has any issues and seems otherwise very well adjusted.

These things are also textbook ADHD. You’re not describing a child who hardly has any issues. You’re describing a child who is inattentive, emotionally disregulated, may have anxiety and is sometimes on the edge of sanity. ADHD and anxiety are co-morbid conditions; it’s not infrequent for people to have both. She needs to be evaluated in order for you to find out what you’re dealing with. It can be difficult to parse these issues. Your typical child therapist isn’t qualified to diagnose. I don’t know about right now, but pre-covid, it could take several months to a year to get in to a place like Kennedy Krieger or Childrens National. You can get in to see a psychiatrist sooner, but you’ll have more insurance issues.

The longer anxiety goes untreated, the harder it is to treat. Your child may be less anxious right now because she’s cocooned in the comfort of her own home, but one day she will have to face lots of transitions again, new rules, new expectations, a changed social dynamic. You’ve been given the gift of time to take action while your dd is in a low stress environment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I already know the majority of parents would say, yeah that's disturbing, my kid would never do something like this, this kid needs therapy. I'm already aware my kid is different.

I want to talk to the parents who have kids like this and if they cope in this manner, or if not, maybe share some other better ways of coping. I am talking about the kids who are intense, ultra sensitive, emotionally dysregulated, with the inappropriate anger responses to run of the mill events.

While it seems helpful to talk to other parents who seem to be in the same boat, OP, please get professional advice ASAP. What works with someone else's child might work with yours, or might not work, or might backfire spectacularly and cause more serious issues.

Please consider seeing someone yourself first to describe the drawings and behaviors and then work on getting your DD seen by someone. While it IS good that she channels her intense feelings into drawings and not into tantruming, lashing out, etc., please think about this: If she made similar drawings in school and they were seen by any adult there, you would be getting calls from the school counselor that very same day, and possibly being asked to come in, and getting referrals to further counseling. I say this because it's what happened when my friend's son made drawings VERY similar to what you describe (parent being killed). I'm not saying "try to avoid anyone seeing these things." I"m saying the content is at a point where it would definitely concern a counselor who would be telling you your DD very possibly needs some help beyond just home and school.

Like I said -- she has a channel for feelings and that is good, as far as it goes. It's the equivalent of punching a pillow, for some people, I guess. But she also has gone very dark for what are a LOT of years out of her short, young life so far. It is not bad or wrong for a kid to be "intense" and "ultra sensitive" but as she gets older she may need a lot more help in dealing with the emotions before she gets to the "drawings that blow up mom" stage.

If I missed your saying at some point that she is in therapy or whatever, I do apologize. You use terms like "emotionally dysregulated" and "inappropriate anger responses" which sound like maybe a professional has told you that or diagnosed her somehow but I'm not quite sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What you’re describing is textbook ADHD. Has she been evaluated? There are ways you can address the disregulation and improve her life. You may not wish to medicate her, but therapy is immensely helpful. Address these intense feelings now because untreated teens and young adults often self medicate in destructive ways. It’s hard to live your life out of sync.

Also, you need to have conversations about what’s appropriate and what isn’t in a variety of settings. When my dc was in fifth grade, some classmates were sick and tired of a kid who made inappropriate comments all the time, but never seemed to get in trouble. The kids took matters into their own hands, in a similarly inappropriate way. They created a shared google document that listed all the ways this kid was horrible and pressured classmates to sign it. Those kids got in trouble in a far more public way. Kids don’t intuitively know the best way to handle intense feelings in a situation where they feel powerless.

We've talked to a child therapist months ago, but haven't had her evaluated - for various reasons, including covid, and the fact that she's actually been much happier and have had less episodes since she's been at home and out of school. But based on the initial consult, the therapist thought anxiety was a possibility.

She knows very well what's appropriate in a school setting, with friends, at other people's houses. She never has any issues there, she's a model student and guest at people's houses. Transitioning into a big public school was stressful for her, as was starting a full day of academic schooling, with new rules, new expectations, new people, new everything. Those were rough years, and she was sooooo cranky after school, like a live wire. But again, glowing reviews from teachers, no issues. She held it together at school, but she just fell apart at home.

I'm sure I'll follow up with a therapist at some point in the future, but right now it seems a little silly to do so because she hardly has any issues and seems otherwise very well adjusted.

OP,


Your daughter probably feels like the rules(and life in general) should always make perfect sense, and thus if she is having trouble following all of them, then there has to be something wrong with her or with the person making them (you, because you are her safe place). She has to realize that sometimes, rules are really shitty and you can obey/disobey/tactfully question them without making them personal.

Your DD sounds a lot like my second grader("perfectionist", very bright, teacher's favorite).

A year ago, I posted about her saying that she wished me dead because I did not let her take her red play/dress up glasses to school. She put the glasses on right before we left the house so I did not have time to explain why she could not wear them in class. Her teacher later confirmed that they were not allowed in class because they would be a distraction.

I was not too concerned because my older sister(the sweet and sensitive one in my large family) said the same thing about my mother at that age.

However, I realized that my older sister and my daughter had similar personality traits: they both hate confrontation and they follow rules to the letter. My older sister still has this "problem". She is prone to overeacting to issues because she piles up grievances in her attempt to avoid confrontation.

We got lucky (unlucky?) that an unbearable situation presented itself at school, and my DD had to stand up for herself several times. Additionally, she watched me stand up for her, and she quickly picked up on how to tackle ugly situatiions without letting them overwhelm her.

I think some therapy(more like coaching, behavior modelling and role playing) might really help your daughter. Maybe she needs help figuring out how to process emotions and to ask questions when she feels offended/insecure so that every slight/disagreement does not seem so personal.

I think you also have to reassure over and over again that the rules are meant to help guide her even though they sometimes seem impossible. And you have to be more sensitive with her. She is sensitive if she gets worked up so easily.

Thanks for your post, it's really helpful. My daughter does sound very similar to yours. Perfectionist, rule follower (even though she complains about them), and outsized anger reactions to seemingly benign situations.

I've been actively coaching her since the age of 3 in the areas of social skills, conflict resolution, managing friendships, and emotional awareness and regulation. In a deliberate way I haven't had to do with my other children. She always fights rules, but after the initial pushback, she eventually thrives with very clear rules and expectations. And yes, I model the behaviors, and we've also done role playing.

And in response to the other PP - my daughter has never ever had any kind of episode in school, with her friends, or with other people. So even though she says she can't control it, she is obviously able to control her anger to a certain extent. She has good friendships now, and she has never even been mean to her peers other than her own siblings. She may stew over something a friend did, but she'll never say anything to them - I've been working with her to learn how to express her feelings in a respectful way to her peers. Her teachers describe her as kind.